I need a verbal response for this (disability related)

[Alittledeal]

I find it incredibly bizzare that anybody would find it weird to ask if there are toilets in an establishment. I work in a shop and must get asked at least 30 times a day, "Excuse me, do you have toilets in here?" My only response is to direct them to said toilets. It would NEVER occur to me to look for an aide of any sort.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Alittledeal

[Guest]

I didn't read that here at all as being "disdain" toward any group or person. I think she comes at this from her own teaching perspective and set of experiences for helping people navigate the public world. She does, in fact, seem to have similar experience, but her students are from ESL, which is the major difference, but similar context. She is simply disagreeing with the OP, which has nothing to do with "disdain" for special needs. She has pointed out the need to educate the group ahead of the visit on sign usage and reading. I can see from her perspective that is one of several valid responses to this scenario from the OP. I don't get why it has to degenerate into a personal attack.

There is a very long history of posts to support my assertion.

[maize]

You state your student asked if there was a bathroom. That is not the same meaning as ' where is the bathroom ',and its not common phrasing.

 

I have similar goals when I teach basic literacy or esl. Do not assume the library info desk is staffed by a nonliteral person, or a person who is familiar with american euphisms.

 

Bathroom and exit signs are basic needs that are taught before field trip. Did you teach where to look for signs, show what the signs look like, and then supervise as they practiced? I teach if its an emergency ask, if its not look for signs. Also, prefield trip info includes where the bathroom is in the building, and what to do if there is an emergency, includng where to meet. Basic needs are.taught before field trip for health and safety reasons. Its not appropriate to teach them on the fly for those reasons. Where to find different typrs of info is fine to leave for the field trip,.but putting your learner in an embarrasing position or making it unsafe for them in event of emergency is not appropriate...please go back and talk to your trainer about this. My agency would never allow your lesson plan to proceed.

 

I agree with other posters, if you aren't going to preteach basics, you need to give the staff a heads up, and follow up with a handwritten thank you note.

"Is there a restroom here" is a totally normal way to ask, I use it all the time in places where yes of course I know there will be a restroom.

 

 

I find it strange that you take it so literally and do not think your reaction is common. I've never once had someone blink an eye at that phrasing or assume I must be intellectually impaired in some way because I use it. They answer by telling me where the restroom is.

[Daria]

There is a very long history of posts to support my assertion.

 

I have never heard Kinsa speaking ill of someone who is not her ex-BIL or his lawyer, so I'm sure there is a good reason for her to say that.  

 

However, if you'd like confirmation, you could check out Heigh Ho's profile.  

[barnwife]

Thanks to this thread, I now feel a need to find a way to use the word gobsmacked IRL. I haven't heard/used it in quite a while.

[gardenmom5]

I have never heard Kinsa speaking ill of someone who is not her ex-BIL or his lawyer, so I'm sure there is a good reason for her to say that.  

 

However, if you'd like confirmation, you could check out Heigh Ho's profile.  

 

read the profile. .. read some recent posts . ...made me think of the closing monologue from lake woebegone days ...

 

 

there was another poster with a rep for not understanding and having a lack of compassion for others in a particular situation.... . reality seems to have taken care of that, and she seems to have a much different view.  ultimately time will tell.  reality checks can be very harsh.  I wouldn't with them on anyone.  

[regentrude]

I think a person who takes the question "Is there a bathroom?" literally as a question to be answered with yes or no, instead of as a way of asking for directions to the bathroom may quite possibly have special needs as communication is concerned.

Edited August 5, 2017 by regentrude

[frogger]

 

 

I should note, that most of the people this happens with are people acting in a professional capacity, where answering questions from community members is actually part of their job.  For example, we recently had an incident when one of my students approached the information desk at the library to ask if there was a restroom, and the librarian turned away and called the directions to me.  My student was understandably embarrassed to have the entire library know about her bathroom needs.  

I would like to come up with a verbal response that makes it clear that people need to address the person talking to them.  Any suggestions?

 

 

Wow! I'm trying to come up with something that's not a rant but this is just hard for me to wrap my mind around.  I have taken my brother with Down Syndrome all around and yes, people sometimes direct discussion towards me but why they would yell across a room when the person who asked them is right there well, I must confess I'm flabbergasted in this case. 

[frogger]

Ok, now that I have read the rest of the thread it is obvious that people like making excuses for others. Many of you are much more patient than I and now it makes me think I need to come up with a response in case something similar happens.

 

If the person at the information desk misunderstood the question it wouldn't matter at all. She would answer the question with, "Yes." This would cue the questioner to clarify. The fact that she was giving directions to someone farther away tells me that yes, she did understand the question and thought the questioner not capable of understanding her response.

 

I will join the gobsmacked crew.

Edited August 5, 2017 by frogger

[gardenmom5]

I think a person who takes the question "Is there a bathroom?" literally as a question to be answered with yes or no, instead of as a way of asking for directions to the bathroom may quite possibly have special needs as communication is concerned.

 

or is an uptight english teacher/grammar snob who goes around sanctimoniously correcting other people's english outside of the classroom. 

 

I had one who would respond to "can i.. . " questions with "I don't know, can you?" (he wanted us to say "may i  . . . ?"

[Tanaqui]

The end result of all that "I don't know, can you?" is that when I speak to young children (and not so young children) I hear a lot of things like "May you get me a glass of water?" and "May you take us to the playground?"

 

As a descriptivist, I think this is fascinating - and it serves those other people right!

[Jean in Newcastle]

The original question (which was a good one) was how to get people to talk directly to someone with disabilities.  Some seem to be answering "They shouldn't have to for xyz reasons."  I don't buy that as a reasonable answer.  It doesn't matter why the person doesn't want to talk to someone with disabilities whether it is prejudice, fear, or some other reason.  And no, I don't find "They shouldn't have to because the person who doesn't want to talk to a disabled person is good hearted but clueless" to be reasonable.  And I certainly don't find "They shouldn't have to because disabled people shouldn't ever ask questions or talk to anyone who is not their guide" to be reasonable either. 

[Ivey]

The idea that Daria or her student did anything wrong in this situation is absolutely ridiculous. I worked the information desk at my university's library, and students asked me for directions to the restrooms (sometimes phrased as "Is there a restroom here?") every. single. day. Come on, people. 

 

Daria, I don't think there is a perfect phrase or easy solution for dealing with these situations when you're across the room. I tend to be a jerk (feigning confusion: "Oh, were you speaking to me? I didn't ask where the restroom is? Sarah, did you ask? Why did you tell me and not Sarah?"), which I don't recommend. Unfortunately, I think you're going to have to check in with your student, make sure she's okay, assure her (in front of the librarian) that she did nothing wrong, and then educate the librarian about how to communicate with individuals with disabilities. If this student is confident and capable enough, it might also be worth arming her with a few phrases for when this type of thing comes up again. "I asked you the question, you can answer me directly" would get the point across nicely. 

[wintermom]

This summer I spent a lot of time teaching community orientation and travel skills to a wonderful group of teenagers with intellectual and developmental disabilities.

 

One thing that happens over and over again when we are in public is that people speak to me, even if one of my students asks a question.  This is, not surprisingly, more common when the individual I'm supporting has a visible disability such as Down syndrome or using a wheelchair, than if their disability is invisible.

 

 

Sorry that your teens are dealing with this lack of respect or courtesy. One thing that might help, is if you are not easily recognized as "the staff person." Do you have to wear a uniform? Can you put a sweater over it when entering new places?  It's just seems far to easy for people to see YOU as the contact point, if they are calling to you from across the room.  Maybe let the student enter a new place one at a time, with you entering alone. 

[Daria]

Sorry that your teens are dealing with this lack of respect or courtesy. One thing that might help, is if you are not easily recognized as "the staff person." Do you have to wear a uniform? Can you put a sweater over it when entering new places? It's just seems far to easy for people to see YOU as the contact point, if they are calling to you from across the room. Maybe let the student enter a new place one at a time, with you entering alone.

No uniforms, our students wear uniforms in the school year but this was summer.

 

I assume she noticed us when we walked in, and registered that 2/4 of our group had visible disabilities and kind of kept track. This particular library is set up like the spokes of a wheel, and I was hanging out in the middle where I could see all the sections and be easy to find. There are some displays of brochures and new titles there that I was looking at.

 

But, honestly, this isn't about my behavior. It isn't shameful to need a support person, and one shouldn't have to hide that fact to be treated with respect.

[Daria]

I am pretty confident that I provide good care to the young people I serve, although of course I make mistakes.

 

However, the reality is that there are people providing direct care who make mistakes and those who routinely treat the people in their care poorly.

 

When people try to justify the rudeness by pointing to my behavior, are you implying that if I was doing a bad job, it would be alright to mistreat them?

 

If so, would you accept this logic applied to your own relationship? For example, if your elderly parent was served poorly by a nurse, would you think that justified the doctor also being rude?

[Lecka]

I am not defending this person, but I think if you had another interaction with the same person, it could go better. A lot of people do not realize, and then when they realize, they change their behavior.

 

This person should have known better, but didn't, but a lot of the time it is just not being exposed.

 

It is not how things should be, but I think it is easy to find people in general to be difficult, and I think it is better to try to keep in mind that even people who do poorly one time can do better a next time.

 

Sometimes people I know to be kind and well-meaning will do this, and it is just -- something where they don't know. It is very "know better do better."

 

Not that it is fun to have to educate other people, but I think it is inevitable.

 

I also have grave concerns about learned helplessness and how this circumstance feeds into it.

[wintermom]

No uniforms, our students wear uniforms in the school year but this was summer.

 

I assume she noticed us when we walked in, and registered that 2/4 of our group had visible disabilities and kind of kept track. This particular library is set up like the spokes of a wheel, and I was hanging out in the middle where I could see all the sections and be easy to find. There are some displays of brochures and new titles there that I was looking at.

 

But, honestly, this isn't about my behavior. It isn't shameful to need a support person, and one shouldn't have to hide that fact to be treated with respect.

 

I'm not saying it's your behaviour, but if you aren't as present and obvious, then the staff has to deal with the teen, right? I do this with my own children. I send them to the cashier and stay farther away, so that there is no obvious adult. It's pretty natural to start talking to the person who makes the most eye contact. Most teens and children aren't doing this as much, I notice, my own dc included. 

 

Or you could have your phone in hand and be "texting" so that you aren't "available" to be questioned. I'm just brain-storming ways to make it less easy for people to gravitate to you, and more obvious that they need to direct their attention elsewhere. You did mention that this is occurring multiple times, correct? So a slightly different tactic might be needed. Not every single staff member is an "idiot" or intentionally rude. But humans follow the pathways of least resistance, and what seems easiest is what most people do. 

 

You see the exact same behaviour with people who aren't fluent in a language. It's way easier to answer the person who understands quickly and responds, than repeat yourself, try to rephrase your sentence, ensure understanding, etc. 

Edited August 5, 2017 by wintermom

[frogger]

I am not defending this person, but I think if you had another interaction with the same person, it could go better. A lot of people do not realize, and then when they realize, they change their behavior.

 

This person should have known better, but didn't, but a lot of the time it is just not being exposed.

 

It is not how things should be, but I think it is easy to find people in general to be difficult, and I think it is better to try to keep in mind that even people who do poorly one time can do better a next time.

 

Sometimes people I know to be kind and well-meaning will do this, and it is just -- something where they don't know. It is very "know better do better."

 

Not that it is fun to have to educate other people, but I think it is inevitable.

 

I also have grave concerns about learned helplessness and how this circumstance feeds into it.

I think this is why Daria asked for a good response. She does want to educate and having a ready response is easier than coming up with something that will be informative and not taking as rude. Something that people will accept.

 

She was not standing close making eye contact.

 

We know the question was not misunderstood because it was answered but not to the correct person.

 

The more I think about it the more I would let the teen use the bathroom because she is already embarrassed enough and then politly inform the help desk that if an idividual asks a question you usually direct your answer to the person asking. Unless there is a language barrier and you are using an interpreter. But somehow the wording that sounds polite is eluding me partly because it seems so stinking obvious to me.

 

 

I get frustrated with adult's attitudes of dismissiveness. I watched my 10 year old son get crowded out of a self checkout twice. I taught him to say, "Excuse me while I check out." He already had his items on the table and had pushed the start button when an adult walked up next to him and started scanning items. So he moved to another one and it almost happened again! Then the lady was like, "Oh excuse me" Can adults literally not see anything less than 5'2"? I'm not very tolerant of attitudes of dismissiveness towards people younger, older, or just different than you. So I said nothing because my on the spot remarks can be somewhat snarky.

 

So I do think it is wise to come up with responses ahead of time. When you have time you can think of responses that they can hopefully learn from and not just get defensive.

[Laura Corin]

People do this when I'm out with my mum. I don't say anything. I just turn away from the speaker and towards my mum. Then the speaker has to talk to her because my face is not available.