If you pray, please include the victims of the plane crash in Colombia in your prayers

[Lanny]

This was a charter aircraft carrying a Brazilian Soccer team to Medellin, Colombia. There are apparently 6 survivors at this time. Please include the families and friends of those who perished in your prayers, and the survivors and doctors and nurses who are caring for them.  They reported an Electrical problem, circled around Medellin and then crashed South of Medellin, which is our 2nd largest city.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/11/29/plane-carrying-brazilian-soccer-team-crashes-in-colombia-killing-at-least-75.html

 

I told my wife that I believe this is the worst aircraft accident in Colombia, since the December 1995 crash of the American AIrlines Boeing 757 the crew flew into one of our local mountains. There was one other accident, a Colombian airliner that landed on San Andres Island, but that accident only had one fatality and that airline was shut down by our government.

[mama25angels]

Praying

[Lanny]

Praying

 

Thank you.  

[Starr]

I was thinking of you when I read the news today. These big accidents really take a toll on so many people. 

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[RegGuheert]

:grouphug: Pryaing here.

[TheReader]

Oh, this is awful. Praying for everyone affected.

[Lanny]

Thank you.  I just read an updated version of the story.  In addition to the fact that the crew reported an Electrical emergency,  the head of "Aerocivil" (like the F.A.A. in Colombia) said they are also looking into a report from one of the survivors, that the aircraft ran out of fuel, about 5 minutes before the impact.  Their destination was one of the airports in the Medellin area.  Those are short range aircraft and were made in the UK (I think in Ireland from what I read this morning). Very sad...  

Edited November 29, 2016 by Lanny

[Anne]

Oh No - I am so sorry to hear this, Lanny!

 

Praying for everyone involved....

 

Anne

[Rachel]

I heard before they released that it was the soccer team. I immediately thought of my friend who lives in Colombia and was flying last night, I'm thankful she and her family is ok but my heart breaks for the survivors and the families of the victims. Praying!

[umsami]

I saw this at breakfast and my heart just broke for all of Brazil, really.  What a tragedy.  Praying for all, including the survivors and first responders.

[Lanny]

It is  always easy to jump to conclusions about the cause of  aircraft accidents, but Aerocivil will investigate this fully.  The crew had reported an Electrical issue (Emergency?) and also, apparently, one of the survivors believes they ran out of fuel, about 5 minutes before the impact.  Those are Short-Range aircraft, which is why they could not fly nonstop from Sao Paolo to Medellin.  With time, they will figure out if it was the Electrical issue, or Fuel Starvation, or the pilots losing awareness and forgetting to fly their aircraft, because they were distracted by the Electrical issue. Possibly they thought they had more fuel remaining, before they approached the Medellin area, than they actually had on board.   Maybe a combination of factors contributed to the accident.  I believe there are more accidents, per flight hour, of Charter flights, than there are of Scheduled airline flights. The company operating this aircraft is or was based in Venezuela, but they moved part or all of their operations to Bolivia. Probably this charter cost much less, than if they had chartered an aircraft from a scheduled airline. I have included them in my prayers today. The survivors are extremely fortunate, because the accident was so close to the city of Medellin, which I assume is like the city of Cali and has excellent hospitals and doctors to care for them. 

 

I believe this is the worst aircraft accident in Colombia since the reckless and incompetent pilots of an American Airlines Boeing 757 flew into one of our local mountains, on 20 December 1995 while they were approaching our airport (CLO, Cali, Colombia).  That accident had a number of human survivors and also 1 or 2 dogs survived.  

[TravelingChris]

Yes, I have been praying.

[TheReader]

I heard before they released that it was the soccer team. I immediately thought of my friend who lives in Colombia and was flying last night, I'm thankful she and her family is ok but my heart breaks for the survivors and the families of the victims. Praying!

 

 

 

I saw this at breakfast and my heart just broke for all of Brazil, really.  What a tragedy.  Praying for all, including the survivors and first responders.

Just to clarify, it was A soccer team, from a small town in the south of Brazil, and not THE national soccer team of Brazil.

 

No less devastating in terms of human life, and infinitely more devastating for those in the particular small town where the team is from, but a bit less devastating to the nation of Brazil as a whole.

[DawnM]

I haven't even had time to watch the news lately, but I did catch a bit of this this am as I was getting ready for work.

 

Horrible for all involved.

[Lanny]

A little bit of good news: The government of the Colombian "Department" where the accident occurred (Antioquia)  reduced the total number of people aboard from 81 to 77.  

 

A little bit of bad news. My wife told me that one of the people who had survived has passed away.

 

A little bit of good news: They found the "Black boxes" (actually, they are not Black)

 

There will be 3 days of mourning in Brazil now.

 

This Brazilian  Soccer team had (apparently from what I read) done amazingly well, recently. Something like the Chicago Cubs in Baseball.  The Colombian team they were going to play 2 games against, in Medellin, suggested to the League that the Brazilian team be declared the Champions.  

 

If you look at photos of the aircraft, it is amazing that anyone survived.  

[Lanny]

I just read this on a Wikipedia page: If this is correct, then I suspect the survivor who said the aircraft ran out of fuel about 5 minutes before the crash may be correct:

 

"The distance between the two airports is 1,605 nautical miles (2,972 km), slightly exceeding the specified range of the Avro RJ85, which is 1,600 nautical miles (2,963 km).^[12] At 22:00 local time on 28 November (03:00 UTC, 29 November), the crew declared an electrical emergency while flying in Colombian airspace between the municipalities of La Ceja and La Unión.^[8] The aircraft later crashed in Cerro Gordo, located in La Unión, at an altitude of 10,820 ft (3,300 m)."

 

I suspect that Fuel Exhaustion may be among the probable causes of this accident.    We have a lot of mountains in Colombia. They do not move and pilots must be aware of their aircraft position and altitude at all times.

 

This is the Wikipedia URL:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaMia_Airlines_Flight_2933

 

And here's another quote I find  troubling: "At the time of the accident, CP-2933 was the only plane that could fly in LaMia's fleet of three RJ85s, as the other two were being repaired."

 

I was an airline employee and I do not believe LaMia should be called an airline (FAR Part 121 in the USA). I think it should be called a Charter operator .  

 

One of the survivors had his right leg amputated today, but that's  a lot better than dying.  There were 21 journalists aboard, including 6 people from Fox Sports Brazil.

 

So sad for everyone who was on board and their friends and families...

 

ETA: I read this after posting the above

The flight attendant who survived the accident stated that the aircraft ran out of fuel. This is being investigated by the UAEAC.^[29] The person in charge of the investigation stated that there "is no evidence of fuel in the aircraft".^{[1]"    If she said that, she may be correct, if there is no fuel in the tanks.}

Edited November 30, 2016 by Lanny

[Insertcreativenamehere]

This is so sad!

[6packofun]

Very sad.  I have been thinking of them and praying today for those who loved them and cheered them on.  *sigh*  Gone so young in the prime of their lives!

[Lanny]

They will explore *all* possibilities, before determining a "Probable Cause" or multiple contributing causes. This was the worst aviation accident in Colombia, since the  2 reckless incompetent moron pilots of American Airlines flew their Boeing 757 into a mountain, just North of the Cali, Colombia airport (CLO), on December 20, 1995,  At this time, from what I know of Airline operations and Accident investigations, if I were going to assume, the first thing I would assume is that they were enormously reckless, operating that aircraft, nonstop, between those 2 cities. That was, apparently, the absolute maximum range of that aircraft.  That is totally crazy and illegal in Scheduled Airline operations (which this was not) and  probably in all IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) operations.  I told my wife last night, "imagine if our Avianca flight from Bogota to Orlando, when they were just South of Orlando and they called the F.A.A.  on the radio, to be vectored into the airport, if they had been told to go 50 or 100 miles North of there and then turn around and fly South, or if they had been told to go into a Holding Pattern, for 30 minutes or an hour, or if they had been told to divert to Atlanta or some other nearby city and did not have the remaining fuel to do that".   Aircraft rarely fly in a straight line and doing that with the maximum range of an aircraft is absolutely reckless and suicidal.  Winds are another factor. I remember on that flight up to Orlando, we had a Tailwind most of the way, but as we got closer to Florida, we had Headwind of 100+ MPH. That consumed more fuel on that flight.    They are hoping to be able to interview the Bolivian Flight Attendant who reported that the aircraft had run out of fuel, today.  Hopefully, she is well enough that she can do that today.  This is so sad for the families and friends of the victims.

[Lanny]

When she was cooking our Breakfast my wife told me that tonight, in the stadium in Medelllin, where they were supposed to play 2 games, there will be a Memorial service. Everyone will wear White. I hope there will be a lot of people who attend!

 

I told her that I believe it was suicidal to make that flight nonstop and that if they had stopped in Ecuador for fuel, or even here in Cali, they would be alive now, but that would have cost time and money.  They probably had enough fuel aboard to land OK in Cali, which is 192 miles, airport to airport, from Medellin.

 

And then my wife asked why they didn't fly commercial. More money I assume.  My wife reminded me that in October 2014, when we were deplaning from, a LAN Colombia flight,  in Bogota, we saw that one of the 2 professional Soccer teams in the city of Cali (The team name is AMERICA) had been on the flight with us.  They must have boarded before we did.

 

One of the players had been informed by his wife, before the flight, that she was pregnant. She gave him a pair of baby shoes.   Many sad stories...  My wife told me that the co-pilot was a woman and she asked me who is responsible and I told her that, always, the ultimate responsibility is with the Captain. 

[maize]

So, so sad. Praying for the families of all involved and for the survivors.

[Lanny]

I tried to post a photo of the Brazilian team, taken in front of the aircraft, before the flight, but I couldn't figure out how to do that. It was a small image I downloaded from a Facebook post, that I've seen online in various places.  Then, I read a story quoting an Avianca co-pilot, whose flight to Medellin was in the air at the time of the emergency and then the ultimate disaster.  The last thing from the flight, on the radio,  repeatedly, was that they wanted vectors to the runway.  I believe they'd run out of fuel and then later said they had a total electrical failure.  He said the controller, a woman, was crying and I think there were tears shed, by a lot of pilots who were approaching Rionegro airport in Medellin, Colombia, on Monday night.  This was our worst aviation accident in almost 21 years in Colombia and both of them seem to have been caused by pilots who were reckless incompetent morons, but that is a determination that will be made by Aerocivil, after they investigate all possible causes.  

[Lanny]

My wife and I watched the Memorial service on TV tonight. It was 90+ minutes. Very sad. The stadium was approximately 90% full. They had to close the gates, before it filled up, because there were approximately 120K people outside the stadium, trying to get in and they were afraid there might be a security issue. They had large TV screens outside the stadium, for people to watch on.

 

Probably the most emotional speaker was the Foreign Minister of Brazil. Understandably, it was extremely difficult for him.

 

A few minutes after I post this, it will be 48 hours since the accident.

[Guest]

This is all so tragic. :(

[Lanny]

This is all so tragic. :(

 

 

Yes. It is horrible. That flight, nonstop, in that aircraft, was almost impossible. Those are short range aircraft, best for flights of approximately 2 hours.    It will be months, before the Colombian investigation is completed. They must investigate everything that might possibly be involved, but it seems to have been caused by negligence. Please include the families and friends of those who perished, in your prayers. Please include the survivors and their families in your prayers, along with the doctors and nurses who are taking care of them.  

[TravelingChris]

I have always had a fright of charters (and with that little in way of airplanes, I think this so called airline was a charter).  I think they are much less financially stable and thus corners are cut that can affect safety.  I did read many years ago that the safety record of charters is worse.  And then when that regional airline crashed in Buffalo a few years ago, I found out how stressed the pilots of the regionals are and how little they make.  (The article in the Washington Post was how they live in group homes near the airport with lots of people per home and switching out beds type of thing which was something that I thought only happened with agricultural workers and others in very precarious situations because of low pay and legal status)>

[Lanny]

I have always had a fright of charters (and with that little in way of airplanes, I think this so called airline was a charter).  I think they are much less financially stable and thus corners are cut that can affect safety.  I did read many years ago that the safety record of charters is worse.  And then when that regional airline crashed in Buffalo a few years ago, I found out how stressed the pilots of the regionals are and how little they make.  (The article in the Washington Post was how they live in group homes near the airport with lots of people per home and switching out beds type of thing which was something that I thought only happened with agricultural workers and others in very precarious situations because of low pay and legal status)>

 

I 100% agree with you about Charters. I absolutely believe that is true, but I have no statistics to back that up.  I believe that applies to aircraft flights, and also, to long distance buses here in Colombia and in the USA. We have had a couple of terrible accidents in recent years, where Charter buses have been involved in fatal accidents. There is something about "Familiarity breeds contempt", but the other side of that has to do with experience of the Pilot(s) or Bus Drivers on that route.

 

That said, I had a friend who flew Charter Jets and I flew with him, a couple of times, when he was doing FAA Check Rides. Once in a Lear Jet and once in a Fan Jet Falcon (which spoiled me for the Lear Jet, LOL). He was an ex Air Force Pilot, so he had been thoroughly trained.

 

I went on a Charter once, from Dallas/Ft. Worth to Cancun, on Sun Country Airlines, but looking back I think they also had scheduled operations (FAR Part 121, Air Carrier  operations).   I have also been on Ferry flights, when aircraft were finished with their 750 hour check in our Maintenance Base, or coming in for that,   I have ridden in the cockpit a few times and when one is taking off, or landing, a lot of things happen and they happen very quickly. Especially when approaching an airport at night. 

 

Yes, I agree with you also about the working conditions of Pilots and Flight Attendants who work for Regional Airlines in the USA.  They do not seem to have (or did not a few years ago) "Duty Regs" that limit the number of hours they can fly, the hours of rest they must have, etc.  Years ago, I knew someone (actually at least 2 people) who went to work for (I think) Piedmont and then U.S. Airways.  Flight Attendants. They would begin at 7 A.M., too early for them to eat Breakfast in the hotel, and end at 10 at night, too late for them to eat Dinner, and I forget how many take offs and landings they made during one day . Way too many for the pilots not to be tired and impaired.

 

Last night, after the Memorial service ended, my wife wrote something on her Facebook and she marked it "Sad".  I "shared" that on my Facebook page this morning and I marked it "Angry".  If people in Colombia are "Sad" and "Angry", I cannot imagine how the people in Brazil are doing.

 

THE ACCIDENT INVESTIGATION, SO FAR, HAS  FOUND NO TRACE OF FUEL,IN OR NEAR THE AIRCRAFT.  Nothing in the tanks, nothing in the fuel lines, nothing near the aircraft.

 

The Pilot was, IMO, reckless and incompetent. If he had lived, they probably would have convicted him of Manslaughter or Murder, and put him into a prison here in Colombia.   

 

This URL has the last few minutes of the radio conversation, between the aircraft and the Approach Control at the airport in Rionegro, near Medellin. It shows the words, in Spanish and in English of what was said.    I have not been on a flight that stopped there since the early 90's, but I seem to recall mountains on both sides, during the Final Approach, so one needs to be aware of the terrain and the Approach procedures that might be used, before contacting Approach Control on the radio.

  

 

I wonder where the pilot of the La Mia aircraft learned how to fly and if he has an Airline Transport license or a Commercial license.  

[TravelingChris]

I agree completely with you Lanny.  The entire escapade is absolute negligence on the part of this so called airline.  I am just a civilian who never worked in aviation like you Lanny but even I know that planes normally carry more than enough fuel for landing.  I have often heard of news reports where a plane that had problems with their landing gear would be ordered to fly around for a half hour or so to use up most of the fuel before making their landing.  I know that when we were returning to the US from living overseas, we had a plane going from NYC to Orlando and it went quite a way out over the Atlantic because of bad weather. So yes, I consider running out of fuel to be major negligence.

[Lanny]

I just read this on the Wikipedia page about this accident.  I'm proud of Avianca for doing this.  They sent 44 Psychologists.  I have P.T.S.D.  All of the people who survived this crash, and many of the people who worked on the aftermath, will now have P.T.S.D. The families of the victims will naturally be devastated.  One of the most emotional people to speak last night, during the Memorial service, was the wife of one of the players for the Colombian team the Brazilian team was supposed to compete against last night.    My wife wondered how the woman was able to speak, in front of such a huge crowd like that. She must have taken a lot of medicine, to calm her down before she spoke.  

 

"Airlines[edit]

Avianca, Colombia's flag carrier and largest airline, provided 44 psychologists to help in the counseling of the families of the victims. The airline, by request of the Colombian and Brazilian governments, also provided logistical support and transportation to Medellín of medical personnel from Brazil to help with the identification of the bodies.^[40] On Twitter, Avianca expressed its regrets over the incident and stated that "our prayers are with the families of the victims"

[Lanny]

To conclude this thread:   For the past 3 days, my wife and I have been reading things, hearing things on audio and video recordings, and watching TV. Every hour or so, we learned something new, usually something that astonished us. Except for the survivors, and the people investigating the accident and  those who are cleaning it up, for those of us in Colombia, this is not going to be in the news very often in the future. We know most of the horrible details already. The deceased left Colombia today. Most of them on a Brazilian Military aircraft headed to the small city in Southern Brazil where the Soccer team was located. The crew, to Bolivia, in a Hercules aircraft. And one went to Venezuela and one went to Paraguay.  With the exception of the Pilot, we are sad for all of them, and for their families, because they were victims of a horrible tragedy that was completely avoidable.  The Pilot did so many things wrong, and dishonestly, that any one of them would probably cause him to go to prison here in Colombia, for Manslaughter or Murder, had he survived the accident.  Before they took off from Santa Cruz, Bolivia, the flight was doomed, but I believe he had flown, recklessly like that, before, and gotten away with it. As my wife called it today, "Russian Roulette".  The Flight Plan he filed was false. He filed the flight plan from Cobija, Bolivia, which is in Northern Bolivia, across from Brazil, to Rionegro airport near Medellin.  The Colombian aviation authority (AeroCivil) would have rejected the Flight Plan, had he filed for a nonstop flight from Santa Cruz to Medellin. One reason for not stopping for fuel in Cobija was that the flight left Santa Cruz late, because they were looking for the Video Game of one of the Soccer players. And, the airport in Cobija only operates during daylight hours.  He flew  directly over the airport in Leticia, Colombia, where he could have landed and refueled. He could have landed and refueled in  Bogota.  He never declared an emergency. To do that,  one simply says "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday".   I suspect (and the investigation hopefully will learn exactly when the aircraft had total fuel exhaustion, when they examine the "Black Boxes") that when he called Rionegro Approach Control, the first time, on the radio, that he was already out of fuel, or that it was very shortly before he ran out of fuel.   When the Controller finally got the message that he was in big trouble, she sent the aircraft that were ahead of him, waiting to land at Rionegro (and below his altitude) off in various directions.  He kept asking for Vectors, and I believe that he had absolutely no idea of his position, or how to approach Rionegro airport under IFR (Instrument Flight Rules). Rionegro airport is at an elevation of approximately 7000 feet ASL (Above Sea Level).   I listened to the Audio recording of the last few minutes of the radio conversation, 5 or 10 times and I believe the Controller is not at fault in any way, because he never declared an emergency (although he later said that he was out of fuel and had electrical failure).  He never said "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday" which she would have picked up on, instantly.  When she'd lost Radar contact with him and asked his heading and his altitude, he reported he was at 9000 feet at the VOR (a VOR is a radio navigation aid for aircraft).   The Copilot of an Avianca flight that was also approaching Rionegro said that when he heard that, he knew the Bolivian aircraft was not going to make it and that he and the Captain both had tears in their eyes or were crying.. From that, I assume that at the VOR, one needs to be at a higher altitude. The problem is the terrain, which is mountains. He descended on his own, not knowing the terrain under him, which was deadly.   This morning, I saw a photo of coffins of some of the Soccer players, with flags of their team on top of the coffins.  How sad this is.      Fuel starvation accidents are 0.5% of aircraft accidents. This was absolutely avoidable.  I am sure they will look at thousands of different things and in 3 to 6 months, they will release the final report of the Probable Cause(s), but that is all going to point back to the Pilot.   The Pilot was one of the owners of the aircraft or the company.  There was another aircraft with a problem approaching Rionegro at the same time. They were ahead of the LaMia from Bolivia and they were being given landing priority because of a fuel leak. I think they were enroute from Bogota to San Andres Island, but diverted to Medellin. An Airbus 320 operated by Viva Colombia, a "low cost" operator.  My guess is that if the Controller had known the dire situation of the Bolivian aircraft, earlier, she would have also sent the Viva Colombia A320 off in a direction, away from the airport, as she did one or two Avianca flights and a LAN Colombia flight, and given the Bolivian plane the fastest possible descent to the runway.   If you have read this far, PLEASE MEMORIZE THIS: There was an employee of LaMia aboard who I think was a Mechanic for the aircraft  and they sent him along on the trip. He and the flight attendant who survived were seated in the rear of the aircraft. He said that he did exactly what he was supposed to do.     He placed his luggage between his legs and he got into the Brace Position (Fetal position).  Possibly he left the hospital today. STUDY THE SAFETY INSTRUCTIONS, BEFORE YOUR FLIGHT DEPARTS FROM THE GATE. THEY ARE ON A CARD IN THE SEATBACK IN FRONT OF YOU.  The flight attendant is also in Good condition.  Tomorrow, in that small city in Southern  Brazil, they will have a Memorial Service for the Players and everyone from that city who was killed in the teams stadium. 

[Rachel]

Oh Lanny,that is awful.

[Happy]

I'm not saying any of this to be confrontational at all....just wanted to add to the conversation. Your distress is clear and very understandable under the circumstances.

 

 I have to believe the Captain wanted to live and would not have knowingly jeopardized his own life, not to mention the entire flight.  Did he make major mistakes? Something bad certainly happened. Why did the first officer not point out issues?

 

It does look like the plane ran out of fuel. Was that incompetence or was it a hidden issue? Was there an electrical issue that kept the instruments from showing him onboard fuel? Yes, he should have had an abundance of fuel in case of emergency....did the airport not fuel his jet fully? Was there an unexpected headwind? DId instrumentation get scrambled so they were far off course? Was the pilot on some sort of drug that kept him from focusing? One of the most suspect situations is when the pilots are distracted by some problem and forget to fly the plane. It does happen.

 

I still have questions and I hope, eventually, clarity will come to this incident. Everything we can learn about what went wrong will help future flights be safer. That's a cold comfort for those families.

 

One thing I will mention...my dh is the director of operations for a small charter airline. As it happens they fly only professional sports teams on 737 and 757 Boeing jets...so a sports team going down is one of our nightmares. Upthread you seemed to have questions about training, experience, and regulation of charter pilots. Believe me, Charter pilots are well regulated and trained in the US--most countries are similar, but neither of us know South American flying at all. (My dh has flown all over the US, Canada, much of Mexico, and all of Europe. He oversaw flying in the middle east a few stressful years ago.) The FAA has strict guidelines on rest, work, and flight times. Yearly training in classroom and simulator, plus a mid year recurrent are required. Medicals are strict. The company is carefully watched by the FAA and TSA.

 

Charters exist for the ease and flexibility of the client. They often cost more than a scheduled airline or even a 'charter' from a major air carrier.

 

If it helps any (and I'm sure it doesn't really) every professional pilot is evaluating scenarios and figuring out what they might do in similar circumstances.

 

 

 

[Lynnae]

This whole situation is so tragic. My son follows soccer closely, and he is devastated that this happened. Thanks for the updates, Lanny. We know we probably won't get many in the US from here on out.

[Lanny]

@Happy  I wrote a  reply and then when I went to post it, the WTM Server said the Private Key or something didn't match and I lost what I wrote earlier.   I appreciate your comments and the job your DH has.  My wife is cooking our Breakfast, so I'm going to  address a few things.

 

The First Officer (Copilot) had been a Model. She had 2 children. Her father owns a TV station. My wife calls her "The Model" and my wife believes that her father paid for her Flight training and then he got her the job with LaMia. That may or may not be true.  During the past  4 days, I listened to the radio conversation between Rionegro Approach Control and the aircraft, 4 or 5 times. I never heard her make a sound. My belief is that the Pilot (Captain) was doing *everything* and that he did not delegate *any* of the workload to her. That was her first International flight.  

 

My belief is that if the Pilot, when he first contacted Rionegro Approach Control, had said "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday" and explained the situation, that the Controller would have sent the other arriving aircraft, including the Viva Colombia A320 that had a fuel leak and had been given priority, off in different directions from Rionegro, so she could get him down to a lower altitude, where she could then vector him into the airport. He was at FL210 when he called into Approach the first time. The airport is at about 7000 feet ASL.  He wanted to be vectored into the airport, from high altitudes, and she explained that she had to get him down to a lower altitude, so she could do that.

 

I am certain they will evaluate every second of the radio conversation and if the Controller contributed to the accident, in any way, that she will be punished.  I wonder if she should have picked up, earlier, on what the Pilot said, although he did not declare an emergency ("Mayday, Mayday, Mayday").  Once she understood, she sent the other aircraft that were ahead of him, which may include the Viva Colombia A320 that was given priority before the LaMia contacted Approach Control, off in different directions, away from the airport.   She has received death threats.

 

I hope they will look at his Flight Training and where and how he got a license to fly a large high performance aircraft like that.I wonder if he paid a bribe, to get his license? His flight training seems to have been extremely poor. Hopefully, they will look into the Bolivian certification procedures, for Airmen and for operators of aircraft of that size. I hope the F.A.A. in DC will look into the Bolivian certifications for pilots who fly into the USA.  Most or all of the  Avianca fleet is registered in the USA, so there are probably F.A.A. people who work here in Colombia, who have been interested in this accident and shared their thoughts with people in the F.A.A. in DC.

 

Normally, I would agree with you, that the pilot did not want to die, or, kill anyone. In this case, he seems to have been reckless, in many ways, and I suspect that was how he had flown other flights on that aircraft.

 

The Flight Recorders are in excellent condition and will be evaluated next week, in the UK.  I hope they will show the investigators exactly when the aircraft was out of fuel and whether or not there were any inputs from the First Officer, or if the Pilot was doing everything.   Electrical Failure was originally thought to be the main cause, but that was due to the Fuel Starvation. There was no fuel, so no Electrical system, and no fuel for the APU.

[Lanny]

This whole situation is so tragic. My son follows soccer closely, and he is devastated that this happened. Thanks for the updates, Lanny. We know we probably won't get many in the US from here on out.

 

 

One thing I hope  that your DS noticed was the Solidarity of the fans of  Atletico Nacional in Medellin, with the victims and their families and friends and the fans of the Chapecoense team. Opposing teams are rivals, not enemies.  My wife told me that Atletico Nacional was scheduled to fly on that LaMia aircraft, next week.   "There but for the grace of God go I"

 

My wife told me that Atletico Nacional will refund the cost of the tickets for the game that was scheduled for last Wednesday night, if the people request a refund, but they are hoping most of the people will not ask for a refund and they will donate the money to the families of the victims.  I hope they will have a lot of money  to donate!

[Lanny]

This whole situation is so tragic. My son follows soccer closely, and he is devastated that this happened. Thanks for the updates, Lanny. We know we probably won't get many in the US from here on out.

 

Since your DS follows Soccer, you might suggest to him that he follow the topics I am mentioning here...  Evo Morales, the President of Bolivia, rarely, if ever, has kind words for Colombia.  Bolivia is a Socialist country, affiliated with Ecuador and Venezuela, and has Cold relationships with the USA and with Colombia.   Here in Colombia, we were surprised, if not stunned, by his recent comments about the La Mia issues. HE IS FURIOUS and it is not with Colombia.

 

The Fiscal General (Attorney General) of Bolivia has invited the Fiscal General (Attorney General) of Colombia, and also the Fiscal General of Brazil, to a meeting in Santa Cruz, Bolivia, on December 7th.  INTERPRETATION: CRIMINAL PROBLEMS OF ENORMOUS MAGNITUDE

 

In addition to all of the  problems about the tragic flight from Santa Cruz to Medellin last Monday, the Bolivian government is quite interested in the person in what is their F.A.A., who is in charge of certification, who is the son of one of the principals of La Mia.

 

The pilot of the La Mia aircraft had apparently been the pilot for Evo Morales, on one or more occasions.

 

Back to Soccer, which is the interest of your DS:   I suspect they are going to be looking into the connections between La Mia and the Soccer organizations. Not the individual teams, but the league(s).  Why were they pushing teams to fly on La Mia? Why were they telling teams they must fly on La Mia?  In the USA, that would be a "RICO Act" investigation.  This could shake up the Soccer world like it has never been shaken up and may be an enormous scandal for the Soccer world, at least in this part of the world.  Racketeering on the part of the Soccer League(s).

 

The Model/Co-Pilot may not have been at the controls, as my wife believes. Apparently, there were two (2) Co-Pilots aboard and one of them was riding in the "Jump Seat".  My wife thinks she was flying, but something I read said that she was riding in the "Jump Seat", something I have done on 4+ Civil Turbojets.  

 

The pilot had been in the Bolivian Air Force.

[Caroline]

 

 

The English Premeire League has started all games this weekend with a moment of silence for the team.

[Happy]

@Happy  I wrote a  reply and then when I went to post it, the WTM Server said the Private Key or something didn't match and I lost what I wrote earlier.   I appreciate your comments and the job your DH has.  My wife is cooking our Breakfast, so I'm going to  address a few things.

 

The First Officer (Copilot) had been a Model. She had 2 children. Her father owns a TV station. My wife calls her "The Model" and my wife believes that her father paid for her Flight training and then he got her the job with LaMia. That may or may not be true.  During the past  4 days, I listened to the radio conversation between Rionegro Approach Control and the aircraft, 4 or 5 times. I never heard her make a sound. My belief is that the Pilot (Captain) was doing *everything* and that he did not delegate *any* of the workload to her. That was her first International flight.  

 

My belief is that if the Pilot, when he first contacted Rionegro Approach Control, had said "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday" and explained the situation, that the Controller would have sent the other arriving aircraft, including the Viva Colombia A320 that had a fuel leak and had been given priority, off in different directions from Rionegro, so she could get him down to a lower altitude, where she could then vector him into the airport. He was at FL210 when he called into Approach the first time. The airport is at about 7000 feet ASL.  He wanted to be vectored into the airport, from high altitudes, and she explained that she had to get him down to a lower altitude, so she could do that.

 

I am certain they will evaluate every second of the radio conversation and if the Controller contributed to the accident, in any way, that she will be punished.  I wonder if she should have picked up, earlier, on what the Pilot said, although he did not declare an emergency ("Mayday, Mayday, Mayday").  Once she understood, she sent the other aircraft that were ahead of him, which may include the Viva Colombia A320 that was given priority before the LaMia contacted Approach Control, off in different directions, away from the airport.   She has received death threats.

 

I hope they will look at his Flight Training and where and how he got a license to fly a large high performance aircraft like that.I wonder if he paid a bribe, to get his license? His flight training seems to have been extremely poor. Hopefully, they will look into the Bolivian certification procedures, for Airmen and for operators of aircraft of that size. I hope the F.A.A. in DC will look into the Bolivian certifications for pilots who fly into the USA.  Most or all of the  Avianca fleet is registered in the USA, so there are probably F.A.A. people who work here in Colombia, who have been interested in this accident and shared their thoughts with people in the F.A.A. in DC.

 

Normally, I would agree with you, that the pilot did not want to die, or, kill anyone. In this case, he seems to have been reckless, in many ways, and I suspect that was how he had flown other flights on that aircraft.

 

The Flight Recorders are in excellent condition and will be evaluated next week, in the UK.  I hope they will show the investigators exactly when the aircraft was out of fuel and whether or not there were any inputs from the First Officer, or if the Pilot was doing everything.   Electrical Failure was originally thought to be the main cause, but that was due to the Fuel Starvation. There was no fuel, so no Electrical system, and no fuel for the APU.

 

Ugh...those stories of her possible lack of ambition or potential bribes do not inspire confidence at all.

 

Several years ago, I read of a crash in Japan (I'm doing some holiday baking so not taking the time to look it up) but the plane flew into a mountain. The point--Eventually it was found out that the first officer probably saw and understood the Captain was in trouble and never said a word. In the Asian culture, disagreeing or correcting a senior officer or someone older was(is?) just not done. Training was revised and it was emphasized that the less senior person was speak up if the plane was off course or otherwise in danger.