WWYD? great teacher, not so great co-op kids...

[...................]

So we've realized that our co-op is comprised of 80%  of the following : Public school leavers (trying to find a less offensive word other than drop out), Special needs and unschooler-ish people.  Only about 2 out of every 10 kids are there for academics, and learning and plan to be truly college-ready.

 

This has made for some frustrating situations in which students don't do the work, teachers tell the motivated students to stop raising their hands (even though my dd always has a 20 second rule before she raises, she counts to 20)...and even reteaching material from the homework in-class.  Additionally there is a slightly unhappy atmosphere.  The children are not outwardly mean but they obviously don't like the 2 or 3 higher performing students. They don't bother her or say anything, in fact they don't even make ugly faces or roll their eyes.  But they do not speak to her, at all. 

 

I have experience with the Biology teacher for next year and sent her an extensive interview email.  I know her to be a truly excellent teacher and we have the same philosophy.  She says-

-she never adjusts the pace of the class.  What is on the syllabus is taught, regardless of students not doing the work.  For struggling students, she offers free tutoring on a limited basis.

-when students need a workaround due to special needs, it is done in a way that no other students are aware, and it doesnt' slow the pace of the class down

- she does not, ever, reteach homework due to non-performance.  She moves on.  

 

Essentially over her many years of co-op teaching she realized that 25% of the kids don't do their work, another 50% turn it in consistently late or with pieces missing (aka a nice kid who is trying but hasn't been taught time management and isn't accountable as their parents are unschooly), and the other 25% of students who have been taught accountability, stick to deadlines and do their work (barring illness of course)

 

Now the ONE area that I wasn't totally sold on, is that she said she does try to draw out the unmotivated kids, when she's asking questions.  she tries to get to every kid in the class, so eventually there will be a little bit of awkward moments, but she says she does it to make the class interesting and have a variety of people speaking.  

 

My dd says she doesn't want to do it.  She would prefer to take another online class.  she says in online classes, they don't give a flying fig if one kid doesn't care, and she doesn't have to waste valuable dead air time waiting for unmotivated students.  She also says the atmosphere is friendlier as, in the breakout sessions, she gets to be the hero. She puts in all the answers and the other students check her work, and one does SpellCheck for her (she has dyslexia) and she loves this method.  This way the students that don't do their work have their consequence0 they dont' learn and have bad grades.  But they don't hate her for it, instead she's the hero. They get to sit back during breakout and check her spelling! LOL 

 

My dd would still take one major class at the co-op (a small class that uses very difficult materials so no one but the truly motivated usually sign up) and she'd still be able to have lunch with her friends and go to chapel.  So she'd get out and see people :)

 

What would you do.  Obviously if she takes it online we still have to do Biology labs at home.  EW! LOL

 

 

 

 

[cuckoomamma]

Online 😊

[OneStepAtATime]

Agreed.  On-line.

 

If you are really not wanting to do the labs, as I understand it dissection is no longer really required.  Maybe the other labs wouldn't be so bad?

 

Also, are there any other families that might want to pair up with your DD for labs?  Maybe you and another family could switch off on doing biology labs at each other's houses?  

[chiguirre]

I Trinqueta's online bio class from MPOA, they use a lot of virtual labs. The dissections are Froguts. At this point I think a lot of public schools do this too because it's cheaper and less trouble for the teachers.

 

http://www.froguts.com/

[...................]

Thanks!

[regentrude]

My dd says she doesn't want to do it.  She would prefer to take another online class.  she says in online classes, they don't give a flying fig if one kid doesn't care, and she doesn't have to waste valuable dead air time waiting for unmotivated students. 

 

Bingo. Do online.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I would allow her to do what she wants/is motivated to do. 

[Julie of KY]

I would follow her lead unless you have a good reason not to - therefore, I'd do online.

[RootAnn]

:iagree: Online.

Virtual labs.

[teachermom2834]

I agree with the others. My kids have enjoyed co-op at times but we are at the point that we only use it for extras or subjects we are willing to have less than ideal coverage of.

[OneStepAtATime]

Just had to say, every time I pop into this thread I keep hearing these little Hive voices chanting musically "on-line, on-line, on-line" in happy unison.  Like maybe the 7 dwarfs singing away as they head off to work.  Yeah, I think the allergy meds are...affecting things.   :laugh: 

 

 

[Mom22ns]

Just had to say, every time I pop into this thread I keep hearing these little Hive voices chanting musically "on-line, on-line, on-line" in happy unison.  Like maybe the 7 dwarfs singing away as they head off to work.  Yeah, I think the allergy meds are...affecting things.   :laugh: 

 

:lol:  :lol:

 

I'll chime in and say online just to keep the music playing for OneStep.

 

The only reason I would go local is for the social interaction, but she isn't getting any. Run away.

[OneStepAtATime]

:lol:  :lol:

 

I'll chime in and say online just to keep the music playing for OneStep.

 

The only reason I would go local is for the social interaction, but she isn't getting any. Run away.

:laugh:   And thanks... :thumbup1:

[catz]

If she wants to do 9nlinw, I’d totally go with that. We have quirkiness in our teen co-op but my kids l9ve it so we make it work with careful class and teacher selection and by rounding out at home if necessary. If my kids prefer something else for a particular subject, we’d go with it.

[Garga]

Online. 

 

I don't remember any of our biology labs last year being gross. They involved things like adding a stain onto something on a microscope slide to see if you could see things better if they were stained, or seeing how water plants put oxygen back into water (plant from the fish section of the store). We put out paper plates around town with sticky stuff on microscope slides and after a while we brought them home and looked at the slides under the microscope to see if any pollution had stuck to our slides.  We tried growing some beans with some chemicals that ought to have made them grow really well, but it was winter and it didn't work.  The "grossest" thing was where we made a Winogradsky column: we got mud and water from a local pond and put it into 4 plastic bottles.  We added different things to the different bottles (egg shells, newspaper, and something else), we directed a light at our columns...and waited.  For about 8 weeks.  During that time, we kept track of the (harmless) bacteria that grew in bands in the bottles.  (Purple, green, orange--they were pretty.)  And that certainly wasn't really gross at all.

 

All of our labs were those sorts of things.  They were time consuming (my son is the tortoise to my hare). DS refused to do a dissection, but those can be done virtually at the high school level, no problem.

 

So...online and do the labs at home without qualms.  Hang on...there might have been a lab involving meal worms, but we skipped that because I think those things are creepy.  I guess if it's online you might not be able to skip some labs for things you might find creepy.  You could always find out what the labs are ahead of time and find out if the student needs to do them all.  For my son's chemistry class this year, the teacher strongly recommends that you do them, but if the student doesn't, she doesn't count it against the student in the grades, as she knows some students can't afford supplies or their parents will not help them or buy the supplies for them or whatever is the case.  In those cases, she tells the students to look online for demonstrations of the labs (for her class, they're all demonstrated online.)

[Tsuga]

Online.

 

The other class is going to be remedial except for self-study. I would refer to the leavers not as leavers but as public school transfers. After all, if they are studying, they didn't drop out really. They just left public school.

[daijobu]

 

This has made for some frustrating situations in which students don't do the work, teachers tell the motivated students to stop raising their hands (even though my dd always has a 20 second rule before she raises, she counts to 20)...and even reteaching material from the homework in-class.  Additionally there is a slightly unhappy atmosphere.  The children are not outwardly mean but they obviously don't like the 2 or 3 higher performing students. They don't bother her or say anything, in fact they don't even make ugly faces or roll their eyes.  But they do not speak to her, at all. 

 

 

 

My dd says she doesn't want to do it.  She would prefer to take another online class.  she says in online classes, they don't give a flying fig if one kid doesn't care, and she doesn't have to waste valuable dead air time waiting for unmotivated students.  She also says the atmosphere is friendlier as, in the breakout sessions, she gets to be the hero. She puts in all the answers and the other students check her work, and one does SpellCheck for her (she has dyslexia) and she loves this method.  This way the students that don't do their work have their consequence0 they dont' learn and have bad grades.  But they don't hate her for it, instead she's the hero. They get to sit back during breakout and check her spelling! LOL 

 

 

 

The reasons you describe above are the reasons I never sent my kids to regular school in the first place.  If you're going to all the effort to homeschool, why sabotage yourself?

 

My dd would completely agree with the reasons in paragraph 2.  She loves her online classes, and saves in person interactions for purely social events.  

[...................]

Online.

 

The other class is going to be remedial except for self-study. I would refer to the leavers not as leavers but as public school transfers. After all, if they are studying, they didn't drop out really. They just left public school.

I like this...transfers

[historymatters]

Agree with all above! Go for the online.

 

If you could find a Biology Intensive in your area then that might be another option too to add to the online class. . We did the one chiguirre recommended last year through HIScience and it was wonderful. Worth every flipping penny because it cost me less than all of the lab supplies would've at home and dd had a good two days getting the hands on stuff. Box. Checked. :)

This is what we're doing in the fall, with Greg Landry locally.

Edited March 10, 2018 by historymatters

[Reefgazer]

I teach biology at the co-op we attend and have the same experiences as your co-op teacher, and I deal with things in much the same way.  I have asked disruptive students to leave class, and I have only had to make that request once, since they see I am serious.

 

I am not a fan of virtual labs; there is really no hands-on experience with them and I do not consider the class a legitimate "with lab" class unless there is substantial hands-on work.  (I will not debate this, for those who are offended by it, so skip it.  I've given it plenty of thought and am not changing my mind on that).  Here's a few thoughts you could approach the co-op teacher with:  1) The student studies the work independently and at-home, but participates in the class lab sessions.  That way, you don't have to deal with labs at home and your student still gets a legitimate lab experience.  The co-op teacher will probably agree to it. 2) The student does the co-op teacher's labs, with her direction and materials, but works independently at home.  That way, the student avoids slackers that hold the class back, but still has the direction/hands-on materials from the teacher.  I have a student doing this (for other reasons).   

Edited March 11, 2018 by reefgazer