hard therapy session - prayers/kind thoughts/hugs?

[gardenmom5]

i had a really hard therapy session - dh isn't available as he's dealing with clients.  (he works from home.)

I realize one issue, is a need for validation. (fairly common with those who grew up being gaslighted). I've never really talked about our childhood with my sister (she was the favorite/victim and tbh, I'm not sure how she'd handle my assessments.  I think she was as much a victim as me.).  my brother still tells me to "get over it" - and just as often makes statements inferring everything is in my head.  (i really need to remember this the next time he starts b****ing about his ex-wives. I change the subject to what he's doing, so he can talk about himself. he's more willing to change the subject then.)    I fought this subject with my mother for years - years before she started to open up about what she felt during her childhood (and wishing an aunt was her mother).   

I used to talk about my experiences - as I needed to get it out.  I felt like people didn't believe me, and I'm sure I made them uncomfortable as so much was outside their experience.   one friend - who listened - said it was because "you're too normal".  today, my therapist (I've only been going since mid December) said she marvels at "how normal you are, and raised such competent and high achieving children".  and she's the one who diagnosed me with cptsd.  we use a lightboard in treatment - and it is very helpful.

[happi duck]

(hugs)

[G5052]

Hang in there. When I used to see mine, I nearly always cried all the way home.

I also received a C-PTSD diagnosis, but thankfully it's much, much better. I know my triggers and what to do when it rears its ugly head.

[historically accurate]

Big hugs to you! 

[gardenmom5]

Just now, G5052 said:

Hang in there. When I used to see mine, I nearly always cried all the way home.

I also received a C-PTSD diagnosis, but thankfully it's much, much better. I know my triggers and what to do when it rears its ugly head.

she has to keep me on track, as I'll try to go off on tangents - that are "happy".  

did you do the lightboard?  I'm finding it helpful - we'll see for long term.   I appreciate hearing a positive outcome, and glad that things are better for you.

[G5052]

1 minute ago, gardenmom5 said:

she has to keep me on track, as I'll try to go off on tangents - that are "happy".  

did you do the lightboard?  I'm finding it helpful - we'll see for long term.   I appreciate hearing a positive outcome, and glad that things are better for you.

 

No, I didn't do a light board. I don't want to provide specifics on a public board, but what we did worked really well. I feel like a different person.

[Junie]

Sending hugs.  I'm glad you're therapy is helping.

[Lecka]

I’m glad it is helping, too.  

[Shoeless]

(((hugs)))

[TheReader]

A million hugs. I get it. I hadn't realized, until a few years ago (when an uncle/aunt got me tipsy & talking) that what I went through as a teen was so far outside the norm, and that other people also thought it was horrible, not just me. And that I could have talked to people back then and maybe they'd have stepped in. :shrug: How was I to know? The grown-ups around me didn't ever say.....

A million hugs, though; it's so.....I don't even know the word.....to hear people be amazed that you survived, and turned out "normal" despite it all......(((((hugs)))))) And yes, prayers for your continued recovery; it really is hard stuff to get through. 

[gardenmom5]

32 minutes ago, TheReader said:

A million hugs. I get it. I hadn't realized, until a few years ago (when an uncle/aunt got me tipsy & talking) that what I went through as a teen was so far outside the norm, and that other people also thought it was horrible, not just me. And that I could have talked to people back then and maybe they'd have stepped in. :shrug: How was I to know? The grown-ups around me didn't ever say.....

A million hugs, though; it's so.....I don't even know the word.....to hear people be amazed that you survived, and turned out "normal" despite it all......(((((hugs)))))) And yes, prayers for your continued recovery; it really is hard stuff to get through. 

I did talk to adults I thought I could count on at the time.  nothing happened, expect they made me feel like my complaints weren't valid.  just more - "it must be me" feedback.  (as if I didn't get enough from my grandmother.)  I don't think they had mandatory reporting, or even where would it be reported to?

I once asked one of my kids DARE officers about what they would have done when the big brother was growing and dealing drugs?  - he flat out had no clue.  he saw it as between a rock and a hard place for a kid in that situation.  the only reason I didn't call the cops and report my brother (since my mother was too much of a wuss to put her foot down) - I was afraid of what my grandmother would do to me.

[gardenmom5]

I went to lunch with 1sil.  she spent eight years in therapy.  she saw one therapist who said to her "families aren't like that". . . .blink. .  blink. . . blink.   "I'm in group therapy and every single person there comes from a family 'like' that!"

some people have no business in this field.

same reason I'll be in a group at church and their "what to do about difficult people".   treat them nice, give them love - that's why they're so grouchy, etc. etc. etc. . . . .you can be nice to the alligator - but don't complain when it bites your arm off.  you get people who came from reasonable backgrounds, and they have zero clue anything else even exists.

one of 2ds's friends attended grad school in Jerusalem.   there was a university group who was there for a semester, or maybe six weeks.  she was showing them around and told them __ area you do not go to after dark.  one girl "oh is it a make out spot" silly giggle, giggle, giggle.  "no, it's a you'll get mugged/killed spot". . .

[TheReader]

14 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

I did talk to adults I thought I could count on at the time.  nothing happened, expect they made me feel like my complaints weren't valid.  just more - "it must be me" feedback.  (as if I didn't get enough from my grandmother.)  I don't think they had mandatory reporting, or even where would it be reported to?

I once asked one of my kids DARE officers about what they would have done when the big brother was growing and dealing drugs?  - he flat out had no clue.  he saw it as between a rock and a hard place for a kid in that situation.  the only reason I didn't call the cops and report my brother (since my mother was too much of a wuss to put her foot down) - I was afraid of what my grandmother would do to me.

Oh, this is horrible! I am so very sorry. I hope you're able to reach a place where you feel supported now and can accept that your situation really was as bad as you thought it was; to overcome that "it must be me" feeling....(((hugs & prayers)))

[Alicia64]

((((GardenMom5))))

My thoughts, hugs, and prayers are always with you. I see your name and I send a hug. Every time.

You have my deepest respect. Surviving a gaslight situation is not an easy thing. By a long shot. (I can't talk with my golden-child sister either about it.)

Alley

[gardenmom5]

52 minutes ago, TheReader said:

Oh, this is horrible! I am so very sorry. I hope you're able to reach a place where you feel supported now and can accept that your situation really was as bad as you thought it was; to overcome that "it must be me" feeling....(((hugs & prayers)))

that one is pretty much on the surface of what was going on.

I think of the scene in forrest gump where jenny is yelling and throwing rocks at her old house. forrest, narrating, says "sometimes there aren't enough rocks". . . . 

as an adult, with adult children, I'm even more horrified than I was as a teen.  (as a teen there was more anger, but I knew it wasn't "normal". I just felt like people either didn't believe me because it was so far outside their experience, and "all teens complain about their families", or they were simply too uncomfortable I felt like I was being avoided.)

listing to some of the youtube videos on the childhood effects of emotional neglect & trauma, and then the adult/long-term effects - I see it.  and I'm angry and hurt again. highly likely as a child, today, I would be diagnosed with aspergers. as if that wasn't hard enough. . . .    I made a lot of progress on my own, but I'm glad I can finally get professional help.

[gardenmom5]

3 minutes ago, Alicia64 said:

((((GardenMom5))))

My thoughts, hugs, and prayers are always with you. I see your name and I send a hug. Every time.

You have my deepest respect. Surviving a gaslight situation is not an easy thing. By a long shot. (I can't talk with my golden-child sister either about it.)

Alley

my brother responds in the more typical "golden child" way and lashes out. (I thought he would strangle me the day he was b***g about his first ex wife and I said "she sounds like grandmother".  how dare I insult grandmother!!! fortunately he was driving and had enough sense to keep his hands on the steering wheel.)

  my sister, I'm afraid it could make her challenges worse/harder for her to handle and she'd turn more inward. she has sought counseling off and on over the years.  but maybe if I tell her what I saw, it would help her know just how out of healthy things were and help?  I'll think about it.  if I thought it would help her, I would willingly talk to her.

[Arcadia]

19 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

  today, my therapist (I've only been going since mid December) said she marvels at "how normal you are, and raised such competent and high achieving children".  and she's the one who diagnosed me with cptsd.  

 

I think medical professionals sometimes wants to be encouraging. Kind of like you pull through/survive despite the harsh situation and have the grit/resilience to “get better”. 

2 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

my sister, I'm afraid it could make her challenges worse/harder for her to handle and she'd turn more inward. she has sought counseling off and on over the years.  but maybe if I tell her what I saw, it would help her know just how out of healthy things were and help?  I'll think about it.  if I thought it would help her, I would willingly talk to her.

 

If you trust your therapist judgement, I would ask her opinion about it. Sometimes timing of telling matters.

[gardenmom5]

57 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

Me, too. Everything. you. said. Me, too.

I would be curious to know what it is like for someone else to be "triggered", because I would like to be able to recognize it if it is happening to me. Is it too insensitive of me to ask what does triggering look like? I've just often wondered what's going on with me sometimes. Don't answer if you don't want to.

Glad you are making progress. Validation is good. Wish I could get a large dose of that. (Honestly, I've only ever gotten it here, and only from people who understand. Some others have been a little less helpful, but that's the risk you take on a public board).

 And at church you ARE told it's best to have a certain mentality toward difficult people. I just think to myself......but.....you can stand there and easily say that, but you probably don't realize what it's like to have a relationship where you need to protect and guard yourself....not open up and be more vulnerable to them, for goodness sake. Sometimes it literally makes going to church a bit difficult.

But hang in there. You've only had a few sessions so far.

 

when I am triggered, I feel overwhelming fear/anxiety to the point it becomes paralyzing.  I shut down and simply can't do what is required, if I try to push forward - I break down and completely shut down.  'though . . . my brother, I become so angry with him almost as soon as we make contact, I just want to scream. but growing up, I wasn't able to stand up against him. (my sister once commented she was disgusted that my mother never defended me against him.) and he was "the boy" (golden child), and no one ever let him know there was a line for acceptable behavior. he does what he wants, and he frequently crosses it, and still has no clue it's there.  (I don't think he does anything illegal - anymore.)

1ds said he's noticed things - but he can't put his finger on what.  He's a very tender soul.   

re: validation.  because mil is  ...nuts..., and dh could easily handle my grandmother (she hated him for it too, and tended to steer clear of him.), he thought I was "over sensitive" and just didn't handle her properly. I don't remember what she did, but I was sharing it with him in a "rolling my eyes" kind of way (it was completely everyday typical behavior for her). he had the most shocked expression on his face.  "I take it back.  she's as bad as you say."

and the day I shared a "grandmother anecdote" (in a rolling my eyes kind of way) with my then bishop (who has a masters in marriage and family therapy). he started sputtering  . . "but that's abuse!"  uh, yeah. . . 

yes - sometimes it does make church very difficult.  I think there is getting to be more awareness - in some circles at least. at least by leadership, if not general members.  . . . and the equating forgiveness with absolution, allowing an abuser to continuing abusing.  THAT infuriates me even more.  

I'm grateful for this board.  I know I feel I can be more frank than in real life, and I've certainly learned a lot.

[fairfarmhand]

21 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

i had a really hard therapy session - dh isn't available as he's dealing with clients.  (he works from home.)

I realize one issue, is a need for validation. (fairly common with those who grew up being gaslighted). I've never really talked about our childhood with my sister (she was the favorite/victim and tbh, I'm not sure how she'd handle my assessments.  I think she was as much a victim as me.).  my brother still tells me to "get over it" - and just as often makes statements inferring everything is in my head.  (i really need to remember this the next time he starts b****ing about his ex-wives. I change the subject to what he's doing, so he can talk about himself. he's more willing to change the subject then.)    I fought this subject with my mother for years - years before she started to open up about what she felt during her childhood (and wishing an aunt was her mother).   

I used to talk about my experiences - as I needed to get it out.  I felt like people didn't believe me, and I'm sure I made them uncomfortable as so much was outside their experience.   one friend - who listened - said it was because "you're too normal".  today, my therapist (I've only been going since mid December) said she marvels at "how normal you are, and raised such competent and high achieving children".  and she's the one who diagnosed me with cptsd.  we use a lightboard in treatment - and it is very helpful.

I've consistently felt the bolded. The person that I deal with presents so well to outsiders. And others can't imagine her behaving in ways that I have desccribed. The only people I know who truly get it are those who have mentally ill relatives. They understand.

[fairfarmhand]

18 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

 

same reason I'll be in a group at church and their "what to do about difficult people".   treat them nice, give them love - that's why they're so grouchy, etc. etc. etc. . . . .you can be nice to the alligator - but don't complain when it bites your arm off.  you get people who came from reasonable backgrounds, and they have zero clue anything else even exists.

 

My dd17 is struggling with this. People think her problems with this person should simply be "talked out." And they don't get it. The sarcastic response, "OHHHH thanks for telling me that. Its brilliant that you thought of that!"

[G5052]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

when I am triggered, I feel overwhelming fear/anxiety to the point it becomes paralyzing.  I shut down and simply can't do what is required, if I try to push forward - I break down and completely shut down.  'though . . . my brother, I become so angry with him almost as soon as we make contact, I just want to scream. but growing up, I wasn't able to stand up against him. (my sister once commented she was disgusted that my mother never defended me against him.) and he was "the boy" (golden child), and no one ever let him know there was a line for acceptable behavior. he does what he wants, and he frequently crosses it, and still has no clue it's there.  (I don't think he does anything illegal - anymore.)

yes - sometimes it does make church very difficult.  I think there is getting to be more awareness - in some circles at least. at least by leadership, if not general members.  . . . and the equating forgiveness with absolution, allowing an abuser to continuing abusing.  THAT infuriates me even more.  

 

I practice something akin to this YouTube video. I wear a bracelet every day that is stretchy (more subtle than a rubber band). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6PkVtycW6w

Thankfully I go to a church that gets it. I also go to a local support group of people that get it because they've lived it. Both are needed, IMHO.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

My dd17 is struggling with this. People think her problems with this person should simply be "talked out." And they don't get it. The sarcastic response, "OHHHH thanks for telling me that. Its brilliant that you thought of that!"

 bless their hearts .

I was there when a woman who was part of dh's and sil's social group in college sought reassurance they were exaggerating stories of their mother . . .she'd met their mother on multiple occasions.  she only saw a woman who loved to be social, not the reasons behind it.  (I strongly suspect she's a compulsive talker because she can't stand being alone with her own thoughts.)  -no, no exaggerations. . . .

mil was leaving the country for a year or so, so sil got some friends to move in with her.  well, mil's visa was delayed.  she assured her friends *it's only for a month*.  fine fine no problem . . .. it wasn't long before "when. is. she. *leaving*?!?!???"

[goldberry]

((hugs))  It takes so much bravery to face these things and start dealing with them.  So much easier to hide and deny.  You are brave.  Hang in there.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, G5052 said:

 

I practice something akin to this YouTube video. I wear a bracelet every day that is stretchy (more subtle than a rubber band). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6PkVtycW6w

Thankfully I go to a church that gets it. I also go to a local support group of people that get it because they've lived it. Both are needed, IMHO.

I'm familiar with the technique.  this wouldn't work for me.   I'm glad it works for you.

the therapy I'm doing uses a technique that draws the emotion out of the amygdala - where it has stalled, and is the source of the problem.  when the emotion has been processed (which the brain is supposed to do on it's own, but if it's overwhelmed it "shuts down processing" so it just sits there.) - I'm able to move on.  the memories are there, but the emotion is not.  I suspect some of what we worked on yesterday - will require more focus, but there was progress. (as difficult as it was.).  we've had two areas already I have felt what it is like to not have the associated strong negative emotion. and that is . . . very unexpected.  

people are human, some 'get it', and some are oblivious. I have the support of those who matter. I don't discuss it with those who don't (and they certainly don't "need to know".).

[Shoeless]

4 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

My dd17 is struggling with this. People think her problems with this person should simply be "talked out." And they don't get it. The sarcastic response, "OHHHH thanks for telling me that. Its brilliant that you thought of that!"

Several years ago, my half-sister wrote me because she, a newly married and 26 years old, wanted my advice on how to help her newly-acquired-via-marriage nephews and nieces adapt to their own parents' divorce.  You see, my half-sister and her husband had come to the "realization" that one day, they may have to step in and take custody of these kids, because half-sister's SIL was such a basketcase (nevermind that these kids had fathers that might want custody of their children).  My half-sister wanted my advice and opinions on steps adults had taken to help me adjust when my parents (my mom and her father) divorced way back in the 70s.  She, at 26 years of age, childless, and married for a year? maybe two years? had determined that if everyone simply *talked it out*, why things could just sail along so smoothly. She just wanted to know what she should say to these kids to ease their way in life and make up for their parents' disastrous marriage and divorce. 

And the arrogance of it all made me furious.  Talk it out?  Really?  You think all it's going to take to resolve years of hard feelings is a few chats over cocoa?  Well, how nice.  How exceptionally nice  it was of her to offer to patiently listen, offer a few pat phrases, and think that would make it all better for those kids.  Even now, almost 10 years later, I'm still profoundly angry about this argument with her.  It turned into a huge fight because she kept saying "But if you just *talk about it*, you'll feel better!  These things only get better if people *talk about it*!", and I kept saying "Drop it. I don't want to talk about this with you".  She kept pushing and I finally blew up at her and said, "Fine.  You want to talk about it?  Great, let's talk.  Here's all the crap I dealt with as a step-child in your mother's family.  What are your solutions for fixing it, since you know so damn much about all this, tell me!", and spilled out 30+ years of anger.  Suddenly, she had nothing to say and didn't want to talk about it anymore.       

Sometimes, "talking it out" doesn't fix anything.  Sometimes, talking about it just turns it into a scab to pick at. 

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, MissLemon said:

 

And the arrogance of it all made me furious.  Talk it out?  Really?   ... She kept pushing and I finally blew up at her and said, "Fine.  You want to talk about it?  Great, let's talk.  Here's all the crap I dealt with as a step-child in your mother's family.  What are your solutions for fixing it, since you know so damn much about all this, tell me!", and spilled out 30+ years of anger.  Suddenly, she had nothing to say and didn't want to talk about it anymore.       

Sometimes, "talking it out" doesn't fix anything.  Sometimes, talking about it just turns it into a scab to pick at. 

bless her heart.   

I'm sorry you had to deal with that.

[Lizzie in Ma]

((hugs))

[G5052]

13 hours ago, MissLemon said:

Sometimes, "talking it out" doesn't fix anything.  Sometimes, talking about it just turns it into a scab to pick at. 

 

LOL. One time my therapist said that some people just don't deserve close relationships. They don't empathize well, they don't take criticism to heart, etc. etc. Trying to resolve something with them is impossible. That's a hard life lesson.

[BooksandBoys]

Hugs from me too. I’m sorry. I have had many sessions that were so hard that I had to go to bed afterward. (In fact, that’s one of the things I’ve learned in this type of therapy: that the cortisol, norepinephrine, etc flood when I’m triggered leaves me exhausted and I must rest. I can’t just power through anymore. 

One thing I do, which sounds silly, is I always take myself out for a decaf coffee after a session. It’s my reward for doing the session because even the easy ones are hard, and it’s another way to tell my brain that I’m safe here, now, for the next few minutes. And because I never buy myself coffee any other time, it really works as a reward for doing the hard thing. 

And, yes, I know exactly what you all are saying about people not believing you. 

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, BooksandBoys said:

Hugs from me too. I’m sorry. I have had many sessions that were so hard that I had to go to bed afterward. (In fact, that’s one of the things I’ve learned in this type of therapy: that the cortisol, norepinephrine, etc flood when I’m triggered leaves me exhausted and I must rest. I can’t just power through anymore. 

One thing I do, which sounds silly, is I always take myself out for a decaf coffee after a session. It’s my reward for doing the session because even the easy ones are hard, and it’s another way to tell my brain that I’m safe here, now, for the next few minutes. And because I never buy myself coffee any other time, it really works as a reward for doing the hard thing. 

And, yes, I know exactly what you all are saying about people not believing you. 

yes, sleep is good … dh had clients in the house, so ...noise.

sil came over and we went to lunch at my favorite indian restaurant.  they have the best naan, almost like pastry. they had mango chicken instead of butter chicken - very similar.  it was good.  I don't think sil has had much indian food as she didn't' know what tandoori chicken was.

when this started, I told dh "don't plan on me doing anything on Wednesdays.  I might be useful, I might not.  If I need to go shopping/out-to-lunch/to-bed afterwards - I will do that for as long as I need.  I've had at least once I felt like I wasn't functional until the weekend.  I have things I have to do today (prepping for dudelings LAN BD party tomorrow.  but hey . . .chocolate!   I am making two types of brownies - and I promise not to use maple flavoring instead of vanilla....dh said "they're Canadian brownies" - at least in stores, you can find all sorts of things that use maple instead of what you'd expect.)

[Shoeless]

10 hours ago, G5052 said:

 

LOL. One time my therapist said that some people just don't deserve close relationships. They don't empathize well, they don't take criticism to heart, etc. etc. Trying to resolve something with them is impossible. That's a hard life lesson.

That's an interesting way of looking at it.  I wonder what you do with those types of people, though?  Do you cut them out of your life completely, do you keep them at arm's length?  Where do they fit in? 

That's the million dollar question, I suppose.