6:30. No sign of DH yet. Typical.

[Prairie~Phlox]

My dh has never been a workaholic, thankfully after many years of struggling self employment, he does have a full time job that he likes, we have retirement and decent healthcare and he works 37 1/2 hours a week(all county employees do here), he leaves at 7:30 & gets home at 5p.m. He has two weeks vacation and paid holidays (totally 13-14 a year) Having money in the bank every two weeks is SO NICE, we don't live a lavish lifestyle and make less than most people, but we have time to just relax and not feel rushed and busy.  I hope those of you that work so much have a bank account to show it. I do work part time, but my job is flexible and I work when I want on the scheduled days (about 10-12 hours a week) it's enough to have some extra spending money and we made more this past year than we've ever made in our married life)  Not quite what I pictured, but thankful for what we do have.

[Zinnia]

It's not necessarily about making ends meet but about keeping one's job. DH's job responsibilities not that long ago were spread among 10 people (seriously). The company went through a merger and while he survived, he took a position that was created from the elimination of 3 positions. Those 3 positions had been created during a previous reorganization out of 10 positions.

 

The Great Recession was brutal and left many people in a situation where it's either work crazy hours or face unemployment.

 

This is exactly what has happened to my dh, too.  

 

He got promoted 12 (!) months ago, and they have not replaced the position yet.  In the meantime, someone else also quit.  So for the last year or so, he has done three fairly intense positions.  I think that any one of the positions could probably be handled in 40-50 hours, but add up all three.....  And yep, he's going in at 5am and bringing work home and working on Saturdays, too.  

[Zinnia]

The idea that this many hours is only for the upper middle class seems laughable, too.

 

We started our marriage (16 years ago) about $200,000 in debt (my grad school, his undergrad, adn consumer debt).  It's been a long, deep hole for us, and we are starting to see the end of it, down to about $40,000.  Lots of ups and downs with employment and babies and unemployment and not-the-best decision of grad school on loans.  But we've made it happen somehow.

 

The 60-70 hour weeks (more in travel weeks) have gotten my dh to a point where we are doing more than just surviving.  We're starting to pay faster on the debt.  We're in our 40s with no retirement, no college savings, and we rent.  In the last year, we're starting to think, "hey, maybe we're going to be able to afford some of this stuff that we would like."  But it's been many, many years of these long, long weeks to get there.

 

This is a sore spot for me, because my mom has taken me aside in the last year to tell me to tell dh to work less.  My parents divorced as I entered adulthood, and I'm not close to my dad.  So the only reason I can see that my mom would say that is because she feels like dh working a lot means that I have to do the bulk of stuff at home.  Which is what I signed up for, and I'm okay with.  But it doesn't fit some people's definition of a "good family life."  I feel like we have good time when we are together, and that's enough for me.

[ktgrok]

It isn't true that men can either be ambitious at work OR have a relationship with their children.

 

 

 

True. My kids are VERY close with DH, especially the 7 yr old girl. DH is hear in the morning for a bit and they have a routine of following him around as he gets ready for work, chatting. Then a hug routine. In the evenings when he is home (usually twice or three times during the work week he gets home before their bedtime) he snuggles on the couch with them (or, more likely, has a tickle war until i yell that they need to settle down!) and the 4 yr old falls asleep leaning on him. The 7 yr old used to, but now that she has a big girl bunk bed she just snuggles and then he walks her to bed and tucks her in.  He does often work at night on his laptop, but not during that hour of bedtime snuggles. Ever. He will stay up until midnight or later, but that time is theirs. He also spends as much time on the weekends as he can with them....which is why I've started paying for a cleaning lady, etc. He'd rather use his limited time with them than on cleaning. 

[FaithManor]

I'm not trying to be a pest, I promise. I read I Know How She Does It at the beginning of last year and it really challenged a lot of my assumptions and changed my thinking on things. For the book, the author had 1,001 women who made over $100,000 a year keep a log of their time. Not one person worked more than 70 hours in a week. These women worked in all different industries. It is possible she got a weird sample (or that even very successful women tend to work less than men). That has stuck with me- 1,001 women and not one worked more than 70 hours.

 

In your example- someone leaves at 7am and has a half hour commute each way, and takes an hour lunch, then returns home at 7pm for five days a week, that is only 50 hours of work.

 

I used to tell people that my Dh works 70 hours a week. After reading that book he started tracking his time. It turns out that he actually averages about 55 hours a week. So, in our case, she really was right that he didn't work as much as he thought he did. He has had weeks that he worked much more, but he also has had weeks that he left early on Friday or whatever.

 

The book made me wonder if our cultural narrative of everyone being overworked is actually true. I'm sure it is for some people, but I wonder if it is really an epidemic.

In some cases due to the fact that housework and child care often falls more heavily on the working mother than the father - numerous studies have pointed to a big inequity in this - it could be that these women were not working as many hours as their male colleagues because sick kids, kids with homework, grocery shopping, kids to feed, kids to put to bed, laundry piling up. I have known many a man who goes into work on Saturday while his working wife takes conference calls at home while juggling laundry, kids, and cooking.

 

So a book that looks only at 1,001 women and their work hours is hardly representative at all.

 

In terms of my Dh, conference calls begin at 7 a.m. as it is already late afternoon or early evening in other countries where his employer has facilities. They end around 7 pm. He does not get lunch hour. He puts the phone on mute and takes a bite of sandwich. That is the regular week with a couple of hours on Sunday night's checking in to make sure everything looks good for Monday. So 62-64 hrs. But every quarter when projects are coming to a close he has a month of 12-14 hrs days 6-7 days per week.

 

Right now he is working Saturday and Sunday night's to make up for only putting in 10 hours per day on Tuesdays and Thursdays while we mentor the student launch team who meets those evenings from 6:15 -8:45.

[G5052]

True. My kids are VERY close with DH, especially the 7 yr old girl. DH is hear in the morning for a bit and they have a routine of following him around as he gets ready for work, chatting. Then a hug routine. In the evenings when he is home (usually twice or three times during the work week he gets home before their bedtime) he snuggles on the couch with them (or, more likely, has a tickle war until i yell that they need to settle down!) and the 4 yr old falls asleep leaning on him. The 7 yr old used to, but now that she has a big girl bunk bed she just snuggles and then he walks her to bed and tucks her in.  He does often work at night on his laptop, but not during that hour of bedtime snuggles. Ever. He will stay up until midnight or later, but that time is theirs. He also spends as much time on the weekends as he can with them....which is why I've started paying for a cleaning lady, etc. He'd rather use his limited time with them than on cleaning. 

 

You are VERY blessed indeed. I know husbands like yours who make it work despite the long hours, and I'm always impressed. Some of them take a kid out for a one-on-one breakfast every Saturday, some are involved in Scouts or sports with their kids, and others have a plan in place to always do something with their kids on the weekend and make time for them nearly every day.

 

My father worked long hours in research, and he always made time for us like your husband does. Even in adulthood when I had my own place in town, we'd meet for lunch or go skiing at his prompting.

 

Sadly, the norm in my circles is a husband who leaves so early that he doesn't see the kids, and then he gets home so late that he barely sees them if at all. On weekends he works, does chores, naps, and watches sports. So not much daddy time at all. After awhile, it's no surprise that the kids feel like Daddy doesn't care.

[teachermom2834]

I know there are people on this thread with professional well paying 40 hour per week jobs, so I know that is something that exists.  However, I don't know anyone in my circle in a white collar job that works those kinds of hours.  I think 10 hour days are very typical with very long weeks when crisis hits or projects are due.  I am not even including commute or taking phone calls after hours. The only people I can think of that work less are those that have gone into business for themselves and are doing well.  I pretty much assume there was a time earlier in their career that they worked long hours getting established.  

 

I don't even live in an area of the country that is remotely affluent or trendy.  I do know alot of blue collar folks and they definitely seem to think the white collar workers are idiots much of the time.  I guess they think we are selling our souls for money.  

 

My dh is a nerd.  He crunches numbers and writes reports.  I love the man and I dig nerdy but if he had to make a living building, fixing, or selling things we would all starve.  Not sure what this job is that would be less demanding and keep the lights on.  I would love to find it though. I keep looking!

[EmseB]

Is anyone else reading this thread thinking our country really has it wrong when so many people have to work that much just to make ends meet?

 

 

Not really, when you think about it in terms of how many (the majority?) of people around the globe live and most of human history.

 

Being able to drop out of the rat race is a huge luxury.  Many people actually work really hard to be able to afford to do that.  If you haven't had to work really hard, long hours to be able to afford to live out of the rat race, that would be something to be extremely thankful for, IMO.

[creekland]

Not really, when you think about it in terms of how many (the majority?) of people around the globe live and most of human history.

 

Being able to drop out of the rat race is a huge luxury.  Many people actually work really hard to be able to afford to do that.  If you haven't had to work really hard, long hours to be able to afford to live out of the rat race, that would be something to be extremely thankful for, IMO.

 

But we're not talking second or third world countries or human history before the invention of technology.  We're talking about a first world nation with a bit of wealth - just that wealth is tied up in a small portion of the population - and many in that population don't pass it down to others.  It's a bit more like serfdom when I read what's going on with some.

 

I have some hope from those who write that there are some companies that treat their employees right.  I just wish there were more of them.  Companies that say, "suck it up and be happy you have a job" annoy me considerably and if they were to ever use the argument you just used... let's just say it wouldn't sit well with me at all!  I am learning which companies are which and trying to adjust my spending accordingly, though mostly we've switched to supporting mom and pop businesses.

 

My guy is one who works many hours - starts around 8am on most days and continues to midnight, but he works from home and takes frequent breaks both during the day and certain days when we have things going on.  Even when we travel he works, but he adjusts his hours to do things together with us.  He can do this because he's his own boss and can work remotely from "wherever."  We are fortunate - I agree.  Not everyone can do this.  It's a perk of his particular job.

 

We aren't in the top 10% of income earners in the US.  I just checked using this site:

 

http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/income-rank/

 

We are right around Top 30% (all sources of income), so we're definitely doing ok.  That stretches more due to living in a lower COL area ('cause I've wondered how we can afford so much without higher income, but when one is not spending more on housing, etc, that explains a bit - and being cheap with travel and not needing anything new or updated helps too).

 

I'm glad we've been able to drop out of the rat race.  Many of the lines in my sig reflect my views about life.

 

I wish more who wanted to could. I don't think that's an awful wish at all.

[EmseB]

On weekends he works, does chores, naps, and watches sports. So not much daddy time at all. After awhile, it's no surprise that the kids feel like Daddy doesn't care.

 

But that is more a function of personality and life choices rather than how many hours someone works. I mean, are you saying that someone who works a strict 9-5 doesn't or wouldn't come home and sit on the couch and do the same thing?

[FaithManor]

Not really, when you think about it in terms of how many (the majority?) of people around the globe live and most of human history.

 

Being able to drop out of the rat race is a huge luxury.  Many people actually work really hard to be able to afford to do that.  If you haven't had to work really hard, long hours to be able to afford to live out of the rat race, that would be something to be extremely thankful for, IMO.

Yes, I was thinking too about the whole of human history which for the non aristocratic classes has been nothing but scraping along to survive.

 

In modern times, in such a rich nation, one would think that as a collective whole we would want something else for all of us. However, this requires a political mindset from our leaders that corporations should have to share their wealth a bit more. One can make a case that there are laws in place. But the reality is that not only is there very, very little enforcement and one is likely to lose their job just for filing a complain with wrongful dismissal suits taking years to settle so the employee simply can't afford to say anything, and when these things do settle, for the average worker, the courts award very little, but these laws have very little teeth to them . There is a class action lawsuit from Michigan workers against Hewlett Packard. The abuses are LEGENDARY and well documented. But when it all shakes out, despite literally for many employees, 1000 hours or more of unpaid, required to keep their jobs, overtime, the estimate is when the lawyers get their share and Michigan courts 99 times out of 100 go easy on corporations, they'll get maybe a dollar an hour.

 

No even stinking minimum wage for jobs that required years of experience, bachelor's degrees, professional certifications to even get. $1.00 an hour. And many of them lost their jobs with HP when they signed on to the lawsuit. Illegal you ask? Not really. The reality is those nifty little fine print clauses that IT companies and many, many other American corporations lobbied politicians for back in the 90's for inclusion in NAFTA pretty much makes it impossible to go after the employer.

 

I hate to say it, but it may take a worker's revolution again in order to get anything done. We've got a ton of businesses in this area that refuse to have any full time workers. This way they don't have to pay anything over minimum wage no matter how long someone works for them, no matter what the level of responsibility, and they don't have to pay benefits. It is very interesting to listen to these business owners whine and complain about lack of employee loyalty and high turn over. WELL DUH!  :banghead:

[G5052]

But that is more a function of personality and life choices rather than how many hours someone works. I mean, are you saying that someone who works a strict 9-5 doesn't or wouldn't come home and sit on the couch and do the same thing?

 

Naturally someone who worked 9-5 might do that as well.

 

The excuse I hear when they work long hours is that they need to unwind on the weekend, so little time for the kids.

 

Certainly all a matter of priorities.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My husband works in healthcare. It's not like he can do that from our couch. And it's not like he can tell someone who is coding (as in code blue) to hang on for the next shift because he's done with work and is going home now. There are a lot of vital jobs that can't be flexible and conform to our wishes. I'm glad that some people find their calling doing those jobs.

 

Dh's second job is flexible to some degree but it is also his heart and passion.

 

Dh had trouble interacting with the kids when they were younger. After I had a "come to Jesus " meeting with him, he's made a huge effort to establish rapport with them.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[creekland]

There are a lot of vital jobs that can't be flexible and conform to our wishes. I'm glad that some people find their calling doing those jobs.

 

Same here.

 

There are oodles of niches.  My hope is that everyone can find an enjoyable one that fits them well and pays the bills (including some extras rather than just scraping by).

[EmseB]

Yes, I was thinking too about the whole of human history which for the non aristocratic classes has been nothing but scraping along to survive.

 

In modern times, in such a rich nation, one would think that as a collective whole we would want something else for all of us. However, this requires a political mindset from our leaders that corporations should have to share their wealth a bit more. One can make a case that there are laws in place. But the reality is that not only is there very, very little enforcement and one is likely to lose their job just for filing a complain with wrongful dismissal suits taking years to settle so the employee simply can't afford to say anything, and when these things do settle, for the average worker, the courts award very little, but these laws have very little teeth to them . There is a class action lawsuit from Michigan workers against Hewlett Packard. The abuses are LEGENDARY and well documented. But when it all shakes out, despite literally for many employees, 1000 hours or more of unpaid, required to keep their jobs, overtime, the estimate is when the lawyers get their share and Michigan courts 99 times out of 100 go easy on corporations, they'll get maybe a dollar an hour.

 

No even stinking minimum wage for jobs that required years of experience, bachelor's degrees, professional certifications to even get. $1.00 an hour. And many of them lost their jobs with HP when they signed on to the lawsuit. Illegal you ask? Not really. The reality is those nifty little fine print clauses that IT companies and many, many other American corporations lobbied politicians for back in the 90's for inclusion in NAFTA pretty much makes it impossible to go after the employer.

 

I hate to say it, but it may take a worker's revolution again in order to get anything done. We've got a ton of businesses in this area that refuse to have any full time workers. This way they don't have to pay anything over minimum wage no matter how long someone works for them, no matter what the level of responsibility, and they don't have to pay benefits. It is very interesting to listen to these business owners whine and complain about lack of employee loyalty and high turn over. WELL DUH!  :banghead:

 

Well, I would disagree with a lot of what you state here, but then we get into politics wrt to economics and I will have to zip my lips (fingers?).  I do agree that we live in a time and place of unprecedented wealth.

[EmseB]

Naturally someone who worked 9-5 might do that as well.

 

The excuse I hear when they work long hours is that they need to unwind on the weekend, so little time for the kids.

 

Certainly all a matter of priorities.

 

Definitely. But I've heard that excuse, personally, from people who work a 9-5 too. And, as people have shared, there are people who work long hours that manage to maintain a relationship.  My only thought was that it is not the hours per se that afford someone this excuse or way of interacting with their families.

[Squawky Acres]

About unwinding on the weekend . . . maybe this is off topic, but I have to mention an overwhelmed-looking couple I met at a bar mitzvah this fall.  They had three adorable young children who were behaving like three adorable young children would after a long religious service -- and they were so apologetic saying that "usually, we have our weekend nanny, but she is off today."  "Weekend nanny?"  "Yes, see, we both work long hours, so we really need to have time on the weekends to relax, so we need our weekend nanny to take care of the children."

[EmseB]

But we're not talking second or third world countries or human history before the invention of technology.  We're talking about a first world nation with a bit of wealth - just that wealth is tied up in a small portion of the population - and many in that population don't pass it down to others.  It's a bit more like serfdom when I read what's going on with some.

 

I have some hope from those who write that there are some companies that treat their employees right.  I just wish there were more of them.  Companies that say, "suck it up and be happy you have a job" annoy me considerably and if they were to ever use the argument you just used... let's just say it wouldn't sit well with me at all!  I am learning which companies are which and trying to adjust my spending accordingly, though mostly we've switched to supporting mom and pop businesses.

 

My guy is one who works many hours - starts around 8am on most days and continues to midnight, but he works from home and takes frequent breaks both during the day and certain days when we have things going on.  Even when we travel he works, but he adjusts his hours to do things together with us.  He can do this because he's his own boss and can work remotely from "wherever."  We are fortunate - I agree.  Not everyone can do this.  It's a perk of his particular job.

 

We aren't in the top 10% of income earners in the US.  I just checked using this site:

 

http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/income-rank/

 

We are right around Top 30% (all sources of income), so we're definitely doing ok.  That stretches more due to living in a lower COL area ('cause I've wondered how we can afford so much without higher income, but when one is not spending more on housing, etc, that explains a bit - and being cheap with travel and not needing anything new or updated helps too).

 

I'm glad we've been able to drop out of the rat race.  Many of the lines in my sig reflect my views about life.

 

I wish more who wanted to could. I don't think that's an awful wish at all.

 

I don't think it's an awful wish.  I'm sorry if you thought that's what I was trying to say.

 

My argument was more philosophical than anything, not about specific corporate practices.

 

I think economics is going to dictate a lot of things, though, even with the best intentions.  If there are more people looking for jobs than there are jobs, that give the employers the ability to pick and choose the best person for the job from a lot of available candidates.  This is just an economic reality, and sure, you can frame that people should be just thankful to have a job, but there are benefits to society too.  Like it encourages more education and people bettering themselves, being more responsible, etc.  That isn't to discount the idea that employers shouldn't be cruel, but on the flip side, people start businesses to make money and better their own situations. So economically it doesn't make sense to employ someone that isn't the best worker, or the best producer.  Costco, for example, pays better than most places, but this enables them to be really choosy about who they hire.  So the guy who is late all the time or slacks off or doesn't want to work certain shifts -- a business with good benefits and higher pay has no incentive to hire that guy if they can find someone who does all those things better.  And of course this gets worse the more competitive the industry is.  You couldn't pay me enough to become a lawyer with how cutthroat it is and what firms expect.  But some people thrive in those environments and love it.  So who am I to say that the law firms should cut more slack?  I don't know.  It certainly isn't a simple problem. 

 

But my larger point is that there has never been an easy fix.  Before these days of people working long hours, there were different hardships.  There will, in my mind, always be some sort of trade off.

[amy g.]

Definitely. But I've heard that excuse, personally, from people who work a 9-5 too. And, as people have shared, there are people who work long hours that manage to maintain a relationship. My only thought was that it is not the hours per se that afford someone this excuse or way of interacting with their families.

This is what I believe as well. If you want to be a good parent, it is going to take effort and sacrifice. You have to decide that it is worth it. A dad could never go to work and still never put his family first.

 

I don't feel like we are in some kind of rat race. I don't feel like we are competing or struggling.

 

I've told this story before. I once met the wife of a young engineer. She told me. "My husband idolizes your husband. He wants to be just like him. "They were on the plane coming back from a grueling week and my husband said, 'I can not wait to put on a game and relax.' Your husband said, 'Not me! My wife has been a single parent all week. I'm going home to play puzzles and watch Pokémon!'"

 

How many hours a man works and how much time he makes for his kids are two totally different things. I think sometimes people blame companies and society for what is really a character flaw.

 

My dad looked for ways to work as little as possible. I think it was just selfishness. He spent his time on his hobbies. He spent his money on his toys. This changed when I had children. His priorities changed. He became a very beloved grandfather.

 

Part of the reason was that he spent so much time with us and got to experience my husband's cheerful servant's heart and his sacrificial love for us. Before he died, my dad said that he really regretted not being a better father.

 

I know people who have REALLY said no to the rat race. They live under tarps without electricity. Some are fortunate enough to live in school busses. They travel the country doing their art and rejecting societies constraints.

 

Guess what. Some are great parents and have raised amazing kids and some are completely disinterested in their children.

 

How good of a parent one is is not determined by income of total hours one is working. It takes a degree of selflessness some people will never be willing to attempt.

[fraidycat]

Naturally someone who worked 9-5 might do that as well.

 

The excuse I hear when they work long hours is that they need to unwind on the weekend, so little time for the kids.

 

Certainly all a matter of priorities.

This is definitely true. Sometimes DH is so tired he can barely see straight, but if he promised the kids he'd do something with them after work or on weekends, he makes it happen if at all possible (often not possible, which is where the disappointment mentioned earlier comes in). I'll go along to take over the driving to/from an activity or Starbucks or whatever for safety purposes, but DH makes it a priority to spend time with the kids and do as much as he can with them when he can. Edited February 10, 2017 by fraidycat

[G5052]

How good of a parent one is is not determined by income of total hours one is working. It takes a degree of selflessness some people will never be willing to attempt.

 

Very well said.

 

I know several adults who were raised by single moms working multiple jobs who still have a close, loving relationship in adulthood. No matter how many hours Mom worked, she was involved with them and made sure that they knew that they were special to her.

 

It really struck me when a friend talked about how her mom would take the graveyard shift Friday nights at the hospital and then take them out to breakfast at a coffee shop on Saturday mornings. You know that lady was bone-tired, but it was a commitment with her children. Then they went home happy and watched cartoons while she slept. One special lady.

[Liz CA]

Is anyone else reading this thread thinking our country really has it wrong when so many people have to work that much just to make ends meet?

 

I know we're really glad we stepped out of the typical rat race in 1999.  But even now what we're in is a bit much for us - which is why we're island bound in the not-too-distant future - and very much looking forward to slowing down more.

 

There is so much more to life than endless work (at least for us)... family time has always been a huge priority and we have no regrets at all.

 

But I know we're all different, so no condemnation toward those who feel differently.

 

What island? :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: I would like to be island bound too. Which one should I choose?

 

[FaithManor]

What island? :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: I would like to be island bound too. Which one should I choose?

 

Me too me too!!!

 

We are looking at retiring overseas as well.

[Guest]

I am pretty sure that most people, including people who have to work more hours than they would like, for any number of reasons*, would agree that there is much more to life than endless work, and that family time is a huge priority, but not everyone can work it out to step off the "typical rat race."

 

*a few I can think of in 12 seconds: in order to make ends meet, or keep their job, or have any chance of advancement which would mean a better life for their family...

Exactly this. We hate it and are working to try and retire to at least pursuing our passion careers, but right now there are bills galore and a half dozen mouths to feed. DH would really like to work just one job!

[creekland]

I don't think it's an awful wish.  I'm sorry if you thought that's what I was trying to say.

 

My argument was more philosophical than anything, not about specific corporate practices.

 

I think economics is going to dictate a lot of things, though, even with the best intentions.  If there are more people looking for jobs than there are jobs, that give the employers the ability to pick and choose the best person for the job from a lot of available candidates.  This is just an economic reality, and sure, you can frame that people should be just thankful to have a job, but there are benefits to society too.  Like it encourages more education and people bettering themselves, being more responsible, etc.  That isn't to discount the idea that employers shouldn't be cruel, but on the flip side, people start businesses to make money and better their own situations. So economically it doesn't make sense to employ someone that isn't the best worker, or the best producer.  Costco, for example, pays better than most places, but this enables them to be really choosy about who they hire.  So the guy who is late all the time or slacks off or doesn't want to work certain shifts -- a business with good benefits and higher pay has no incentive to hire that guy if they can find someone who does all those things better.  And of course this gets worse the more competitive the industry is.  You couldn't pay me enough to become a lawyer with how cutthroat it is and what firms expect.  But some people thrive in those environments and love it.  So who am I to say that the law firms should cut more slack?  I don't know.  It certainly isn't a simple problem. 

 

But my larger point is that there has never been an easy fix.  Before these days of people working long hours, there were different hardships.  There will, in my mind, always be some sort of trade off.

 

For sure companies want to hire the best workers and there are folks out there who have a tough time finding decent employment because they aren't really worthy (task-wise) for the job (definitely seen examples), but I honestly don't think all of those working their tails off to make ends meet are in those jobs because they're poor workers.  I think there are companies that take advantage of their employees - because they can.

 

If some companies can do a great job or their employees, I'm not sure why they all can't.  It should be a goal of companies to make one of these lists:  (Top 10 Companies to Work For)

 

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=top+10+companies+to+work+for

 

And just because there isn't an easy fix doesn't mean I can't do anything - like shift the money we spend to supporting mom & pop places (with good reputations) or companies that make the Top 10 lists.  

 

We all do the little bit we can.

 

What island? :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: I would like to be island bound too. Which one should I choose?

 

 

We fell in love with Kauai, but it's too far away (HI in general) and too costly to make the top of our list, so now we're exploring the Caribbean Islands to find a similar feel.  In some ways we like the Caribbean better because some of the islands are more laid back.  Two that make the top of our consideration list, but we haven't visited them yet to know for sure, are St Thomas and St Maarten.  Some of the BVI's also will be looked at due to recommendations.

 

We know we want mountains - not flat (found that out by exploring flat...) mainly because we want places where at least some of their own food can be grown rather than essentially all of it shipped in - and mountain islands are just plain prettier to our eyes.  

 

Hubby also is trying to talk me into living on a sailboat rather than buying a condo... it would have advantages of being able to sail around and see multiple islands - hanging out as long as we wanted, then moving on, and it's less expensive, but... he's the sailor.  I'm not really.  Time will tell.

 

We can't take closer looks at places at this point until next year.  Until then we're still paying for college... so limited travel funds esp with other things going on this year.  Once we're done paying for college, our "income" increases quite a bit.   :lol:  Our investigation at this point is from afar (looking at news in the areas, etc).

[creekland]

Well, the dilemma is solved. :lol: 

 

Our NBC news (local news) literally just ran a story saying the average work week is 47 hours for full time workers... and some study in Australia said that is too much.  The ideal work week should be 39 hours.  

 

So there you have it.  IF I'd seen it online, I'd link to it.  If readers want to check it out, google NBC - or maybe WGAL - and see if you can find the story there.  :coolgleamA: