Girls Scouts vs. American Heritage Girls

[kentuckymom]

Kittygirl will start kindergarten next week, which means she's eligible to join one of these scouting groups. She'd really like to try one, because DH is and Eagle scout and Squirrelboy was a Cub Scout and is now a Boy Scout and she's seen how much fun he's had.

 

So now I'm looking for reviews on GSA vs. AHG. I'm wondering specifically whether people prefer the way one of the groups is run, the activities the girls do, etc. I know AHG is specifically Christian and GSA is open to any religion or lack thereof and that GSA has some positions on social issues that AHG disagrees with and vice versa. That's not the kind of information I'm looking at.

 

My questions are along the lines of, is the new Journeys program in GSA as lame as I've heard it is, or does it have good aspects? What's the kindergarten program like for AHG. Is having a multiage troop like AHG a good thing, or do you love the level specific troops of GSA?

 

Thanks for any help you can give me! Oh, and these are the only two girl scouting groups in town and I have no desire to start a new group, so please don't waste your time telling me about an alternate organization that you love. That's great for you, but not helpful for me.

 

I've really loved the Cub Scout and now the Boy Scout programs. I wish BSA had something like Venturing Crews for elementary school, but, alas, that doesn't exist.

[Faithr]

There have been a couple of very recent threads on this very topic.  You might want to do a search.

[MistyMountain]

It really depends on the troop itself I think. My dd is a girls scout and she really likes it. It seems weekly meetings and events are similar to what the cub scouts do since I have both. Earning badges is different for girls scouts but a lot is similar.They even sing some of the same songs and their camps are on opposite sides of the same lake in my area. It is similar to Boy Scouts in that if you stick with it all the way through it looks good. They do camps, some outdoor stuff and STEM activities.

Edited August 2, 2016 by MistyMountain

[SKL]

I prefer AHG for the types of activities - they tend to be more comparable to Boy Scouts.  My kids joined at the Tenderheart level (ages 6-9) and they did a nice mix of outdoor, indoor, and service-oriented activities.  They have a brief devotion and prayer at the end of each meeting.  While they do some things together (all ages), the group badge work is done within the girls' levels.  They do let the 5yos tag along with the Tenderhearts when they have nothing else going on.

 

I can't say too much about what the 5yos do, as we don't seem to have more than 1 or 2 in our troop, who are there because of an older sibling.  I know AHG has a program for them - they earn beads for a necklace as they learn parts of the oath etc.  This year a mom has agreed to be a formal leader of that group.

 

From what I could gather about the girl scouts near us, they didn't do camping and similar stuff.  The troop at my kids' school seemed to always be doing crafts with felt.  I know that they do more outdoor things in some areas.  If I were you, I'd call and ask someone involved with the local groups what activities they do and what a typical meeting looks like.

 

To your question about mixed age groups: I can't see much of a down side.  They do prevent younger girls from doing certain higher-risk activities, based on established AHG rules.  In practice, our troop meetings are mostly age segregated until the devotion/prayer part, but outside activities are mixed.

Edited August 2, 2016 by SKL

[Carol in Cal.]

Make sure you look at the promises/commitments that each expects of their girls.  I'm not sure how comfortable I would be with either one at this point, based on that and their stances.

 

I think that I would hunt up a 4H club.  Those have tons of diverse activities, and are kind of appropriately bland in the character department.

[Vida Winter]

We stopped Girl Scouts when the cookie sales got ridiculous. I dreaded that time of year.  I don't know if AHG has a similar type of fund-drive. We have done 4H for the past few years.

[shawthorne44]

DD did the Kindergarten level of AHG last year.   She enjoyed it.  It was sort-of a intro-to-scouting.   There were six Stepping Stones I think they were called.  A stepping stone was a couple of meetings worth.   Each stepping stone had a bible verse they were supposed to memorize, and there was some drawing, and some crafts and some read-alouds.  Lots of playing.  The way girl scouts sometimes discussed the life of its founder, AHG K-level discussed the life of a woman that was blind from an early age.  That was sort of interesting.  

 

I don't know if this was AHH or just our troop, but there was a rule that a parent had to be a teacher in a class, also, camping was done as a family with the the boy's troop.   But, they did different activities.  

 

I will say that there was one bible verse that we skipped entirely.  It was something like, "Do what your government wants you to do."   

 

Our AHG troop didn't do any fundraisers that I noticed.   We paid the yearly dues and camping as we went on the trips.  

 

 

[felicity]

I know it's kind of lame that I respond to every post that mentions Girl Scouts, but I really like the program and have a great time going through it with my daughters. I've also been a leader for my older daughter for 6 almost 7 years and my younger for 3 almost 4.

 

The Journeys can be really lame if all the leader does is read the story and follow the leader guide. There are some fun activities in the guide, but they are unfocused and try to do too much. For instance if there is a Journey about saving water they also stick science stuff in there about making rainbows and character development stuff. That's where my problems come in. So I don't follow the leader guides--there are pages in the guides that discuss the girl outcomes and I use those to create a fun program. So for the water journey we are visiting a nature center and learning about watersheds and wetlands, we're going to a heritage house to learn how they used water 100 years ago, and visiting a water-wise garden. In between those field trips I'll tie it together withe how we use water in our lives. We also do all of the badges offered at each level.

 

GS troops are very leader-driven. If your daughter's leader wants to emphasize cookies, then she will, Journeys, again, she will so you might need to visit a troop or two to see which one works for you and your daughter. Most Daisy troops haven't formed yet and the GS year doesn't officially start until Oct. 1 so you have time. And very few Daisy troops camp. I know there are some, but not a lot--it's intimidating to think about camping with 5yos if you've never done it. Plus there is training the leaders have to do before they can go.

 

Good luck on your decision. I hope whatever you decide your daughter will have fun.

[GoodGrief]

Totally depends on the leaders. Each can be wonderful or awful, depending. Our local AHG did some cool activities, more like Boy Scouts.  BUT the leaders were super uptight, exceptionally homeschool oriented and it got weird sometimes, lol. All my girls' Girl Scout troops were pretty good, and they tended to make non-homeschool friends there, which had value. After ten+ years, I am SO over the cookie sales.

 

It's hard to know how it will go until you are involved.

[shawthorne44]

One thing with G.S.   Can't you just not participate in cookie sales?   I looked at the rewards the girls get and they are a pittance compared to when I was in.  

[Janeway]

Everything I hear about GSA these days is lame. Things have gotten super weird around here. Home schoolers are not even welcome at the local troops. AHG is something I hear a lot of good things about.

[ktgrok]

I actually just contacted both my local girl scout troop and the local AHG troop. The mom that got back to me from Girl Scouts wasn't very friendly..not rude, but not welcoming. The woman from AHG wrote about a full page telling me about what they do, when they meet, the service projects they do, etc etc. Very friendly. Also gave me all the prices up front. And let me know I'd need to do a background check as the participating parent. 

 

Also, in all honesty, the meeting time for our local AHG is such that I could have DH watch my little one. The girl scout meeting is right after school, and I can't bring my son. Not good timing. 

[shawthorne44]

If we didn't have an AHG nearby, I'd have started a G.S. troop for my DD's age.   I'd even started to buy vintage G.S. guidebooks, and the plan was to run a troop in a more old-fashioned manner.  With DOING things, and camping.

[kentuckymom]

Thanks for the tips so far. So far, I've found AHG easier to find out about locally. There's one troop (out of three) that meets relatively close to our house and I've already emailed the leader and gotten a nice response back. I can't even find contact info to learn about local GSA troops. Of course, DH looked stuff up and found out the district office is five minutes away from our house, so I guess I could just go in and ask them.

[shawthorne44]

Yeah, I found the G.S. office hard to communicate with too.   Early on I contacted them saying, "Hey, I'd like to be a leader of a new Daisy troop.   There isn't one near me.  I assume there some training stuff I need to do ahead of time."   It was a little over 10 months later that I heard back from them.  By that time I'd found the AHG troop.  

[felicity]

I've hear and experienced that to an extent. You should be able to get people at the Council offices but in the summer most of our Council people are off running camps. The actual volunteers are on vacations and not checking our emails. I know I don't so if I had a girls asking to join I wouldn't have gotten right back with them. And the Service Units (collection of troops) don't knownuntilnschoolnstarts usually which troops have space and in cases of Daisies, if there is a troop. Not a lot of troop action happens over the summer.

 

Excuses, excuses, I know and it doesn't explain why people don't get back to people throughout the year. But most of us are volunteers and doing the best we can.

[momto10blessings]

I can't say enough good things about AHG. I was a brownie for a year or so and absolutely hated it. I love AHG and how you can tie it into your homeschool curriculum. Or you can just earn the Badges they earn with their troop. Our troop does a lot of service projects that actually gets them in the community serving veterans and elderly and homeless. Not just making cards for soldiers, although we do that too. Each troop will be different, but we have 2 meetings a month plus 1-2 service projects or fun events/month. So it's not a huge commitment. And we aren't expected to be at every single function. We camp several times a year. We haven't had any mall lock ins or glamping trips.

Best of all, no selling Popcorn or cookies!!! We sell Wreaths Across America and have a couple other fundraisers throughout the year but never just selling overpriced crap. That will vary by troop though.

[Joyofsixreboot]

We've done both. My girls preferred GS. AHG here was the mostly sit in the church and do felt crafts thing so again leaders make all the difference.

[G5052]

IMHO the leaders make all the difference.

 

Locally, I know of two outstanding AHG groups that people rave about. I often think I'd love to be involved in retirement!

 

Nothing good about GS here. Really good BS troops, but not for the girls!

[poppy]

Ask about both and see what response you get. I have no experience with AHG.  I had a fantastic time with my Daisy Scouts. The journeys are lame if you do them exactly as written, but, very few leaders do.  It's very very customizable.

 

The problem with Kindergarten daisy scouts is that the leaders are brand new, so, they don't necessarily know what they are going to do.  The leaders are likely just someone who was looking for a troop, saw there wasn't one, volunteered to lead.  So they are still getting their feet wet, taking training (often not til September) and surely don't have the year planned out.  BUT this will be your leader throughout Scouts and that bond becomes something really special.  It's not like cub scouts where there is a pack and leaders can welcome new little ones into an established program.   I don't know if AHG is more like Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts in that way but I do get the sense it's more like the latter.

 

The other thing I like about Girl Scouts is the Council-run programs. I've taken my daughter horseback riding, glass blowing, to a seal rescue center, jewelry making, ropes course, kayaking, to campfire singalongs, and lots more through the regional Girl Scout program. Plus of course summer camp.

[MeghansMom]

I was a Brownie and a Girl Scout when I was young and Meghan was a Daisy. We found out about AHG a few years ago and it has been quite the blessing for us. Meghan has been an Explorer for three years and is a Pioneer this coming year. They do so many things  and are an incredibly supportive group. We camp and go on field trips and do service works. Their patches cover many different areas (you need to earn a patch in each of the six areas) --Heritage Frontier ex. Citizenship and Government, Caring For My Environment, World Heritage, etc.Family Living Frontier--Home Care and Repair, Money Management, Stick Shifts and Safety Belts, etc. Arts Frontier-Textile Arts, Music Appreciation, Photography, etc. Outdoor Skills Frontier-Archery, Outdoor Cooking, Outdoor Skills, etc. Personal Well-Being Frontier--Book Adventurer, Emergency Preparedness, Physical Fitness, etc. Science and Technology Frontier-Aviation, Engineering, Geology, Woman Inventors, Space Exploration, etc. They also have a sports pin program-basketball, martial arts, running, soccer, etc. Some badges you work on as a troop and others you work on independently, your choice. To me, GS was always about the cookies, we did not do much else.

[Tess in the Burbs]

I was a Girl Scout, but my kids babysitter years ago was in it, and both she and her mom had so many complaints about how the program was changing.  I contacted the local office yearly for years and never heard back.  I did know a homeschool mom who started a day time troop and that was awesome, just didn't work for me.  When we moved scouting was the one thing my DD wanted to try so I drove 40 min to an AHG meeting.  It was such a blessing, and I became Vice Coordinator last year...will continue this year as well as be the adult for the Pioneer and Patriot levels(we call them the Pipa's)  I have had these upper age girls over for multiple overnight badge events, we go camping, the girls are true friends to my dd.  I love the women in this group.  It's been amazing.  I still drive that distance to be part of it.  I wish I had done that in our previous state! It's a great organization.  

I will say that any scout group you look in to, will all depend on the leadership and excitement of parents.  We noticed a few had started dropping off last year.  So we found a mom to watch siblings in the church nursery during the meeting so those moms can stay and be involved.  We have been using moms in a rotation for the middle age group, but by doing it that way, were able to nail down 2 great moms to do it this year as a team.   The older girls are pretty much self run with one older girl doing the planning(great leadership).  I'm only helping this year b/c we have so many newer girls that tend to chit chat too much she wants an adult to keep order lol.  

 

But do look into any group in your area.  Like I said, I drive 40 min, but it is so worth it.  not just for my dd, but for me as well. 

[SKL]

I also drive about 30 minutes (each way) for AHG, vs. letting my kids just stay after school on GS night.  I am glad to hear that many others have found AHG worthwhile.

[Mergath]

One thing with G.S.   Can't you just not participate in cookie sales?   I looked at the rewards the girls get and they are a pittance compared to when I was in.  

 

It really depends on the troop. My dd's troop doesn't care if someone wants to opt out, but there are other troops in town here where cookie sales are EVERYTHING and anyone who opted out would be ostracized. There's some peer pressure, because the money earned by each girl goes toward the troop as a whole, so if someone does opt out they aren't contributing financially. Plus there are several badges and events that revolve around sales. 

 

Personally, I hate cookie sales with a passion. I'd rather just write a check to the troop, but they don't let you do that. The rewards are crap and only a small amount of the money actually goes toward the troop- the rest goes toward regional and national admin costs. Gotta pay the CEO's giant salary.  :001_rolleyes:

 

We aren't Christians though, so things like AHG aren't an option for us.

[shawthorne44]

(gasp)  There are badges that revolve around cookie sales?  What is the world coming to?   

 

The cookie sale rewards was the very first problem I noticed with G.S.   When I was a kid and I walked to school in the snow uphill both ways, 400 boxes would earn free two-weeks of sleepover summer camp.  The one I went to had horses.  When I looked, I think 1800 boxes got ONE week of camp.  It isn't like the price of camps has gone up 10X more than the price of cookies.  Selling cookies was a positive experience for me.  But a big part of the motivation was was going to camp that I earned myself.  

eta:

Wow, I googled to see what the CEO salary was. (just a little under 400K)   She spent 65K on a bathroom remodel at her Fifth Avenue office.  

Edited August 3, 2016 by shawthorne44

[chiguirre]

(gasp) There are badges that revolve around cookie sales? What is the world coming to?

 

Those are some of the best badges! Last year we did a badge at Rice University with business school faculty for our cookie badge.