S/O: WHY is this bash-homeschooling week here on this homeschool board?

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

OH goody. I was wondering when the Christian bashing would start. Any opportunity to get a jab in there, eh?

 

 

 

Just an aside, M, Nadia didn't write that. You quoted her as "bashing" Christians, but she didn't say that. She hasn't quite got the "quote" thing down, so it looks like she did, but she's quoting someone else and pointing out gently that she's Muslim.

 

And I don't think the originator of the quote was bashing, either. In fact, it surprises me that what is passing as "bashing" of homeschooling is being viewed as such. I simply don't understand it -- I don't follow it *at all*, and it's making me paranoid to even say ANYthing.

[SheilaZ]

Thank you. I'm not stressed about school. I love teaching the girls. I'm stressed about homeschooling as a part of our lifestyle. That's a much larger experience than just the books and teaching, and this is part of my point. Someone earlier said that homeschooling is better for the whole family, and wouldn't apologize for seeing that reality. Well, it's not reality for everyone, so again, blanket statement = problem.

 

I said that and I believe it. Let me tell you why. You might want to get a mug coffee for this post. I think I feel a ramble coming on.:001_smile:

 

I taught school before and right after my oldest was born. I got up at 6 am, and rushed to get dressed and pack up the baby so he could go to daycare and catch every known disease in the world. Then I spent the day at work worrying that he was being taken care of properly. After work I rushed to pick him up and then went home to cook, clean, and grade papers. My life was extremely stressful and the kid was only 12 weeks old. I had only a few hours a day with my son and my husband.

I can't imagine what my life would be like if I had to do all that with four children who had homework, projects, sports practice, and therapy on top of that. Plus I met those teachers. I worked with them every day. I knew them well and there weren't many of them that I would even want babysitting my children, much less teaching them day after day.

 

Sending your children to school is stressful. You are now accountable to someone else's whims. (I tutor PS highschoolers. Some of those whims are are total timewasters.) Your entire family has to follow someone else's schedule, no matter what your family needs. You have limited time with your children. And therefore even more limited time with your spouse.

 

I have four boys. Two of them have Asperger's syndrome (a form of Autsim for those unfamiliar). They have spent many years going to speech and oocupational therapy. If they were in school, they would spend all day in school and the rest of the day either hanging out in the waiting room or going to therapy.

Their father is in the Army. He was deployed for most of 2006 and 2007. And now that he's home, his schedule doesn't exactly mesh with the public school system.

 

Since we homeschool, we're able to set up our schedule to include him. Our holidays are based on his holidays and not what the public school decides. We were able to spend our full two weeks with him when he came home for R&R.

Our therapy and doctor visits are scheduled when we need them to be. The boys have school school in the van and the waiting rooms.

It helps make our days peaceful instead of harried and stressful. And the boys form a bond that I don't see in the siblings of their PS friends.

There is no bus to get up and wait for. They eat breakfast as they do math. They work at their own speed instead of pace of the average learner. I don't have to get permission to take our spring break in March because that's when my husband can take vacation instead of in April when the school system does.

 

It is better for the family. I'm happy. The boys are happy. And my dear husband is much happy since he actually gets to spend time with us.

Homeschooling is hard. I know this. It consumes your whole life. But it also gives you a freedom that other parents don't have. It gives your the freedom to put family first. It give you the freedom to make the family the center of your life and not public school calendar. That is an incredible gift.

 

At noon today, I have to pick up my wonderful husband. Then we are heading down to MIL's farm to help replace the cattle fencing. She needs it done fast before the cows escape. DH is relieved because he can help his mom instead of just worrying about her.

And the boys neer turn down a chance to go tooling around in the "gator" with Daddy.

We'll be studying electric current today as well as some carpentry skills. They might even get some driving lessons thrown in and I'm hoping to get firewood out of the day.

It's nice that we dont have to ask the principal for permission to do that or wait until after the school bell rings.

[Laura K (NC)]

When parents of public schoolers tell me they could never homeschool, I say something like what you said in your post. I thought public school was incredibly stressful... more stressful than any year of homeschool. I couldn't handle the stress. I could never put my kids in public school because of the stress. If I were ever in a position that I had to put my kids in public school, it would be a huge added stress for me.

 

We all pick our battles, and decide on the one that we'd most rather fight.

[Osmosis Mom]

Just an aside, M, Nadia didn't write that. You quoted her as "bashing" Christians, but she didn't say that. She hasn't quite got the "quote" thing down, so it looks like she did, but she's quoting someone else and pointing out gently that she's Muslim.

 

Thank you, Pam. I wrote that post in a hurry and yes, I am not a born techno-wiz....!!!

 

Heheh.

 

Back to cranky kids (ah, the joys of teaching your own off-spring!) and an escape-artist baby.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

 

Thank you, Pam. I wrote that post in a hurry and yes, I am not a born techno-wiz....!!!

 

Heheh.

 

Back to cranky kids (ah, the joys of teaching your own off-spring!) and an escape-artist baby.

 

At the end of what you snip, make sure that at the end there is this:

 

 

That will end what you're quoting and put it in a little box.

[LisaKinVA]

Sending your children to school is stressful. You are now accountable to someone else's whims. (I tutor PS highschoolers. Some of those whims are are total timewasters.) Your entire family has to follow someone else's schedule, no matter what your family needs. You have limited time with your children. And therefore even more limited time with your spouse.

 

I snipped this for brevity :D

 

But, when people ask me HOW I do it...homeschooling, I actually point out how greatful I am that I don't have to get everyone up, dressed and out the door by 7:00 or 7:30am just to get to school... worry about day care, etc. I look at them and say, "I don't know how YOU do it! Just thinking about what you have to do on a day to day basis tires me out."

 

And, my PS friends seem to really appreciate that POV. They realize that I don't think I'm somehow better than they are -- but that we're just trying to do the best we can for our family and our children, like they are.

 

This attitude has led to several of acquaintances and friends homeschooling. I didn't have to preach or shout from the rooftops. I didn't have to talk about how bad the local schools might be -- I just needed to meet them where they were, and let them know that there was an alternative, or be willing to share what I've learned through our journey.

 

FWIW, I am 100% committed to homeschooling, and so is my husband. I can't imagine our lives any other way -- but that doesn't mean I get tired, frustrated, irritated... the adjectives could go on and on here. There are days I just want to be "done." How much is enough? How much is too much? Being filled with self doubt about the choices I'm making on a day to day basis, and worried about the long-term effects those choices may have on my children. I don't view those feelings as anti-homeschooling, but part of the struggle that IS homeschooling.

 

I feel like I'm a "draconian" homeschooler... but there are days (Lord knows, there are days) my humanity gets the best of me, and I can't imagine doing this every day for the next 18 years (or more). I can hardly believe that I'll be knocking on 60 when my youngest graduates from high school!

[Ria]

I contrast this with so many posts here that ask: how little can we get away with in x subject? Are you burned out yet for this year? I'm taking a Christmas break earlier than I planned, how about you? I don't wanna work hard, and your post that you're working hard hurts my feelings! Oh, I used to homeschool, but I'm liberated now, and I would like to post periodically about how bad it was when I homeschooled. Public schools are GREAT! Co-ops STINK! Most homeschoolers I know FAIL! How much time to we have to spend each day on homeschooling? and so on, and so on.

 

 

It's exactly those posts that concern me, too. When I homeschooled, I expected a lot from myself and from my children. Homeschooling is not something you do "just for fun;" it requires committment, diligence, and lots of hard work.

 

That said, I see no reason why I can't give my observations of 15 years homeschooling/10 years teaching homeschoolers in various co-ops. If you don't like what I saw, tough. I tell it like I saw it. The co-ops were eye-opening for me, because I realized that not all homeschoolers were like me (shock and awe, I'm telling you, lol!); I honestly assumed that all homeschoolers put a premium on education and would work their behinds off to do what it takes to give their kids a fantastic education. I learned the hard way that around here, I was a very unusual homeschooler.

 

Because of life circumstances, I can no longer homeschool. I did a darn good job of homeschooling. My twins, who graduated having always been at home, got into extremely competitive colleges; one has a full scholarship. Just because I say our public school system is excellent doesn't mean I'm not advocating homeschooling. I'm just happy that I've been blessed with a school district in which academic achievement is paramount.

 

You don't have to be happy for me, but neither do you have to feel affronted at my experience or thankfulness about our school system. I don't feel liberated because my kids are in school. I miss homeschooling. I miss it a lot. Don't you think that the fact that my sons are latchkey kids part of the week bothers me? I'm doing what it takes for our family to make ends meet. I strive to stay involved in the boys' educations. But, darn it, I miss my homeschooling days.

 

Shoot. Now I think I'll go have a little cry.

 

Ria

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

It's exactly those posts that concern me, too. When I homeschooled, I expected a lot from myself and from my children. Homeschooling is not something you do "just for fun;" it requires committment, diligence, and lots of hard work.

 

That said, I see no reason why I can't give my observations of 15 years homeschooling/10 years teaching homeschoolers in various co-ops. If you don't like what I saw, tough. I tell it like I saw it. The co-ops were eye-opening for me, because I realized that not all homeschoolers were like me (shock and awe, I'm telling you, lol!); I honestly assumed that all homeschoolers put a premium on education and would work their behinds off to do what it takes to give their kids a fantastic education. I learned the hard way that around here, I was a very unusual homeschooler.

 

Because of life circumstances, I can no longer homeschool. I did a darn good job of homeschooling. My twins, who graduated having always been at home, got into extremely competitive colleges; one has a full scholarship. Just because I say our public school system is excellent doesn't mean I'm not advocating homeschooling. I'm just happy that I've been blessed with a school district in which academic achievement is paramount.

 

You don't have to be happy for me, but neither do you have to feel affronted at my experience or thankfulness about our school system. I don't feel liberated because my kids are in school. I miss homeschooling. I miss it a lot. Don't you think that the fact that my sons are latchkey kids part of the week bothers me? I'm doing what it takes for our family to make ends meet. I strive to stay involved in the boys' educations. But, darn it, I miss my homeschooling days.

 

Shoot. Now I think I'll go have a little cry.

 

Ria

 

Don't cry. I've already cried over this thread, and there's no point in both of us being reduced to tears over it.

 

Move on. We're doing what is best for our family at this time, and we did a **** good job in a dedicated way when we homeschooled just like we're doing a **** good job in a dedicated way with our kids in traditional schooling.

 

Let it go. It's not worth getting sad about.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

then you'd have a point.

 

But it's a recurring trend, and these posters have been fairly well-known here for many years.

 

I reserve the right to complain. I shouldn't have to defend homeschooling here, like I've seen posters try to do in this very thread.

 

If you have something to say to a poster, then please just say it. I'm tired of the sideways snideness. If you don't like that my kid is in public school and yet I still afterschool and yet I still post here, if you don't like that one kid is in boarding school because, yes, I could not homeschool her through high school because I'm not capable of meeting her needs, then just say it.

 

To me. Personally, call me out. Tell me how wrong *I* am, personally. And if it isn't me, then let it be well known that I feel lumped in with all those who are still here because we like being here, feel we have a little bit left to contribute to actual SUPPORTING home schoolers, and because we haven't been scolded or told to leave by the owners of the board. And when we are, you can bet we will move on.

 

Say it. To me. And to those who are fairly well-known and who are recurring in their trends. Call them out. Report them to the PTB. There's a little triangle in each post to report troublesome posters. Put it to use if you feel that you need to get someone to stop their wrong-headed anti-homeschooling postiness.

[Plucky]

If you have something to say to a poster, then please just say it. I'm tired of the sideways snideness. If you don't like that my kid is in public school and yet I still afterschool and yet I still post here, if you don't like that one kid is in boarding school because, yes, I could not homeschool her through high school because I'm not capable of meeting her needs, then just say it.

 

To me. Personally, call me out. Tell me how wrong *I* am, personally. And if it isn't me, then let it be well known that I feel lumped in with all those who are still here because we like being here, feel we have a little bit left to contribute to actual SUPPORTING home schoolers, and because we haven't been scolded or told to leave by the owners of the board. And when we are, you can bet we will move on.

 

Say it. To me. And to those who are fairly well-known and who are recurring in their trends. Call them out. Report them to the PTB. There's a little triangle in each post to report troublesome posters. Put it to use if you feel that you need to get someone to stop their wrong-headed anti-homeschooling postiness.

 

I don't understand why some of you are getting so upset. Laura would like the board to be more encouraging to homeschoolers. Homeschooling sites are the only place we have to talk unabashedly about homeschooling. Yes, lately there have been quite a few posts that are negative about homeschooling and no, I found very little redeeming qualities in the threads. They were disheartening and negative in a way that was not uplifting to me.

 

Homeschooling is hard work. This time of year some are suffering burn out and others of us are struggling to juggle the holidays and continue to homeschool. Reading about how narrow-minded, unfriendly, lazy, or incompetent homeschoolers are isn't helpful to me. It's depressing and it's not something I experience in my life. A post or two is okay but it's been constant the last couple of weeks. And yes there are posters here who don't homeschool and bring very negative vibes about homeschooling here. You are not one of them. Please don't lump yourself in with the category Laura is talking about. I don't think she meant you at all.

 

If you are so sensitive about this thread. Imagine how much fun reading a bunch of threads about how horrible homeschoolers are here. It's demoralizing, and this is a site for lifting morale, expectations, and standards.

Edited December 5, 2008 by True Blue

[Mekanamom]

Hear hear you guys, for doing what you needed to do to put your families first, and for sharing your experiences, too.

 

You have my full support. And I, for one, am glad that there are a variety of viable educational opportunities available. Just how does that negatively affect homeschooling in general? I don't think it does.

[Murphy101]

I think we're the minority. :sad:

 

Someone else mentioned the high school board as a place to go for encouragement. It's true, it generally is. High school is where homeschoolers seem to need the most encouragement. Maybe that's why it's generally positive there, and why I, with a high schooler, desire more encouragement than most.

 

I am happy to be a member of the Draconian Homeschoolers group where I've noticed inspiration in place of negativity.

 

:iagree: I can't wait until next year when I'll have a 9th grader and can join the Draconian Homeschoolers group! Those ladies in the highschool forum on this board are the ONLY folks I've met online or IRL who don't roll their eyes or shoo-shoo me for my worries about highschool and my efforts to be as diligently prepared as possible. Everywhere else if I ask what I should worry about for high school or about AP and ACTs and such - they just say, "Oh don't worry about it! It's really not that big a deal! You'll be fine. and If it doesn't work out - put them in school!" It's terribly frustrating and discouraging. Not to mention flat out unhelpful!:banghead:

 

I did a little happy dance when I found the fellow draconian moms on this board!:D

 

When parents of public schoolers tell me they could never homeschool, I say something like what you said in your post. I thought public school was incredibly stressful... more stressful than any year of homeschool.

 

I whole-heartedly agree. And I only did it for kindergarten and some of 1st grade! I can't fathom doing it with all the grades I have now!:willy_nilly:

 

I don't understand why some of you are getting so upset. Laura would like the board to be more encouraging to homeschoolers. Homeschooling sites are the only place we have to talk unabashedly about homeschooling.

 

If you are so sensitive about this thread. Imagine how much fun reading a bunch of threads about how horrible homeschoolers are here. It's demoralizing, and this is a site for lifting morale, expectations, and standards.

 

Exactly what she said.:):grouphug:

[Joanne]

I don't understand why some of you are getting so upset. Laura would like the board to be more encouraging to homeschoolers. Homeschooling sites are the only place we have to talk unabashedly about homeschooling. Yes, lately there have been quite a few posts that are negative about homeschooling and no, I found very little redeeming qualities in the threads. They were disheartening and negative in a way that was not uplifting to me.

 

I can't personally think of any particular poster where I think "they are a homeschooling failure, aren't welcome to post here, their kids should be home........"

 

When I talk about wanting the WTM parents board to be a place where an anti-school bias is accepted without "be nice", "be open", "be accomodating" or even the ironic "be graceful" comments, I am NOT saying I that parents who no longer homeschool aren't welcome.

 

I'm also not saying that less staunch, more fluid, more open/accomodating homeschoolers are not welcome.

 

I am simply saying that in many cases, the choice to homeschool IS a statement against public school. On a *homeschooling board*, this reality should be expected.

 

It's not personal to any one (or two, or three) posters at all. Indeed, I do not fit the profile of a typical idealogical homeschooler myself. HSLDA won't even cover me because I "homeschool" others. I've got other life circumstance departures that have me on the fringe here.

 

I do not wish to hurt anyone's feelings and I am not posting to anyone in particular. I come here, though, because it's *not* a general parenting board.

[Scarlett]

Yes, lately there have been quite a few posts that are negative about homeschooling and no, I found very little redeeming qualities in the threads. They were disheartening and negative in a way that was not uplifting to me.

 

A post or two is okay but it's been constant the last couple of weeks. And yes there are posters here who don't homeschool and bring very negative vibes about homeschooling here. You are not one of them. Please don't lump yourself in with the category Laura is talking about. I don't think she meant you at all.

 

If you are so sensitive about this thread. Imagine how much fun reading a bunch of threads about how horrible homeschoolers are here. It's demoralizing, and this is a site for lifting morale, expectations, and standards.

 

I guess I've been skipping those threads. I really have no idea which threads are being referred to and I wish someone would point me there so I can figure out what is going on. Really. I just feel clueless.

 

It feels like there is stuff going on behind the scenes or beneath the surface. That is what it feels like. And so maybe that is what Pam is saying....or feeling. I don't know.

 

I don't want to hear negative things about the decision to homeschool...but on the other hand, even though I believe that hs'ling is best, I certainly realize that not everyone can do it. Either because of their own abilities, their children's needs or the family's needs (financial or otherwise). And clearly Ria and Pam both fall in that category where they too would have LIKED to keep hs'ling but could not for one reason or another. Thus their continued contribution to this board is refreshing, not discouraging. They do have much to offer and I hope the OP wasn't referring to them.

[Nan in Mass]

I, too, have an excellent public school here. And I'm grateful. Someday I, too, might have to put my family's well-being before homeschooling. I wish people would read the titles of the boards - they seem to miss the afterschooler and self-education part. This isn't and never was a home-school-or-die board. It is a do-what-is-best-for-your-family board. Mothers like you, with lots of varied experience, give so much to the rest of us.

-Nan

[FloridaLisa]

The WTM was written as a guide for homeschoolers to teach their children at home in a classical manner. That does not mean others don't use it to fit their choices, but this was the original intent.

 

I think this board has morphed over time to fit the different choices each family makes, but I think most people still consider it to be primarily a homeschooling board.

 

As opposed to another popular book on classical education, TWTM specifically encouraged families to make the choice to homeschool and homeschool classically. It was a very welcome voice when at least part of the classical community held that the *best* choice was a classical school.

 

Lisa

[coffeefreak]

OK, I've had my coffee, I'm ready to post.

 

This is a forum. It is going to have all types of people and all walks of life, even if it's supported by a group of homeschoolers. If someone posts something that is not nice, I simply ignore and move on. It's as simple as that. On some occasions, I've been motivated to post a response to a sensitive thread, but I know what I'm getting myself into. If I choose to post on any thread, I have to know that there are going to be 10 people who agree with me and 10 people who don't. Do I like it when the 10 who don't come after me? NO. However, I chose to post in an online community where identities are largely anonymous;), and everyone is allowed to say whatever they want, as long as it doesn't pertain to politics;) So, that's my first point.

 

My second point is this, I enjoy the forums immensely, but there is no substitute for face to face interaction. I don't feel the offense some of you do because, I have a lot of friends who homeschool here, where I live. I think that may be the difference between those who take offense and those who don't (I know, one of those "blanket statements"). Since I have a support group around me (not a co-op, just plenty of support), I use the forums for entertainment and educational value. I could see where, if I felt isolated (like I probably will when my kids are in High School), I would want the boards to be my support group. That's a tough situation! I've often told new moms who are just starting out, find a support group. Co-op, church, play group, whatever. Find at least one other Mom who can be an encouragement and a friend to you. Someone you can pick up the phone and talk to about your day.

 

I know lots of homeschoolers (one of the blessings of living in a state where all the schools are failing), but I have 1 friend in particular who has been there through thick and thin and gone before me. She has 1 in PS now and another headed there next year (she'll still have one at home after that). I find her a wealth of wisdom especially since she's decided PS is best for her kids as they get older. When I had a Kindergartner and I was trying to do everything a 3rd grader would do:lol:, she tried to warn me, I got offended, and wouldn't you know?! She was right! I burned my poor dd out and had to take 3 months off from school because I had a child that equated it with punishment and tears! I totally ate crow and all she said was, "I didn't listen either and I did the same thing with my oldest. It's what we all do with our oldest kids." We are still friends after 6 years and we are CONSTANTLY debating the merit of this curriculum or that, what is necessary what is not. We're not offended because we have a difference of opinion. It doesn't make sense to get offended!

 

I guess what my last point is, we have to choose not to be offended. If the boards are making you stressed, angry, and hurt, it might be time for a break. I took a break from certain news stations during the election, and now I'm watching them again. If you can't ignore the threads that offend and bother you, than do a "Forum Break" and come back next week. :grouphug:

[Kris]

I guess I've been skipping those threads. I really have no idea which threads are being referred to and I wish someone would point me there so I can figure out what is going on. Really. I just feel clueless.

 

It feels like there is stuff going on behind the scenes or beneath the surface. That is what it feels like. And so maybe that is what Pam is saying....or feeling. I don't know.

 

That's what I'm wondering. One of the last big "blows" here was because of remarks in the social groups. That's the only reason I can think of -- perhaps the defensiveness is from comments that are "leaking" over to here.

 

I have not seen one. single. poster suggest that people who put their kids in public school are homeschool "failures" and neither have I seen one. single. poster suggest that they did that because homeschooling, in general, is the road to academic disaster! Frankly, I don't know of any "homeschool failures" here. I've read a lot of people questioning and struggling -- is that considered failure? If so, it's no wonder I don't get it.

 

I do know one family that I consider to be failing in their efforts to homeschool -- but they don't post here -- and that's only because they *don't* do anything. They pulled their kids from PS, made a stab at it for a few months, and quit. So the kids are home doing absolutely nothing. That's not homeschooling or unschooling or public schooling -- that's *no* schooling.

[Kay in Cal]

I think the curriculum board is designed to be just that. This is a "chat" board. If you look at the latest poll over there, it does indeed look like WTM is the most popular form of homeschooling in those who responded, although "doing what works" is number one, most mention WTM as their starting point.

[Testimony]

That said, I see no reason why I can't give my observations of 15 years homeschooling/10 years teaching homeschoolers in various co-ops. If you don't like what I saw, tough. I tell it like I saw it. The co-ops were eye-opening for me, because I realized that not all homeschoolers were like me (shock and awe, I'm telling you, lol!); I honestly assumed that all homeschoolers put a premium on education and would work their behinds off to do what it takes to give their kids a fantastic education. I learned the hard way that around here, I was a very unusual homeschooler.

 

 

 

Ria

 

Ria, I remember when I went to an academic co-op a couple of years ago and the leader of the co-op said to me the same words that you said in this post. She told me that she saw that the co-op was very eye-opening (your exact words). I want to just say that I found that this academic co-op was very rigorous to the point where it seemed as if academics was more important than anything (at least in appearance).

 

A veteran mom had told me once that there are some homeschooling moms that send there kids to co-ops and don't follow what there child is doing, as if to say since they are in co-op I am covered. There is that sentiment among some homeschoolers. "Oh, I don't have to worry about it because the co-op is doing it" attitude is not good. I found the co-ops very hard because I stayed on top of my children. I looked over my children's work. I checked up on what they were doing. I also had to teach and do other supportive work. It was mandatory. I could not do it. I realized that if I wanted to remain diligent I either had to do the co-op and nothing else or no co-op and just concentrate on my children's work. I opted out of co-ops.

 

I did not know that there was homeschool bashing happening on these boards. If I have I am sorry, but if I do not agree with someone's educational philosophy, I usually don't respond to the post.

[LNC]

I homeschool and have a child in public school (special ed class). I'll repeat what I said earlier in the thread. We are ALL responsible for our children's education. We must encourage one another in taking that responsibility seriously. Of course we will primarily support homeschooling here, but we also want to encourage excellence. Not homeschooling just for the sake of homeschooling. Is that really what WTM is about?

 

We can't look down on our fellow church members and neighbors bc they don't choose to homeschool, just as we don't want look down on us. Just bc homeschooling is a counter cultural choice still doesn't give anyone the right to be ungracious about other educational choices.

 

Ria and Pam should not be reduced to tears - this is just sad...

Edited December 5, 2008 by LNC

[nmoira]

If you have something to say to a poster, then please just say it. I'm tired of the sideways snideness.

 

[snip]

 

Say it. To me. And to those who are fairly well-known and who are recurring in their trends. Call them out. Report them to the PTB. There's a little triangle in each post to report troublesome posters. Put it to use if you feel that you need to get someone to stop their wrong-headed anti-homeschooling postiness.

The trouble with naming names is that it's more difficult to feel secure in one's judgement of others... best just to have a "them."

 

:grouphug:

[Mama Lynx]

So I wonder ... I think some of us would feel more comfortable if the common bond here was excellence in education, with an emphasis on homeschooling as the way, but not the only way, to that excellence. After all, there is much support for that concept in TWTM itself. Such a group would be accepting of the many different ways to find excellence in education, but not so accepting of, perhaps, more laid-back methods or an indifference to academic achievement.

 

While others would prefer that the common bond here be homeschooling, period. Such a group would accept varying forms of academic achievement, but would not be tolerant of institutional forms of homeschooling.

 

I think that when I first came here, I would have been in the second camp. Now I find myself in the first. Still very committed to homeschooling, but if I have to choose one or the other, I'm going to choose academic excellence (assuming the well-being of my children are not at stake in either choice).

 

Can both camps co-exist?

[Mama Lynx]

Isn't there room for both on this board? I would think that homeschoolers, in particular, would recognize that "one size fits all" isn't realistic.

 

Here I am, schooling at home and yet using the public school system to do so (in part). I probably get as tired of hearing that my choice is not "ok" as you do hearing that "whatever works for each family" is ok. :tongue_smilie:

 

(To be honest, I don't hear as much criticism of my choice as I used to, which I personally find encouraging. I can totally see how others, who don't share my opinion, might see that as alarming, though.)

 

As far as homeschooling being anti public school... Choosing not to use one of many resources available (public school) is not necessarily the same thing as being anti-public school. Sure sometimes it can be, and often with good reason. But I won't lump all public schools into the "bad" category any more than I would lump all homeschools into the "good" category. There is a good mix of both. Again, just my opinion. I don't feel that it detracts from the support of homeschoolers or homeschooling in general to express it... I am wholeheartedly in support of homeschooling in general. I am sorry if it upsets people when I voice my point of view that I support other forms of education as well... :sad:

 

The only time when I am against public school charters, or using ps classes or resources, is when people use those and still call it "homeschooling." And the only reason I have a problem with that is that I think it leaves too many doors open for lawmakers to infringe upon the rights of those who do not choose those options.

 

I wish hybrid or such charter programs did not call it homeschooling, but only for that reason. Otherwise you, the parent, know what's best for the education of your students.

[Mama Lynx]

I don't know, Beth. I go into most situations, homeschooling included, assuming that I will succeed. And I generally do.

 

IMO, a homeschooling failure is a parent/teacher who is either:

 

1) not committed to the work that homeschooling is, or

2) not up to the work that homeschooling is, or

3) does not have their child's best interests at heart, or

4) for whatever reason, needs to focus on other areas of life, or

5) is not able to provide the education that the child needs

 

AND is not honest enough, courageous enough, or self-aware enough to recognize their shortcomings and fix them, whether that means stepping up to the plate, hiring tutors, or putting the kids in school. I don't see putting kids in school as a homeschooling failure, at all. If you put your kids in school, you've recognized that for whatever reason, school is what they need. You are never a failure if you are acting in your child's best interest.

Edited December 5, 2008 by Mama Lynx

[Scarlett]

The only time when I am against public school charters, or using ps classes or resources, is when people use those and still call it "homeschooling." And the only reason I have a problem with that is that I think it leaves too many doors open for lawmakers to infringe upon the rights of those who do not choose those options.

 

I wish hybrid or such charter programs did not call it homeschooling, but only for that reason. Otherwise you, the parent, know what's best for the education of your students.

 

Really? You think how people refer to their schooling choices opens the door for lawmakers to infringe upon the rights of others? I don't think we (virtual public school users) have that much power. I think if politicians want to make changes they will...

 

I use a virtual school, provided by the state, to homeschool my child. That is not a sentence I see myself repeating everytime we mention to strangers that we homeschool. And even that sentence doesn't explain it to most people. So no, I won't be giving all the curriculum and administrative details to people in passing. For all intents and purposes that most people care about I homeschool my son.

[Mekanamom]

The only time when I am against public school charters, or using ps classes or resources, is when people use those and still call it "homeschooling." And the only reason I have a problem with that is that I think it leaves too many doors open for lawmakers to infringe upon the rights of those who do not choose those options.

 

I wish hybrid or such charter programs did not call it homeschooling, but only for that reason. Otherwise you, the parent, know what's best for the education of your students.

 

That is a good and valid point.

 

I got wrapped up in the terminology until I realized that in my state (CA) no one is a "homeschooler". In CA, students are either public school students, private school students, or tutored. There is no legal definition of homeschool.

 

Two of my kids are public students schooled at home and one is a private student schooled at home. I know the difference and I explain it to all who care to hear about the difference. The charter school I use is also very clear about the distinction.

 

In general, though- the term "homeschool", which is owned by no one in my state, accurately describes what I do with all of my students. I would not use that term at all if it was legally defined as something other than what I do.

[lionfamily1999]

Really? You think how people refer to their schooling choices opens the door for lawmakers to infringe upon the rights of others? I don't think we (virtual public school users) have that much power. I think if politicians want to make changes they will...

 

I use a virtual school, provided by the state, to homeschool my child. That is not a sentence I see myself repeating everytime we mention to strangers that we homeschool. And even that sentence doesn't explain it to most people. So no, I won't be giving all the curriculum and administrative details to people in passing. For all intents and purposes that most people care about I homeschool my son.

From the other direction, most public school and private school people would agree with you completely. IOW, if you said your child attended private school, and then they found out where they attended private school, they would call you a homeschooler as well.

 

It's funny, because I'm running into issues out here, and we haven't officially started yet, but the "unschoolers" are not especially accepting of us (classical). I expected a much more open-minded community...

[tibbyl]

My co-op/tutorial experience mirrored that of Ria's and of Testimony's friend.

 

In a certain subject, I felt that both one of my students and I needed extra, intensive instruction beyond what was available in the curriculum we were using. After deciding upon a certain vendor for the subject, we purchased the teaching materials and watched and worked on them together.

 

Still I felt that it would benefit us to enroll in a tutorial that had a class for that particular subject using the vendor materials we had chosen. I volunteered to assist the wonderfully talented teacher, who helped both my student and I immensely improve our skill in the subject.

 

The tutorial contract stated that the program was not intended as a replacement for parental involvement in teaching the subject. The contract spelled out exactly what was expected of parent as primary teacher. Also, the parent was responsible for making sure that class assignments were completed and parent-checked.

 

Besides my student, there were about a dozen in the twice a week class. Emails were sent to parents when students failed to turn in their assignments. Most of these emails went unanswered. *None* of the parents regularly and consistently signed off that they had reviewed their student's assignments. One parent, in her own words, finally "gave up" on getting her son to do the work. When a student missed a class, it was the exception rather than rule that the parent or student would ask to borrow the video that somewhat corresponded to the material covered in the missed class. And it was not because the student already owned the videos.

 

Our students supposedly were at freshman or sophomore grade levels. However, probably half of them did not have a good grasp of basic foundational knowledge needed for the subject. I doubt that almost half of them could have passed our state's proficiency exam for that subject that was required for graduation from a public high school. A couple of the students were talented in the subject area and probably did not need parental assistance although it is supposed to be an integral part of the instruction process.

 

My particular experience in this one co-op was eye-opening. Having not been immersed in the h/s'ing community, I expected strong ongoing parental involvement in education to be the rule, not the exception. Perhaps the more relaxed attitudes are more prevalent in co-op settings. I don't know. Reportedly a significant number of students took all or almost all their high school classes at this particular co-op/tutorial.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2008 by tibbyl

[Tammyla]

I've adopted a personal policy to ignore many of the negative threads, but they often sting non-the-less.

 

Maybe winter breeds distress ihdk. Thank you to the countless times someone here has encouraged me. Nothing in life is perfect, but I honestly believe in the goodness of the differences in each of us and those that keep trying day after day.

 

:grouphug:Hugs to everyone:grouphug:.

[Mama Lynx]

Really? You think how people refer to their schooling choices opens the door for lawmakers to infringe upon the rights of others? I don't think we (virtual public school users) have that much power. I think if politicians want to make changes they will...

 

Yes. And if politicians see virtual school users and think that those are "homeschoolers," then why on earth not make it the law that homeschoolers all need to use that system? Why on earth should not all homeschoolers have such ps oversight, if it works for this group?

 

If your ps gets money for your enrollment, and if they lay out your curriculum, then I consider you a public school student who schools at home. Perfectly valid educational choice. I just don't want lawmakers getting ideas.

 

But why should it bother you that that's what I consider you to be?

[Jenny in Florida]

I said that and I believe it. Let me tell you why. You might want to get a mug coffee for this post. I think I feel a ramble coming on.

 

Well, in general, I agree, at least for my family. However, I agree very strongly with the poster who was uncomfortable with "homeschooling is better" as a blanket statement.

 

I, personally, know at least two families who have not found homeschooling a good fit. In one case, it was because the child was already behind in school and turned off of anything academic and the mom simply did not know how to break through that wall. In addition, they had financial and family challenges that made it very difficult for the mom to give the daughter the attention that would have been necessary to get her back on track. And, ultimately (possibly in part as a result of the stress the entire situation put on the family), the parents separated. Just not a good outcome all the way around.

 

Obviously, since public school was where the problems began, dumping this child back there wouldn't have been a great option, either. I honestly don't know what these parents should have done, but homeschooling wasn't the right choice.

 

In the other family, they've had a lot of upheaval, financially and in other ways. They are trying to get their lives together and prepare to move forward. However, for right now, neither parent has the energy or attention to give that child a good homeschooling experience. They did homeschool last year, but the child was unhappy being "isolated" from his age peers. (He happens to be a very outgoing and social child.) And the parents had neither the time nor the money to provide him with enough social outlets. Mom is unhappy being at home. Dad is not organized or motivated enough to be a good teacher. Again, just not a good fit.

 

Now, it would be very easy to look at both of these situations and say that everything would have been fine if only the parents had done things differently. But I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that a person change his or her personality that way. There are, unfortunately, some parents who simply aren't equipped--educationally, emotionally, personality-wise--to be effective teachers. And to insist that homeschool is better for those people and their children, if only they'd do things our way, is just not accurate.

[Beth in Central TX]

I don't know, Beth. I go into most situations, homeschooling included, assuming that I will succeed. And I generally do.

 

IMO, a homeschooling failure is a parent/teacher who is either:

 

1) not committed to the work that homeschooling is, or

2) not up to the work that homeschooling is, or

3) does not have their child's best interests at heart, or

4) for whatever reason, needs to focus on other areas of life, or

5) is not able to provide the education that the child needs

 

AND is not honest enough, courageous enough, or self-aware enough to recognize their shortcomings and fix them, whether that means stepping up to the plate, hiring tutors, or putting the kids in school. I don't see putting kids in school as a homeschooling failure, at all. If you put your kids in school, you've recognized that for whatever reason, school is what they need. You are never a failure if you are acting in your child's best interest.

 

"You are never a failure if you are acting in your child's best interest." I've come to the realization that what someone else does with their child is not a judgment on what I'm doing or not doing with my child(ren). I find that it's difficult to be different or stand out regardless of my age.

 

I think that the term "homeschool failure" was so foreign to me because I define the above problems you mentioned more as parenting failures with the exception of #4. I think Jami made the same distinction in a previous post, but I can see how the terms can be interchangeable. There's a fine line here between our roles as parents and teachers. I think that's why this subject is so sensitive; it cuts right to the core of how we identify ourselves.

 

My plan is for success too, and I have a strong commitment to see it through. Only time will tell though...

[Mama Lynx]

I just wanted to mention that I don't think #5 is a parenting failure, either. Sometimes a child just has needs that we cannot provide; maybe they're learning disabled, maybe they're geniuses, maybe they want a specialized education in an area that is just not your thing.

[Jane Elliot]

Really? You think how people refer to their schooling choices opens the door for lawmakers to infringe upon the rights of others? I don't think we (virtual public school users) have that much power. I think if politicians want to make changes they will...

 

I have seen situations where virtual/charter schools have been a godsend for some families, and I'm glad the option is available. However, I have personally spoken with our legislators immediately after they emerged from a meeting with a well-known charter/virtual school. The virtual school, in an effort to validate their need for state funds, works to convince the legislators that "homeschoolers" *need* and want the help of the virtual school. The legislators were having a hard time distinguishing between "homeschoolers" who want the help of the virtual school and therefore submit themselves to the oversight of the virtual school and genuine homeschoolers who have no desire for the help or oversight. They begin to wonder if some "homeschoolers" *need* help and oversight, why not all? How people refer to their schooling choices does indeed open the door for lawmakers to infringe upon the rights of others because it leads to misunderstandings. It's important to keep the distinction so we can avoid the misunderstandings. Fine if you want to use the virtual school, but you should understand that there are situations in which blurring the distinction between homeschoolers and at-home public schoolers could contribute to confusion for legislators.

Edited December 5, 2008 by Luann in ID
spelling, oops

[Colleen]

"You are never a failure if you are acting in your child's best interest."

 

Great comment from Mama Lynx there.

 

I've come to the realization that what someone else does with their child is not a judgment on what I'm doing or not doing with my child(ren).

 

Yes. It's sometimes difficult, regardless of the subject at hand, to not personalize it, isn't it? We tend to be narcisstic that way.;)

[Colleen]

Laura would like the board to be more encouraging to homeschoolers.

 

If that's the case, a post stating just that would be sufficient. That's not what Laura said, though. She ranted. She opined what she perceives as "homeschool bashing" that's been taking place here. (A gross exaggeration, imo). She in turn "bashed" (again, imo) by implying people must be stressed, insecure, or unable to persevere. To my ears, it sounds as if she's the one who's stressed and insecure. Otherwise I can't imagine why a handful of comments about what can be realities of homeschooling would make her feel so terribly "beaten down".

 

Reading about how narrow-minded, unfriendly, lazy, or incompetent homeschoolers are isn't helpful to me. It's depressing and it's not something I experience in my life.

 

I'm sorry it's so disturbing to you. You wondered, in response to Pam's post, why she/some people are upset about this conversation. Likewise, I wonder why you'd find a few comments about incompetent homeschoolers to be depressing. Yes, incompetent people exist. Incompetent homeschoolers. Incompetent public schoolers. Incompetent plumbers. Incompetent farmers. Incompetent auto industry execs. People are flawed. Incompetence abounds. What's the big deal in acknowledging that? Rest assured that for every incompetent act and incompetent person there are a hundred others striving to do their best.

 

A post or two is okay but it's been constant the last couple of weeks.

 

Constant? I disagree.

 

If you are so sensitive about this thread. Imagine how much fun reading a bunch of threads about how horrible homeschoolers are here. It's demoralizing, and this is a site for lifting morale, expectations, and standards.

 

Pam's sensitive? Please reread what you wrote and consider your own (over)sensitivity. Goodness gracious, it reads as if your emotional state depends on the tenor of this board. I find that a bit...odd. Of course I appreciate it when I read uplifting posts here. Of course I appreciate encouragement. But that comes in all forms and if one style doesn't suit you, move on. Don't take it so personally.

[Beth in Central TX]

Yes. It's sometimes difficult, regardless of the subject at hand, to not personalize it, isn't it? We tend to be narcisstic that way.;)

 

I really struggle with taking things too personally. I realize that everything is not about me and that the world does not revolve around me, so I really can't explain why my first reaction is to consider contrary comments or actions as a personal affront. Luckily, I now realize my initial reaction is sometimes unreasonable, so I take a step back, reevaluate, and react later when I'm calmer. Unfortunately this doesn't always happen though. However, having a more rational mindset (when I can or when it's warranted) has made a big difference in how I interact with my husband. He really is on my team...

 

Take care,

Beth

[6packofun]

It's exactly those posts that concern me, too. When I homeschooled, I expected a lot from myself and from my children. Homeschooling is not something you do "just for fun;" it requires committment, diligence, and lots of hard work.

 

That said, I see no reason why I can't give my observations of 15 years homeschooling/10 years teaching homeschoolers in various co-ops. If you don't like what I saw, tough. I tell it like I saw it. The co-ops were eye-opening for me, because I realized that not all homeschoolers were like me (shock and awe, I'm telling you, lol!); I honestly assumed that all homeschoolers put a premium on education and would work their behinds off to do what it takes to give their kids a fantastic education. I learned the hard way that around here, I was a very unusual homeschooler.

 

Because of life circumstances, I can no longer homeschool. I did a darn good job of homeschooling. My twins, who graduated having always been at home, got into extremely competitive colleges; one has a full scholarship. Just because I say our public school system is excellent doesn't mean I'm not advocating homeschooling. I'm just happy that I've been blessed with a school district in which academic achievement is paramount.

 

You don't have to be happy for me, but neither do you have to feel affronted at my experience or thankfulness about our school system. I don't feel liberated because my kids are in school. I miss homeschooling. I miss it a lot. Don't you think that the fact that my sons are latchkey kids part of the week bothers me? I'm doing what it takes for our family to make ends meet. I strive to stay involved in the boys' educations. But, darn it, I miss my homeschooling days.

 

Shoot. Now I think I'll go have a little cry.

 

Ria

 

Ria, I hope this comes out right! A couple years ago, you wrote a BIG post on just this topic, that if excellence in our children's education is one of our priorities, then we absolutely cannot just try to get by on the least effort and work and challenge--that goes for EVERY member of the family, mom & dad FIRST!

 

That post kicked my fat butt into gear. I've always been a strong advocate of homeschooling for families whenever it's within the realm of possibility for them to take it on and yet I was falling into a trap and listening to the, well...frankly, coddling of other homeschooling moms who were telling me every time I vented about being stressed (which was far too often--the complaining, I mean!) that I should take MORE time off and DO less and even SPEND less, regardless of what I really *envisioned* and prayed for to use in teaching my kids...and that in the end my kids would be better off no matter how much I loosened up.

 

Well, for my family at least, that was a destructive lie. Well-meant, and maybe with some truth if it weren't the pat answer given every single time I was bummed or frustrated or tired or maybe being a dopey parent.

 

But I never ever forget that post--and wish I'd printed it out--because it brought me back to what in the heck I'm doing this for in the first place. Not *just* excellence, of course, and not in the way that you or anyone else might do it, but finding excellence for OUR family and purusing that every day. Not without breaks and breathers, but focused and in some ways furious because I've got one chance here! Many little chances throughout the whole marathon, sure, but now I understand that I was trying to do it with the wrong SHOES. LOL Or at least without a big meal of carbs beforehand. ;)

 

Anyhow, thanks for that. :)

[Scarlett]

Yes. And if politicians see virtual school users and think that those are "homeschoolers," then why on earth not make it the law that homeschoolers all need to use that system? Why on earth should not all homeschoolers have such ps oversight, if it works for this group?

 

If your ps gets money for your enrollment, and if they lay out your curriculum, then I consider you a public school student who schools at home. Perfectly valid educational choice. I just don't want lawmakers getting ideas.

 

But why should it bother you that that's what I consider you to be?

 

I don't really know. I don't really care what you think of me. Really. Just like it doesn't really matter that my VA refers to me as 'the learning coach'---they can call me Shrek if they want--I'm still my child's teacher--so it doesn't really matter what they call me...it just bugs me a bit.

 

As far as the VA 'laying out the curriculum'..well, that amounts to them paying for K12 which is a high quality, respected curiculum, that *I* am teaching to him in *our* home.

 

I could care less about the politics of it all....so I guess that is why I have difficulty seeing why you care if I call myself a homeschooler.

[Laura K (NC)]

deleted

Edited December 5, 2008 by Laura K (NC)

[Laura K (NC)]

I've said multiple times that this is a trend. And I said at least once in this thread that this trends resurfaces every now and then. If you choose to interpret my thread as a personal attack, then I'm sorry, but you're interpreting it incorrectly.

 

But as I said, I reserve the right to complain. After all, those who bash homeschooling itself (and that's a generic "those," not a Pam "those") have the right to complain, too. And I reserve the right not to take posts personally, even when they diss my personal education choices. On a homeschool board. You have that right as well.

 

If I felt like speaking up in front of all my IRL friends who put their kids in public school and telling all the bad experiences I've had or heard about in public school, I'd be surprised if they took it well. I generally keep my thoughts to myself around committed public schoolers. I would have a right to speak up against public schooling to them, I guess, but it would be a choice I made that would stir the pot and alienate some people. I'd sort of expect some kind of response, at any rate, even face-to-face. And they'd have the right to defend their own school choices. Either that, or avoid me in the future because I was being provocative.

 

Now reverse that situation.

 

I'm not afraid of saying, "Pam, you're wrong," if I felt that you were wrong and needed to be singled out. That's not the case here. I don't follow your posts and I didn't realize you weren't homeschooling. If you're supporting homeschoolers, fine. If you're critical of homeschoolers or homeschooling here, then I wish you would not be. I don't think that's too much to ask, though so many here think it IS precisely too much to ask. And that's a generic "so many," not a Pam "so many.":rolleyes:

[Jane Elliot]

;-)

Edited December 5, 2008 by Luann in ID

[Murphy101]

That's just really sad.

 

Agreed.

And underscores exactly why people get upset over the incorrect use of the term homeschooling.

People who don't care about the politics have the potential to royally messing things up for those of us that do care rather ardently about it!

:leaving:

[Plucky]

 

If that's the case, a post stating just that would be sufficient. That's not what Laura said, though. She ranted. She opined what she perceives as "homeschool bashing" that's been taking place here. (A gross exaggeration, imo). She in turn "bashed" (again, imo) by implying people must be stressed, insecure, or unable to persevere. To my ears, it sounds as if she's the one who's stressed and insecure. Otherwise I can't imagine why a handful of comments about what can be realities of homeschooling would make her feel so terribly "beaten down".

 

 

 

I'm sorry it's so disturbing to you. You wondered, in response to Pam's post, why she/some people are upset about this conversation. Likewise, I wonder why you'd find a few comments about incompetent homeschoolers to be depressing. Yes, incompetent people exist. Incompetent homeschoolers. Incompetent public schoolers. Incompetent plumbers. Incompetent farmers. Incompetent auto industry execs. People are flawed. Incompetence abounds. What's the big deal in acknowledging that? Rest assured that for every incompetent act and incompetent person there are a hundred others striving to do their best.

 

 

 

Constant? I disagree.

 

 

 

Pam's sensitive? Please reread what you wrote and consider your own (over)sensitivity. Goodness gracious, it reads as if your emotional state depends on the tenor of this board. I find that a bit...odd. Of course I appreciate it when I read uplifting posts here. Of course I appreciate encouragement. But that comes in all forms and if one style doesn't suit you, move on. Don't take it so personally.

 

Colleen, I disagree with you and I'm not the one crying over a message board so please don't call me oversensitive. I know you generally lack compassion except when you are having one of your periodic breakdowns. I really don't need any advice from you. I'm really not interested. Cheers.

[Ria]

Deleted.

Edited December 5, 2008 by Ria

[Plucky]

My goodness. That speaks volumes, Elaine. Volumes.

 

Ria

 

It speaks that some people ARE being oversensitive and not really listening to what Laura was posting about. Instead you are making it about yourself. I think that speaks volumes.

[nmoira]

 

snip

True colours. Edited December 5, 2008 by nmoira
Quoted poster deleted post.

[Plucky]

True colours.

 

Whatever, nmoira. You are pretty much one that only posts in attack mode. I find it humorous that you of all people are casting judgement. LOL

[tibbyl]

Perhaps the focus should be on electing legislators smart enough or educable enough to understand that public funds = public education, regardless of where the education takes place.

 

The true onus for confusing VPS'ers with hs'ers lies with the legislators, not with the parents who generically, not legally, use the term "homeschooling" to describe teaching their children at home with state provided quality curriculae that many independent homeschoolers use.