fairfarmhand Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Someone mentioned in one of the college threads that in other countries, students go straight from high school to medical school. Initially, I like that thought. Four years less of college expenses. Four years for students to be earning money. What am I missing? Why doesn't the US work that way? Would it be better for say, vets, nurses, doctors, etc. to move straight into the training that they need for their job? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedicMom Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Nurses do. I have yet to meet a doctor who thought their undergraduate degree was worth much. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) As I understand it, it isn't exactly a "skip undergrad" program. It is a 6 year program and often has an added year longer for residency (compared to the US), so it isn't a "4 years and you are done" deal. Edited June 4, 2017 by DawnM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 I actually like my doctors having more maturity to them (that the extra 4 years provides in "life lessons") and I also like the thought that they can think about something other than medicine (aka, they have a deeper education in something - like med schools, I don't care what that topic is). I don't think many high schools provide that bit anymore. Then too, for my guy, those undergrad years were simply fun - something I'm glad he got to experience before life sends a super busy "work" schedule his way. YMMV I don't care to see a change made. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingersmom Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) Nurses do. h. Really? My daughter is a 4 year nursing program and will graduate with a BSN. There is a reason they are phasing out 2 year community college nursing programs. Edited June 4, 2017 by gingersmom 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Here in Colombia Medical School is 5 years of school followed by one year of mandatory rural service. Hopefully a Residency in some specially after that. Sent from my SM-G355M using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedicMom Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Really? My daughter is a 4 year nursing program and will graduate with a BSN. There is a reason they are phasing out 2 year community college programs. Nurses move straight into the nursing program, it's not a graduate degree. In NYS at least they are not phasing out the associate's degree at all(diplomas of nursing, yes). Even the BSN programs people take nursing classes their first semester. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 My understanding is that it's not really jumping right into medical school, but declaring a medical school goal which puts them on a very specific path immediately after high school. I could be wrong though. I've also heard of countries that have three-year high schools and then a two-year high school add-on, which would actually be more like a junior college. Maybe a medical school path would come after that? In any event, you do wonder how much time you'd save if you cut out all of the liberal arts stuff and just stuck to courses that are pertinent to the degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingersmom Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Even the BSN programs people take nursing classes their first semester. In my experience, the majority of schools are a four year program with either a Freshman Admitance or a Junior Admitance after fulfilling your prerequisite courses. The only schools that I know doing nursing classes freshman year are co-op programs which are also Freshman Admit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 My understanding is that it's not really jumping right into medical school, but declaring a medical school goal which puts them on a very specific path immediately after high school. I could be wrong though. I've also heard of countries that have three-year high schools and then a two-year high school add-on, which would actually be more like a junior college. Maybe a medical school path would come after that? In any event, you do wonder how much time you'd save if you cut out all of the liberal arts stuff and just stuck to courses that are pertinent to the degree. See for my dh, his college degree is in Civil Engineering. Because they wanted to graduate the engineers in 4 years and prepare them for the field, engineering majors did not take humanities type courses. I think they did have to take English 101 and English 102, but no histories or anything else. And all engineers graduated with a minor in math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 In my experience, the majority of schools are a four year program with either a Freshman Admitance or a Junior Admitance after fulfilling your prerequisite courses. The only schools that I know doing nursing classes freshman year are co-op programs which are also Freshman Admit. Not around here. It's a highly structured program that you have to do in sequence. To graduate in four years, you must start the first semester of your freshman year and take the courses in sequence. There are specific general education courses required and if you don't complete them, you delay your upper level nursing education by up to one full year (the cohort starts in May at one state university, another state university has two cohorts - one that starts in May and another in January). For example, at one of our state universities, BSN students must take the following courses as part of their general education requirements: Chemistry I & II Psychology Nutrition Sociology Ethics Anatomy & Physiology I & II Human Microbiology Human Growth & Development All of these courses directly relate to the practice of nursing. These courses are prerequisites for the upper level nursing classes, which start junior year. They must have all of their general education courses (math, history, literature, etc.) finished before they begin their upper level courses because they simply will have no time to get them done otherwise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroe1 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 To begin with, one cannot compare the European and American high school experience anyway. "O" levels and "A" level students are much higher levels than our typical high school in America, even though one level is more academic and one more trade. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 In Germany, student go right into medical school. It is extremely competetive. They must have top grades for the high school leaving exam which is at a much higher academic level than the average US high school diploma (think all APs, including two foreign languages for 10 and 8 years, math through calculus, three sciences...) As a consequence, there are no vast general ed requirements as they are common in US colleges; students entering university begin to specialize in their degree area immediately. Physics majors for example take math and physics - no required history and composition courses; that has been taught in high school. A medical course of study takes 6 years and 3 months.The last year is hands on practical training; 16 weeks each in internal medicine, surgery, general medicine. Doing the work for a doctoral degree is not required; you can be certified to practice medicine as a physician without a doctorate. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesje22000 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 What Regentrude says. But some specialisms take a lot of time. 6-10 years of studies in total is not uncommon in the medical field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Nurses do. I have yet to meet a doctor who thought their undergraduate degree was worth much. I enjoyed college and think it was very worthwhile. I wouldn't have been ready for medical school as it currently is structured straight out of high school. I knew that I wanted to be a doctor very early in life but even so I was glad to have the chance to also study English and Theater and Philosophy and Art in college. And to mature as a person. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) One of my Danish acquaintances is a med school student. She seemed baffled by the idea that one could spend four years tailoring your education for med school and then end up scrambling for a Plan B if you do not get in. She has been able to pause her studies twice for maternity leave, and I have wondered if that would be possible in the USA. ETA On the other hand, I have known several Danish kids who have redone the last two years of high school because they did not get into the desired university program. Specialization begins in high school, and once you are in college changing your major often equates with starting over in a new program. Pros and cons. Edited June 5, 2017 by Penguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 In Germany, student go right into medical school. It is extremely competetive. They must have top grades for the high school leaving exam which is at a much higher academic level than the average US high school diploma (think all APs, including two foreign languages for 10 and 8 years, math through calculus, three sciences...) As a consequence, there are no vast general ed requirements as they are common in US colleges; students entering university begin to specialize in their degree area immediately. Physics majors for example take math and physics - no required history and composition courses; that has been taught in high school. A medical course of study takes 6 years and 3 months.The last year is hands on practical training; 16 weeks each in internal medicine, surgery, general medicine. Doing the work for a doctoral degree is not required; you can be certified to practice medicine as a physician without a doctorate. thank you for this. This is the info I wanted. So for the us to adopt this method of study the whole landscape of public education would have to shift dramatically. I don't see that happening any time soon. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janeway Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Someone mentioned in one of the college threads that in other countries, students go straight from high school to medical school. Initially, I like that thought. Four years less of college expenses. Four years for students to be earning money. What am I missing? Why doesn't the US work that way? Would it be better for say, vets, nurses, doctors, etc. to move straight into the training that they need for their job? A lot of schools have a two year to med school programs now. I think they should. I think the whole bachelors degree and then med school is not the best idea. IF a student is so smart, smart enough to be a doctor, two years of undergrad should be enough to prepare for med school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 A lot of schools have a two year to med school programs now. I think they should. I think the whole bachelors degree and then med school is not the best idea. IF a student is so smart, smart enough to be a doctor, two years of undergrad should be enough to prepare for med school. FWIW, med school admissions is trending toward MORE time before med school, not less. It's common for kids to take a couple of years off prior to entering (after getting their bachelor's) rather than just one - or none. I'm told they like seeing more maturity in their students - more life lessons learned via experiences and more certainty that medicine is the way they want to go, esp since it's a pretty darn huge life commitment. Average age at matriculation is 24/25 right now. Most kids graduate from college at 21/22 if they did the traditional 4 years. https://www.aamc.org/download/321468/data/factstablea6.pdf I enjoyed college and think it was very worthwhile. I wouldn't have been ready for medical school as it currently is structured straight out of high school. I knew that I wanted to be a doctor very early in life but even so I was glad to have the chance to also study English and Theater and Philosophy and Art in college. And to mature as a person. Thanks for posting. I'm glad my thoughts (and my guy's thoughts - plus his friends'/peers') is not that unusual. I was wondering... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) Someone mentioned in one of the college threads that in other countries, students go straight from high school to medical school. Initially, I like that thought. Four years less of college expenses. Four years for students to be earning money My home country is direct admit to school of medicine and very competitive. MBBS (bachelors) - 5 years MO (medical officer, compulsory) - 2 years Then they work and go for a masters in the area they want to specialize in e.g radiology, cardio, ENT. So it is a long path to specialization or a 7 year path to becoming a general/family practitioner. Dentist however is a four year degree and most of my friends either work in a practice or open their own after graduating. Some specialize after. ETA: An approximate correlation is that what is generally covered in public (non-competitive) high school here is covered by 10th grade in my home country. 11th and 12th grade is for specializing. A student aiming for medical schools would be taking math (calculus level), biology, chemistry, physics (calculus based level). Someone who is intend on engineering might take physics, chemistry and two maths instead of math and biology. The second math is at around MVC/Linear Algebra level. Edited June 5, 2017 by Arcadia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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