17 year old boys

[Scarlett]

Maybe it is a question of HOW he schools? Can you restructure his schooling? Does he have to do the online school? (That would have been awful for both my kids.)

How much freedom does he have in his schooling? Does he have choices in materials, subjects, schedule?

Is there a lot of busywork in his courses? (My kids would have balked at that)

 

 

He talked to me last night about how he knows he is procrastinating on his school and he has to change that. He just started a new period---last one before the end of the year in mid May.  So the way it works is everything is 'due' by Sunday at midnight, but in reality most of it can be turned in by the next checkpoint without penalty.  So he knows there is no real urgency on any of it.....except then he gets further and further behind.  He is currently almost completely caught up from last week. .  But the week gets away from him very quickly and he just doesn't have a lot of free time.  He wanted me to let him go out last night at 8 and I firmly told him he could not because he is behind on his school.  His 'reasoning' was that he wasn't going to do any more school past 8 anyway so why not let him go?  I repeated 'because you are behind.'  He wanted to have a 'what if' conversation.  What if I was caught up?  I said, 'but you aren't.'   Anyway, he huffed off to his desk and stayed up until midnight working on school.  LOL...

 

He isn't so much behind as he has a low grade in his Lit course and he is going to have to get every point possible to come away with an A and I believe a B is even a possibility. 

 

His work isn't busy work.  It is rigorous and he is just sick of it.  And he sees no value in it. (except for his math work)  Not saying he is correct in that, but that is his current 17 year old mindset. 

 

So I decided after much thinking and talking to you all that I would be less bothered by him being out until 10:30 on a weeknight if he was caught up on his school.  Summer is near so this wont' be a problem for much longer.  But I feel I really need to crack down right now.  He does need to learn to self regulate but I am not willing to let him sink at this stage of his high school.  His GPA is 3.9 and he will not be happy if it drops significantly.  Next year will be much  much easier on him.  After that he has to decide if he wants to go on to college right away or go to work.  And I will be clear with him that I won't be holding his hand through college. 

[regentrude]

He isn't so much behind as he has a low grade in his Lit course and he is going to have to get every point possible to come away with an A and I believe a B is even a possibility. 

 

His work isn't busy work.  It is rigorous and he is just sick of it.  And he sees no value in it. (except for his math work)  Not saying he is correct in that, but that is his current 17 year old mindset. 

 

 But I feel I really need to crack down right now.  He does need to learn to self regulate but I am not willing to let him sink at this stage of his high school.  His GPA is 3.9 and he will not be happy if it drops significantly.  Next year will be much  much easier on him.  After that he has to decide if he wants to go on to college right away or go to work.  And I will be clear with him that I won't be holding his hand through college. 

 

So do I understand this right:

The boy does  a rigorous program and has a 3.9 GPA.

He has a "low" grade in literature that may even cause him a B.

 

And you feel the need to crack down???

 

If you won't be holding his hand through college, he should have the opportunity now to learn to manage his own time. Obviously, he is doing very well. A high schooler can learn a lot from his own mistakes; a B earned because of time management issues and lack of attention to details can be a great motivator to figure out how to do  things differently, and realizing that himself may work much better than being pushed and prodded by mom (ask me how I know).

 

I would really back off and give this almost adult young man more agency so he can practice these skills before he goes off to college.

[Scarlett]

So do I understand this right:

The boy does  a rigorous program and has a 3.9 GPA.

He has a "low" grade in literature that may even cause him a B.

 

And you feel the need to crack down???

 

If you won't be holding his hand through college, he should have the opportunity now to learn to manage his own time. Obviously, he is doing very well. A high schooler can learn a lot from his own mistakes; a B earned because of time management issues and lack of attention to details can be a great motivator to figure out how to do  things differently, and realizing that himself may work much better than being pushed and prodded by mom (ask me how I know).

 

I would really back off and give this almost adult young man more agency so he can practice these skills before he goes off to college.

 

 

Well, the Lit grade is currently F. 

 

But yes, those are the basic facts.  When I say crack down I just mean not let him go out everysingle night.  He has a lot of freedom to manage his courses like he wants. He has been largely independent in his work for 3 or 4 years.  Are you saying you would just also let him go out everynight and let the grades fall where they fall? 

[Guest]

It sounds like your son knows what it takes to get the grades, but doesn't have the motivation, as he is consistently choosing not to. Its definitely play before work. What is the social attraction? Are they escaping chores, are there females or risky behaviour involved? Or is it freedom without responsibility? does he have a post high school goal that would motivate him?

Edited March 28, 2017 by Heigh Ho

[regentrude]

  When I say crack down I just mean not let him go out everysingle night.  He has a lot of freedom to manage his courses like he wants. He has been largely independent in his work for 3 or 4 years.  Are you saying you would just also let him go out everynight and let the grades fall where they fall? 

 

Depends on your boy's currency.

 

I know that if my DS was not doing his school, forbidding him to go out and pursue his interests would not accomplish anything towards improving his grades, because he is strong willed and has shown again and again that he cannot be bribed or blackmailed. He would be very angry, but he would not comply with my demands just so I let him go out. He'd rather fail the course if it came to a battle of wills.

He has to want to do the work; punishment will not make him do anything.

Fortunately, I have known this for many years now.

 

YMMV. I assume there are some young people who can be threatened/bribed/blackmailed into doing what their parents want. I don't know whether your DS belongs to that group. I just know mine doesn't.

[Scarlett]

Depends on your boy's currency.

 

I know that if my DS was not doing his school, forbidding him to go out and pursue his interests would not accomplish anything towards improving his grades, because he is strong willed and has shown again and again that he cannot be bribed or blackmailed. He would be very angry, but he would not comply with my demands just so I let him go out. He'd rather fail the course if it came to a battle of wills.

He has to want to do the work; punishment will not make him do anything.

Fortunately, I have known this for many years now.

 

YMMV. I assume there are some young people who can be threatened/bribed/blackmailed into doing what their parents want. I don't know whether your DS belongs to that group. I just know mine doesn't.

 

 

Interesting that you worded it as threatened/bribed/blackmailed.  I see it as part of  parenting. I didn't word it as some strong armed tactic to get my way.  Rather, 'son you are behind on school and need to stay home tonight.'   He then went and worked until midnight on his school. 

[Scarlett]

It sounds like your son knows what it takes to get the grades, but doesn't have the motivation, as he is consistently choosing not to. Its definitely play before work. What is the social attraction? Are they escaping chores, are there females or risky behaviour involved? Or is it freedom without responsibility? does he have a post high school goal that would motivate him?

 

 

I don't think there are risky behaviors involved.  I think he just likes hanging out with his friends.  Sometimes girls are there and sometimes not.  They go walking at the park as a big group or go hang out at Braums and eat or go to someone's house (a couple just got married so their house is fun to hang out at) to play video games. 

 

He isn't sure what he wants to do after high school. 

[maize]

Depends on your boy's currency.

 

I know that if my DS was not doing his school, forbidding him to go out and pursue his interests would not accomplish anything towards improving his grades, because he is strong willed and has shown again and again that he cannot be bribed or blackmailed. He would be very angry, but he would not comply with my demands just so I let him go out. He'd rather fail the course if it came to a battle of wills.

He has to want to do the work; punishment will not make him do anything.

Fortunately, I have known this for many years now.

 

YMMV. I assume there are some young people who can be threatened/bribed/blackmailed into doing what their parents want. I don't know whether your DS belongs to that group. I just know mine doesn't.

I was like your son :)

 

External motivation was pretty much never effective.

[Bootsie]

He talked to me last night about how he knows he is procrastinating on his school and he has to change that. He just started a new period---last one before the end of the year in mid May.  So the way it works is everything is 'due' by Sunday at midnight, but in reality most of it can be turned in by the next checkpoint without penalty.  So he knows there is no real urgency on any of it.....except then he gets further and further behind.  He is currently almost completely caught up from last week. .  But the week gets away from him very quickly and he just doesn't have a lot of free time.  He wanted me to let him go out last night at 8 and I firmly told him he could not because he is behind on his school.  His 'reasoning' was that he wasn't going to do any more school past 8 anyway so why not let him go?  I repeated 'because you are behind.'  He wanted to have a 'what if' conversation.  What if I was caught up?  I said, 'but you aren't.'   Anyway, he huffed off to his desk and stayed up until midnight working on school.  LOL...

 

He isn't so much behind as he has a low grade in his Lit course and he is going to have to get every point possible to come away with an A and I believe a B is even a possibility. 

 

His work isn't busy work.  It is rigorous and he is just sick of it.  And he sees no value in it. (except for his math work)  Not saying he is correct in that, but that is his current 17 year old mindset. 

 

So I decided after much thinking and talking to you all that I would be less bothered by him being out until 10:30 on a weeknight if he was caught up on his school.  Summer is near so this wont' be a problem for much longer.  But I feel I really need to crack down right now.  He does need to learn to self regulate but I am not willing to let him sink at this stage of his high school.  His GPA is 3.9 and he will not be happy if it drops significantly.  Next year will be much  much easier on him.  After that he has to decide if he wants to go on to college right away or go to work.  And I will be clear with him that I won't be holding his hand through college. 

Three things I would consider:

 

1.  What defines "behind" in his work?  Have items not been turned in, causing a grade penalty?  Are items not turned in according to a suggested, but not required, schedule?  If there is no real urgency, except for the fact that he gets further and further behind, he will be the one who has to put in the time when he gets further behind.  Some of the "if I were caught up" questioning may be due to the fact that he doesn't know what the real rules/expectations are.  If he is caught up, according to what definition, will he be allowed to go out?  Perhaps he needs to hear, "The expectation is that you do XYZ, if you are doing those things you have the privilege of being out until..." Then he will know up front what he must do and he will have to make the decision to do that or not.  At this age, I have found that these expectations are better set for longer periods of time than on a daily basis.  It might look like, we expect you to maintain a "B" average, as long as that is happening, you may stay out until...  For some classes and grading methods that is a bit difficult to determine.  In those cases, I would be more likely to set a "by the end of the week, you need to have finished XYZ" then I would not monitor during the week--if it isn't done by the end of the week, then there is no going out until it is done. 

 

2.  Does he have enough free time for a person of his age?  Many young people at this age are learning a lot more than school work.  They are learning about independence, relationships, their values, etc.  These are as important tasks as school work.  

 

3.  You say that he will not be happy if his GPA drops (but also say that he sees not value in his school work except for math).  If he really values his GPA, he will figure out how to maintain it; if he doesn't that can be a very good lesson.  Or, would he be happier with a 3.5 GPA and more time to spend with friends? 

[Scarlett]

Three things I would consider:

 

1.  What defines "behind" in his work?  Have items not been turned in, causing a grade penalty?  Are items not turned in according to a suggested, but not required, schedule?  If there is no real urgency, except for the fact that he gets further and further behind, he will be the one who has to put in the time when he gets further behind.  Some of the "if I were caught up" questioning may be due to the fact that he doesn't know what the real rules/expectations are.  If he is caught up, according to what definition, will he be allowed to go out?  Perhaps he needs to hear, "The expectation is that you do XYZ, if you are doing those things you have the privilege of being out until..." Then he will know up front what he must do and he will have to make the decision to do that or not.  At this age, I have found that these expectations are better set for longer periods of time than on a daily basis.  It might look like, we expect you to maintain a "B" average, as long as that is happening, you may stay out until...  For some classes and grading methods that is a bit difficult to determine.  In those cases, I would be more likely to set a "by the end of the week, you need to have finished XYZ" then I would not monitor during the week--if it isn't done by the end of the week, then there is no going out until it is done. 

 

2.  Does he have enough free time for a person of his age?  Many young people at this age are learning a lot more than school work.  They are learning about independence, relationships, their values, etc.  These are as important tasks as school work.  

 

3.  You say that he will not be happy if his GPA drops (but also say that he sees not value in his school work except for math).  If he really values his GPA, he will figure out how to maintain it; if he doesn't that can be a very good lesson.  Or, would he be happier with a 3.5 GPA and more time to spend with friends? 

 

 

I agree that the definition of what 'behind ' means is important.  He is aware of how it all works....and the discussion included 'how much work do you have left to do that was due by this past Sunday at midnight?' 

 

When I said he doesn't have a lot of free time I was thinking more of during a typical day.  His day is up at 6:30, leaves for Votec at 7:30, gets home from there close to 12.  Leaves for his job at 2:30 and gets off his job at 5:00 ish.  So it would be nice if he could get his high school work done between the hours of 12 and 2:30.  Truth be told it is MORE than enough time for him to do that.  Then he would have his evenings and weekends free.  But he fools around so much between 12 and 2:30 that he ends up doing school work after his job....or on the weekend.  I have left all of that scheduling up to him.  I do not micro manage him.  But at some point I have to step in and say 'get your work caught up from last week or you can't go out during the week.' 

 

I remember when he started getting grades in 8th grade---grades that went toward his GPA--I talked to him about getting As if he could (which he easily can).  Dead serious he says to me, 'so what is the advantage of all As.'  I remember fumbling for the answer to that question and reevaluating my notions of it all....but yes we have discussed that if he gets a B in his Lit course and his math course it won't be the end of the world.  He has a strong A in his History and 100% in his CAD course which goes on his high school transcript.  We were in a similar place last semester and he pulled both up to an A.  So he can if it is important to him.  I don't have a strong need for him to have all As.

 

Also, as an aside, I was just like him in highschool. I could not WAIT to be done with it.  It only occurred to me in my senior year that if I had tried at all I could have had a high GPA.  I just had no one to push me.  My mom said she figured I was doing the best I could.  Gee thanks mom.  But mostly she was consumed with taking care of our physical needs and getting herself through school so she could support herself and us.  Anyway, I have tried to strike a balance. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by Scarlett

[regentrude]

When I said he doesn't have a lot of free time I was thinking more of during a typical day.  His day is up at 6:30, leaves for Votec at 7:30, gets home from there close to 12.  Leaves for his job at 2:30 and gets off his job at 5:00 ish.  So it would be nice if he could get his high school work done between the hours of 12 and 2:30.  Truth be told it is MORE than enough time for him to do that.  Then he would have his evenings and weekends free.  But he fools around so much between 12 and 2:30 that he ends up doing school work after his job....or on the weekend.  I have left all of that scheduling up to him.  I do not micro manage him.  But at some point I have to step in and say 'get your work caught up from last week or you can't go out during the week.' 

 

 

How many classes is he taking for which he has to complete work?

 

I would expect my student to need at least an hour after a morning full of classes/activities to unwind, eat, refocus. 

I would realistically hope for about an hour of work to get done between coming home from school at noon and having to leave for the job at 2:30.

 

His schedule looks quite demanding to me.

Edited March 28, 2017 by regentrude

[Scarlett]

How many classes is he taking for which he has to complete work?

 

I would expect my student to need at least an hour after a morning full of classes/activities to unwind, eat, refocus. 

I would realistically hope for about an hour of work to get done between coming home from school at noon and having to leave for the job at 2:30.

 

His schedule looks quite demanding to me.

 

 

3 high school courses.  And yes I guess he is needing at least an hour to unwind.  He does have a demanding course load.  Which means he can't take 3 hours to wind down before work AND hang out with his friends every evening.  If hanging out with his friends is what he really really wants to do then I think he can find a way to get some work done before he leaves for his job.

[regentrude]

3 high school courses.  And yes I guess he is needing at least an hour to unwind.  He does have a demanding course load.  Which means he can't take 3 hours to wind down before work AND hang out with his friends every evening.  If hanging out with his friends is what he really really wants to do then I think he can find a way to get some work done before he leaves for his job.

 

3 high school courses means 3 hours of work per day. Which also means it can feel overwhelming to him  to be expected to complete this work in the short time window between returning from Votech and leaving for his job, which can cause him to shut down and not even start.

Why is he working if he cannot handle school and job? I would make the job a privilege he has if he can keep up with schoolwork, but I would not prevent him from socializing with his friends. Can he do school work on weekends?

Edited March 28, 2017 by regentrude

[Scarlett]

3 high school courses means 3 hours of work per day. Which also means it can feel overwhelming to him  to be expected to complete this work in the short time window between returning from Votech and leaving for his job, which can cause him to shut down and not even start.

Why is he working if he cannot handle school and job? I would make the job a privilege he has if he can keep up with schoolwork, but I would not prevent him from socializing with his friends. Can he do school work on weekends?

 

 

The job is already a privilege.  He often does school work on weekends.  Almost always. 

[Scarlett]

3 high school courses means 3 hours of work per day. Which also means it can feel overwhelming to him  to be expected to complete this work in the short time window between returning from Votech and leaving for his job, which can cause him to shut down and not even start.

Why is he working if he cannot handle school and job? I would make the job a privilege he has if he can keep up with schoolwork, but I would not prevent him from socializing with his friends. Can he do school work on weekends?

 

 

The job is also something he really likes.  He likes the job and he likes the money.  What is the difference between saying 'you have to quit the job if you can't keep up with your school work' vs you can't go out with your friends if you can't keep up with your school work?  He can easily skip several evenings of socializing and catch up...but if he quits his job he won't have it once school work is caught up.

 

I am not really following your reasoning here.  Hanging out with friends every evening and all day Sat and Sunday is not really required for healthy teen life. 

[Lady Florida.]

We didn't have a set curfew because it usually depended on the activity. Also since we were homeschooling we could start school at whatever time worked, and in the teen years that was always late morning to early afternoon, so school nights didn't matter. Even when ds started dual enrollment his earliest class was 10:50. 

 

In general though, he was usually expected home by around 11 or 12 unless we knew the event would go later. 

 

Dss otoh, was in public school when the local high school started at 7:15. School nights were 10 but he could negotiate to 11 on occasion. Weekends and other non-school nights were the same as for ds - it depended on the event/activity.

[regentrude]

The job is also something he really likes.  He likes the job and he likes the money.  What is the difference between saying 'you have to quit the job if you can't keep up with your school work' vs you can't go out with your friends if you can't keep up with your school work?  He can easily skip several evenings of socializing and catch up...but if he quits his job he won't have it once school work is caught up.

 

I am not really following your reasoning here.  Hanging out with friends every evening and all day Sat and Sunday is not really required for healthy teen life. 

 

My reasoning has to do with the timing. The job schedule makes it difficult for him to complete his school work during the productive times of the day.  I found that an hour of time has very different value for academic work at different times in the day. I am definitely much less productive in the evening after spending a morning and afternoon at work than I could be at 3pm.

Having a job start at 2:30pm, during prime school time, does not set him up for success.

 

I personally do consider time spent interacting with friends absolutely a requirement for a healthy life, for teens and adults alike.

If anything, teens need more of it than adults. With both my kids I found that this makes an important contribution to their overall well being; in some situations, time with friends can be a great necessity for mental balance.

[Scarlett]

My reasoning has to do with the timing. The job schedule makes it difficult for him to complete his school work during the productive times of the day.  I found that an hour of time has very different value for academic work at different times in the day. I am definitely much less productive in the evening after spending a morning and afternoon at work than I could be at 3pm.

Having a job start at 2:30pm, during prime school time, does not set him up for success.

 

OH, well I can agree with that.  However, that is the time the job is. 

 

I personally do consider time spent interacting with friends absolutely a requirement for a healthy life, for teens and adults alike.

If anything, teens need more of it than adults. With both my kids I found that this makes an important contribution to their overall well being; in some situations, time with friends can be a great necessity for mental balance.

 

I am not arguing the benefit of time with friends.  Just the amount required. 

[Catwoman]

My reasoning has to do with the timing. The job schedule makes it difficult for him to complete his school work during the productive times of the day.  I found that an hour of time has very different value for academic work at different times in the day. I am definitely much less productive in the evening after spending a morning and afternoon at work than I could be at 3pm.

Having a job start at 2:30pm, during prime school time, does not set him up for success.

 

I personally do consider time spent interacting with friends absolutely a requirement for a healthy life, for teens and adults alike.

If anything, teens need more of it than adults. With both my kids I found that this makes an important contribution to their overall well being; in some situations, time with friends can be a great necessity for mental balance.

Could it be that he is more productive in the evenings than in the afternoon? I know I concentrate much better and accomplish more at night than I do in the morning or early afternoon.

[Scarlett]

Could it be that he is more productive in the evenings than in the afternoon? I know I concentrate much better and accomplish more at night than I do in the morning or early afternoon.

 

 

I think so.  He got a lot done last night.  But he wouldn't have if he had gone out with friends. 

[Guest]

Is lunch at votech? I don't see how three periods are carved out of the after votec, before job time unless lunch is removed. I agree that its reasonable to expect schoolwork to get done then, if socializing is five hours after job and dinner chores.

[Scarlett]

Is lunch at votech? I don't see how three periods are carved out of the after votec, before job time unless lunch is removed. I agree that its reasonable to expect schoolwork to get done then, if socializing is five hours after job and dinner chores.

He comes home and eats lunch. He gets home by 11:40 if he doesn't stop for a snack along the way. And sit in his car and play on his phone. and he does vey very little in the way of chores and helping here at home.

[Guest]

Okay, so he has 30 min for lunch and then his three periods of classes. I would put it back on him to schedule the days so classes get done. my son had a similar day senior year, decided he liked block schedule better, so lunch, then rest of time on one subject. 2 days one class, 1 day lab,2 days other class. Evening was office hours, hw or music ensemble.

[Katy]

No going out on school nights except for jobs or approved church or school activities.  Then, something reasonable based on when it is possible - come home right after you get done with work at 9:30, etc.

[Bootsie]

He comes home and eats lunch. He gets home by 11:40 if he doesn't stop for a snack along the way. And sit in his car and play on his phone. and he does vey very little in the way of chores and helping here at home.

How much time is he spending in the car each day?  In an earlier post it sounded as if you lived a number of miles out, hence part of your concern regarding late night driving.  Is he having to drive a good distance for votech, drive home, then drive to work, then drive home, then drive to see friends with each of those trips taking a significant amount of time?  

 

I don't know what type of job he has, but is there some way that he can work his hours earlier, right after votech.  Or, can he go to votech, pack a lunch and hit the library for schoolwork, then head to work without making the trip back home.

[Scarlett]

How much time is he spending in the car each day? In an earlier post it sounded as if you lived a number of miles out, hence part of your concern regarding late night driving. Is he having to drive a good distance for votech, drive home, then drive to work, then drive home, then drive to see friends with each of those trips taking a significant amount of time?

 

I don't know what type of job he has, but is there some way that he can work his hours earlier, right after votech. Or, can he go to votech, pack a lunch and hit the library for schoolwork, then head to work without making the trip back home.

He drives 30 min to votec, 30 min home. Then 15 min to work, 15 min home.

 

The suggestion of staying in town for lunch and then school at the library is a good idea.....but I doubt he would think so. I will run it by him.

[busymama7]

Midnight on weekends. Rare exceptions. But we aren't going to freak out if they are late as long as they have contacted us to let us know. A habit of being late even with contact would be addressed. This has never been an issue and we are on teens 3 and. 4.

 

They get up at 5 am on school days for an early morning religion class so we don't allow out and abouts on school nights but that really has never been an issue. We have activities and such but are always in by 9 or soon after and we know where they are and when to expect them. On non school nights including weekends, summer, vacation days and such it is always midnight. We see no benefit to them being out later than that (we have allowed things like over night grad parties)

[Jan in SC]

During the school week, my kids rarely have time to hang out with friends. They have rehearsals, private lessons, and sports practice. They are always home by 10ish, but sometimes still need an hour or two for homework before sleeping. During the week they are asleep by 11-midnight and up by 6-6:30.

 

We don't have a curfew on weekends, but we have to know where they are and what they're doing. They usually have a few hours of schoolwork, a sports practice, some other rehearsals/practice, but they try to find several hours to spend with friends/girlfriends. I don't think either of the older ones have been later than 11:30pm getting home.

 

One nice thing about staying really busy is that they learn to manage their time so they can have time with friends. It's been difficult at times. One child is pulled in a lot of directions with his chosen activities. When college prep starts in earnest, he will spend a lot les time with his friends. (Or he won't get into his chosen schools.)

 

I know you were asking more about curfews, but balancing the pull of friends with current and future goals has been stressful for us with our oldest this year. I try to be very careful about letting my son pick and choose, but he still needs scheduling help. I don't mean that he needs me to tell him what to do, but at the beginning of the week we put everything into a planner and figure out some time for relaxing/friends. A friend suggested this after it worked well for her daughter. (Our kids are interested in the same extracurricular/college majors.) You want them to be goal oriented and focused, but it has to be a balance. We aren't great with this, but we're getting better.

[Annie G]

He drives 30 min to votec, 30 min home. Then 15 min to work, 15 min home.

 

The suggestion of staying in town for lunch and then school at the library is a good idea.....but I doubt he would think so. I will run it by him.

That's a lot of driving. If he does that five days a week he's spent nearly 8 hours in the car.   I realize that cannot be helped but it is a lot of time in the car and it's eating into the time available for schoolwork. 

 

He has a lot of things competing for his attention!

[Scarlett]

That's a lot of driving. If he does that five days a week he's spent nearly 8 hours in the car.   I realize that cannot be helped but it is a lot of time in the car and it's eating into the time available for schoolwork. 

 

He has a lot of things competing for his attention!

 

 

Yes I agree.  Less than two months of school so summer should be a lot easier!  And then just his senior year to go and I am pretty sure the courseload will be the easiest yet.  Although he will have another Lit course which he hates and procrastinates to no end.

[Scarlett]

Last night and night before both boys went to town to walk on the track with friends. I told ds17 he had to be home at 10:30 and no exception and no asking. Unbelievably he had to give me a scenario ....' What if I am half way around the track when it is time to leave?'

 

Sigh. I said you are smart boy.....you better not be.

 

:) they were home by 10 that night and 10:30 last night.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Scarlett

[Scarlett]

I can't remember who it was but someone here said they have a strict 'you dirty it you wash it immediately' policy with regards to dishes. I have decided and informed my boys that is the new policy in our house too.

 

In fact I had a talk with the two of them the night before last about how we have to pull together and keep things running smoothly now that Dh has a job an hour a way. Washing ones own dishes as you go was one of the items discussed. Finishing laundry out to completion was discussed.

 

Yesterday I had to go into the city to buy groceries for my boss. I bring it home and wash and cut up fruit and veggies for him and then redeliver. Dss16 was home all morning....when I got home at 12:30 the kitchen was a wreck. Dss was eating lunch. So I had to clean before I could do my work.

 

And before I left I put in a load of ds17s towels to wash. The washing machine has an insanely loud buzzer that lasts a full 10 seconds....I asked dss to put them in the dryer when they finish so that ds17 could fold and put away when he got home. Does anyone think they were in the dryer when I got home 4 hours later? No.

 

And the night before I reminded ds trash needed to go to the curb. He even took trash out to the cans. I asked him to pick up a phone book by the mailbox and throw it away. I had him get the trash from another can Dh keeps behind the house....AND there was a bag of trash on the step I had set out there that he just stepped over and 'didn't see'...so I had him come back and get that. All of that to show how much discussion there was about trash. Does anyone think the trash made it to the curb that night? No. AND when I was at work I texted him and reminded him it was trash day. And he STILL didn't do it. Maddening.

 

I told both of them they dont listen to a thing I tell them.

[Scarlett]

Sigh. So ds17 leaves the house without making his bed/ taking his wet towels out of their bathroom/washing his breakfast dish.

 

I don't know how to get this kid to do the simplest things. I put his plate and glass on his desk chair and the wet towels on his pillow.

[Bootsie]

I can't remember who it was but someone here said they have a strict 'you dirty it you wash it immediately' policy with regards to dishes. I have decided and informed my boys that is the new policy in our house too.

 

In fact I had a talk with the two of them the night before last about how we have to pull together and keep things running smoothly now that Dh has a job an hour a way. Washing ones own dishes as you go was one of the items discussed. Finishing laundry out to completion was discussed.

 

Yesterday I had to go into the city to buy groceries for my boss. I bring it home and wash and cut up fruit and veggies for him and then redeliver. Dss16 was home all morning....when I got home at 12:30 the kitchen was a wreck. Dss was eating lunch. So I had to clean before I could do my work.

 

And before I left I put in a load of ds17s towels to wash. The washing machine has an insanely loud buzzer that lasts a full 10 seconds....I asked dss to put them in the dryer when they finish so that ds17 could fold and put away when he got home. Does anyone think they were in the dryer when I got home 4 hours later? No.

 

And the night before I reminded ds trash needed to go to the curb. He even took trash out to the cans. I asked him to pick up a phone book by the mailbox and throw it away. I had him get the trash from another can Dh keeps behind the house....AND there was a bag of trash on the step I had set out there that he just stepped over and 'didn't see'...so I had him come back and get that. All of that to show how much discussion there was about trash. Does anyone think the trash made it to the curb that night? No. AND when I was at work I texted him and reminded him it was trash day. And he STILL didn't do it. Maddening.

 

I told both of them they dont listen to a thing I tell them.

 

[Bootsie]

It takes a while to teach an old dog new tricks.  I grew up in a household where my mom keep deciding and informing us of a new policy.  She would hear a friend's policy regarding laundry, dishes, making beds, doing homework, even the time of meals that worked for the friend's family and that would be the policy for our house.  She did not think much about whether it would really work as a policy in our household given her personality, habits, values, goals, and activities or those of the others who lived in the household.  Then, the first day of adopting the new policy, she would get frustrated when it did not immediately work smoothly.  I have found that including my kids in the planning of how a problem is best solved in the household improves the outcome over my setting policies for them to abide by.

 

In my household, I think I would run into trouble if I started Teen 1's laundry asked Teen 2 to remember to move it so that Teen 1 could finish later.  Unless there was some emergency or urgency to the laundry situation, I would let Teen 1 start and finish his own laundry. I find getting three people involved in a load of laundry is asking for disaster.

[Annie G]

Hang in there, Scarlett- if they are like my teens were, they're hoping that you'll give up and just do the tasks yourself because it's less work than hounding them to do it.  Hound away...it's better for them in the long run.   But oh so frustrating, right???? They magically remember things that are important to THEM, but not simple things. 

[Audrey]

Sigh. So ds17 leaves the house without making his bed/ taking his wet towels out of their bathroom/washing his breakfast dish.

 

I don't know how to get this kid to do the simplest things. I put his plate and glass on his desk chair and the wet towels on his pillow.

 

I hear your frustration.  It does get better.  It doesn't sound, from what you've described, that he's being malicious about it.  It sounds like he just doesn't think of these things.  IMO and IME, that's not atypical of teen boys.  But... it does get better!

[regentrude]

Yesterday I had to go into the city to buy groceries for my boss. I bring it home and wash and cut up fruit and veggies for him and then redeliver. Dss16 was home all morning....when I got home at 12:30 the kitchen was a wreck. Dss was eating lunch. So I had to clean before I could do my work.

 

And before I left I put in a load of ds17s towels to wash. The washing machine has an insanely loud buzzer that lasts a full 10 seconds....I asked dss to put them in the dryer when they finish so that ds17 could fold and put away when he got home. Does anyone think they were in the dryer when I got home 4 hours later? No.

 

Why???

Have DSS clean up the kitchen he messed up.

Have DS17 put his towels in the wash. Asking a sibling to take care of his laundry does not sound optimal to me..

 

Btw, when my kids have headphones on, they don't hear a buzzer.

Edited March 31, 2017 by regentrude

[Scarlett]

It takes a while to teach an old dog new tricks. I grew up in a household where my mom keep deciding and informing us of a new policy. She would hear a friend's policy regarding laundry, dishes, making beds, doing homework, even the time of meals that worked for the friend's family and that would be the policy for our house. She did not think much about whether it would really work as a policy in our household given her personality, habits, values, goals, and activities or those of the others who lived in the household. Then, the first day of adopting the new policy, she would get frustrated when it did not immediately work smoothly. I have found that including my kids in the planning of how a problem is best solved in the household improves the outcome over my setting policies for them to abide by.

 

In my household, I think I would run into trouble if I started Teen 1's laundry asked Teen 2 to remember to move it so that Teen 1 could finish later. Unless there was some emergency or urgency to the laundry situation, I would let Teen 1 start and finish his own laundry. I find getting three people involved in a load of laundry is asking for disaster.

It was just towels. I was trying to help my ds17 who does have a very full plate and is gone from the house a lot whereas ds16 is not. So I don't think it is too much to ask one family member to reboot.

 

I also am not trying to teach new tricks. Beds made, wet towels off the sink and out of shower, dishes off the table...these are things I have been insisting on since he was 3. He knows my expectations for a reasonably clean house...

 

I did decide on new policy of wash dishes when you use them precisely because they keep leaving me with a dirty kitchen and when I get home exhausted either to make dinner or do food prep for my boss.

 

I don't make changes often. But our lives are very very full and they are almost grown so yes they need to step up. I am trying to not be angry at either one of them though. Just repeat repeat and natural consequences when possible.

[Scarlett]

Why???

Have DSS clean up the kitchen he messed up.

Have DS17 put his towels in the wash. Asking a sibling to take care of his laundry does not sound optimal to me..

 

Btw, when my kids have headphones on, they don't hear a buzzer.

Well, I guess we will just have to disagree. I had more time that morning than ds17 and dss had more time than either of us and it takes 60 seconds to out a load of towels in the dryer. A 16 year should be able to either keep the headphones off or set a timer on his phone to put the clothes in the dryer.

 

He was eating when I got home and I needed to get the work done so I just did it. Yes he should have had to do it but at that point it would not have been helpful to me.

[Scarlett]

I hear your frustration. It does get better. It doesn't sound, from what you've described, that he's being malicious about it. It sounds like he just doesn't think of these things. IMO and IME, that's not atypical of teen boys. But... it does get better!

There is no malice. He just is in his own world.

[Scarlett]

Hang in there, Scarlett- if they are like my teens were, they're hoping that you'll give up and just do the tasks yourself because it's less work than hounding them to do it. Hound away...it's better for them in the long run. But oh so frustrating, right???? They magically remember things that are important to THEM, but not simple things.

Yes! And when everyone else brags about how responsible he is....how he always follows through on any task that is asked of him....I have to smile and bite my tongue.

[Bootsie]

It was just towels. I was trying to help my ds17 who does have a very full plate and is gone from the house a lot whereas ds16 is not. So I don't think it is too much to ask one family member to reboot.

 

I also am not trying to teach new tricks. Beds made, wet towels off the sink and out of shower, dishes off the table...these are things I have been insisting on since he was 3. He knows my expectations for a reasonably clean house...

 

I did decide on new policy of wash dishes when you use them precisely because they keep leaving me with a dirty kitchen and when I get home exhausted either to make dinner or do food prep for my boss.

 

I don't make changes often. But our lives are very very full and they are almost grown so yes they need to step up. I am trying to not be angry at either one of them though. Just repeat repeat and natural consequences when possible.

If I were having trouble getting DC1 to pay attention to his own chores, I would hesitate to ask DC1 to remember to help with DC2's laundry because I was trying to help DC2 because DC2 wasn't home as much.  I am coming, however, from a household where everyone forgets to move laundry from the washing machine.  Just because I hear the buzzer, I don't immediately stop grading a paper, responding to an email, etc.  The laundry buzzer is seldom the priority for anyone in my household. 

 

Did the child who was eating lunch wreck the kitchen while fixing lunch?  Or, was there a mess from previous meals and previous people?  If so, is his meal prep the problem?  Did he know when you were coming home and needing a clean kitchen?

 

Would it help if you told the children, especially given how close they are in age, what the expectation is and let them figure out how they are going to get things done.  If DC1 needs laundry moved, let DC1 figure out to ask DC2 to help.  If DC1 has to rush out of the house in the mornings, DC2 could offer to wash DC1 breakfast dishes in exchange for DC1 handling evening trash removal, etc. 

[Scarlett]

If I were having trouble getting DC1 to pay attention to his own chores, I would hesitate to ask DC1 to remember to help with DC2's laundry because I was trying to help DC2 because DC2 wasn't home as much. I am coming, however, from a household where everyone forgets to move laundry from the washing machine. Just because I hear the buzzer, I don't immediately stop grading a paper, responding to an email, etc. The laundry buzzer is seldom the priority for anyone in my household.

 

Did the child who was eating lunch wreck the kitchen while fixing lunch? Or, was there a mess from previous meals and previous people? If so, is his meal prep the problem? Did he know when you were coming home and needing a clean kitchen?

 

Would it help if you told the children, especially given how close they are in age, what the expectation is and let them figure out how they are going to get things done. If DC1 needs laundry moved, let DC1 figure out to ask DC2 to help. If DC1 has to rush out of the house in the mornings, DC2 could offer to wash DC1 breakfast dishes in exchange for DC1 handling evening trash removal, etc.

Yes everyone in this house knows I come home Thursday needing to do food prep for my boss and I have asked many times to please have the kitchen ready. Dss16 is usually not the problem....He is much better about remembering everything than ds17. The kitchen was a mess in large part bcause dss16 had put our supper in the crockpot. Which is a huge help, but he had done that 2 hours before I got home. So he had plenty of time to spend 15 min to clean the kitchen.

 

As far as the laundry I don't consider my request helping ds17. It was to help me help ds17 and it is really really not too unreasonable to switch laundry. The man point is not what I am asking them to do bu rather that the very very little that I do ask if them gets forgotten.

 

And the buzzer is a big deal to me. In fact it just buzzed so I am off to reboot. I can't stand laundry left mid stream.

[Scarlett]

I, I just have no words.

 

Ds17 got home and I asked him to strip his sheets to be washed. After he did, I laid a clean set on his bed. I walked past his room just now and the clean sheets were gone. Yes, you guessed it. He took the clean ones and put them in the laundry too. It is almost comical if it weren't so frustrating.

[unsinkable]

.

Edited April 1, 2017 by unsinkable

[Guest]

Do you have to-do lists posted for each?

That is helpful,then hold them accountable. Kitchen not done by designated time means stop everything and get 'er done, then help the person who you delayed. Same with trash. There is no play until chores are done. If you really need to illustrate that,delay dinner until all chores are done.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Heigh Ho

[Scarlett]

Well, I got to practice grace today. Dd was asked to cover a pool shift for a friend who is sick. By agreeing to cover the shift, it meant her work wouldn't be done. She did it anyway, planning on missing the big important costume contest (she loves to sew costumes and took Grand Champion at state fair last year). I told her, "Go. Have fun. Your new deadline is midnight." I think she'll make it. She'd stayed up very late, doing her best, but she felt like she HAD to work the pool shift. It was good for her to have to make the decision, knowing the consequences, and it was good for me to give grace.

I am cool with giving grace. I need it myself sometimes.

 

My issue with ds17 is the degree with which he forgets no rl things.

 

My moms answer to my complaints is always, " at least he isn't doing drugs".

[Scarlett]

I just went downstairs to put the leg of lamb in the oven, and found myself scowling at the pile of clothes still on the couch, and the laptop and pile of Miss Rodeo Colorado papers strewn about. And then had this thought--what I'd give to have Ed's clothes piled up there, along with his old Sony laptop. Dd's is right where he always left his. So, ladies, let's keep this in the back of our minds--this is not a permanent state of affairs, and all too soon, those piles will be gone. 

 

 

I agree.  I do think of it often.

 

Ds did make his bed before he left the house this morning at 6:45 for volunteer work.  And he removed wet stuff from the bathroom he shares with dss. His plate however did not make it to the dishwasher.  :)  I put it on his desk chair.  It is kind of a joke now.  

[Scarlett]

Well, two out of three ain't bad!  :lol:

 

 

I know right!  :)