If you take CC classes in high school, do you then apply to college as a transfer student or a freshman?

[EKT]

My oldest is going into 7th grade this coming year, so I'm just starting to look into what I'll need to know to homeschool high school. (It's a lot to think about and figure out. I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed, and I'm still two years out!) One question that's popped up for me: If a student takes community college classes in high school (I guess these would be dual enrollment courses?), do you then apply to college as a regular incoming freshman or as a transfer student? (I recall hearing a million years ago that as soon as you take a college course, you become a transfer student, but I'm not sure if that's accurate?) Does having x number of community college credits make you a transfer student? I guess I'm wondering: at what point do you shift from being a potential incoming freshman to being a transfer student? Where that line is drawn? Does it "matter"? 

[Kassia]

You would apply as a freshman.  I'm not sure what happens if you earn your associate's degree, though.  Dd will have 85 DE credits when she graduates from high school and one of her brothers had over 60.  No issues as far as freshman scholarships or admissions.  

ETA:  Any college classes taken after graduation do not count as DE.  So, if your child takes any classes the summer after graduation those would not be considered DE.  

Edited July 28, 2019 by Kassia

[maize]

Dual enrollment classes do not usually affect freshman application status, most colleges exempt college credits earned before high school graduation from the credit hour limits that would make a student apply as a transfer rather than an entering freshman. There may be occasional exceptions though so always check the specific policies of any college your child applies to.

[maize]

As for whether it matters, it can--most often when applying for scholarships as the best scholarships are often only available to new freshman applicants. In some cases acceptance rates may also be better for freshman applicants than for transfer students.

There are no universal policies adopted by all colleges when it comes to admissions; if you already have some schools in mind go ahead and look up their specific policies or call the admissions office with your questions. 

[EKT]

1 minute ago, Kassia said:

You would apply as a freshman.  I'm not sure what happens if you earn your associate's degree, though.  Dd will have 85 DE credits when she graduates from high school and one of her brothers had over 60.  No issues as far as freshman scholarships or admissions.  

Okay, that makes sense. My question then is...if your daughter will have 85 DE credits and she applies to college as a freshman, I can see that she would get accepted as part of the freshman class, but...won't she technically have enough credits to be at least a sophomore? (Does this just mean she's just lucky and she'll finish a bachelor's degree in three years? Or, does it affect her in any other ways?) I guess it just seems weird to be accepted as a freshman, but not really be a freshman. (Thank you for sharing; just totally curious!) 

[EKT]

Just now, maize said:

As for whether it matters, it can--most often when applying for scholarships as the best scholarships are often only available to new freshman applicants. In some cases acceptance rates may also be better for freshman applicants than for transfer students.

There are no universal policies adopted by all colleges when it comes to admissions; if you already have some schools in mind go ahead and look up their specific policies or call the admissions office with your questions. 

Ah! The scholarship thing is important to know--thanks!! I hadn't thought about that part of it. (It's interesting to think about whether it would be cheaper to go to CC after high school for an associate's degree first, then transfer to a 4-year university, OR to plan on going straight to a 4-year university, but apply for a billion scholarships as a freshman.) 

[Matryoshka]

It depends on what you want to do - either path is possible.  

Many (most?) homeschoolers apply as freshmen because there are more scholarships available for freshmen than for transfers.  You can also still apply as a freshman even if you have an AA, but sometimes there's a tricky bit about timing for high school/AA graduations to make sure you're still eligible.  One of my older dds, and a bunch of my friends' kids did it that way.

My youngest is applying as a transfer, because she wanted to take advantage of the state university Transfer program.  With that program, she gets guaranteed admission to any state university, including the flagship, which has become very hard to get into, especially for in-state students.  By taking different DE courses, she also figured out what she wanted to major in, and by getting a Business AS was, through this program, also guaranteed admission into the even harder-to-get-into Business School at the flagship.  Our flagship also gives out pretty much nothing in merit aid to in-state students, so she wasn't passing up any freshman scholarships, and the one transfer scholarship available, while not big, is also automatic through this program.  Everyone thinks she must be some stellar student to be entering college at 18 as a junior in this program, but honestly with the transfer agreement, you only have to have a 3.0 average, much lower than she would have needed otherwise (her GPA was higher than the minimum, but she was not an all-A student by far).

None of that would have applied if she had wanted to go to a private or out-of-state university, and then it would have made more sense for her to apply as a freshman.  Look at your own state programs - they're very different from state to state.  And part of the fine print of our state transfer program is that she had to take her last 12 credits as a college student, not DE, so we had to graduate her a semester earlier than we'd planned (in Dec). Good thing we figured that out in time!

Edited July 28, 2019 by Matryoshka

[EKS]

It depends on the college.  Some don't care how many college credits you accrue while in high school.  At those schools, you will apply as a freshman.  Others have a limit over which you become a transfer student.  For others when you apply matters.  At these schools, if you take a gap year after accruing college credits in high school, you apply as a transfer student, but without the gap year, you're a freshman.  I'm sure there are other possibilities as well.

 

[EKT]

14 minutes ago, Kassia said:

 

ETA:  Any college classes taken after graduation do not count as DE.  So, if your child takes any classes the summer after graduation those would not be considered DE.  

This makes sense - thanks!

[EKT]

2 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

It depends on what you want to do - either path is possible.  

Many (most?) homeschoolers apply as freshmen because there are more scholarships available for freshmen than for transfers.  You can also still apply as a freshman even if you have an AA, but sometimes there's a tricky bit about timing for high school/AA graduations to make sure you're still eligible.  One of my older dds, and a bunch of my friends' kids did it that way.

My youngest is applying as a transfer, because she wanted to take advantage of the state university Transfer program.  With that program, she gets guaranteed admission to any state university, including the flagship, which has become very hard to get into, especially for in-state students.  By taking different DE courses, she also figured out what she wanted to major in, and by getting a Business AS was, through this program, also guaranteed admission into the even harder-to-get-into Business School at the flagship.  Our flagship also gives out pretty much nothing in merit aid to in-state students, so she wasn't passing up any freshman scholarships, and the one transfer scholarship available, while not big, is also automatic through this program.  Everyone thinks she must be some stellar student to be entering college at 18 as a junior in this program, but honestly with the transfer agreement, you only have to have a 3.0 average, much lower than she would have needed otherwise (her GPA was higher than the minimum, but she was not an all-A student by far).

None of that would have applied if she had wanted to go to a private or out-of-state university, and then it would have made more sense for her to apply as a freshman.  Look at your own state programs - they're very different from state to state.

This is so fascinating!! So it looks like she earned an associate's while still in high school? (You can earn an associates with DE credits?) 

But what you describe is the sort of thing DH and I are thinking about - it seems easier/smarter/beneficial in many cases to get an associate's first, then transfer to the state school. (Especially, because like you say...your daughter got to figure out her major along the way.)  

[Kassia]

12 minutes ago, EKT said:

Okay, that makes sense. My question then is...if your daughter will have 85 DE credits and she applies to college as a freshman, I can see that she would get accepted as part of the freshman class, but...won't she technically have enough credits to be at least a sophomore? (Does this just mean she's just lucky and she'll finish a bachelor's degree in three years? Or, does it affect her in any other ways?) I guess it just seems weird to be accepted as a freshman, but not really be a freshman. (Thank you for sharing; just totally curious!) 

 

When my ds entered college with over 60 DE credits he was considered a first year junior.  So, he was admitted as a freshman and received freshman scholarships and had to participate in freshman orientation classes but he was given junior level status for class registration, which was really nice.  

Dd, with 85 credits, will enter as a first year junior.  So, once again, she will be in freshman housing, receive freshman scholarships, take the freshman orientation classes, but I think she'll also get to schedule as a junior (I'm pretty sure).  She can graduate in three years if she chooses to do so.  

[Kassia]

Just now, EKT said:

 (You can earn an associates with DE credits?) 

 

 

Yes!  

[EKT]

4 minutes ago, Kassia said:

 

When my ds entered college with over 60 DE credits he was considered a first year junior.  So, he was admitted as a freshman and received freshman scholarships and had to participate in freshman orientation classes but he was given junior level status for class registration, which was really nice.  

Dd, with 85 credits, will enter as a first year junior.  So, once again, she will be in freshman housing, receive freshman scholarships, take the freshman orientation classes, but I think she'll also get to schedule as a junior (I'm pretty sure).  She can graduate in three years if she chooses to do so.  

Wow, that is awesome! Congrats to you and your kids! I'm fascinated by these alternative ways to navigate college. 

[Melissa B]

25 minutes ago, EKT said:

Okay, that makes sense. My question then is...if your daughter will have 85 DE credits and she applies to college as a freshman, I can see that she would get accepted as part of the freshman class, but...won't she technically have enough credits to be at least a sophomore? (Does this just mean she's just lucky and she'll finish a bachelor's degree in three years? Or, does it affect her in any other ways?) I guess it just seems weird to be accepted as a freshman, but not really be a freshman. (Thank you for sharing; just totally curious!) 

Both my daughters were accepted into their universities as freshmen even with an AA and many, many credits, but when they declared and were accepted into their specific majors (still before classes started their freshman year) the specific college would list them based on how many credits they had transferred. I think they were both listed as sophomore + because they had enough credits in their majors to be juniors but were missing a couple of classes usually taken by sophomores. We have excellent state scholarships here. My eldest chose to use all four years of her scholarship rather than graduate in one or two years. My second is going to use three years of her scholarship to get a few minors, but still graduate a year early.

[Lori D.]

51 minutes ago, Kassia said:

ETA:  Any college classes taken after graduation do not count as DE.  So, if your child takes any classes the summer after graduation those would not be considered DE.  

Also very important to understand if wanting the option of freshman eligibility: ANY college course taken after high school graduation automatically removes freshman eligibility, and the student is accepted only as a transfer student. Some universities hold this policy for courses that were taken for *audit* as well as as those taken for *credit*.

[EKT]

8 minutes ago, Melissa B said:

Both my daughters were accepted into their universities as freshmen even with an AA and many, many credits, but when they declared and were accepted into their specific majors (still before classes started their freshman year) the specific college would list them based on how many credits they had transferred. I think they were both listed as sophomore + because they had enough credits in their majors to be juniors but were missing a couple of classes usually taken by sophomores. We have excellent state scholarships here. My eldest chose to use all four years of her scholarship rather than graduate in one or two years. My second is going to use three years of her scholarship to get a few minors, but still graduate a year early.

This is amazing! So interesting. (And it makes sense that the specific majors would require particular classes, etc.) Well thank you for sharing; I love learning about this stuff. Congrats to your children!

[EKT]

1 minute ago, Lori D. said:

Also very important to understand if wanting the option of freshman eligibility: ANY college course taken after high school graduation automatically removes freshman eligibility, and the student is accepted only as a transfer student. Some universities hold this policy for courses that were taken for *audit* as well as as those taken for *credit*.

Thank you! This is so helpful. That was my confusion in my OP (it had always been my understanding that once you take a college course, you are a transfer student!), but now after reading these responses, my understanding is that DE credits are typically treated differently from any college classes taken post high school graduation. 

[Lori D.]

1 hour ago, EKS said:

It depends on the college.  Some don't care how many college credits you accrue while in high school.  At those schools, you will apply as a freshman.  Others have a limit over which you become a transfer student.  For others when you apply matters.  At these schools, if you take a gap year after accruing college credits in high school, you apply as a transfer student, but without the gap year, you're a freshman.  I'm sure there are other possibilities as well.

Agree! Just to add on to to EKS's comments:

You absolutely need to know the university's individual policies. I have seen WTMers mention running into all these different policies in different posts: 

- the university accepts the student as a freshman, with unlimited number of DE credits AND with having earned an AA
- the university accepts the student as a freshman, with unlimited number of DE credits BUT NOT if having earned an AA
- the university accepts the student as a freshman, up to a maximum number of DE credits -- often 60, but I've also seen 30, 23-24, and even only 12 credits as the total allowed
- the university limits total credits that are accepted "in transfer" -- and that is the total of DE credits + credit-by-exam (AP and CLEP)
- the university does NOT accept the DE as counting as dual credit -- i.e., if you are counting it on the high school transcript as one of the required credits for high school graduation/college admission, the college will NOT also count it as credit towards a degree program -- the credit only counts as "high school" not as "college"
- universities have policies about which community colleges they will accept credits from, whether earned as DE or otherwise; look for schools with articulation agreements for best shot at most credits transferred/accepted towards a 4-year degree

Edited July 28, 2019 by Lori D.

[EKT]

3 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Agree! Just to add on to to EKS's comments:

You absolutely need to know the university's individual policies. I have seen WTMers mention running into all these different policies in different posts: 

- the university accepts the student as a freshman, with unlimited number of DE credits AND with having earned an AA
- the university accepts the student as a freshman, with unlimited number of DE credits BUT NOT if having earned an AA
- the university accepts the student as a freshman, up to a maximum number of DE credits -- often 60, but I've also seen 30, 23-34, and even only 12 credits as the total allowed
- the university limits total credits that are accepted "in transfer" -- and that is the total of DE credits + credit-by-exam (AP and CLEP)
- the university does NOT accept the DE as counting as dual credit -- i.e., if counting it as one of the required credits for high school graduation/college admission, the college will NOT also count it as credit towards a degree program -- the credit only counts as "high school" not as "college"
- universities have policies about which community colleges they will accept credits from, whether earned as DE or otherwise; look for schools with articulation agreements for best shot at most credits transferred/accepted towards a 4-year degree

Again, giant thank you! So helpful!! (Looks like I just need to settle in for many upcoming years of meticulously reading the fine print.) 🙂

[Lori D.]

5 minutes ago, EKT said:

Again, giant thank you! So helpful!! (Looks like I just need to settle in for many upcoming years of meticulously reading the fine print.) 🙂

Alas, but true, because every college is different. You might find it helpful to slowly start reading through the past threads linked in the pinned threads at the top of the High School board -- page 5 of Motherlode #2 has threads discussing dual enrollment. (:D

High School Motherlode #1
page 1 topics:
   High School Time Table (what to do/when for each year of high school)
   Preparing for High School
   Addressing Fears
   Getting Started
   Books & Resources
   Making a High School Plan
   Time Management
   High School on a Budget
   Expectations/Attitudes
   Accreditation / Cover Schools

page 2 topics:
tests -- info, past experiences, comparisons, etc on: PSAT; ACT / SAT; SAT Subject; AP;  IB; CLEP; GED; ASVAB; Compass/Accuplacer

High School Motherlode #2
page 1 topics:
   Transcripts / Record Keeping
   Credits
   Grading / GPA
   Honors Courses
   Record Keeping / Course Descriptions / Letter of Recommendation / Volunteering
   Graduation topics / Diplomas

page 5 topics:
   General Threads on High School Subjects (Writing, Math, Science, Electives)
   Home-Grown Courses / MOOC Courses
   Extracurricular Activities
   Outsourcing
   Online Classes
   Tutors
   Dual Enrollment

[Miguelsmom]

My son will graduate with an AA and AS. He will still be considered a freshman when enrolling into a university in my state. Which means he's required a higher GPA, SAT/ACT, high school transcript and all the other freshman requirements. He will take upper level courses and be a junior when classes start. However this is just my state schools all schools are different.  

[EKT]

2 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Alas, but true, because every college is different. You might find it helpful to slowly start reading through the past threads linked in the pinned threads at the top of the High School board -- page 5 of Motherlode #2 has threads discussing dual enrollment. (:D
 

Oh my gosh, what a treasure trove! I almost never visit the high school boards because my kids aren't there yet, but I will definitely be reading all of this! (I know I will be better off if I start learning this stuff now, so it's not totally overwhelming when we reach high school.) The generosity of these boards kind of blows my mind sometimes--thanks again!

[8filltheheart]

My kids have entered with numerous credit hrs either from AP, DE, or CLEP or a combination. They have not been considered upperclassmen until after their first semester. So, they are accepted as freshmen with x number of credit hrs and then their status changes 2nd semester to Jr or whatever. 

Fwiw, it doesn't take applying for a billion scholarships. The best scholarships out there come from the U's themselves. My kids have attended college on merit scholarships and they are only ever spent time filling out whatever is necessary for the handful of U's they applied to.

[TarynB]

Just a heads up: My son is a rising 12th grader and plans on a science-heavy major that requires a separate admission to the major at the end of soph year in college. I was surprised to learn that at the univ my son is likely to attend next year, for the major he wants, he'll have to take 4 out of 5, and preferably ALL (to be a favored applicant) of his pre-major STEM courses on-campus at that specific univ in order to be admitted to his desired major. So AP/CLEP/DE credit would do him no good (other than pre-exposure to the topic) for those courses. Apparently this is not uncommon for this major in our region of the country. I'm so glad we researched this in advance so we didn't waste a lot of time and money on AP/DE. So it helps immensely to research ahead of time whether having certain AP/DE credits will even help shave off time; in my DS's case, it wouldn't.

Another thing to consider: DE credits often (usually? depends on the school) don't get factored in to the college GPA at the receiving school. DS is "saving" some easier credits (instead of doing them via AP/DE) to complete at the univ during his freshman year, to help balance out the harder courses, in order to buffer a hit to his GPA from potentially lower than desired grades in the more difficult courses. A high college GPA is also required for admission to his (competitive) intended major. This exclusion from the receiving college's GPA can also apply to regular college transfer credits, not just DE.

I'm not anti-DE or anti-AP; DS will start college with a few under his belt. But we've looked around and found alternatives which we believe have better instruction, more depth, more challenge, and are more appealing to DS. (Not DE fluff nor AP teach-to-the test.)

I'm also not convinced that accumulating a bunch of credits prior to starting college is all that beneficial if you look at the end result. I do favor more breathing room for exploring classes of interest that may be outside the reqs for a particular major, but I'm not so sure I want to significantly decrease the overall time in college. Because I'm not so sure I would want DS to be graduating from college and entering the professional working world at age 20, KWIM? Just some things to think about.

Edited July 29, 2019 by TarynB

[Pawz4me]

DS20 graduated with an AS from an early college high school. Every university he applied to (some public, some private) treated him as a freshman applicant. He was eligible for all freshman scholarships. However, he did receive some perks at the university he decided to attend. Because of the number of credit hours he was able to transfer he got to pick his classes as if he were a junior (ahead of sophomores and freshmen). He was also able to choose an on campus parking spot along with the juniors (again, ahead of sophomores and freshmen). In short, he was treated to the best of both worlds.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Pawz4me

[TarynB]

6 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

DS20 graduated with an AS from an early college high school. Every university he applied to (some public, some private) treated him as a freshman applicant. He was eligible for all freshman scholarships. However, he did receive some perks at the university he decided to attend. Because of the number of credit hours he was able to transfer he got to pick his classes as if he were a junior (ahead of sophomores and freshmen). He was also able to chose an on campus parking spot along with the juniors (again, ahead of sophomores and freshmen). In short, he was treated to the best of both worlds.

I don't know how common it is, but at schools in my region, these same perks plus better dorms are also available to students in the honors college and at no extra cost. No previous college credits necessary.

[Lori D.]

2 hours ago, EKT said:

Oh my gosh, what a treasure trove! I almost never visit the high school boards because my kids aren't there yet, but I will definitely be reading all of this! (I know I will be better off if I start learning this stuff now, so it's not totally overwhelming when we reach high school.) The generosity of these boards kind of blows my mind sometimes--thanks again!

Yea! Happy to help!

And YEARS from now, once you are about halfway through the high school years, you might want to check out the pinned College Motherlode thread at the top of the College Board with 6 PAGES of linked threads on every conceivable topic about post-high school topics, and esp. going to college topics. (:D

[Pawz4me]

7 minutes ago, TarynB said:

I don't know how common it is, but at schools in my region, these same perks plus better dorms are also available to students in the honors college and at no extra cost. No previous college credits necessary.

DS's university has separate dorm space for early college graduates.

[catz]

This is common in our state because dual enrollment is free for qualified kids.  You apply as a freshman.  Even students that get an AA do here.  My kid applied as a freshman and still got all his credits to transfer to his 4 year University.  That said, if you really want credits to COUNT directly toward a degree, you would need to be firm on degree and transfer plan ahead of time.  

[catz]

4 hours ago, EKT said:

Okay, that makes sense. My question then is...if your daughter will have 85 DE credits and she applies to college as a freshman, I can see that she would get accepted as part of the freshman class, but...won't she technically have enough credits to be at least a sophomore? (Does this just mean she's just lucky and she'll finish a bachelor's degree in three years? Or, does it affect her in any other ways?) I guess it just seems weird to be accepted as a freshman, but not really be a freshman. (Thank you for sharing; just totally curious!) 

Sorry, I sent my first response before reading other's responses.  At many universities where they will take those credits, they will just place her at the appropriate level for subjects and if she completes degree requirements early, she can graduate early.  Some schools may have other perks for students coming in with credits.  My son registered as a freshman at orientation this semester but will get bumped up for priority next semester with the additional credits.  

And some schools are particular with certain majors and course sequences all being done on their campus.  Some colleges will only take so many credits.  Like one college my son was seriously considering wouldn't count any 3 credit class and wouldn't take anything toward a degree requirement and wouldn't take more than 6 classes.  They really wanted everyone on campus for 4 years.  We were open to that but had hoped he would at least have more flexibility with electives, etc coming in with a year's worth of credits.  

My son is going into his 4 year with a music major and it's just hard to get course sequences done in less than 4 years.  But he has a lot more flexibility for double major in his schedule because of his DE credits.   You can't start DE before 11th grade in our state.

But I think being treated as a freshman can be good for a lot of reasons - scholarship possibilities, social connections, etc.

[EKT]

1 hour ago, TarynB said:

 I'm so glad we researched this in advance so we didn't waste a lot of time and money on AP/DE. So it helps immensely to research ahead of time whether having certain AP/DE credits will even help shave off time; in my DS's case, it wouldn't.

Another thing to consider: AP/DE credits often (usually? depends on the school) don't get factored in to the college GPA at the receiving school. DS is "saving" some easier credits (instead of doing them via AP/DE) to complete at the univ during his freshman year, to help balance out the harder courses, in order to buffer a hit to his GPA from potentially lower than desired grades in the more difficult courses. A high college GPA is also required for admission to his (competitive) intended major. This exclusion from the receiving college's GPA can also apply to regular college transfer credits, not just DE.

Wow - thank you! So good to consider!!

[EKT]

1 hour ago, Lori D. said:

Yea! Happy to help!

And YEARS from now, once you are about halfway through the high school years, you might want to check out the pinned College Motherlode thread at the top of the College Board with 6 PAGES of linked threads on every conceivable topic about post-high school topics, and esp. going to college topics. (:D

Oh, I will be bookmarking that for sure! 😄 

[EKT]

32 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Sorry, I sent my first response before reading other's responses.  At many universities where they will take those credits, they will just place her at the appropriate level for subjects and if she completes degree requirements early, she can graduate early.  Some schools may have other perks for students coming in with credits.  My son registered as a freshman at orientation this semester but will get bumped up for priority next semester with the additional credits.  

And some schools are particular with certain majors and course sequences all being done on their campus.  Some colleges will only take so many credits.  Like one college my son was seriously considering wouldn't count any 3 credit class and wouldn't take anything toward a degree requirement and wouldn't take more than 6 classes.  They really wanted everyone on campus for 4 years.  We were open to that but had hoped he would at least have more flexibility with electives, etc coming in with a year's worth of credits.  

My son is going into his 4 year with a music major and it's just hard to get course sequences done in less than 4 years.  But he has a lot more flexibility for double major in his schedule because of his DE credits.   You can't start DE before 11th grade in our state.

But I think being treated as a freshman can be good for a lot of reasons - scholarship possibilities, social connections, etc.

This all makes a lot of sense - thank you for elaborating!

[lmrich]

AND... since your daughter is in 7th grade now, everything can change by the time she is ready to start college. Keep your eye on a few of the colleges she has an interest in attending. 

[EKT]

4 hours ago, lmrich said:

AND... since your daughter is in 7th grade now, everything can change by the time she is ready to start college. Keep your eye on a few of the colleges she has an interest in attending. 

Oh my gosh, I know...so true!