ACORN...is anyone else concerned about this group....

[tibbyl]

Does that in any way discount the fact that I never had to? My point was that it is irregardless whether they check ID's because the majority of the voter fraud is going to be coming from those who MAIL in their ABSENTEE ballots... I only specified Shelby County because the poster I was resonding to is from TN...I posted because someone stated that states require ID so that must in someone prevent fraud...huh? It really is up to the pollling place and the pollster...I've hit some that guess I have an honest face walking in with three kids in tow...I show my voters card and that's all they asked for.

 

Tara

 

Goodness, you are reading much more into my post than was there. I am not involved in voter fraud argument. I was commenting simply because my voting experience over the last 24 years in this area has been dramatically different from yours. The Shelby County Election Commission would be interested to learn of your experience.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Many things are stupid, this is ILLEGAL. They are fraudulently trying to force their candidate into office...Not one of the Obama supporters has spoken to the fact that ACORN is targeting ONLY swing states...so please tell me with all this knowledge and opinion you have to disperse...can you not explain to me why ACORN ONLY targeting swing states is not an issue for you as much as their illegally forging voter registrations? Shouldn't ANY group promoting voter registration be pushing for registration in all states?

 

Tara

 

Please don't burden yourself with any more any real or perceived "knowledge and opinion" I "have to disperse."

 

I'm sorry you're so riled at what I've said, but you need not worry about me riling you further in the future by answering your posts.

 

You appear to have no notion of what is and is not an issue for me. I respectfully bow out of this exchange and extend my guarantee that unless you read my posts, you don't need to be so annoyed in the future on my account.

[tibbyl]

VOTING ABSENTEE in the SWING STATES! As I mentioned before ACORN is not in TN now is it?

 

Tara

 

Tara, I am interpreting your above quote to mean "ACORN is not in TN now."

 

Indeed ACORN has a strong presence right here in your own community. They have a local office in the Cooper-Young area at 1000 S. Cooper here in Memphis.

 

Involving disenfranchised people in the political process has always been a priority for them. As I stated earlier , ACORN ran voter registration drives in my low income minority neighborhood.

[GreenKitty]

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/09/what-does-obama-know-about-acorn-fraud/

What does Obama know about Acorn

 

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_100908/content/01125106.guest.html

If Obama Is Really So Far Ahead, Why Does ACORN Have to Cheat?

 

Makes me sick that their are more registered voters in Indianapolis than the entire population of Indanapolis now! Something needs to be done.

 

I am for photo ID for registering, simple enough. Though Democrats do not want that...hm.

[teamturner]

All the more reason to make it a national requirement.

If you don't ask voters to verify that they are, in fact, registered voters, then how secure can ANY election be?

 

astrid

 

Exactly!! But the minute you even mention requiring a photo id you inevitably here the word "DISENFRANCHISED"! How much does it cost to get a photo ID anyways! Couldn't we just make them free to people below a certain wage level or those on government assistance or something??

[FlockOfSillies]

If there's one thing that ought to be affordable in this country, with all the billions of dollars that all levels of government spend on absolute, utter flim-flam and garbage, GETTING A VALID ID is it.

 

It shouldn't be that hard to scrape together a handful of change off the floor of the Treasury to do it. Protecting our elections process should be one of the government's top three priorities. A trustworty election helps separate us from every banana republic run by a two-bit dictator who becomes president for life.

 

Even if there are a handful of people who simply can't afford it, requiring photo IDs NOW is a step in the right direction. How many elections must be disputed, or stolen, before we fix this? How many ACORNs and their clones must be allowed to disenfranchise the 99.9% of voters who can prove their identities?

 

Why does my right to vote in a free and fair election get trumped by the hand-wringers who want to do everything in their power to make sure that the local crackhead, who doesn't even care enough to register to vote, is "fully enfranchised"??? Because it's all a smokescreen for these groups to play all kinds of tricks with the voter rolls. They want the local crackhead, living or not, citizen or not, to vote early and OFTEN for their guy. Nothing else matters.

[kokotg]

Makes me sick that their are more registered voters in Indianapolis than the entire population of Indanapolis now! Something needs to be done.

 

 

 

I looked at those links, and I'm not seeing the same thing at all. The stats are for the county that Indianapolis is in, not the city itself. I see total 2007 population as 876,804, and registered voters as 677,401. ???

 

As for all the rest, I'll just say that none of the "Obama people" here that I've seen are defending any illegal actions. ACORN is under investigation, and from everything I've heard they're cooperating with the investigation. If they are found to have participated in illegal activities, then they certainly should pay the consequences for that. The arguments I've seen are that:

 

1. Guilt by association is a bit of a tricky thing, and a slippery slope that McCain might well be making a mistake by getting into.

 

2. Election fraud in this country is most certainly a bi-partisan affair. If I started a thread every time the lefty blogs started talking about vote suppression or fraud on the part of conservative groups, I could crash the server in no time. I would refer everyone to Jimmy Carter's book, Turning Point and particularly the chapter "The Dead Voted Alphabetically" for just a bit of insight into the long and proud history of election fraud in the US.

Edited October 9, 2008 by kokotg

[tibbyl]

Exactly!! But the minute you even mention requiring a photo id you inevitably here the word "DISENFRANCHISED"! How much does it cost to get a photo ID anyways! Couldn't we just make them free to people below a certain wage level or those on government assistance or something??

 

In TN, it costs a trip to nearest Dept of Safety office and the same fee as driver license to get a photo ID. I am not certain of this, but I think that none of the local Dept Safety offices here are on the bus route. You have to provide same proof of identity and residence as someone applying for a driver's license.

[Jenny in Atl]

In TN, it costs a trip to nearest Dept of Safety office and the same fee as driver license to get a photo ID. I am not certain of this, but I think that none of the local Dept Safety offices here are on the bus route. You have to provide same proof of identity and residence as someone applying for a driver's license.

 

I actually like the id law, but then the local governments need to do all they can in their power to make sure every eligible voter who wants one can get one easily. :001_smile:

[TN Mama]

In TN, it costs a trip to nearest Dept of Safety office and the same fee as driver license to get a photo ID. I am not certain of this, but I think that none of the local Dept Safety offices here are on the bus route. You have to provide same proof of identity and residence as someone applying for a driver's license.

 

The fee is $12.50 for issue and renewal. After the age of 65 it no longer expires. For those who are mentally or physcially handicapped and unable to drive, there is no fee and no expiration. I just looked this up earlier today.

[kokotg]

...can you not explain to me why ACORN ONLY targeting swing states is not an issue for you as much as their illegally forging voter registrations?

 

I was curious, so I checked (a big map is the first thing on their website, so it was pretty easy). ACORN's voter registration project is in 26 states, including such noted swing states as Texas, California, Connecticut, and Louisiana. If Texas is a swing state now then McCain's in bigger trouble than I thought.

[Jami]

I was curious, so I checked (a big map is the first thing on their website, so it was pretty easy). ACORN's voter registration project is in 26 states, including such noted swing states as Texas, California, Connecticut, and Louisiana. If Texas is a swing state now then McCain's in bigger trouble than I thought.

 

Hmm...here's another recent swing state map

 

http://www.politico.com/convention/swingstate.html

 

It differs from the information you found. I wonder which is more recent.

[kokotg]

no, no--I wasn't saying those are swing states. I'm saying those are the states ACORN's voter registration project is in....my sarcasm got in the way of my actual meaning :) ...I was listing several states they're targeting that are most definitely NOT swing states.

[kokotg]

Here's the link that shows all the states:

 

http://www.acorn.org/

[Jami]

no, no--I wasn't saying those are swing states. I'm saying those are the states ACORN's voter registration project is in....my sarcasm got in the way of my actual meaning :) ...I was listing several states they're targeting that are most definitely NOT swing states.

 

Gotcha. I assume they work in states with larger urban and minority populations. Swing or not. ;) TX as a swing state would definitely be about the end for McCain. :)

[lovemyboys]

And McCain's own father in law, Jim Hensley

 

Bootlegging, Mob Ties, and Gambling

 

 

Then again, there's the whole Kennedy legacy.

 

Not to mention Chicago's political machine or NYC or Louisiana.

 

Just because it existed 50 or 75 years ago, does not make it right or reasonable to put up with it today. Richard Nixon let the election stand as it was in 1960 even though there were cries of election fraud, and some of the areas were very close. He decided for the health of our democracy to accept the outcome without asking for recounts and investigations. In that case, Nixon behaved in a commendable way. That didn't happen in 2000 and look how angry the country was. It took the horror of 9/11 to reunite us (to some extent).

 

We should be outraged. Just because it favors the candidate you prefer doesn't make it right to look the other way. Maybe the concern about this particular group is that they have huge resources and have been able to skirt prosecution so far.

 

There is NO excuse for voter fraud.

The ends don't justify the means.

The whole process should be transparent and noone should be resisting that.

 

If you want to register a football stadium full of students at a university then be prepared to doublecheck each and everyone of them -- is that the legal residence, are they voting absentee from their home state, etc. I question why there is registration and voting going on on the same day, within minutes of each other. That seems to leave little time to verify that the person is ok to be registered before the vote is entered in the system.

[astrid]

Why does my right to vote in a free and fair election get trumped by the hand-wringers who want to do everything in their power to make sure that the local crackhead, who doesn't even care enough to register to vote, is "fully enfranchised"???

 

I sincerely hope that no on in your family ever faces the horrors of addiction. It is my belief that "crackheads" as well as attorneys and doctors and bus drivers and stay at home moms deserve to participate in democracy. Whe we as a society start placing more value on one person's existance than that of another is the point at which I will take down my American flag and get the hell out of Dodge.

 

astrid

[astrid]

Is anyone pointing out that ALL these 'illegal' voters are casting a vote for Obama?

 

And just how the heck would you know that????

 

Come on.

 

astrid

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Then again, there's the whole Kennedy legacy.

 

Not to mention Chicago's political machine or NYC or Louisiana.

 

Just because it existed 50 or 75 years ago, does not make it right or reasonable to put up with it today. Richard Nixon let the election stand as it was in 1960 even though there were cries of election fraud, and some of the areas were very close. He decided for the health of our democracy to accept the outcome without asking for recounts and investigations. In that case, Nixon behaved in a commendable way. That didn't happen in 2000 and look how angry the country was. It took the horror of 9/11 to reunite us (to some extent).

 

We should be outraged. Just because it favors the candidate you prefer doesn't make it right to look the other way. Maybe the concern about this particular group is that they have huge resources and have been able to skirt prosecution so far.

 

There is NO excuse for voter fraud.

The ends don't justify the means.

The whole process should be transparent and noone should be resisting that.

 

If you want to register a football stadium full of students at a university then be prepared to doublecheck each and everyone of them -- is that the legal residence, are they voting absentee from their home state, etc. I question why there is registration and voting going on on the same day, within minutes of each other. That seems to leave little time to verify that the person is ok to be registered before the vote is entered in the system.

 

At least read their side of it. And I know that in this political climate, if certain pundits or columnists say it is so often and loud enough, it is Truth for some people. But I know that many people on this board want to dig and read and sift and know. So I offer =22368&tx_ttnews[backPid]=12387&cHash=b73691350d"]this. And I know it's not enough -- it's only their word for it. But at least... well, there it is.

 

There is no excuse for voter fraud. But there is no excuse for railroading a candidate based on rumors and accusations without hearing the whole matter.

 

As to the election in 2000, I don't think that investigating wrongdoing in a free country is wrong. I can't imagine shining light on a dark corner, even if the corner is eventually empty, is ever wrong.

 

Men love darkness better than light because their deeds are evil. I believe that firmly in my own practical way.

 

Just like the revelations about domestic spying today. Should we have, for the good of national security, just ignored reports that our own citizens were being spied upon? Big, bad ACLU defending that pesky bill of rights. Told to butt out, don't be so nosy, it's national security. Well... ok. But IME, their deeds were evil. And in this case, light is a good, good thing. And I think perhaps as applies to election fraud, voter suppression, the whole package.

 

Same day voter registration is a concept I can't wrap my brain around. But if we're going to keep registering to vote that EASY -- too easy? -- with not enough checks, then the same day thing makes sense. But the "too easy" and "not enough verification" parts do NOT make sense to me. Why would a state *invite* fraud like that? :glare:

 

I'm a bit vehement tonight, but lovemykids, rest assured I'm not angry with you nor upset that you hold your own strong opinion. I'm just adding my own thoughts to the mix.

[monk17]

Discredited Republican voter-suppression expert Ken Blackwell has gone on TV lately with some wild accusations against Barack about a non-existent connection with the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, also known as ACORN.

The accusations have no basis in fact.

The truth is that Barack was never a community organizer or trainer for ACORN, and he was never employed by ACORN in any other capacity. ACORN was not part of the historic voter registration drive that Barack led.

 

Obama did represent ACORN in a successful lawsuit. Does that make him guilty? Of what? John Adams represented a British soldier after the Boston Massacre.

 

Regards,

 

Mike

[nmoira]

It's probably been stated elsewhere in this thread, but an illegal or duplicate voter registration is not the same thing as an illegal VOTE. Voter rolls are purged using existing government databases like DMV records (and, supposedly as a last resort, the Social Security database). If these illegal registrations follow past patterns, then most were the result of canvassers who are paid according to how many people they register padding their incomes.

 

Imaginary people aren't going to show up to vote, unless there's a carefully and highly orchestrated effort on the part of some group. I would suggest that registering celebrity names or using identical data applications would not be something done a party trying trying to submit fraudulent votes.

[ma23peas]

Come on.

 

astrid

 

Because they're saying so, read ...let me help you..

 

Where has ACORN focused MOST of its efforts on voting?

 

The top ten states with more than

 

 

1. Michigan (208k votes)

2. Ohio (238k votes)

3. Pennsylvania ( 149k votes)

4. Florida (147k votes)

5. Nevada (86k votes)

6. New Mexico (74k)

7. Colorado (64k)

7. Missouri (47k)

8. Minnesota (41k)

9. California (38k)

10. Wisconsin (31k)

 

ACORN 'says' they have targeted 20 states, hmmm...funny how their top TEN states reflect 90% of the total voter registrations they have completed this year. Also, those TOP TEN states are the most needed swing states in this election year.

 

Though officially non-partisan, the focus of the ACORN/Project Vote voter drive was on groups leaning Democratic in the presidential contest: African American, young, Latino and low income earners. They are called "historically underrepresented in elections" in a press release issued by the group on Monday. Republicans would call these target groups Democrats.

 

Take a look at these ACORN forms. These are among the more than 800 voter registrations that officials here say they believe are fake, phony, more phony ACORN forms. Under the name Monica Ray, ACORN registered Monica Ray ten times. She has three different birthdates, four different Social Security numbers, six different phone numbers, and they don't even know if this person Monica Ray is real. This is what they're finding. It's really clogging up the system. And, by the way, it's illegal, a felony in most states.

 

So tell me, why would someone register 10x under the same name unless THEY were casting the vote...that's the problem here...it's ILLEGAL, it's outrageous and it's happening in EVERY one of these states...You're talking about 1.1 million votes THEY have registered...in the top 10 SWING states...let's do the math on election night and see if we take these votes out of these swing votes what would we have?

 

And if they believe that EVERY voter's right to vote is soo precious and they're targeting (their own words) "African American, young, Latino, and low income earners..." then why the heck aren't they in Mississippi, Alabama, and South Carolina? Some of the largest African American, young, Latino and low income earners are in THESE states...I can't make it any clearer..

 

Tara

[Laura in VA]

And just how the heck would you know that????

 

Come on.

 

astrid

 

Well, I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that the thousands of illegal voter registrations that ACORN has submitted were not intended to help McCain, since ACORN has endorsed Obama.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters?bid=45&pid=289192

[tibbyl]

The Republicans are upset over ACORN allegations. In year or so prior to election, why not conduct their own ethical well-organized lower income voter registration drives and sell their platform to the lower income people who are left out of the political process? Seems logical to me.

[nmoira]

 

So tell me, why would someone register 10x under the same name unless THEY were casting the vote

Well, someone might register the same name 10x if they were filling out as as many registration cards as possible to pad their income. That's one possible explanation. Typically in cases like this, votes aren't actually made with the bogus registrations.

[nmoira]

Well, I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that the thousands of illegal voter registrations that ACORN has submitted were not intended to help McCain, since ACORN has endorsed Obama.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters?bid=45&pid=289192

 

Voter registrations do not help a candidate, votes do. Much more information is needed before anyone can say this is an organized scheme to have fraudulent votes counted in the election.

[nmoira]

 

Well, someone might register the same name 10x if they were filling out as as many registration cards as possible to pad their income. That's one possible explanation. Typically in cases like this, votes aren't actually made with the bogus registrations.

BTW, this manner of fraud is something we saw frequently in Oregon when those gathering petition signatures were (usually) paid by the signature. It's unfortunate, but it's human nature.

[ma23peas]

Voter registrations do not help a candidate, votes do. Much more information is needed before anyone can say this is an organized scheme to have fraudulent votes counted in the election.

 

Fraudulent/illegal voting forms in 12 of their 20 target states? That doesn't sound organized? Something's rotten in Denmark and those who will benefit from this mess are turning their nose...nice.

 

Tara

[nmoira]

Fraudulent/illegal voting forms in 12 of their 20 target states? That doesn't sound organized? Something's rotten in Denmark and those who will benefit from this mess are turning their nose...nice.

 

Tara

This is a possibility, but not necessarily the case. It's not an organized attempt to perpetrate voting fraud unless there is some mechanism to actually cast votes. Records kept, people assigned to cast votes under certain names, particular addresses used from which to send absentee ballots (depending on the mechanism), etc.

[kokotg]

 

Though officially non-partisan, the focus of the ACORN/Project Vote voter drive was on groups leaning Democratic in the presidential contest: African American, young, Latino and low income earners. They are called "historically underrepresented in elections" in a press release issued by the group on Monday. Republicans would call these target groups Democrats.

 

 

 

Republicans would be absolutely correct that if poor people and people of color were represented at the polls in the same proportion as wealthy people and white people, it would be very bad news for Republicans indeed (that's why they're so worried about the Senate race in GA right now). This doesn't mean that these groups aren't "historically underrepresented." They absolutely are. Do you seriously want to argue that there's something unethical about targeting voter registration efforts toward the very groups that are least likely to vote because if black folks voted in the same numbers as white folks it would hurt Republicans? Like I've said, this is a completely separate issue from anything fraudulent ACORN might have done. Fraud is, of course, never okay and should always be investigated. But the fact that high voter turnout hurts Republicans is a problem Republicans need to be looking into their own party to solve.

[ma23peas]

Tara, I am interpreting your above quote to mean "ACORN is not in TN now."

 

Indeed ACORN has a strong presence right here in your own community. They have a local office in the Cooper-Young area at 1000 S. Cooper here in Memphis.

 

Involving disenfranchised people in the political process has always been a priority for them. As I stated earlier , ACORN ran voter registration drives in my low income minority neighborhood.

 

Tennessee is NOT on their list of registration counts for this election year..I'm just quoting them.

 

Tara

[ma23peas]

This is a possibility, but not necessarily the case. It's not an organized attempt to perpetrate voting fraud unless there is some mechanism to actually cast votes. Records kept, people assigned to cast votes under certain names, particular addresses used from which to send absentee ballots (depending on the mechanism), etc.

 

Let me make it even more clearer for you, they have been hiring felons to register these disenfranchised voters..do you know which felons ACORN officials are targeting??? Those with identity theft backgrounds...now what's wrong with felons that did petty theft or driving drunk? They are foolish in many accounts, but to actually create a trail of records with a memo saying "get felons with identity theft backgrounds"...there is something in the law called preponderance of evidence..they don't need documents and people assigning, 12 states with rampant illegal voting on BEHALF of the organization is enough to create issue.

 

TAra

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

I haven't read the responses yet, but I think there are a lot of things going on in both parties that are done by people who get a little too over-invested in their candidate and are a bit off their rocker. I truly do not believe that John McCain positioned someone in the crowd to yell, "Kill him," nor do I believe that all McCain supporters agree with this. I do not believe that John McCain organized the efforts to try to keep people whose homes had been foreclosed upon from voting nor do I believe all McCain supporters agree with this.

 

I have seen no evidence that ACORN, the organization, orchestrated fraudulent registrations. I do not disagree that there are some invalid registration forms, but I have seen no evidence that the organizers and those in charge ordered this to be done.

 

Not only could it be the work of someone who was not endowed with the greatest of mental prowess, it could be a lazy volunteer. Someone could have said they were going to canvass but went out to lunch instead and just filled the forms out themselves.

 

Regardless, there were no actual votes cast, and it looks like the invalid registration forms are being dealt with. There is great benefit to having both parties possessing some oversight in the voting process.

[ma23peas]

Regardless, there were no actual votes cast, and it looks like the invalid registration forms are being dealt with. There is great benefit to having both parties possessing some oversight in the voting process.

 

 

This is just in California...

 

 

"To register to vote, just complete a Voter Registration form and mail it. It is pre-addressed and postage paid. "

 

ANY Registered voter in California can vote by absentee...NO ID is shown, the ACORN representative only has to make sure their signature matches the signature they fraudulently put on the original registration form. How hard is that? So, technically, I could create many registration forms with bogus addresses....and vote by absentee never showing ID. I guarantee you that the number of Absentee Ballots this year in THOSE SWING states that ACORN is targeting (remember I did the math, they are targeting 20 states, but 90% of their 'registered' voters are in those top 10 swing states....more than 200k in Ohio and Michigan!!) so yes, I think I can say VOTES have been cast...most Absentee ballots allow you to vote 30 days ahead of the election...

 

It's a preponderance of the evidence folks...it's there..you're just making excuses for it.

 

Tara

[ma23peas]

Republicans would be absolutely correct that if poor people and people of color were represented at the polls in the same proportion as wealthy people and white people, it would be very bad news for Republicans indeed (that's why they're so worried about the Senate race in GA right now). This doesn't mean that these groups aren't "historically underrepresented." They absolutely are. Do you seriously want to argue that there's something unethical about targeting voter registration efforts toward the very groups that are least likely to vote because if black folks voted in the same numbers as white folks it would hurt Republicans? Like I've said, this is a completely separate issue from anything fraudulent ACORN might have done. Fraud is, of course, never okay and should always be investigated. But the fact that high voter turnout hurts Republicans is a problem Republicans need to be looking into their own party to solve.

 

 

Sorry, I was quoting an article and used that to point out that yes they are targeting a section of people..well, if they are targeting them and that section means so much to them from a disenfranchisement position..then why is it they only care about that population in the top 10 swing states??? Why don't they put as much effort on that same sector of the population that are more predominant in Mississippi, Alabama and South Carolina or even Arkansas...my point was that they don't give a flip about these disenfranchised segments...they just want their social agenda addressed and since MS, AL, SC and AR can't help push their election candidate (they are supporting Obama)...then I guess that section of the population doesn't deserve their attention. If this were happening on the Republican side y'all would be having fits....all I'm seeing is denial from your side or "well, if it's happening, they're handling it..." Huh? It IS happening and the voters registration offices don't have time to go through 200k new registration ballots to confirm validity, it's sucking up their time when they don't have much time....

 

Tara

Edited October 10, 2008 by ma23peas
didn't want all caps words to be construed as screaming, meant for it to be highlighted as a repeat of previous posts...

[HootOwl]

If our government can spend BILLIONS to bailout failing financial institutions, then SURELY it can figure out a way to produce a FREE photo ID to every LEGAL American living in our county. If people want to vote badly enough, they will find a way to get to wherever they need to go to acquire this photo ID. I do not buy the argument that requiring a photo ID will disenfranchise voters. Even with the current options available to acquire a photo ID, it is not an unreasonable request. If people want something badly enough, they will find a way to get it.

 

Having an organization (any organization) go around and do all the legwork required to get people registered to vote is just a way to buy those votes. Who would you expect them to vote for?

 

It just seems to me that many people nowadays just sit back an wait for others (often the government) to give them what they should be willing to work for themselves. We have created a society that no longer expects to have to work for anything. When times are hard, we should expect to have to work harder to make ends meet. That's the nature of life, the nature of hardships that build strong, honorable character.

 

We have only to look at the current social climate of our nation today to see that we have been "bottle-fed" long enough. We need to start cutting our teeth on some "meat" and grow up a bit.

[kokotg]

If this were happening on the Republican side y'all would be having fits....all I'm seeing is denial from your side or "well, if it's happening, they're handling it..."

 

They're under investigation, as, it appears, they should be. I've never suggested otherwise. I don't think people pointing out ACORN's defense of themselves in order to provide readers of this thread with all available information is especially scandalous.

[Melissa in FL]

The Republicans are upset over ACORN allegations. In year or so prior to election, why not conduct their own ethical well-organized lower income voter registration drives and sell their platform to the lower income people who are left out of the political process? Seems logical to me.

 

ACORN gets tax dollars to do this work. Are you saying we the tax payers should pay for a second group to do this? I really think they should at least try to be non-partisan if they are taking our money to do this! I have no problem with an organization getting people signed up to vote, but they shouldn't be trying to sway an election and I think ACORN is trying to sway it. If they are getting federal money they should not have an agenda.

 

BTW, I have no problem with registering people who want to vote and can't make it somewhere to register (or download an application). I have more problems with these kinds of organizations going and picking up my dh's cousin (who has a mentality of about 6) from his group home and driving him to the polls and telling him on the way who to vote for (always the democrat). And this happens every election year! Makes me sick.

 

Melissa

[nmoira]

 

Let me make it even more clearer for you, they have been hiring felons to register these disenfranchised voters..do you know which felons ACORN officials are targeting??? Those with identity theft backgrounds...

You could make it clearer for me by providing some proof that they specifically targeted canvassers with identity theft backgrounds as opposed to having a few canvassers who happened to have such a background. I have seen none.

[Vida Winter]

I was so disappointed in her response. She made light of the situation because "The election is slipping away from McCain..." - so in effect, since McCain isn't doing as well in the polls, it doesn't matter that voter fraud is happening in battleground states since he's going to lose anyway.

 

Is that flawed logic, or what?

[nmoira]

I guarantee you that the number of Absentee Ballots this year in THOSE SWING states that ACORN is targeting (remember I did the math, they are targeting 20 states, but 90% of their 'registered' voters are in those top 10 swing states....more than 200k in Ohio and Michigan!!) so yes, I think I can say VOTES have been cast...most Absentee ballots allow you to vote 30 days ahead of the election...

 

It's a preponderance of the evidence folks...it's there..you're just making excuses for it.

You can "say" all you want. You can speculate. You can assume. You have no proof that votes have been cast.

 

In Michigan, first time voters cannot vote by mail unless they personally delivered their registration to an elections office. In how many swing states can you vote absentee in the first election? Do you know?

[nmoira]

You can "say" all you want. You can speculate. You can assume. You have no proof that votes have been cast.

 

In Michigan, first time voters cannot vote by mail unless they personally delivered their registration to an elections office. In how many swing states can you vote absentee in the first election? Do you know?

Also in Michigan (and I believe in all other states now), when registering by mail, either a driver's license number or part of a social security number and a copy of photo ID. According to federal law (The Help America Vote Act), new voter registration applications are supposed to be checked against existing databases (existing voter registration rolls, DMV, etc.).

[nmoira]

Here are the requirements for voting absentee in Ohio:

 

Rules and Deadlines:

 

 

• All voters wishing to vote by absentee ballot must apply in writing, either in person or by mail, to the county board of elections where they are registered to vote.
  
• The deadline for requesting an absentee ballot is 12 noon the third day before the election.
  
• If applying by mail, the application must be received by noon on Saturday, November 1st at the board office where the voter is registered to vote.
  
• A written application must contain all of the following information:
  
  • Voter's name;
    
  • Voter's signature;
    
  • The address at which the voter is registered to vote;
    
  • Date of birth;
    
  • One of the following items showing proof of your identification:
    
    • Voter's Ohio driver's license number; or
      
    • The last four digits of the voter's Social Security number; or
      
    • A copy of a current and valid photo identification, military identification, current utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, or other government document that shows the voter's name and current address. (Note: A voter cannot use a notice that the board of elections mailed to you as proof of identification.);
      

     

     

    [*]A statement identifying the election for which the voter is requesting an absentee voter's ballot;

    [*]A statement that the voter is a qualified elector; and

    [*]If the ballot is to be mailed, the address where it should be mailed.

     

   

   

  [*]Completed ballots must be received by the close of polls on Election Day.

   

 

[nmoira]

First time voter requirements in Florida:

 

First-time voter ID requirements:

 

You must include your Florida driver's license number, your Florida identification card number, or the last four digits of your social security on your voter registration form. If you are a first-time Florida voter and you do not have an Florida driver's license number or Florida identification number, then you must include a copy of your ID with your voter registration form. If you don't, you'll need to provide ID the first time you vote in person or by absentee ballot.

 

==============

 

Here's a link to the requirements for every state.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Here's a link to the requirements for every state.

 

Thanks! This is very useful!!! :001_smile:

[TeacherZee]

You can "say" all you want. You can speculate. You can assume. You have no proof that votes have been cast.

 

In Michigan, first time voters cannot vote by mail unless they personally delivered their registration to an elections office. In how many swing states can you vote absentee in the first election? Do you know?

 

To vote absentee in Pennsylvania I had to go to the embassy in London the first time I registered to vote (I have always voted absentee since I live abroad)

 

Also in Michigan (and I believe in all other states now), when registering by mail, either a driver's license number or part of a social security number and a copy of photo ID. According to federal law (The Help America Vote Act), new voter registration applications are supposed to be checked against existing databases (existing voter registration rolls, DMV, etc.).

 

In order to register to vote absentee in PA in subsequent elections I have always had to supply part of my social security number and sign my application. When I then vote I sign the outside envelope that I use to send it in. I assume they do this to check against my signature on my original application.

[nmoira]

 

In order to register to vote absentee in PA in subsequent elections I have always had to supply part of my social security number and sign my application. When I then vote I sign the outside envelope that I use to send it in. I assume they do this to check against my signature on my original application.

Yes, this is how our vote by mail system work in Oregon. Every signature is checked.

[BabyBre]

...the problem is they don't care who cheats as long as socialism wins...that's their agenda.

 

It is outrageous..I really am looking forward to the day where we have to have a national ID and everything is tracked so that there is no possibility of fraud...

 

Tara

 

:iagree: This is one more tragic nail in the coffin of American Democracy. If they're not already, our Founding Fathers will be rolling in their graves.

[ma23peas]

The U.S. Department of Justice, for instance, this week said that Georgia's actions to verify identity and citizenship appear to violate the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

The New York Times reviewed state records and Social Security records and concluded that "(t)ens of thousands of eligible voters in at least six swing states have been removed from the rolls or have been blocked from registering in ways that appear to violate federal law" -- the six battleground states being Colorado, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Nevada, and North Carolina.

“These purges are in violation of federal law, including the National Voter Registration Act, which prohibits such purges of voters 90 days before a federal election," Laughlin McDonald, director of the ACLU Voting Rights Project said in a statement. “Of course states should update their voter lists with accurate information, but they should do so in a way that complies with the law and is not driven by partisan bias and does not have an adverse impact on racial and language minorities. Regrettably, our past and recent history is filled with examples of partisan bias driving voter purging and vote suppression. If these practices are allowed to continue, we could see thousands of eligible voters show up on Election Day only to find that they were removed from the rolls."

 

 

So the plot thickens...those who are saying this isn't a big deal because they have to put their social security number on the ballot (the last 4 numbers minimally)..consider this current scenario.

 

 

Thousands upon thousands have made up ballots..with made up social security numbers...nine key states are trying to check the validity of these social security numbers and finding out that they are bogus. They then are throwing them out (as you say they should) Well, now the ACLU jumps in on a technicality and says that in a federal election that you can not use the social security number as an identifier because it goes against a federal law saying you must throw them out within 90 days of a federal election and if that tactic doesn't work then they're saying you can not use the social security ID as an identifier...because it violates the right of the person.

 

 

In essence, these illegal fraudulent voter registrants can make up social security numbers, cast a mail in vote and have the ACLU defend their right to do so.

 

 

I really want to say something sarcastic here but I'm holding my tongue out of respect for this dialogue and I'll go mop the floor.ad i

 

(What will really be bad, I don't know this is the case, but if those fraudulent registrants made up those last four of the social's and they ironically matched the four numbers of an ACTUAL voter..would that ACTUAL voter's rights have been purged? This is horrible, folks)

 

Tara

Edited October 10, 2008 by ma23peas
Horrible thought added.

[elizabeth]

http://www.fec.gov/hava/hava.htm The ACLU actually has nothing to do with the law as it was written . You might find it interesting to consider the alternative dangers of having national id cards-very 1984 imho...