Black Panther Discussion

[mom2bee]

This post has no spoilers in it, but every post after this might, so read at your own risk!

 

Who else been to see this movie yet? I went yesterday and Oh....my...goodness I enjoyed it sooooo much! So much!

 

Who has seen it?

 

What did you think?

 

Favorite parts? Hated parts?

 

 

 

If movies were not so expensive, I would go and see it again ASAP. When it gets to our discount theater, I'm probably going to go every day for a week, just 'cause!

 

I thought that character and dialogue were really good. I think that they did a good job managing the story telling, and the world building was a-maz-ingly done. I thought that Wakanda looked fantastic and felt authentic!

 

I really, really, really loved the world building.

 

I actually recognized quite a few elements of actual African cultures, which made me feel a little "smart" but also made me want to go and read more and know the particulars (Which  in my opinion is one sign of a good fiction. Any fiction that makes me look up information, gets points for stimulating my curiosity)

 

The humor was interjected at almost always the right times and didn't feel too forced. There were a couple of things that I felt could've been shot better.

 

I absolutely adored the on screen relationship between T'Challa and Shuri. I loved the prominence and the role of the various female characters.

 

I felt that I was watching a movie which featured several empowered girls and women, instead of watching a movie which beats me over the head with girl power messages. I hope that that makes sense.

 

I seldom re-read or re-watch anything so the list of movies that are worth buying on DVD is short, but I will absolutely be buying Black Panther on DVD when the time comes.

 

Any one else?

[rebcoola]

Yes we saw it Tuesday.  It was great!!  It felt different like the women were just themselves and awesome not trying to prove that women are awesome.  I have movie pass so I probably will go see it again soon.

[FaithManor]

I have not seen it. The twenty one year old college student saw it this afternoon. He hates "plot holes" and felt it was riddled with them. I don't know what to think. I really liked Age of Ultron and he did not. I really want to see Black Panther but only if I am not going to spend my time going, "But wait...that doesn't make sense!"

 

Then again, I loved the Indiana Jone's movies and they were so full of plot holes that it was comical. Yet, I still enjoyed them.

[fraidycat]

We saw it a couple days ago and really enjoyed it. My son walked out of the theater, into the mall, and bought a T'Challa pop figure for his collection.

 

As with all action movies nowadays, my "hated" parts are the spinning cameras. Just write good scenes and let the cameras stay still!!!

[Bluegoat]

I haven't but my ds8 really wants to see it.  Do you think it's suitable - he's not especially sensitive.  I'm not that into Marvel myself, so I don't expect to be blown away, I am just hoping for watchable.

[mom2bee]

I have not seen it. The twenty one year old college student saw it this afternoon. He hates "plot holes" and felt it was riddled with them. I don't know what to think. I really liked Age of Ultron and he did not. I really want to see Black Panther but only if I am not going to spend my time going, "But wait...that doesn't make sense!"

 

Then again, I loved the Indiana Jone's movies and they were so full of plot holes that it was comical. Yet, I still enjoyed them.

 

As for plot holes, there were a few questions that I had that I felt weren't addressed! LOL, I don't know if they'll be explained in another movie or just left unanswered/unexplained.

 

My biggest question is where did the Wakandans think that their other prince went, you know?! People had to have been told something, right?

 

T'Chaka (the father) told his son that he (the little kid) was the truth that I chose to omit, so does that mean that the elders/leaders of the clans knew what had happened to the younger prince and it was just kept hush-hush from the majority of the Wakandans?

 

What happened to Eric between "that fateful night" and growing up? Who raised him, you know? It's mentioned that his mom is American, but there is never any word about her. He went to college, grad school and the military so....who watched over him, you know?

 

Also, as much as I loved her, were they really trying to imply that Shuri was responsible for practically all that tech? There were never any other scientists working with her and she spoke like she as the one who'd come up with it all, "my designs" which I felt was a little unrealistic.

 

 

Wha

Edited February 26, 2018 by mom2bee

[Annie G]

We really enjoyed it! And you’re right- the women were so authentically strong and smart with no feeling of a forced girl power message.

[mom2bee]

As with all action movies nowadays, my "hated" parts are the spinning cameras. Just write good scenes and let the cameras stay still!!!

Oh my goodness yes! I hate spinning cameras. I can't watch TV performances for that reason. I hate that soooooo much!

 

 

[FaithManor]

And lens flares. Really JJ Abrams, you know I am pointing at you! Those first two Star Trek movies nearly seared my retinas.

[mom2att]

As for plot holes, there were a few questions that I had that I felt weren't addressed! LOL, I don't know if they'll be explained in another movie or just left unanswered/unexplained.

 

My biggest question is where did the Wakandans think that their other prince went, you know?! People had to have been told something, right?

 

T'Chaka (the father) told his son that he (the little kid) was the truth that I chose to omit, so does that mean that the elders/leaders of the clans knew what had happened to the younger prince and it was just kept hush-hush from the majority of the Wakandans?

 

What happened to Eric between "that fateful night" and growing up? Who raised him, you know? It's mentioned that his mom is American, but there is never any word about her. He went to college, grad school and the military so....who watched over him, you know?

 

Also, as much as I loved her, were they really trying to imply that Shuri was responsible for practically all that tech? There were never any other scientists working with her and she spoke like she as the one who'd come up with it all, "my designs" which I felt was a little unrealistic.

 

 

 

I agree with this and wondered these things myself, but my big question is: How did the Wakandans feel about never leaving Wakanda? Because in order to keep it a secret, it would have been necessary to have a country closed not only to immigration but emigration. Obviously those in the royal family could and did leave, as well as the spies that were planted in various countries, but the average, everyday citizen--probably not.

 

But I thought the acting and the costuming, setting, etc. were great. It was not my favorite Marvel movie, but I did like it and will definitely watch it again.

[mom2bee]

I haven't but my ds8 really wants to see it.  Do you think it's suitable - he's not especially sensitive.  I'm not that into Marvel myself, so I don't expect to be blown away, I am just hoping for watchable.

 

It should be okay for a kid who can take action movies in general. I am pretty sensitive to scary things and I have a big distaste for the sex-laced hyper passionate psuedo-romance that is in several action movies,

 

There wasn't much sexual-tension in the movie between the main romantic pair, though there are a couple of kisses (one for sure. I think there might be a second kiss.) but they aren't the deep, intense passionate kisses that some super hero movies have been known for, which I appreciated.

 

There is an 'intense' fight scene--close up wrestling/boxing type in which characters bleed from the face, but the cuts/wounds that characters get aren't super gory or focused on excessively.

 

Some body gives the middle finger in a prominent way, and then a bad guy  smuggles something valuable in his crotch, but they cut away from it and play the shot up for humor rather than anything else.

 

I think that those the big ones.

 

OH! There is a "bad" couple--the bad guy has a girl friend who he betrays in a fairly permanent way.

[KarenNC]

What happened to Eric between "that fateful night" and growing up? Who raised him, you know? It's mentioned that his mom is American, but there is never any word about her. He went to college, grad school and the military so....who watched over him, you know?

 

 

I expect we'll see a Killmonger movie in the future. I saw a comparison somewhere likening him to Magneto in terms of complexity of character.

 

To other questions:

Here's a nice article with the costume designer https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/23/movies/black-panther-afrofuturism-costumes-ruth-carter.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

 

I like to check CommonSense Media for reviews, but it will have very specific spoilers https://www.commonsensemedia.org/movie-reviews/black-panther

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by KarenNC

[mom2bee]

I agree with this and wondered these things myself, but my big question is: How did the Wakandans feel about never leaving Wakanda? Because in order to keep it a secret, it would have been necessary to have a country closed not only to immigration but emigration. Obviously those in the royal family could and did leave, as well as the spies that were planted in various countries, but the average, everyday citizen--probably not.

 

But I thought the acting and the costuming, setting, etc. were great. It was not my favorite Marvel movie, but I did like it and will definitely watch it again.

 

That's a fantastic question! I hadn't thought of it and it didn't even come up in the group discussion we had IRL after the movie.

 

Huh. I guess it varies by the individual, but I guess if you're raised with the idea that the borders are closed and you really want to get out, then you do what you have to in school to be made a spy so that you can get out of the country? Just a guess.

 

They didn't seem to want for much, as a society, but generation after generation after generation--I'm sure there were more than enough people who would've wanted to venture out.

 

I wonder if the comics bring up this topic? I haven't read BP comics since I was a child and I certainly don't remember them well.

[mom2bee]

I have not seen it. The twenty one year old college student saw it this afternoon. He hates "plot holes" and felt it was riddled with them. I don't know what to think. I really liked Age of Ultron and he did not. I really want to see Black Panther but only if I am not going to spend my time going, "But wait...that doesn't make sense!"

 

Then again, I loved the Indiana Jone's movies and they were so full of plot holes that it was comical. Yet, I still enjoyed them.

 

I don't think you'll be distracted from enjoying the movie. I'm pretty critical and I hate plot holes.

 

I wouldn't say that Black Panther was riddled with plot holes. It had a few plot holes, which may or may not be answered in later movies but its a comic-book Movie and most comic book movies aren't aspiring to reach the height of great story telling, so take it with a grain of salt.

[fraidycat]

I have not seen it. The twenty one year old college student saw it this afternoon. He hates "plot holes" and felt it was riddled with them. I don't know what to think. I really liked Age of Ultron and he did not. I really want to see Black Panther but only if I am not going to spend my time going, "But wait...that doesn't make sense!"

 

Then again, I loved the Indiana Jone's movies and they were so full of plot holes that it was comical. Yet, I still enjoyed them.

To be fair, it's a movie. There's only so much you info you put in a 2 hour action movie, without totally bogging it down into a narrated voice-over documentary with very little action.

 

It's entertainment, not education. I don't think we're supposed to get ALL the answers.

 

And if anyone stayed until the very, very bitter end of the credits.... there were extra scenes and a mention that BP is in another movie July 2019.

[mom2bee]

On a mildly kinda-related link,

 

I was told that Stan Lee was hospitalized recently, and I really hope that he gets well soon, and I hope that they go ahead and film cameo scenes for Stan Lee for several future Marvel movies. He's like 95 years old and it will feel so weird for Stan Lee to NOT pop up in random Marvel films, you know?

[wonderchica]

I love a complex villain, and goodness knows I love me some Michael B. Jordan. How does he make me cry in EVERYTHING?! Obviously his methods were wrong, but as far as motivation... I mean, he’s got some good points, ya know?

 

I really enjoyed al the characters in this, not one clunker. I especially liked the weird humor from Klaue and the other chief (?).

[FaithManor]

To be fair, it's a movie. There's only so much you info you put in a 2 hour action movie, without totally bogging it down into a narrated voice-over documentary with very little action.

 

It's entertainment, not education. I don't think we're supposed to get ALL the answers.

 

And if anyone stayed until the very, very bitter end of the credits.... there were extra scenes and a mention that BP is in another movie July 2019.

Oh, I know. I get that. I just do not like to pay current ticket prices for movies that are disjointed.

[mom2bee]

I love a complex villain, and goodness knows I love me some Michael B. Jordan. How does he make me cry in EVERYTHING?! Obviously his methods were wrong, but as far as motivation... I mean, he’s got some good points, ya know?

 

I really enjoyed al the characters in this, not one clunker. I especially liked the weird humor from Klaue and the other chief (?).

 

Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

The main bad guy felt fairly multi-faceted for an action movie and someone said that it felt almost like a Pixar movie in that there wasn't a big-bad villain inflicting pain for the sake of being evil, so much as the protagonist brings about their own problem through their own (in)action and they have to fix it by doing what they refused to do earlier.

 

I mean, yeah the "bringing your own problem about" is kinda spread across 2 generations but that was a good way to sum it up, I thought.

[melmichigan]

When she said, "helping another white guy" I wondered, "wait, how often does that happen? What does she mean?" 

The whole family went to see it last night, and even my 10yo thought it was great.  I think some of the plot holes exist if you don't really follow the Marvel universe, which now spans 18 movies. 

 

 

 

 

..."Helping another white guy" is the connection from the last movie, Captain America: Civil War, when Captain took Bucky to Wakanda to cure him of the brainwashing, you see him in the second post credit short. ...

 

I couldn't believe the number of people that left right when the credits started rolling-it's Marvel people!

 

ETA:  I figured out the spoiler!

Edited February 27, 2018 by melmichigan

[hopskipjump]

I loved it wholeheartedly and unabashedly. I do not care if there were plot holes anywhere - the entire movie was too awe-inspiring for me to even try to care. Gorgeous movie, inspiring movie, well-done movie! (I'll attribute some of the plot-holes that I'm ignoring to the fact that it's based on a comic book series. Plot holes abound in comics, a blind eye must sometimes be turned. :D )

 

So many book/comics-turned-movies get screwed up by Hollywood. The Last Airbender, for example. They shamelessly whitewashed the cast, mispronounced names (!!!), ignored how certain things in that "world" would actually happen.... and it was a mess. Or Eragon, the dragon book. Just remembering the film gives me the shivers, and not in a good way (not that the film was particularly horrible in and of itself... but if you'd read the books first... it was horrifying!)

 

So, to see the characters literally LEAP INTO LIFE... I'm giddy and hopeful for the future of books/comics being turned into movies and tv series.

 

Lupita Nyong'o needs to be in all the movies. I think I'd watch anything with her in acting it - she is a joy to watch.

 

And Michael B. Jordan? HOW does that kid not have an Oscar yet? He is amazing in every single thing he's in - such a thoughtful actor. Give that boy a trophy!!!

[wonderchica]

The whole family went to see it last night, and even my 10yo thought it was great. I think some of the plot holes exist if you don't really follow the Marvel universe, which now spans 18 movies.

 

SPOILER:

 

 

"Helping another white guy" is the connection from the last movie, Captain America: Civil War, when Captain took Bucky to Wakanda to cure him of the brainwashing, you see him in the second post credit short.

 

I couldn't believe the number of people that left right when the credits started rolling-it's Marvel people!

A lot left ours, too. I wonder how many people aren’t typically watching Marvel and just came out for Panther. I’ve also heard a lot of people are seeing it multiple times, so maybe they’ve already seen the credits.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Loved it.  Particularly the women.  They were awesome, but in a real way.  They didn't seem at all like they were trying to prove anything.  I loved the positive brother-sister relationship that was portrayed.  Shuri was amazing, just a shining character full of brilliance, humor, and level-headedness.

[Lady Marmalade]

 

 

Lupita Nyong'o needs to be in all the movies. I think I'd watch anything with her in acting it - she is a joy to watch.

 

And Michael B. Jordan? HOW does that kid not have an Oscar yet? He is amazing in every single thing he's in - such a thoughtful actor. Give that boy a trophy!!!

 

YES!!!!

[mom2bee]

We had to leave because the nine year old had to pee. Which is pretty much what always happens. We don't get to see post-credit scenes on family movies until they come out on video/streaming.

 

There is a technique to peeing during the first round of credits and making it back to your group in time for the mid-credits scene, which I had to employ at Black Panther. Mine is a little rusty, but I managed to make it back just as the first post credits scene was starting.

[Pam in CT]

re Lupito Nyong'o

...

 

Lupita Nyong'o needs to be in all the movies. I think I'd watch anything with her in acting it - she is a joy to watch.

 

And Michael B. Jordan? HOW does that kid not have an Oscar yet? He is amazing in every single thing he's in - such a thoughtful actor. Give that boy a trophy!!!

Oh.my.word.  We saw her a few years ago in Eclipsed.  Could.not.have.been a more radically -- diametrically-- different role.  A Marvel, indeed.

 

 

 

There is a technique to peeing during the first round of credits and making it back to your group in time for the mid-credits scene, which I had to employ at Black Panther. Mine is a little rusty, but I managed to make it back just as the first post credits scene was starting.

:lol:

 

 

 

I'm dying to talk about it, but I really can't without spoilers -- too much of my response is tied in to the plot, and the isolation of the storyline from the regular Marvel universe, and the (several) psychological narrative arc(s) and the tension between that and the usual Marvel binary good/evil dichotomy...

 

I loved it.  

 

With the teensiest quibble that there wasn't QUITE enough connection through the first half between the set-up scene with the boy (even just a close-up on the jewelry, would have done the trick).  Other than that,   :001_wub:

[IfIOnly]

This is the only movie we have ever supported on its opening weekend. We treated our whole family of 7. Thankful for Costco discounted tickets! We've ALL only been a few times to a movie period unless it's at our discount theater a few months after debuting. Though we enjoy Marvel movies, we are mostly supporting the black community, especially with this being black history month. Love this timing of the release, and we thought the story and its characters were wonderful. 

 

Just have to share this video of a class of students finding out their school was taking them to see the Black Panther movie. Awesome.

 

 

 

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Culture/students-erupt-dancing-finding-theyre-black-panther/story?id=52807213

Edited February 27, 2018 by IfIOnly

[BarbecueMom]

With the teensiest quibble that there wasn't QUITE enough connection through the first half between the set-up scene with the boy (even just a close-up on the jewelry, would have done the trick). Other than that, :001_wub:

I think I read that the first cut was over four hours long. The parts I felt were "missing" from Killmonger's story were likely the ones that ended up on the cutting room floor for time's sake.

 

It is hard to do an origin story with a new villain plus worldbuilding that can stand alone, ten years and three phases into a film franchise. And not include any prior characters (except John Watson, I mean, not-Coulson, I mean Everett Ross). For all of that, it was exceptionally well done and enjoyable. After thinking about it, I do think seeing Captain America: Civil War first does add an extra layer to the story, specifically when it comes to the concepts of revenge and holding secrets, but it wasn't required.

 

And add me to the list of those who loved Shuri. I want her in every Marvel movie. And maybe showing up on Agents of SHIELD too (Shuri + Fitzsimmons saving the world with science, yes please!). Totally not happening, but I can dream.

[Pam in CT]

I think I read that the first cut was over four hours long. The parts I felt were "missing" from Killmonger's story were likely the ones that ended up on the cutting room floor for time's sake.

 

It is hard to do an origin story with a new villain plus worldbuilding that can stand alone, ten years and three phases into a film franchise. And not include any prior characters (except John Watson, I mean, not-Coulson, I mean Everett Ross). For all of that, it was exceptionally well done and enjoyable. After thinking about it, I do think seeing Captain America: Civil War first does add an extra layer to the story, specifically when it comes to the concepts of revenge and holding secrets, but it wasn't required.

 

And add me to the list of those who loved Shuri. I want her in every Marvel movie. And maybe showing up on Agents of SHIELD too (Shuri + Fitzsimmons saving the world with science, yes please!). Totally not happening, but I can dream.

 

 

Oh interesting.  Yes, perhaps if there's one early one to review, that's the one

 

 

... particularly given the extra scene amidst the credits...

 

 

... but Panther is SOOOO different in the conception of the adversary character and SOOOOO less binary in worldview.  

 

Well, maybe that's not a BUT, maybe that's an AND, and is further reason to see the two back-to-back.

 

 

My 15 yo is DYING to see the full 4 hour cut, lol.

[mom2bee]

My 15 yo is DYING to see the full 4 hour cut, lol.

YES! Oh my gosh! I have to check and see if Marvel ever does Extended editions of their DVDs/movies. I would totally pay for the extended edition and yes, I would watch all 4hrs of the movie in one sitting.

 

I own the extended editions of Lord of The Rings and I only watch them in marathon mode.

 

 

[BarbecueMom]

 

 

Oh interesting.  Yes, perhaps if there's one early one to review, that's the one

 

 

... particularly given the extra scene amidst the credits...

 

 

... but Panther is SOOOO different in the conception of the adversary character and SOOOOO less binary in worldview.  

 

Well, maybe that's not a BUT, maybe that's an AND, and is further reason to see the two back-to-back.

 

 

My 15 yo is DYING to see the full 4 hour cut, lol.

 

Yes, they are very different movies, but they literally take place within a week or two of each other.  Spider Man: Homecoming, which came out soon after Civil War, actually takes place months later.

 

Regarding that...

 

I suspect that the person buying Stark's Avengers Tower in Spider Man is actually T'Challa.  Who else would use a tower with a landing pad in the middle of New York City but the guy with a cloaked ship?  It would be a convenient, secure (as long as Loki and Ultron aren't involved), tech-ready location to meet with organizations or gov't leaders in their goal of using their knowledge and technology to help others in the world.

 

 

Now I'm wondering if the 4-hour cut thing was a different movie.  There are so many coming out in a short time frame that I'm second guessing myself.  Either way, I suspect editing removed a good chunk of that character's nonessential background details.

[happi duck]

I finally saw BP last night and already look forward to seeing it again!

 

It was fantastic!!

[Lady Marmalade]

Yes, they are very different movies, but they literally take place within a week or two of each other.  Spider Man: Homecoming, which came out soon after Civil War, actually takes place months later.

 

Regarding that...

 

Now I'm wondering if the 4-hour cut thing was a different movie.  There are so many coming out in a short time frame that I'm second guessing myself.  Either way, I suspect editing removed a good chunk of that character's nonessential background details.

 

Ooooh, I totally love your theory about the tower!