Mizzou (MU) is closing 3 more Dorms

[Lanny]

This is the aftermath of events there during November 2015. Not good for the students there, or the faculty and other staff.

https://heatst.com/culture-wars/mizzou-shutters-three-more-dorms-as-enrollment-plummets-after-race-protests/

[Vida Winter]

Bringing the total to seven dorms.

[Sneezyone]

Students and parents vote with their feet and $$. I hope they get their shit together. Note: tensions remain high because these incidents continued into 2016. https://www.google.com/amp/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_57ec2019e4b082aad9b8db39/amp

Edited April 9, 2017 by Sneezyone

[bibiche]

Wow, there sure are some vile comments on that article.  

[maize]

Wow, there sure are some vile comments on that article.

Never read the comments.

 

Doesn't matter what the article is, there will be vile comments.

[Guest]

Interesting...

[elegantlion]

Our governor also slashed higher education budgets for the entire state. Mizzou was one of the schools with you the largest cuts. Enrollment may be down, but closing dorms is probably just as much a budgetary move as an enrollment issue.

[regentrude]

Our governor also slashed higher education budgets for the entire state. Mizzou was one of the schools with you the largest cuts. Enrollment may be down, but closing dorms is probably just as much a budgetary move as an enrollment issue.

 

This.

[Guest]

Echo babyboom is over.

[plansrme]

Why is everyone so reluctant to blame the race relations issue for Mizzou's decline in enrollment?  It's budget (though I am unclear on how closing seven dorms helps with the budget--most schools make money on their dorms); it's the end of the baby boom (and the overall decline in college attendance is not nearly as dramatic as it is at Mizzou).  Why can't the problem really be that parents and students are voting with their feet?  And perhaps the Missouri legislature is voting with its budget allocations.  I wouldn't want MY kid to go to Mizzou after what's happened, and I suspect that is true of parents and students on both sides of the issues.  Like the advertising slogan, "We know you have a choice when you fly/rent a car/stay in a hotel/go to college; thank you for choosing Delta/Hertz/Hilton/Mizzou."  And for what it's worth, there was a slight chance that my oldest could have gone to Mizzou once upon a time, and we have a friend who is a current student there.  I would, however, strongly discourage my next college-bound kid from Mizzou.

 

[Guest]

Its like Columbia with rape or Penn State with athletic coach misconduct. Its not widespread enough that one would boycott if it didn't affect one's student and it was a good option otherwise, especially since the head honcho resigned. All of the other reasons plus economy are why peole choose other than a flagship campus for freshmen..here we are seeing top students do the CC then transfer route. Economy is number one reason. when economy is down, people stay closer to home and they pick majors more likely to lead to a job. Mizzou is not located in the two major cities, and it is not the top public state campus for engineering and although it is for nursing, there are other excellent options.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Heigh Ho

[bibiche]

Why is everyone so reluctant to blame the race relations issue for Mizzou's decline in enrollment? It's budget (though I am unclear on how closing seven dorms helps with the budget--most schools make money on their dorms); it's the end of the baby boom (and the overall decline in college attendance is not nearly as dramatic as it is at Mizzou). Why can't the problem really be that parents and students are voting with their feet? And perhaps the Missouri legislature is voting with its budget allocations. I wouldn't want MY kid to go to Mizzou after what's happened, and I suspect that is true of parents and students on both sides of the issues. Like the advertising slogan, "We know you have a choice when you fly/rent a car/stay in a hotel/go to college; thank you for choosing Delta/Hertz/Hilton/Mizzou." And for what it's worth, there was a slight chance that my oldest could have gone to Mizzou once upon a time, and we have a friend who is a current student there. I would, however, strongly discourage my next college-bound kid from Mizzou.

I'm afraid I don't know an awful lot about the situation there. I mean, I have read the articles, but since I am not in the area perhaps there is something I am missing. Would you mind answering a couple questions? First of all, what are the "both sides" of the issues? And why would you strongly discourage your child from attending?

[elegantlion]

Why is everyone so reluctant to blame the race relations issue for Mizzou's decline in enrollment?  

 

I am not reluctant to blame the race relations issue on enrollment declines, however, the budget cuts have been topic of conversation across the state since announced in January. Enrollment is down at my university as well, which has not had race issues. I don't have numbers across the state, so I can't speak to it being a state wide issue. As mentioned above, however, it may be that there are fewer college students and some are staying closer to home attending regional state schools instead of the state flagship school. . 

 

Here's an article that describes some of the cuts. 

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/politics/greitens-state-funding-cuts-add-to-university-of-missouri-s/article_3c53d777-ec02-53c3-a4a7-b0076a2861c6.html

 

 

I've also been pursuing the Mizzou website and noticed how some departments are seemingly being proactive about addressing the racial tensions. 

[Lanny]

I read that Melissa Click who was at the center of that  is now at Gonzaga University.   I noticed that, because when I was in High School I had a teacher who'd gone to Gonzaga. Here's a link:

http://www.kansascity.com/news/state/missouri/article99689332.html

 

ETA: One additional result of all of that may be that fewer Recruiters will visit the Mizzou campus.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Lanny

[Sneezyone]

I always thought of Mizzou as an affordable, mid-tier option. Regardless of my personal preferences, we're exposing DD to large, small, urban, rural, public and private institutions nationwide. To lose 4K incoming students in a year or two is pretty striking and the reports about student interactions, not just black students either, are worrisome. This was one institution that we'd actually considered visiting in our sweep through Arkansas, Missouri, Kansas and Texas (we have family/friends in these areas) so I'm watching with interest.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Sneezyone

[bibiche]

Why are they losing so many students? I sense there is a backlash from the racial tensions, but who are they losing? Black students not wanting to go to a university where there seems to be significant racism I can understand. But why are the white students not enrolling? This is what I find perplexing and I hope someone can enlighten me, because I gather there is a lot of antipathy, but not because the white students are upset about the racism experienced by the black students. Is that correct?

Edited April 9, 2017 by bibiche

[plansrme]

First of all, what are the "both sides" of the issues? And why would you strongly discourage your child from attending?

 

If I believe the black students, then racism is prevalent across campus.  Who wants that?

If I do not believe the black students, then the administration and the Board of Trustees is pandering to a group of mouthy, entitled minority students.  Likewise, who wants that?

 

There are hundreds of schools that can give most students exactly what Mizzou does; why buy the four-year experience that comes with that much baggage?  Mizzou screwed up.  "Which way" it screwed up is not something I am going to debate with anyone, but I doubt that I am alone in thinking they screwed up pretty badly.

[regentrude]

There are hundreds of schools that can give most students exactly what Mizzou does; why buy the four-year experience that comes with that much baggage? 

 

Finances. For students in state, it is the most uni (in many subjects) the least amount of money can buy.

[regentrude]

  And perhaps the Missouri legislature is voting with its budget allocations. 

 

The budget cut has to do with stupid decisions the legislature made in the past that dramatically reduced tax revenue.

MO legislators passed a law in 2015 to abolish a kind of corporate tax. As expected (and as shown abundantly in other states that tried this), tax revenue plummeted. The house budget committee boss is admitting that, "had they known, they would have voted differently".  :banghead:   

 

Mizzou is one of four campuses of the University of Missouri system. The budget cuts affect all campuses and other institutions of higher education. Because they still don't understand that investment in education is what gets jobs into the state - not cutting the corporate tax which hasn't worked anywhere. 

Edited April 9, 2017 by regentrude

[Guest]

I read that Melissa Click who was at the center of that  is now at Gonzaga University.   I noticed that, because when I was in High School I had a teacher who'd gone to Gonzaga. Here's a link:

http://www.kansascity.com/news/state/missouri/article99689332.html

 

ETA: One additional result of all of that may be that fewer Recruiters will visit the Mizzou campus.

 

I can't believe she got hired anywhere. So many awesome professors out there and they chose HER.  :ack2:  She obviously has a following that agreed with her actions I guess. 

[Riverland]

I can't believe she got hired anywhere. So many awesome professors out there and they chose HER.  :ack2:  She obviously has a following that agreed with her actions I guess. 

 

I know a young lady who graduated from Gonzaga. I've known her since she was very young. Seeing how she changed during her time at Gonzaga, well, I'm not surprised they would hire someone like Click.

[Sneezyone]

I know a young lady who graduated from Gonzaga. I've known her since she was very young. Seeing how she changed during her time at Gonzaga, well, I'm not surprised they would hire someone like Click.

 

My cousin is a Zag too. He's a staunch conservative republican and his dad/my uncle was a LEO, now DHS SES employee. Have you been there?

Edited April 9, 2017 by Sneezyone

[Lanny]

I can't believe she got hired anywhere. So many awesome professors out there and they chose HER.  :ack2:  She obviously has a following that agreed with her actions I guess. 

 

Yes, they are apparently common in universities. Drexel has one that was in the news a couple of weeks ago.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/pa-professor-facing-backlash-tweet-soldier-article-1.3014282

 

The Alumni of some of those schools may find their job prospects more limited in the future. 

[Sneezyone]

I can't believe she got hired anywhere. So many awesome professors out there and they chose HER.  :ack2:  She obviously has a following that agreed with her actions I guess. 

 

Or maybe she just needed a job and they were willing to give her a chance. It is a Jesuit institution.

[Sneezyone]

Yes, they are apparently common in universities. Drexel has one that was in the news a couple of weeks ago.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/pa-professor-facing-backlash-tweet-soldier-article-1.3014282

 

The Alumni of some of those schools may find their job prospects more limited in the future. 

 

That is crazy talk. That's like saying OJ Simpson limits the prospects of USC grads. They are all fine, high-quality institutions with excellent reputations and stellar students/graduates.

[prairiewindmomma]

Most of the drop from Mizzou's enrollment has been correlated to a drop in grad student numbers and a drop in out-of-state students.

They cut grad school student benefits.

They dramatically decreased scholarship money.

 

 

[Guest]

But why are the white students not enrolling?

Economics. Better scholarship and merit money elsewhere. Even here in NY there is more money available to attract stem students to study at suny schools and take a job in state.

[bibiche]

Economics. Better scholarship and merit money elsewhere. Even here in NY there is more money available to attract stem students to study at suny schools and take a job in state.

Ah, okay. That makes sense. So it's all good. I thought there was some other reason that I was missing. 

[regentrude]

Just wanted to mention another data point:

Over the past 2-3 years, our school lost 500 full paying international undergraduates, mostly form the Middle East. This is caused by the development of the oil price nad has nothing to do with any domestic developments.

[Lanny]

That is crazy talk. That's like saying OJ Simpson limits the prospects of USC grads. They are all fine, high-quality institutions with excellent reputations and stellar students/graduates.

 

Some of the reactions I read about, from Mizzou students/parents/alumni lead me to believe that's not crazy talk.  Especially in the case of Mizzou/MU it may take the school 5 or 10 or 20 years to recover from this.  OJ Simpson or the Drexel professor or others like them, are much less damaging to a university than what happened at Mizzou.  Mizzou has been wounded and the recovery will take time.

[Sneezyone]

Some of the reactions I read about, from Mizzou students/parents/alumni lead me to believe that's not crazy talk.  Especially in the case of Mizzou/MU it may take the school 5 or 10 or 20 years to recover from this.  OJ Simpson or the Drexel professor or others like them, are much less damaging to a university than what happened at Mizzou.  Mizzou has been wounded and the recovery will take time.

 

I don't disagree with you on the scope of Mizzou's issues, just that a single (or even several) batty professors or lecturers = deflated earning potential.

[justasque]

I'm guessing it's a mix of all of the things mentioned in the thread.

Students are looking for a "good fit".  Racial concerns play into that.  My own kids wanted a school where they could find the same kind of diversity they had experienced in their K-12 education.  "Diverse" meaning not just racially diverse, but an interesting mix of people who came from a variety of backgrounds and experiences, coming together to seriously study the areas of interest they had in common.  A community where the existing students aren't looking for, or comfortable with, this kind of diversity would not be a "good fit" for my kids, or most of their friends.  Depending on major, bright kids often have lots of college options, so it can be easy to eliminate a school where which doesn't seem like it would be a good fit socially.

 

(ETA:  I think the Drexel professor is a somewhat different situation.  His brief Twitter comments seem to have been reported on, in many cases, by people who didn't always have the academic background to interpret them accurately.  And he is a single professor in a huge school; regardless of their views, most students won't be taking his classes.)
 

Edited April 10, 2017 by justasque

[Hoggirl]

Economics. Better scholarship and merit money elsewhere. Even here in NY there is more money available to attract stem students to study at suny schools and take a job in state.

I thought Missouri was a very easy state within which to establish residency? Has that changed?

[plansrme]

Let's put 5,000 lost students into perspective:

 

5,000  X $9,000 in tuition or dorm fees = $45,000,000.

 

In other words, if those 5,000 students were still there and paying just $9,000 each in tuition or dorm fees, there's a lot more cash at Mizzou.  On the other hand, if Mizzou has 5,000 fewer students, wouldn't budget cuts be appropriate?

 

I don't doubt that there are multiple factors leading to Mizzou's decline in enrollment, but keep in mind that the question is not whether it is RIGHT to steer clear on account of their race relations issues.  The question is whether people ARE steering clear on account of these issues.  It seems quite clear that they are.  Even Mizzou seems to admit such.  Missouri State doesn't seem to be having similar issues.

 

 

[regentrude]

In other words, if those 5,000 students were still there and paying just $9,000 each in tuition or dorm fees, there's a lot more cash at Mizzou.  On the other hand, if Mizzou has 5,000 fewer students, wouldn't budget cuts be appropriate?

 

I don't understand this logic. A school loses a lot of revenue because student numbers drop, so let's cut the budget in addition to that?

Which makes even less sense when the students who left are out of state/international, because their tuition subsidizes the in-state students. 

And with your line of argument it makes zero sense to cut the budget across all campuses of the system, even those who see increasing enrollment.

 

ETA: But then, the state legislature does not give a crap about increasing enrollment either. During the years when enrollment at MO S&T increased by 50%, they cut the budget. I know that their physics department is operating with the same number of faculty as fifteen years ago when the school had only 60% of today's students (their primary task is service teaching for all the STEM students that make up 90% of campus, so they feel the enrollment increase directly).

Edited April 10, 2017 by regentrude

[Mom22ns]

Finances. For students in state, it is the most uni (in many subjects) the least amount of money can buy.

 

Missouri State is almost as large with almost as many undergraduate degrees as Mizzou and has benefitted from the declines at Mizzou. 

[regentrude]

Missouri State is almost as large with almost as many undergraduate degrees as Mizzou and has benefitted from the declines at Mizzou. 

 

That's why I said "the most uni for the money". MO State is not quite the same caliber school as Mizzou.

[TravelingChris]

I don't understand the comment about needing academic credentials to understand the Drexel University professor comment that he wants to vomit when he sees a passenger give up a seat for a soldier and thank him/her.  Yes, I know he is upset about civilian deaths in Mosul but that reactions is disgusting, IMO.  It isn't like that soldier is glorifying the death of civilians and people are giving him a seat.  Trying to liberate a guerilla enemy in a large city is bound to have civilian casualties.  Maybe this guy thinks things are great for the essentially hostage citizens of that city by ISIS.  I have plenty of higher education and I think that professor is totally wrong and inappropriate.  As to whether it affects hiring of people who graduated from Drexel, I think probably not mainly because I don't think isolated incidents like this really matter in employment decisions.  However, I think some people may decide not to enroll or let their children enroll.  I also think the head of the department should look into how this prof graded his students and see if there is any pattern of discrimination against veterans or children of veterans, retirees, or active duty (which you could tell by seeing who are all the people using VA benefits for the school).

[regentrude]

  I also think the head of the department should look into how this prof graded his students and see if there is any pattern of discrimination against veterans or children of veterans, retirees, or active duty (which you could tell by seeing who are all the people using VA benefits for the school).

 

Just wanted to point out that instructors are not privy to students' financial information and have no way of knowing who is going to school on VA benefits. Unless a student attends class in  uniform, they would not know who is associated with military.