Living in an apartment in the city with kids

[lovinmyboys]

Is hard. We are staying in Germany for a few months and overall it has been good. We go out exploring and it is a little stressful for me because I don't know where I am going and I have four kids (and we try to behave perfectly on public transportation). I want to be able to come home and relax and let the kids relax, but our downstairs neighbor keeps leaving notes that we are being too loud. I don't really know how to keep everyone quieter. I am ready to return to the States. We need to have a home where we can be ourselves.

 

I keep asking the neighbor to clarify what we are doing that is bothersome. I don't really know the expectations. Are neighbors never supposed to hear you? I don't let the kids run and they don't talk loud. I'm just stressed about it because I don't know how to keep them quieter unless I just make them sit in one spot all day. We spend most of the days out, and we try to go to a playground almost every day. The kids are usually in bed from 9-7.

[EmilyGF]

One thing you might keep in mind is that the expectations for kids are different in Germany and you can give them more freedom. 

 

Send your children to a park - without you (I just did this last week in Europe with my 5-year-old and his best friend who is 5). It was close by but not within eyesight.

 

Send your children grocery shopping with a list without you.

 

Let your kids take trips on the train for fun without you. When we got picked up from the airport, all the kids under 12 took the train home without an adult because kid tickets are cheap and adult expensive. Then they biked from the station to home.

 

Also, remember that kids in Germany aren't homeschooled so having kids at home during school hours is weird.

 

Our friends (here in the USA) just moved last year because they had a really picky neighbor. She actually wouldn't tell them they were too loud but would turn on loud music at 3 am under their baby's room if she felt that they were too loud during the day. Also, if you have a busy professional downstairs things can work better. Some of my friends love their apartment buildings. We had a really great experience on the first floor of a 6 flat that was filled with families.

 

Emily

[Mergath]

If they aren't running through the apartment and they aren't yelling, you've done as much as you can and your neighbor needs to deal with it. Some people just don't like kids, and nothing you do is going to make him or her happy short of duct taping the kids and putting them in a closet. If your neighbor wants complete silence, he/she needs to move into a single family home.

[Rachel]

Could you put a rug down to help soften the noise. Could you hang out in the downstairs apartment for awhile while the rest of the family is home so you know what they are hearing?

 

I'm sorry you are dealing with this, but it is temporary. Enjoy your time in Germany!

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well if it is as you say, it sounds like they are being kinda jerky about it.

 

 

[Amira]

When you're not a local, it's hard to know if you're really the problem or if your neighbor is a little picky. Can you bring it up with other neighbors, maybe asking them if they think your kids are too noisy? If they haven't noticed anything and if your kids are trying, then try to let it go. Another possibility is that your hours are different from your neighbor's and that's causing a conflict.

 

It's easier said than done to let it go though. We had a downstairs neighbor in one apartment overseas that was constantly annoyed at us, despite our best efforts, and it wears on you. I'm very sorry.

[Laura Corin]

Do you have uncarpeted floors?  When I lived in Paris, we took our shoes off when we came in the door to keep the noise down.

[Xahm]

 

I had friends with a small apartment with four girls. No one lived in the apartment over them. They tried to be respectful to their neighbors about not letting the kids jump off furniture, run around first thing in the morning, etc. They still got the stink eye from the old woman who lived below them. Then, one day, some one moved in above them. They could clearly hear as the person sat down in a chair, then dropped her pen, which rolled loudly across the floor. Suddenly they realized how tortured their downstairs neighbor had been for these years! It wasn't that they were horribly noisy but that the building was done on the cheap and amplified, rather than dampened, their noises.

We were four months in France in a tiny apartment with two little kids. I was so glad we had a first floor apartment!

[lovinmyboys]

If they aren't running through the apartment and they aren't yelling, you've done as much as you can and your neighbor needs to deal with it. Some people just don't like kids, and nothing you do is going to make him or her happy short of duct taping the kids and putting them in a closet. If your neighbor wants complete silence, he/she needs to move into a single family home.

This is what my Dh says. We actually have never met her. We just communicate by notes in the elevator. We have given her our phone numbers and told her to ring our bell so we can talk and come up with a solution, but she has never done it. Dh thinks we should just ignore her notes.

 

I do think we should try to get some rugs. That would probably be up to Dh though since I don't have a car and I don't know that I can get rugs and the 4 kids home on public transportation.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Your neighbor is probably a jerk and wants to make a point that kids shouldn't exist during school hours.  If your kids are NOT kicking balls through the house, shouting, or running, or banging wooden blocks directly on wooden floors, you're good.  If you're in an old building, then there may be some noise insulation issues, but that doesn't mean your kids should be forced to tiptoe in socks everywhere they go.  You've tried to figure it out with the neighbor.  You're spending time outdoors and your kids have reasonable sleep hours.  At this point, I would simply crumple up the notes and recycle them without reading them.  You're only there a few months anyway.  He or she will get over it!  I absolutely know how you feel, as I had a neighbor like this in my old building, back when we only had one kid and I spent all day on edge dreading the doorbell and my extremely well behaved 18 month old went about his day occasionally dropping something on the ground.  *cringe*.  Don't let it ruin your stay.  Make the guy a freaking advent calendar counting down the days to your departure.  LOL

 

As for the rest, this is just European city living.  I also expect my kids to behave impeccably in public transportation, but I also see a lot of poorly behaved local kids on PT, especially when school lets out.  

 

My kids do go play outside on their own, but we have playgrounds and green space directly outside our building.  My basic rule is that they have to be tall enough to press the buzzer for me to let them back in.  lol.  That means my 5yo can't go out without a sibling yet.  My 10yo can cross busy streets and pick things up at the bakery or store on his own, and I'm sure he could take PT on his own but it hasn't yet come up.  As it is, he is the one who reads all the signs and gets the family to the correct place every time we take the metro or train since my eyesight is bad.  Ha!  

 

 

ETA:  added NOT above.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Monica_in_Switzerland

[lovinmyboys]

I had friends with a small apartment with four girls. No one lived in the apartment over them. They tried to be respectful to their neighbors about not letting the kids jump off furniture, run around first thing in the morning, etc. They still got the stink eye from the old woman who lived below them. Then, one day, some one moved in above them. They could clearly hear as the person sat down in a chair, then dropped her pen, which rolled loudly across the floor. Suddenly they realized how tortured their downstairs neighbor had been for these years! It wasn't that they were horribly noisy but that the building was done on the cheap and amplified, rather than dampened, their noises.

We were four months in France in a tiny apartment with two little kids. I was so glad we had a first floor apartment!

See I think this is exactly what is happening. We aren't being "loud" we are just living our life. But of course we drop things or sit down and push the chair toward the table or clatter the dishes, etc. I would much rather be downstairs. We didnt pick what floor we would be on. We asked our landlord and he just said "people have to get used to kids. They live on the planet too."

[EmilyGF]

I second the rugs. That can help... especially a rug with a pad underneath.

 

Emily

[SparklyUnicorn]

One thing you might keep in mind is that the expectations for kids are different in Germany and you can give them more freedom. 

 

Send your children to a park - without you (I just did this last week in Europe with my 5-year-old and his best friend who is 5). It was close by but not within eyesight.

 

Send your children grocery shopping with a list without you.

 

Let your kids take trips on the train for fun without you. When we got picked up from the airport, all the kids under 12 took the train home without an adult because kid tickets are cheap and adult expensive. Then they biked from the station to home.

 

Also, remember that kids in Germany aren't homeschooled so having kids at home during school hours is weird.

 

Our friends (here in the USA) just moved last year because they had a really picky neighbor. She actually wouldn't tell them they were too loud but would turn on loud music at 3 am under their baby's room if she felt that they were too loud during the day. Also, if you have a busy professional downstairs things can work better. Some of my friends love their apartment buildings. We had a really great experience on the first floor of a 6 flat that was filled with families.

 

Emily

 

Hm.  I guess I'm too American for that.  LOL  Depends on their ages.  My 11 year old would FLIP OUT if he got into a situation of not understanding the language or being understood. 

 

My other kid was always bold enough for that.  When we went to Germany he was willing to do stuff on his own and didn't give a rat's butt if someone didn't understand him or the other way around.  Really depends on the kid I think.

 

 

 

[lovinmyboys]

One thing you might keep in mind is that the expectations for kids are different in Germany and you can give them more freedom.

 

Send your children to a park - without you (I just did this last week in Europe with my 5-year-old and his best friend who is 5). It was close by but not within eyesight.

 

Send your children grocery shopping with a list without you.

 

Let your kids take trips on the train for fun without you. When we got picked up from the airport, all the kids under 12 took the train home without an adult because kid tickets are cheap and adult expensive. Then they biked from the station to home.

 

Also, remember that kids in Germany aren't homeschooled so having kids at home during school hours is weird.

 

Our friends (here in the USA) just moved last year because they had a really picky neighbor. She actually wouldn't tell them they were too loud but would turn on loud music at 3 am under their baby's room if she felt that they were too loud during the day. Also, if you have a busy professional downstairs things can work better. Some of my friends love their apartment buildings. We had a really great experience on the first floor of a 6 flat that was filled with families.

 

Emily

I actually am a pretty free range parent so I thought I would be able to do stuff like that here (and I do see unaccompanied young children a lot). However, my kids don't speak German very well and the phone service isn't always great. I don't think they are ready to head out on their own. Last week the German schools were out and the two older kids went out with a couple of their friends (who speak German). That was good for them. If we end up staying here for a few years, I will definitely get them going out on their own.

[lovinmyboys]

I am going to get rugs. If the neighbor ever does get ahold of us, what is reasonable for us to do? I really don't want to be annoying, but I can't promise we won't ever drop a pen.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I am going to get rugs. If the neighbor ever does get ahold of us, what is reasonable for us to do? I really don't want to be annoying, but I can't promise we won't ever drop a pen.

 

Sounds like they are asking too much.  The rugs should help, but there is only so much you can do.  Maybe they just aren't used to having kids above them.

 

I once lived in an apartment when my kids were little that was above a young newly married couple.  They would complain that my kids were making noise at 8/9 in the morning.  Meanwhile, they'd be up at 2/3 in the morning clanging pots (late night eating), etc.  They had a very different schedule than we did and had no experience with kids.  They weren't being reasonable IMO, but what can ya do?  Some people are just freakin clueless and selfish.

 

One thing I've never cared for regarding Germany is the attitude towards children.  I often felt as if it was a much less friendly place towards children than what I'm used to.  No clue if that is in my head, but my husband does not disagree with me.

[Guest]

See I think this is exactly what is happening. We aren't being "loud" we are just living our life. But of course we drop things or sit down and push the chair toward the table or clatter the dishes, etc. I would much rather be downstairs. We didnt pick what floor we would be on. We asked our landlord and he just said "people have to get used to kids. They live on the planet too."

 

Your landlord is correct.

 

I've been both a downstairs person and an upstairs person, and if I have kids, I want to be down and if I don't, I want to be up :-D But even in side-by-side duplexes, I have had cranky neighbors that thought we all walked too loud at 2pm...meanwhile I was going out of my mind, really developing a complex about everyone doing ev-er-y-thing as quietly as possible, which of course resulted in no gain in satisfaction from next door.

 

If you're not breaking the law or violating your lease//basic human decency, they'll get over it.

 

Please try not to let it ruin your stay!! Your neighbor is the one that needs to move out of the city of she doesn't want to know other people exist, not you!!

 

that is true even if it *does* sound unusually loud on her end (like in the Friends episode).

[Xahm]

If you want to do something, bake some chocolate chip cookies (ime these are seen as a special American treat) and take them to the neighbor, asking if there's a specific time of day that most problems occur. If the neighbor can be specific (ie please let me sleep until 930 Sunday morning), try to honor that. Otherwise smile, promise to do your best, then continue to act like the normal, considerate humans you are.

[Guest]

I am going to get rugs. If the neighbor ever does get ahold of us, what is reasonable for us to do? I really don't want to be annoying, but I can't promise we won't ever drop a pen.

 

Be honest. "We will continue to do our best, as we have since we moved in, but as you can see, we are alive and sentient, so..............."

[Mimm]

See I think this is exactly what is happening. We aren't being "loud" we are just living our life. But of course we drop things or sit down and push the chair toward the table or clatter the dishes, etc. I would much rather be downstairs. We didnt pick what floor we would be on. We asked our landlord and he just said "people have to get used to kids. They live on the planet too."

 

At least your landlord is reasonable about it. :)

[Mergath]

I am going to get rugs. If the neighbor ever does get ahold of us, what is reasonable for us to do? I really don't want to be annoying, but I can't promise we won't ever drop a pen.

 

We live in an up/down duplex (where, thankfully, the downstairs tenants are friends/coworkers of dh's) and in my mind, there are two categories of noises. Noises you can reasonably prevent, and everyday living noises. The former is stuff like loud music or screaming. It's pretty easy to keep your music/tv turned down to a reasonable level, or to not scream across the apartment to your kids. It's the kind of stuff that's easy to fix if it's annoying someone and doesn't really affect your life.

 

The latter category is stuff like walking, talking at a normal volume, showering, etc. Your neighbor can't reasonably expect you and your children not to walk or talk. I mean yeah, you could all sit on the couch and never move around and whisper, but that's going to massively impact your quality of life.

 

It sounds like all the stuff your neighbor is complaining about falls into the second category. You could get some rugs if it won't be a major hardship, but other than that, your neighbor needs to learn to tune some stuff out. Even if the soundproofing in the building is abysmal, that's not your fault and you aren't responsible to maintain absolute silence. Your neighbor needs to talk to the landlord about this stuff.

 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

If you really can't work it out, then for all other conflicts, simply say, "Please address yourself in writing to the landlord as we are unable to come to an agreement on this."

 

 

[J-rap]

I think rugs are a great idea.  And maybe everyone should wear slippers when home.  After that, I think I'd reach out to your neighbor.  It could be that if you go downstairs with a plate of cookies and introduce yourself in a friendly manner, that would change everything.  Putting a friendly, personal face to the situation instead of notes back and forth (they can be misinterpreted as angry, uncaring, etc.) can really make a difference.  You can listen to her concerns, brainstorm a little together, and then get back to doing mostly what you're already doing, which sounds like is already about the best you can do, after adding rugs.  :)  But hopefully she'll have a better attitude about it, knowing you're a nice person who is doing her best.

 

Maybe you can even invite her to the park with you and your kids sometime.

[Jaybee]

Having done apartment living for many years, I understand that tension. It has caused me to be pretty uptight sometimes. We currently live in the middle floor of three, in an old apartment building. There are carpets, but the floors are apparently wooden underneath the carpet, and they creak and groan. I try to take what we hear from the above neighbors, and it guides me in when to tell our boys to cool it a bit for the neighbors downstairs. Most of the time, it is just regular living noise, and I know they can't do anything about that. They do seem to walk heavily, and sometimes do an exercise routine in the evenings which sounds like someone might just come through the floor one of these days. Rugs help, and consideration helps, but partly, it's just standard for apartment living.

[Tap]

Having the everyday noise of 6 people above you, could be a lot if you aren't used to it. Especially, since 5 of you are home during the day (aside from excursions). The bathroom usage, dishes for 6 people, laundry, and patter of 10-12 feet....can seem atrocious to someone not used to it.  If you are making reasonable attempts to keep the noise down, then I wouldn't worry too much about it.  If you are planning to stay long term, maybe offer to switch places!

 

I agree with rugs, also felt pads on the bottom of the chair legs. Put bits of felt on the  inside parts of cabinet doors, so they don't slam shut with a loud noise. Put a rug by the sink and in the bathroom to lesson noise made while standing in those spots. Make sure the bed frames and couches don't rest the wall, or every time someone moves around it will make a thumping noise.  

 

 

 

Good luck!  I hope you can find a reasonable solution.  

Edited March 9, 2017 by Tap

[PeppermintPattie]

I lived in Germany, and my experience was similar - Germans love to leave those notes! For us, it turned out to be closing the front door too loudly. We didn't even realize we were doing it, so in the end, I was glad to know exactly what we were doing that was so annoying as to warrant an anonymous note.

 

And yes, give your kids the chance to go out on their own. They don't need phones or language skills - just Bitte and Danke. It's such a rare opportunity for them and will boost their confidence immensely! My five year old nieces and nephews walked home alone from school every day. People expect kids to be on their own and to act like kids, so they'll be just fine! You could start with having them jog around the block.

Edited March 9, 2017 by PeppermintPattie

[Tanaqui]

Downstairs neighbors are always like this. The building probably has insufficient soundproofing. Get the rugs, wear slippers or socks in the house instead of shoes, and maybe put thingies on the doors so they can't slam - even the most well-intentioned child will sometimes slam a door.

[EM in AR]

Hey!  We're here in Germany for a few months and living in a city apartment and going a little crazy trying to be quiet, too!  No fantastic advice, just wanting to commiserate and express solidarity.  We're mincing about in our socks, not closing doors, and waiting for winter to be over. 

Edited March 9, 2017 by EM in AR