Do any of you NOT participate in Halloween?

[*********]

As a raving atheist i would simply throw the garbage where it belongs. I can't imagine getting all that upset because someone decided to try to preach to my kid when my kid was on THEIR property, yk? And if they verbally began preaching I'd simply chalk it up as a consequence of interacting with strangers. I don't see how their preaching is going to hurt me or my kids - we don't believe in any of their stuff so we shrug it off and head to the next candy-laden house. :)

 

As a raving Christian (:001_smile:), I totally appreciate your post.

[jojomojo]

But if you put yourself in the shoes of someone who has been a victim of a hate crime or other ugliness perpetrated by someone under the banner of "Christianity", it might not appear to be such an innocent thing.

 

I think thats awful that anyone would be the victim of a hate crime from a Christian :( That makes me sad.

 

I still stand by what I said before though. When you (general you) go door to door asking for free treats, you're not in a place to deem what is a "treat" and what should be given out. All you can do is choose to deal with it or not participate anymore if you are not happy with the results.

 

We give out other things instead of candy as well, but they are an actual TREAT meant for the child.

 

What is an "actual treat"? Its something someone gives to bring pleasure to the recipient. I'm pretty sure that is the goal of those who give out tracts (may not be very effective, but it's their goal).

 

Some people give out circus peanuts :tongue_smilie:But I try not to get offended lol

[Peek a Boo]

It would be silly to get mad at someone for opting out of participating. The tract thing is different to me, b/c it's not simply opting out (which would be acceptable), but deliberate subversion of a holiday others are celebrating, and subversion, as well, of other people's parenting. To me, that's not an issue of what's legal or what's not. It's a simple issue of ethics. I never understand it when people argue that, because something is not legally prohibited, they can make free to do it even if it is unkind, or even manipulative. It's one thing when it's just someone who gets a kick out of being mean, but I get really confused when people who make faith or morality a central aspect of their family life do it. I really, seriously do not get how those two behaviors intersect.

 

 

ok, since "Holiday Police" seemed to be what struck me in the other thread I'll share it here too.

[Peek a Boo]

 

Originally Posted by jamnkats

As a raving atheist i would simply throw the garbage where it belongs. I can't imagine getting all that upset because someone decided to try to preach to my kid when my kid was on THEIR property, yk? And if they verbally began preaching I'd simply chalk it up as a consequence of interacting with strangers. I don't see how their preaching is going to hurt me or my kids - we don't believe in any of their stuff so we shrug it off and head to the next candy-laden house.

 

As a raving Christian (:001_smile:), I totally appreciate your post.

 

:iagree:

[Peek a Boo]

But if you put yourself in the shoes of someone who has been a victim of a hate crime or other ugliness perpetrated by someone under the banner of "Christianity", it might not appear to be such an innocent thing.

.

 

 

except that evenI realize that just because a Mormon, atheist, or Jew happened to do something horrible doesn't mean the entire religion/ non-religious are all evil. There needs to be a place for logic and reason to enter instead of holding everyone else captive to your own emotions.

[Peek a Boo]

 

Originally Posted by tibbyl

For those who agree that tracts are appropriate for Halloween, would you be hunky dory with someone giving your kid proselytizing tracts or engaging in verbal proselytizing in a setting other than Halloween?

 

It wouldn't bother me if my kid went up and asked them for it. :D

 

:iagree:

[Saille]

ok, since "Holiday Police" seemed to be what struck me in the other thread I'll share it here too.

 

I read that, but disagreed with you. Protesting and celebrating are two different things.

 

Regardless of which the person is doing, it is simply not acceptable to attempt to manipulate the religious beliefs of a stranger's child, regardless of how clever that person thinks he or she is for saying, "But THEY let their kids trick-or-treat on MY property".

 

Sola Michelle, my response is coming, but I'm stemming two huge flats of chard, and I want to think about your post some more.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

There needs to be a place for logic and reason to enter instead of holding everyone else captive to your own emotions.

 

Like expressing your anger and bitterness over the fact others are celebrating a fun day you don't believe in by telling kids they are going to hell if they don't believe the same thing you do.

[funschooler5]

TOTALLY OT NOTE:

 

I'm just grateful that SWB permits us to discuss these things here. Our differences and commonalities ALL make each of us who we are and we can't learn from eachother (even in disagreement) unless we are permitted to discuss. These threads just reminded of another place where there were hissy fits over a similar issue. There is a complete difference here where people may discuss without such.

 

:iagree:

[Guest]

As a raving atheist i would simply throw the garbage where it belongs. I can't imagine getting all that upset because someone decided to try to preach to my kid when my kid was on THEIR property, yk? And if they verbally began preaching I'd simply chalk it up as a consequence of interacting with strangers. I don't see how their preaching is going to hurt me or my kids - we don't believe in any of their stuff so we shrug it off and head to the next candy-laden house. :)

 

As a raving Christian (:001_smile:), I totally appreciate your post.

 

:iagree:

 

I hate Halloween and dh loves it. As our kids get older, they will be free to choose to celebrate it as they wish. We had many "discussions" about Halloween in our early years of marriage and let me tell you, it sure isn't worth ruining a marriage over.

[funschooler5]

As a raving atheist i would simply throw the garbage where it belongs. I can't imagine getting all that upset because someone decided to try to preach to my kid when my kid was on THEIR property, yk? And if they verbally began preaching I'd simply chalk it up as a consequence of interacting with strangers. I don't see how their preaching is going to hurt me or my kids - we don't believe in any of their stuff so we shrug it off and head to the next candy-laden house. :)

 

:iagree:

 

We teach our kids to listen respectfully, even when they don't agree. We'd probably take the tract home and read it with them (I'd check it over beforehand though, as some of them are quite gruesome). We've had a lot of interesting discussions after encounters like this. I think it helps that I am genuinely interested in learning about different religions.

[Peek a Boo]

Like expressing your anger and bitterness over the fact others are celebrating a fun day you don't believe in by telling kids they are going to hell if they don't believe the same thing you do.

 

is the tract about going to hell for celebrating halloween, or about going to hell for not believing in Jesus/ God/ Allah?

 

I can agree with you if it's the former, but if it's the latter then 'anger and bitterness' are your assumptions, not their intent.

 

or maybe CONCERN might apply to the first one too......

[Daisy]

Wow, I'm surprised this thread became so heated. We don't celebrate Halloween. We don't pass out tracts. I think tracts are kinda tacky. Actually, I just don't think they work very often. We much prefer sharing our convictions within a relationship of trust and friendship.

 

I've received tracts from other religious groups and we just toss them. No big deal. If I went trick or treating I expect I'd be filtering through my kid's junk anyway. I don't think it was intolerant to leave the track. I don't think it would be intolerant to throw it away. I think the guy standing at his door has the right to pass out candy, toys, homemade junk, pamphlets, etc. as long as they are not profane or vulgar. And I have the right, as the parent, to throw any and all of it away.

 

I do admit though that part of why we do not celebrate Halloween at all is because of this whole issue. Our local churches see it more as an opportunity to share the gospel using a pumpkin and to reach their yearly budget through chance tickets. Our family isn't into that.

[jojomojo]

Like expressing your anger and bitterness over the fact others are celebrating a fun day you don't believe in by telling kids they are going to hell if they don't believe the same thing you do.

 

This sounds like the real issue. There's a huge variety of tracts, and messages they put forth. Some preach sinners going to hell, while others focus on God's love and forgiveness. I think you may have a narrow image of the type of person that would give out tracts. I'm not totally opposed to handing them out. If I did, I wouldn't do it because I was angry and bitter over people celebrating Halloween, it would just be a good opportunity (how often do you have 100 people come to your door asking you to hand them something? lol). I also wouldn't choose tracts that simply preach repent or go to hell. I'd much rather focus more on an "introduction" type message to God's love and forgiveness and who He is.

Edited October 20, 2008 by jojomojo

[Peek a Boo]

I read that, but disagreed with you. Protesting and celebrating are two different things.

 

was the tract protesting Halloween itself? back to my reply to Jedi....

 

Regardless of which the person is doing, it is simply not acceptable to attempt to manipulate the religious beliefs of a stranger's child, regardless of how clever that person thinks he or she is for saying, "But THEY let their kids trick-or-treat on MY property".

 

but this IS a free country -- it is not freedom FROM religion, it is freedom OF religion. It is AS appropriate for a child to read a tract handed out by a stranger as it is for a child to stumble across something similar in a library.

are you willing to censor libraries because children's beliefs might be manipulated by an author's book --maybe something that was intentionally placed in the children's section by a stranger to make parents angry?

 

who gets to decide what's appropriate for each kid?

 

It's not a matter of how clever the person disseminating the info is --it's how clever the parents are in realizing this stuff can happen to our kids ANYWHERE and being ready to address it.

 

Life is full of unacceptable material. It's up to parents to decide how to handle it w/ our kids WHEN they are exposed to it.

[emeraldjoy]

 

I really, really dislike the way violence, sexuality, commercial characters and greed are glorified and marketed to children. That's my particular beef. That Seinfeld picture book about Halloween pretty much exemplifies what I hate.

 

Pretty much perfectly sums up our position on Halloween and any other commercialized holiday. And I am going to look for that book immediately.

 

And the waste....

 

We saw an 8 foot blow up purple and green witch at a local business...after traveling to 3rd world countries things truly are never the same again; the price of something like that could feed a village for a month in Cambodia, literally. It will probably get used once or twice and be tossed out...further contributing to Dioxin issues..and whatnot.

 

The witch brought up a wonderful conversation about what it takes to produce something like that (as in fossil fuels, enviromental degredation, possible slave labor, or at least, unfair labor, etc) and I think the children really got it.....

 

Sometimes I wonder if I just need to relax???????

 

Emerald

[sheryl]

I didn't expect so many replies...appreciate your responses.

[tibbyl]

UGH, that's why I abhor HOAs. Too Stepford-like in their attempts to make everyone conform.

 

I guess if you know the rules beforehand and agree, that's one thing. But not all HOAs make themselves known. The one in my old neighborhood surely didn't! We found out about it when we got a bill for dues about a month after moving in!

 

If HOA membership was mandatory, that should have been disclosed in your buyer's agreement.

[tibbyl]

It wouldn't bother me if my kid went up and asked them for it. :D .

 

But if a person is genuinely interested in learning more about another's faith and that person himself asks, then it is not proselytizing. Proselytizing is more than objectively answering sincere questions. It is offering unsolicited information in attempt to convert someone to a faith.

[Titus.Two.Five]

Nothing here either.

[Saille]

was the tract protesting Halloween itself? back to my reply to Jedi....

 

 

 

but this IS a free country -- it is not freedom FROM religion, it is freedom OF religion. It is AS appropriate for a child to read a tract handed out by a stranger as it is for a child to stumble across something similar in a library.

are you willing to censor libraries because children's beliefs might be manipulated by an author's book --maybe something that was intentionally placed in the children's section by a stranger to make parents angry?

 

who gets to decide what's appropriate for each kid?

 

It's not a matter of how clever the person disseminating the info is --it's how clever the parents are in realizing this stuff can happen to our kids ANYWHERE and being ready to address it.

 

Life is full of unacceptable material. It's up to parents to decide how to handle it w/ our kids WHEN they are exposed to it.

 

The parent gets to decide what's appropriate for each kid, as any homeschooling parent will tell you.

 

It does not matter what an evangelical Christian tract is saying. Handing it out on a pagan and secular holiday is a Christian protest of said holiday.

 

I think your library book example is off point, too. The person in the lawn chair has an agenda, and chooses that tract for the child. The library bookshelf does not have an agenda. The child chooses the book.

 

I'm returning to my point: can does not equal should.

[tibbyl]

Atheists and agnostics have tracts too except they term them "nontracts." So if someone handed out one of these little tracts to a person who has no problem handing out or receiving a Chick tract, it is safe to assume that they would be nonplussed:

 

http://www.ffrf.org/shop/nontracts/

http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/

 

I did not include the Chick link because it takes too long to download the site. I guess Halloween is their "busy" season.

[Saille]

Sola Michelle, here's my answer to your earlier post.

 

Again, I think you're right that I've chosen an example that's not a direct parallel. You're certainly making me hone my thinking! Thanks!

 

I consider faith extraordinarily personal. I would have no problem having a discussion with someone about why their faith is meaningful to them. I would have no problem having a theological argument with someone who was being respectful. I honor the faith and religious journeys of others, and I believe there's always more to learn.

 

But I believe that proselytizing directed at anyone who has not directly asked about your religion is inappropriate. And I think that if it's clear the person is asking out of curiosity about you, rather than the religion, there's a line to tread there, out of basic respect.

 

I believe proselytizing to other people's minor children is inappropriate, regardless of the setting or how "within their rights" the people doing it may feel.

 

I do think that the "one true faith" argument, while it can be the foundation of a deep and wondrous religious life, also attracts people who like "shoulds" for their own sake, and I think that particular type of person is predisposed to feel entitled to push that viewpoint on others. Being right becomes a security blanket, and becomes a substitute for self-examination and religious growth. I've had some bad experiences with those folks and tracts. Somehow, it never seems to be sweet, smiling people saying, "I don't celebrate Halloween, but I just wanted you to know that my God loves you!" sitting there on the lawn. I'd probably find that less offensive.

 

I sat here and considered whether it would be appropriate for me to sit on my lawn and introduce myself to each child as "a real witch", and point out that I don't have warts, and I don't worship the devil, and and and. It would not, in my opinion, be appropriate. Holding an informational event somewhere in conjunction with the season, fine. Introducing your Christian child to my pagan religion without your permission, and saying it's your problem because you're on my lawn, not OK. That's not what you bargained for, and I know it. I can be a better neighbor than that.

 

If you don't like that example (I honestly can't remember whether you said you celebrate Halloween, or don't), then let's go back to the caroling one. I would feel it was similarly inappropriate to use your family's caroling as an opportunity to educate your children on their co-opting of the Solstice season.

 

But of course, the views in this editorial do not necessarily reflect the view of others on the board, etc..

 

Thanks for taking the time to talk this out with me.

[Lovedtodeath]

We do not have anything to do with Halloween. We do take advantage of sales afterwards. That is it!

 

:iagree::iagree:

[momof165]

We don't celebrate it either. It was my son's decision NOT to celebrate Halloween this year. We have done so in previous years - but will not celebrate Halloween this year.

 

Sonja

____________________________________________

Homeschooling Mom to "JUST ONE" - ds 9

[OnTheBrink]

Atheists and agnostics have tracts too except they term them "nontracts." So if someone handed out one of these little tracts to a person who has no problem handing out or receiving a Chick tract, it is safe to assume that they would be nonplussed:

 

http://www.ffrf.org/shop/nontracts/

http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/

 

I did not include the Chick link because it takes too long to download the site. I guess Halloween is their "busy" season.

 

Well, like I said in some other thread (maybe this one), if dd got one, I'd toss it in the garbage, unread. Certainly not worth getting upset over.

[OnTheBrink]

Sola Michelle, here's my answer to your earlier post.

 

Again, I think you're right that I've chosen an example that's not a direct parallel. You're certainly making me hone my thinking! Thanks!

 

I consider faith extraordinarily personal. I would have no problem having a discussion with someone about why their faith is meaningful to them. I would have no problem having a theological argument with someone who was being respectful. I honor the faith and religious journeys of others, and I believe there's always more to learn.

 

But I believe that proselytizing directed at anyone who has not directly asked about your religion is inappropriate. And I think that if it's clear the person is asking out of curiosity about you, rather than the religion, there's a line to tread there, out of basic respect.

 

I believe proselytizing to other people's minor children is inappropriate, regardless of the setting or how "within their rights" the people doing it may feel.

 

I do think that the "one true faith" argument, while it can be the foundation of a deep and wondrous religious life, also attracts people who like "shoulds" for their own sake, and I think that particular type of person is predisposed to feel entitled to push that viewpoint on others. Being right becomes a security blanket, and becomes a substitute for self-examination and religious growth. I've had some bad experiences with those folks and tracts. Somehow, it never seems to be sweet, smiling people saying, "I don't celebrate Halloween, but I just wanted you to know that my God loves you!" sitting there on the lawn. I'd probably find that less offensive.

 

I sat here and considered whether it would be appropriate for me to sit on my lawn and introduce myself to each child as "a real witch", and point out that I don't have warts, and I don't worship the devil, and and and. It would not, in my opinion, be appropriate. Holding an informational event somewhere in conjunction with the season, fine. Introducing your Christian child to my pagan religion without your permission, and saying it's your problem because you're on my lawn, not OK. That's not what you bargained for, and I know it. I can be a better neighbor than that.

 

If you don't like that example (I honestly can't remember whether you said you celebrate Halloween, or don't), then let's go back to the caroling one. I would feel it was similarly inappropriate to use your family's caroling as an opportunity to educate your children on their co-opting of the Solstice season.

 

But of course, the views in this editorial do not necessarily reflect the view of others on the board, etc..

 

Thanks for taking the time to talk this out with me.

 

I appreciate your thoughts. :)

 

And, I'm of the "one is as as the other" and "the Lord created the days--one is not more evil than another" camp. And, along with that, I leave Halloween up to the personal convictions of each person. I have no issues with trick or treating, but if others do, that's fine. It doesn't affect me, really.

 

I do want to acknowledge that I realize many people have been burned by people who claim Christianity and yet use it as a weapon. I'm sorry for that. There are many facets of God and who He is and sometimes people chose to promote His wrath and forget to balance it with His love.

[Sahamamama]

We don't celebrate halloween. I don't even like church festivals, but I let the kids attend if ours decides to do something. We do carve pumpkins though. Pumpkins are a fall thing to me. I try to do it before Halloween though, so the kids don't associate pumpkin carving with halloween. Silly, eh? :p

 

Exactly what she said! We enjoy the fall season (live in the Northeast USA), but we don't do anything about HW, really just ignore it.

[Sahamamama]

Only one year did someone hand out a religious tract. The kids found it in their pumpkins and they were just disappointed that it wasn't edible! ;)

 

My ONE horrid experience with trick-or-treating happened when my oldest son was 4. He has autism, as some of you may know, and he was non-verbal that Halloween .. well, he could say a few words, such as "Mama" and "No" and "Please" ... sort of a toddler-sized vocabulary. And we went up to this one house with the tombstones in the yard, etc.

 

My son was hanging back, shaking his head. He didn't want to go up there. And I told him that it was fine. He didn't have to go. We could go to the next house.

 

So the adults who live in the house were standing there and one of them said, "Awww..come on. It's okay. We won't scare you."

 

So my son bit his upper lip and headed up to them....and they had another adult, hiding inside a coffin..and he jumped up and my son screamed and screamed, hysterically.

 

And these *%&(&(** were LAUGHING at him. Thought it was the funniest thing they'd ever seen in their lives.

 

I had to take my son straight home after that, and he refused to go trick-or-treating for 3 straight years after that. It wasn't until we moved to another neighborhood that he was willing to go out again...but, even then, he was afraid.

 

He's now too old to go (at 14), but he can still tell you ever minute of that experience (he's very verbal now) and it happened 10 years ago.

 

Now THAT irks me more than someone handing out a tract. (I get tracts handed to me in public from time to time and I just throw them out later)

 

That is AWFUL! I'm sorry that happened to your son when he was little. Glad he's doing okay now!

[5kidsforME]

Well, most of the rest of the world thinks it's laughable. Ghosts, witches, etc. etc. are considered traditional Halloween decorations.

 

Well until about 5+ years ago it was tradition to see MERRY CHRISTMAS at stores and on flyers etc.....the times are a changing..........;)

[Peek a Boo]

I sat here and considered whether it would be appropriate for me to sit on my lawn and introduce myself to each child as "a real witch", and point out that I don't have warts, and I don't worship the devil, and and and.

 

oh gosh --I think that would be FABULOUS myself. we'd probably hang out and yak it up :D

[Peek a Boo]

It does not matter what an evangelical Christian tract is saying. Handing it out on a pagan and secular holiday is a Christian protest of said holiday.

 

I think your library book example is off point, too. The person in the lawn chair has an agenda, and chooses that tract for the child. The library bookshelf does not have an agenda. The child chooses the book.

 

I'm returning to my point: can does not equal should.

 

we're gonna hafta agree to disagree here --YOU see it as a pagan/secular holiday. The rest of us see it as a FUN holiday to do w/ what we wish in a free country. And much of that ISN't a protest, even tho you continue asserting it as such.

 

My point w/ the library book is that there is nothing stopping a patron WITH an agenda from misfiling books and/or tracts into areas where children browse --children are going to be exposed to agendas in all sorts of places.

 

now i do agree w/ 'just because we can doesn't mean we should' -- we all just have different ideas of when to exercise the cans and shoulds, and when someone ELSE shouldn't be exercising their cans or shoulds ;)

[Lovedtodeath]

No, you're right, it's not a great comparison. It would be silly to get mad at someone for opting out of participating. The tract thing is different to me, b/c it's not simply opting out (which would be acceptable), but deliberate subversion of a holiday others are celebrating, and subversion, as well, of other people's parenting.

 

I hand out tracts and other literature and I also take every opportunity to proselytize. I also have literature against Haloween that I offer on different occassions. I do not see Halloween celebrants coming to my door as an opportunity and I agree with the above. I also feel handing out information regarding the evils of a holiday on that holiday while people are already celebrating is not taking the feelings of the recipient into consideration, and therefore, rude.

[newlifemom]

Well this has certainly been an eye opening thread. We used to pass out candy with "Jesus Loves yoy" written on it. Good stuff too. Never any junk. If I have offended any of you I sincerely apologize. I never thought of it as proselytizing(sp?) Just more of something to think about. My dc are pretty much afraid of Halloween and I haven't ever said anything to them about it being evil. We just don't do it. Also as an adult I really dislike the idea of having my dc going to strange homes asking for a treat. For those of you over on the Dark Side think cat & dog.;) I have fond memories as a child but can't do it now. Thanks for this discussion ladies.

[Claire in NM]

When in the ENTIRE YEAR will people ever come to your house without an invitation and want something from you?

 

Halloween is an opportunity to share Jesus with someone! We ourselves do not celebrate by dressing up or watching scary movies or going out to trick-or-treat. No, we stay home, making sure our outside lights are on, and when people come to our door asking for a treat, with a prayer, we give them a piece of candy and one of those Chick Publishing tracts. They are the cartoon ones used to share Jesus with children. We know that these tracts do grab the attention of the children who receive them and we are hopeful the tract will plant a seed in the heart of a trick-or-treater.

 

We aren't happy at all about Halloween, but we are making the most out of it by being witnesses for Christ.

 

 

Claire in NM

[mommaduck]

Claire, I grew up on Chick tracts. Please, please, please...go and read how non-Christians feel about those tracts. #1 there are so many inaccuracies in those things that they are an embarrassment to Christianity. There are so many better tracts to explaining why you disagree with the holiday. Also...would you want someone (Muslim, Pagan, Jewish, Catholic, Mormon, etc, etc) proselytising your children or would you rather that adult come speak directly to you?

[Blessedfamily]

When in the ENTIRE YEAR will people ever come to your house without an invitation and want something from you?

 

Halloween is an opportunity to share Jesus with someone! We ourselves do not celebrate by dressing up or watching scary movies or going out to trick-or-treat. No, we stay home, making sure our outside lights are on, and when people come to our door asking for a treat, with a prayer, we give them a piece of candy and one of those Chick Publishing tracts. They are the cartoon ones used to share Jesus with children. We know that these tracts do grab the attention of the children who receive them and we are hopeful the tract will plant a seed in the heart of a trick-or-treater.

 

We aren't happy at all about Halloween, but we are making the most out of it by being witnesses for Christ.

 

 

Claire in NM

 

Uh oh...:svengo: I don't think Claire's been following the thread. Please y'all just don't do it. Please.... :huh:

 

(Claire, I'm absolutely not making fun of you at all. :001_smile: I don't celebrate Halloween either. It's just that you just missed the world's record longest thread about tracts and Halloween and it was going on two threads at once like a double hula-hoop contest.:001_smile: )

Edited October 21, 2008 by Blessedfamily

[mommaduck]

Uh oh...:svengo: I don't think Claire's been following the thread. Please y'all just don't do it. Please.... :huh:

 

(Claire, I'm absolutely not making fun of you at all.:001_smile: It's just that you just missed the world's record longest thread about tracts and Halloween and it was going on two threads at once like a double hoola-hoop contest.:001_smile: )

:iagree: Read the thread...please read the thread (where is the begging guy?) :tongue_smilie:

[Saille]

OMM, if this had been a double hula-hoop contest, I would have looked like a Twister contestant in a train wreck.

 

Peek A Boo, would you be wearing the cat woman costume?

[Peek a Boo]

OMM, if this had been a double hula-hoop contest, I would have looked like a Twister contestant in a train wreck.

 

Peek A Boo, would you be wearing the cat woman costume?

 

LOL! you betcha :)

 

I was just pulling that out today in fact --i need to touch up a couple of stitches before HW......

[Claire in NM]

Sorry, fellow WTMers. I just read the initial thread and shared my Halloween activities without having looked at any of the replies. I really thought you really wanted to know, so I told you.

 

Oh, I agree that the Chick Publishing tracts can be pretty scary. Keep it light, but share the message: God wants a personal relationship with people and He does that through His Son Jesus.

 

Please accept my apologies. I hadn't realized that this had already offended so many.

 

Claire in NM

[Blessedfamily]

Sorry, fellow WTMers. I just read the initial thread and shared my Halloween activities without having looked at any of the replies. I really thought you really wanted to know, so I told you.

 

Oh, I agree that the Chick Publishing tracts can be pretty scary. Keep it light, but share the message: God wants a personal relationship with people and He does that through His Son Jesus.

 

Please accept my apologies. I hadn't realized that this had already offended so many.

 

Claire in NM

 

Claire,

 

We most certainly do want to know what you think and feel. It just got really heated and I was trying to cool things off with humour.:001_smile:

[Apiphobic]

Sola Michelle, here's my answer to your earlier post.

 

Again, I think you're right that I've chosen an example that's not a direct parallel. You're certainly making me hone my thinking! Thanks!

 

I consider faith extraordinarily personal. I would have no problem having a discussion with someone about why their faith is meaningful to them. I would have no problem having a theological argument with someone who was being respectful. I honor the faith and religious journeys of others, and I believe there's always more to learn.

 

But I believe that proselytizing directed at anyone who has not directly asked about your religion is inappropriate. And I think that if it's clear the person is asking out of curiosity about you, rather than the religion, there's a line to tread there, out of basic respect.

 

I believe proselytizing to other people's minor children is inappropriate, regardless of the setting or how "within their rights" the people doing it may feel.

 

I do think that the "one true faith" argument, while it can be the foundation of a deep and wondrous religious life, also attracts people who like "shoulds" for their own sake, and I think that particular type of person is predisposed to feel entitled to push that viewpoint on others. Being right becomes a security blanket, and becomes a substitute for self-examination and religious growth. I've had some bad experiences with those folks and tracts. Somehow, it never seems to be sweet, smiling people saying, "I don't celebrate Halloween, but I just wanted you to know that my God loves you!" sitting there on the lawn. I'd probably find that less offensive.

 

I sat here and considered whether it would be appropriate for me to sit on my lawn and introduce myself to each child as "a real witch", and point out that I don't have warts, and I don't worship the devil, and and and. It would not, in my opinion, be appropriate. Holding an informational event somewhere in conjunction with the season, fine. Introducing your Christian child to my pagan religion without your permission, and saying it's your problem because you're on my lawn, not OK. That's not what you bargained for, and I know it. I can be a better neighbor than that.

 

If you don't like that example (I honestly can't remember whether you said you celebrate Halloween, or don't), then let's go back to the caroling one. I would feel it was similarly inappropriate to use your family's caroling as an opportunity to educate your children on their co-opting of the Solstice season.

 

But of course, the views in this editorial do not necessarily reflect the view of others on the board, etc..

 

Thanks for taking the time to talk this out with me.

 

Wow. Just wow.

 

A lot of insightful thoughts in this post. I'm glad you took the time to organize them and write them here.

[sheryl]

are welcomed and interesting, I was hoping to keep the thread more on topic. I can understand how some feel the side issues pertain and perhaps they do, but let's not weave too tangled a web. ;)

 

When I was a child growing up in the 60's parents didn't have to worry about t/t. I used a brown grocery store bag, colored "halloween" designs and off I went. Not too long after there I remember there were "first" reports of tainted candy, etc.

 

As an adult I'm not interested in halloween at all.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

I remember there were "first" reports of tainted candy, etc.

 

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/poison/halloween.asp

[mommaduck]

Sorry, fellow WTMers. I just read the initial thread and shared my Halloween activities without having looked at any of the replies. I really thought you really wanted to know, so I told you.

 

Oh, I agree that the Chick Publishing tracts can be pretty scary. Keep it light, but share the message: God wants a personal relationship with people and He does that through His Son Jesus.

 

Please accept my apologies. I hadn't realized that this had already offended so many.

 

Claire in NM

 

We did want to know. I was raised knowing many people that did that, and used to be that way myself (not at Halloween, but Christmas). BECAUSE of that and having learned that there are certain ways to go about things, I thought it might be helpful for you to read the threads (there is more than one) and perhaps take some things into consideration.

[OnTheBrink]

If HOA membership was mandatory, that should have been disclosed in your buyer's agreement.

 

 

They didn't. And, they threatened to put a lien on the house if we didn't pay. Even after I moved out of the house, they continued to harass me at my new address about the fees. I finally had to write a very strongly worded letter to everyone on the board, including their "attorney" (I'm not sure he was really an attorney) to get them to leave me alone and realize that I didn't even live there anymore.

 

I probably could have fought them legally, but I was going through my divorce and fighting them wasn't a priority at the time.

 

And, AND! (I'm on a roll now) I was always being told by this neighbor or that about some "rule" I was breaking. When I cornered the board president, I found out there IS no rule book at all! Basically, the fees covered clearing the sidewalks from snow in the winter and paid for stupid community parties, of which I didn't participate. The whole thing was ridiculous.

[TravelingChris]

My church is having a trunk or treat this year and we will be doing that. They really enjoy going to church festivals much more than trick or treating but they will do a small amount of trick or treating (only the younger girl actually having a bag) in the nearby neighborhood. Our neighborhood has lots of houses with nice Halloween decorations. I love Halloween. Yes, I am a Christian. I like fall, pretty lights, decorations in general. My dh is looking for areas to live in now and one of the measures whether it is a nice neighborhood we would be comfortable in is decorations. He found one town with almost every house decorated, lots of McCain signs, and fathers playing outside with their kids and people walking. That is the kind of place I am looking for.

 

In all the areas I have lived in, no one has ever just handed my kids a tract. Instead, they do things like have a baggy with a WWJD bracelet, Jesus Loves You bookmark, and a few pieces of candy. That is the typical thng we get from those who want to evangelize. My girls like it. Sometimes they comment that they are Christians too. They tend to wear historical or ethnic costumes. This year my younger will be a peasant girl from the 1800's and my older will wear an Indian outfit (from India). Last year the younger was an Egyptian lady and the older was a Roman lady.

[sheryl]

do you care to share?

 

 

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/poison/halloween.asp

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

do you care to share?

 

All those fears about "tainted candy" and "razor blades in apples" are pretty silly IMO. I still check my kid's candy when we get home, but more for open wrappers that could be unsanitary.