Poll: Health Care

[Tracey in TX]

Following last night's debate, do you think that health care is a privilege, a right, or a responsibility? Feel free to add comments to discussion.

[cathmom]

i think it's a right and our country has the responsibility to extend basic health care to all americans

 

Right now, it's a privilege that fewer and fewer receive.

[Renee in NC]

I voted other because I think health care is a right, but I am not sure where you draw the line. There is basic health care and then more elaborate health care.

 

The problem is knowing where to draw that line.

[Tracey in TX]

i think it's a right and our country has the responsibility to extend basic health care to all americans

 

Right now, it's a privilege that fewer and fewer receive.

What is "basic" health care? (I agree, but beyond this terminology the definition is "basic" is muddled. Is it asprin, emergency care, cancer treatment, mental health care, infertility tx, pre-post natal, dental, orthodontia, eye care, etc. Does everyone believe we need to help the less fortunate, but to what degree?

[Tracey in TX]

 

I have a feeling your poll has some ambiguity in it...is it the responsibility of the individual or the government/collective to provide health care? I think that is what you are asking, but opposing sides can answer the same way as it is worded. Just a thought.

Attempted to quote verbatim--from memory--taken from last night's debate. No ambiguity meant on my part, honest! :) Tom Brokaw, on the other hand, might have meant to have some deep, hidden meaning!

[Haiku]

In a country as wealthy as America, in a country that wastes as much money as America does, healthcare is a right. There is no excuse for a situation where people don't have access to healthcare, and it is the responsibility of Americans to ensure that it is available to all Americans. I see healthcare as a moral issue.

 

Tara

 

ETA: I see "basic" healthcare as preventive, definitely. I also see it as commonly accepted treatment for acute and ongoing health conditions. Yeah, I know that people who smoke and get lung cancer made their own decisions. But I also don't agree with simply turning a cold shoulder on them and saying, "Too bad for you."

Edited October 8, 2008 by TaraTheLiberator

[K&Rs Mom]

A right is something you have automatically just by virtue of your status as a human being and no one should take away. Since health care has to be provided by someone else, it can't possibly be a right.

[mommaduck]

I voted other.

 

I don't believe it's a responsibility in the matter of, if you don't have it/can't afford it you are being irresponsible...but only a responsibility in that you take care of yourself the best that you can and can afford.

 

I don't believe it's a right per se as I don't see where that it in Scripture or Law. But if it's available, make use of it. On the other hand, it's down near criminal what the medical and pharmceutical establishments get away with. And that they have worked to make even simpler forms of healthy living and health care difficult to obtain (lest we put our money elsewhere).

 

I don't think of it as a privilege in that only certain people are deserving - I believe all life should be taken care of...but it does seem that the privileged are the ones who can most afford it.

[sdWTMer]

No way is healthcare a right! Even basic healthcare!

[farmgirlinwv]

I voted "other". I think something should be done about the "system" i.e. insurance co's and doctors charging exorbinant amounts of money. However, I don't feel it's the gov't job to provide this. I believe in personal responsibility. Gov't involvement, as always, only makes it worse. Before gov't programs doctors realized they had a responsibility to help the less fortunate and did pro-bono work and discounted fees. Because of laws and regulations that drove up the cost of medical care and liability standards doctors can't do this anymore. Now because third parties are involved (ins agencies and gov't programs) there's no incentive to lower costs.

 

There are doctors who operate low cost clinics. They don't accept any insurance. They are paid cash at time of service at a very reasonable fee. Then people only need insurance for catastrophic events which is the way it should be.

[Jenny in Atl]

I don't believe it is a right, but I think countries that wish to do the decent thing, by their people (raise the standard of living and well being) should try to provide equal access to healthcare for those who want it. No easy answer.

[Renee in NC]

No way is healthcare a right! Even basic healthcare!

 

So you think that health *care* (not insurance, but care) should only be extended to those who can pay for it? Or you just don't want the government paying for health care?

[lynn]

Please explain something to me I just don't understand. Can't one just walk into a hospital or clinic and be seen by a doctor? My bil has diabetes never worked for honest pay a day in his life and he gets treated and his meds covered by the state he also had a stroke 2 months ago and again everything is covered. My sister has had all the care she needed for her 4 children through medicaid and basic care for herself. So it seems that health care is available to those who need it. I understand that it does have it's limitations as far as choosing doctors or specialists but basic care is there am I mistaken or what have I missed?

[Haiku]

They are paid cash at time of service at a very reasonable fee. Then people only need insurance for catastrophic events which is the way it should be.

 

Well, sure. That works if you're healthy and just happen to get sick every once in a while.

 

But what if you have a disease that needs ongoing treatment? Even "very reasonable fees" add up very quickly if you need monthly medication and ongoing medical services.

 

Tara

[Haiku]

Can't one just walk into a hospital or clinic and be seen by a doctor?

 

No. Most places won't treat you if you don't have insurance or proof of ability to pay.

 

Tara

[Jennifer in NH]

No way is healthcare a right! Even basic healthcare!

:iagree: If it is, then where on earth do we draw the line, is a house a right, a car a right...a vacation home a right...end of my rant

[Ellie]

I can't find anywhere in the U.S. Constitution that says it is the government's responsibility to pay for health insurance. That is our responsibility.

 

If we give that over to the government, then the government will make health choices for us (more so than now!); that means I have less freedom than I had before.

 

Why would anyone expect the government to do a good job of administering health care? Has no one noticed that it doesn't do so great a job of so many other things it's in charge of???

[Jennifer in NH]

Please explain something to me I just don't understand. Can't one just walk into a hospital or clinic and be seen by a doctor? My bil has diabetes never worked for honest pay a day in his life and he gets treated and his meds covered by the state he also had a stroke 2 months ago and again everything is covered. My sister has had all the care she needed for her 4 children through medicaid and basic care for herself. So it seems that health care is available to those who need it. I understand that it does have it's limitations as far as choosing doctors or specialists but basic care is there am I mistaken or what have I missed?

It is my understanding that public hospitals cannot turn anyone away from the emergency room due to inability to pay. I am fairly confident that was passed into law years ago.

[dawn of ns]

The choices are phrased as if they exclude each other. Voting is a right but also a responsibility. Same, for me, with health care.

[Zelda]

I see healthcare as a privilege and governments have a responsibility to see to it that as many citizens as possible have access to it. A healthy populace is of key importance to any state. A government who would ignore it would do so at its own risk.

 

In no way do I see it as a right.

[Cindy in MO]

So you think that health *care* (not insurance, but care) should only be extended to those who can pay for it? Or you just don't want the government paying for health care?

 

But who is supposed to pay for it? The gov. gets its money from us. Should all the people who pay taxes pay for it? I'm willing to pay so much, but as others have said, where do you draw the line? All the new technology and treatments are too expensive to provide them to everyone. Someday if we have universal healthcare everyone will be crying about the taxes they're paying.

 

No easy answer,

Cindy

[Just Me]

I believe it is my responsibility to provide the best health care I can afford for my family. I cannot get behind the notion that it is somehow the responsibility of the government to provide this for me. It is also my responsibility to provide food, shelter, and clothing for my family, not the government's.

 

I feel it is the responsibility of the government to protect me, and to intercede with other countries on my behalf. But 'take care of me?'...no.

[Sara R]

In a country as wealthy as America, in a country that wastes as much money as America does, healthcare is a right.

 

Wealthy? Is $10.2 trillion dollars of national debt (which doesn't include future Social Security or Medicare) wealthy? Maybe we used to be wealthy. Not anymore.

[cathmom]

Basic health care:

regular checkups and any tests needed resulting from checkup

medication, etc, needed for ongoing illnesses like diabetes

regular dental care and eye exams

prenatal care and births covered by midwives for low-risk mothers, OBs for high risk moms

 

 

This is just my first attempt at trying to outline what I believe basic health care means and I don't feel well, so be gentle!

[Haiku]

Wealthy? Is $10.2 trillion dollars of national debt (which doesn't include future Social Security or Medicare) wealthy? Maybe we used to be wealthy. Not anymore.

 

Heck, yeah, we're wealthy! Even the poorest among us live generally excellent lives compared to much of the rest of the world. Just because we allow our government to waste our money doesn't mean we aren't wealthy. We could easily pay off our debts if we stopped wasting money.

 

Tara

[CactusPair]

I'm trying to work this idea out for myself, but right now I think it is right--a right falls under the category of "life", as in "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

 

A lot of people are not rich or poor enough to have coverage. Even when you have coverage, your insurance may not pay enough to allow you to afford the care or medicine you need.

 

I was diagnosed with a serious illness when I was in college. I had student health insurance. The medicine I needed cost $1000 a month. My insurance covered 80% of that, leaving me to pay $200 a month, which I did not have. Nor did I have a way to earn $200 a month as a full-time student with a chronic disease. I could have quit college and tried to work, but I would have lost my student insurance. Honestly, I don't think I could have held full-time employment at that time, either.

 

A social worker tried to convince me to apply for some kind of gov't aid. I refused as that was against my moral value system then. and I'm not sure I would have qualified anyway. I felt that I could not ask my family for the money. So I went without the the disease modifying drugs that could help slow the progression of my illness. I did not become sicker then, but I did experience silent progression in my brain and spine and had minor relapses.

 

I do wish that there would have been some alternative I could have turned to without shame back then.

 

I don't really know what a right is right now, but this morning I was thinking about what ParisSarah posted a while back about wanting to live in a society that rescues people who chose not to evacuate a hurricane site. She said that she wanted to live in a place that does this kind of thing for its citizens just because they're people and it's the right thing to do (sorry about the poor paraphrase, Sarah).

 

I would like to live in a society that values it's people so much that it ensures all members receive the care and medicine they need to maintain or gain health and healing.

[Melissa in Australia]

I live in Australia, and I think it is a right for everyone to have health care, not just the rich.

[cathmom]

:iagree:

I'm trying to work this idea out for myself, but right now I think it is right--a right falls under the category of "life", as in "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

 

A lot of people are not rich or poor enough to have coverage. Even when you have coverage, your insurance may not pay enough to allow you to afford the care or medicine you need.

 

I was diagnosed with a serious illness when I was in college. I had student health insurance. The medicine I needed cost $1000 a month. My insurance covered 80% of that, leaving me to pay $200 a month, which I did not have. Nor did I have a way to earn $200 a month as a full-time student with a chronic disease. I could have quit college and tried to work, but I would have lost my student insurance. Honestly, I don't think I could have held full-time employment at that time, either.

 

A social worker tried to convince me to apply for some kind of gov't aid. I refused as that was against my moral value system then. and I'm not sure I would have qualified anyway. I felt that I could not ask my family for the money. So I went without the the disease modifying drugs that could help slow the progression of my illness. I did not become sicker then, but I did experience silent progression in my brain and spine and had minor relapses.

 

I do wish that there would have been some alternative I could have turned to without shame back then.

 

I don't really know what a right is right now, but this morning I was thinking about what ParisSarah posted a while back about wanting to live in a society that rescues people who chose not to evacuate a hurricane site. She said that she wanted to live in a place that does this kind of thing for its citizens just because they're people and it's the right thing to do (sorry about the poor paraphrase, Sarah).

 

I would like to live in a society that values it's people so much that it ensures all members receive the care and medicine they need to maintain or gain health and healing.

:iagree:

[Zelda]

I live in Australia, and I think it is a right for everyone to have health care, not just the rich.

 

I don't think anyone claimed that the the rich had a right to health care that the non-rich do not. That's confusing "rights" with "access". Rich people eat in nicer restaurants than I do, not because it is their right but because their money affords them access.

 

It can be argued that health care is indeed a right but it can't be suggested that anyone here said that health care was a right only for the rich.

[Josie]

I believe it is my responsibility to provide the best health care I can afford for my family. I cannot get behind the notion that it is somehow the responsibility of the government to provide this for me. It is also my responsibility to provide food, shelter, and clothing for my family, not the government's.

 

I feel it is the responsibility of the government to protect me, and to intercede with other countries on my behalf. But 'take care of me?'...no.

 

:iagree:

[Haiku]

a place that does this kind of thing for its citizens just because they're people and it's the right thing to do

 

That's exactly how I feel. I don't want to live in a place where it's every many for himself and those who didn't make the "right" choices at some time in the past are snubbed. To me, in terms of healthcare, allowing people to live sick lives or die when they could have been treated, to say to them, "We could do this for you ... but we're not going to" is not a culture of life. I honestly feel like, what is the point of living in a prosperous nation if we're going to allow people to suffer as though we didn't have the good fortune and advantages we have?

 

I know this could go round and round and round. Some people feel that everyone has to get their own. I think that we should all benefit from a pooling of resources (in more ways than just healthcare).

 

Tara

[TraceyS/FL]

There are doctors who operate low cost clinics. They don't accept any insurance. They are paid cash at time of service at a very reasonable fee. Then people only need insurance for catastrophic events which is the way it should be.

 

And sometimes you walk into the doctors office expecting 1 diagnosis, and walk out a month later with one that is a total sucker punch and means treatment with medication that costs more than you make in a year. ALong with a lifetime of issues (genetic condition).

 

And then you lose your insurance, by choice because it came down to food on the table or insurance.

 

And then every night you try to NOT cry knowing your child is not getting the medication she needs to have a chance to lead a normal life.......

 

I"d just like something affordable.... affordable to me means leaving me more than $286 a week to feed, clothe, house my family.

[Zelda]

That's exactly how I feel. I don't want to live in a place where it's every many for himself and those who didn't make the "right" choices at some time in the past are snubbed. To me, in terms of healthcare, allowing people to live sick lives or die when they could have been treated, to say to them, "We could do this for you ... but we're not going to" is not a culture of life. I honestly feel like, what is the point of living in a prosperous nation if we're going to allow people to suffer as though we didn't have the good fortune and advantages we have?

 

I know this could go round and round and round. Some people feel that everyone has to get their own. I think that we should all benefit from a pooling of resources (in more ways than just healthcare).

 

Tara

 

Why would taking government out of the equation mean that it would be every man for himself? Is it the thinking that without being strong-armed into it people wouldn't help other people? Are people really only charitable when they are being forced into it? Is there really such a shortage of compassion among people such that only a select few manage to have any?

[Haiku]

Why would taking government out of the equation mean that it would be every man for himself? Is it the thinking that without being strong-armed into it people wouldn't help other people? Are people really only charitable when they are being forced into it? Is there really such a shortage of compassion among people such that only a select few manage to have any?

 

I want to live in a country where there is a bottom line guarantee that I have food, shelter, and adequate medical care were I in a situation where I couldn't get it elsewhere. I think that only the government can guarantee that. That doesn't mean that I think they are always the most efficient at it, but the government is the only entity that can provide that guarantee.

 

There are tons of issues I care about, but I can't do something about every one of them. I have not the time, the money, or the knowledge to do something about everything that is important to me.

 

If the person next door to me had cancer, I could do some things to help: shop, cook, clean, transport to medical appointments, babysit, etc. But what I couldn't do is pay for chemo and hospital stays. There are very few people who can afford to do that, and if I got cancer, I don't know anyone who is wealthy enough to pay for my treatment. Luckily, I have health insurance. But what if I or my husband worked a job that didn't offer it and we couldn't afford it and I got cancer? Are you saying that other people in community would pay for my treatment? Hundreds of thousands of dollars? I really don't think that would happen.

 

Tara

[Aggie]

I'm trying to work this idea out for myself, but right now I think it is right--a right falls under the category of "life", as in "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

 

A lot of people are not rich or poor enough to have coverage. Even when you have coverage, your insurance may not pay enough to allow you to afford the care or medicine you need.

 

I was diagnosed with a serious illness when I was in college. I had student health insurance. The medicine I needed cost $1000 a month. My insurance covered 80% of that, leaving me to pay $200 a month, which I did not have. Nor did I have a way to earn $200 a month as a full-time student with a chronic disease. I could have quit college and tried to work, but I would have lost my student insurance. Honestly, I don't think I could have held full-time employment at that time, either.

 

A social worker tried to convince me to apply for some kind of gov't aid. I refused as that was against my moral value system then. and I'm not sure I would have qualified anyway. I felt that I could not ask my family for the money. So I went without the the disease modifying drugs that could help slow the progression of my illness. I did not become sicker then, but I did experience silent progression in my brain and spine and had minor relapses.

 

I do wish that there would have been some alternative I could have turned to without shame back then.

 

I don't really know what a right is right now, but this morning I was thinking about what ParisSarah posted a while back about wanting to live in a society that rescues people who chose not to evacuate a hurricane site. She said that she wanted to live in a place that does this kind of thing for its citizens just because they're people and it's the right thing to do (sorry about the poor paraphrase, Sarah).

 

I would like to live in a society that values it's people so much that it ensures all members receive the care and medicine they need to maintain or gain health and healing.

 

But wouldn't that care and medicine be best provided through private charitable foundations rather than the gov't? St. Jude Children's Hosp, for one, doesn't turn away anyone for financial reasons. It has a board of directors and is run properly, not like many of our gov't agencies.

 

Also, for someone who *needed* assistance but didn't want to take it (like you in college), wouldn't it be easier to take it from a private foundation so you could re-pay it later?

 

FWIW, I believe our society is absolutely wonderful in that we do take care of people. Not only Americans, but people all over the world. We are not a nation of selfish and uncaring people, and I wish people would stop inferring that we are.

 

What we, I believe, take issue with is the government's inability to run an efficient program, the lack of accountability, and the abuse and fraud. Just think, if you were given a huge sum of money, wouldn't you give some to charity? Most people would. Now think....if I had more money from tax cuts, how much more I could give to charities to help people? No one I know gives voluntary charitable contributions to gov't programs.

[Zelda]

I want to live in a country where there is a bottom line guarantee that I have food, shelter, and adequate medical care were I in a situation where I couldn't get it elsewhere. I think that only the government can guarantee that. That doesn't mean that I think they are always the most efficient at it, but the government is the only entity that can provide that guarantee.

 

There are tons of issues I care about, but I can't do something about every one of them. I have not the time, the money, or the knowledge to do something about everything that is important to me.

 

If the person next door to me had cancer, I could do some things to help: shop, cook, clean, transport to medical appointments, babysit, etc. But what I couldn't do is pay for chemo and hospital stays. There are very few people who can afford to do that, and if I got cancer, I don't know anyone who is wealthy enough to pay for my treatment. Luckily, I have health insurance. But what if I or my husband worked a job that didn't offer it and we couldn't afford it and I got cancer? Are you saying that other people in community would pay for my treatment? Hundreds of thousands of dollars? I really don't think that would happen.

 

Tara

 

Actually, I've said that government has a responsibility to provide access to health care to its populace. Your original statement was more broad than health care. I was responding to that. It seems that some people feel that if you don't believe that the government's job is to redistribute all the money equally then you lack compassion.

[Aggie]

But what if I or my husband worked a job that didn't offer it and we couldn't afford it and I got cancer? Are you saying that other people in community would pay for my treatment? Hundreds of thousands of dollars? I really don't think that would happen.

 

Tara

 

This happens ALL the time around the country. Communities come together to raise money for ill/injured family members. There are privately funded hospitals who take in patients for free. I just can't imagine the government taking on a job this big (health care) and making it work.

[Haiku]

This happens ALL the time around the country. Communities come together to raise money for ill/injured family members. There are privately funded hospitals who take in patients for free. I just can't imagine the government taking on a job this big (health care) and making it work.

 

It also happens every day that people are bankrupted by medical bills they can't pay.

 

Tara

[justme]

A right is something you have automatically just by virtue of your status as a human being and no one should take away. Since health care has to be provided by someone else, it can't possibly be a right.

__________________

Aubrey

 

Well said and I totally agree. If everyone has a right to healthcare (and again, what kind- emergency, running to the doctor for every cough and sniffle, Viagra, plastic surgery- where does it stop?), then others will be forced to provide that care, and not at the conditions or rewards that they feel appropriate. Maybe people don't want to spend 8+ years and hundreds of thousands of $'s to be government workers forced to do the bidding of others for capped pay. what do you think will happen to the quality of much of the medical field when it is socialized? The same thing that happens to everything else when it is socialized- it will become less efficeint, corrupt and stop attracting the best and brightest. Be careful what you wish for is a fitting warning here.

[teachermom_7]

This is coming from someone who does NOT have health insurance due to the extreme cost of hubby's group plan, but I do not feel it's a "right" or the responsibility of the government to provide my health insurance.

 

My Reasoning: The day it becomes a "right" and the government has total control over my healthcare, I lose my rights as a patient!! I could choose to pay the higher costs of my hubby's insurance premium, or I can choose to save my money and only "pay as I go" when needed. THAT is my right!

 

Look at every other nation in the world that has gone to socialized healthcare ~ is that REALLY what we as Americans want?? Our country was founded on our individual freedom. The more we give BACK to the government to control, the less freedom I have to make my own choices.

 

And, on a side note ~ if they manage health care like they manage money, I REALLY don't want them doing ANYTHING with my healthcare!!

 

Just my humble opinion.

 

Tammie in LA

[dawn of ns]

My Reasoning: The day it becomes a "right" and the government has total control over my healthcare, I lose my rights as a patient!! I could choose to pay the higher costs of my hubby's insurance premium, or I can choose to save my money and only "pay as I go" when needed. THAT is my right!

 

I'd rather have the right to treatment, to choose my doctor, to not stress about medical bills.

 

Look at every other nation in the world that has gone to socialized healthcare ~ is that REALLY what we as Americans want?? Our country was founded on our individual freedom. The more we give BACK to the government to control, the less freedom I have to make my own choices

.

 

Every other Western nation has gone to some form of Universal healthcare. Certainly not every other country in the world.

 

Again - UHC does NOT MEAN sociliazed medicine. In Canada for instance a doctors clinic is a PRIVATE business, not run by the government. We simply have one insurer, the government, which all doctor's submit their bills too.

 

For every country with UHC there's a different approach and many approachs have nothing to do with socialized medicine. It's really time people started researching the reality of healthcare beyond American borders.

 

And, on a side note ~ if they manage health care like they manage money, I REALLY don't want them doing ANYTHING with my healthcare!!

 

I don't blame you. I mean, it quite obvious the insurance industry is MUCH better at managing money. Just look at AIG!

Edited October 9, 2008 by dawn of ns

[JudyJudyJudy]

It is my understanding that public hospitals cannot turn anyone away from the emergency room due to inability to pay. I am fairly confident that was passed into law years ago.

Key word: emergency. They can indeed turn someone away if a condition is not a true emergency.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I'm trying to work this idea out for myself, but right now I think it is right--a right falls under the category of "life", as in "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

This is what I believe as well. I absolutely believe that healthcare is a right.

 

 

A lot of people are not rich or poor enough to have coverage. Even when you have coverage, your insurance may not pay enough to allow you to afford the care or medicine you need.

 

I was diagnosed with a serious illness when I was in college. I had student health insurance. The medicine I needed cost $1000 a month. My insurance covered 80% of that, leaving me to pay $200 a month, which I did not have. Nor did I have a way to earn $200 a month as a full-time student with a chronic disease. I could have quit college and tried to work, but I would have lost my student insurance. Honestly, I don't think I could have held full-time employment at that time, either.

 

A social worker tried to convince me to apply for some kind of gov't aid. I refused as that was against my moral value system then. and I'm not sure I would have qualified anyway. I felt that I could not ask my family for the money. So I went without the the disease modifying drugs that could help slow the progression of my illness. I did not become sicker then, but I did experience silent progression in my brain and spine and had minor relapses.

 

I do wish that there would have been some alternative I could have turned to without shame back then.

 

I don't really know what a right is right now, but this morning I was thinking about what ParisSarah posted a while back about wanting to live in a society that rescues people who chose not to evacuate a hurricane site. She said that she wanted to live in a place that does this kind of thing for its citizens just because they're people and it's the right thing to do (sorry about the poor paraphrase, Sarah).

 

I would like to live in a society that values it's people so much that it ensures all members receive the care and medicine they need to maintain or gain health and healing.

I agree. In my opinion, those who don't feel this way have never faced serious health issues themselves that they couldn't afford to treat or have never had anyone close to them who has experienced them.

[JudyJudyJudy]

And sometimes you walk into the doctors office expecting 1 diagnosis, and walk out a month later with one that is a total sucker punch and means treatment with medication that costs more than you make in a year. ALong with a lifetime of issues (genetic condition).

 

And then you lose your insurance, by choice because it came down to food on the table or insurance.

 

And then every night you try to NOT cry knowing your child is not getting the medication she needs to have a chance to lead a normal life.......

 

I"d just like something affordable.... affordable to me means leaving me more than $286 a week to feed, clothe, house my family.

:grouphug:

[JudyJudyJudy]

This happens ALL the time around the country. Communities come together to raise money for ill/injured family members. There are privately funded hospitals who take in patients for free. I just can't imagine the government taking on a job this big (health care) and making it work.

How often do you see communities raising money to pay for others' care when the people can't even afford to go to a doctor to even get diagnosed?

 

Preventive care is extraordinarily important. One shouldn't have to be extremely ill before being able to get help. Society certainly doesn't benefit by having sick citizens who can't afford medical care.

[Haiku]

socialized healthcare

 

Universal healthcare is not socialized healthcare!

 

Tara

[Jennifer3141]

I don't know what to do about healthcare. I'm biased because with either healthcare proposal out there by our presidential candidates, DH is probably going to get a paycut. Unless more doctors stop signing up to be hospitalists, but here's what's happening everyday to some Americans - many of whom are good people but some of whom are not "responsible citizens."

 

1. "Ed" - a 50 year old man with no insurance has chest pain in the middle of the night. He comes to the hospital ER.

 

2. Ed is having a mild heart attack. He stays in the hospital 2 days while they get his medication correct and monitor him and conduct all his tests.

 

3. Ed walks out with a $16,000 bill and no savings.

 

4. A month later, the bills roll in. Ed either totally ignores them until he's dragged into court or he negotiates with the hospital and gets the bills reduced to $6000 which he doesn't have either but can make $20 a month payments for ETERNITY essentially.

 

5. Ed cannot afford his medication to correct the high blood pressure which led to the heart attack.

 

6. Ed's car breaks down. Ed's credit is in the toilet because of the above medical bills. Ed buys another car at one of those 20% interest car dealers but it breaks down shortly after he buys it.

 

7. Ed loses his low paying job because he has no reliable transportation.

 

8. Ed has another heart attack and the cycle begins again.

 

9. Ed dies around 55 because he didn't have the care he should have had.

 

DH calls #9 the "bright spot" because living for years without getting the kind of care you need is frustrating and heartbreaking.

 

The sticking point in America is what level of care should all Americans get? The reality of the world situation is that America is the most cutting edge country in the world when it comes to medicine. We develop the new drugs (or the corporations based here) and we develop the new surgeries. We have the people in all fields who constantly push the envelope forward.

 

So if we have the cure for your rare cancer but the drugs would cost $1 million because they are brand spanking new, do you get them? Does your next door neighbor get them because she has private insurance?

 

And where's Medicare going in all this? You talk about modifying Medicare and you get millions of angry seniors AND doctors.

 

We have a neat country. We value personal freedom (or we did) like none other. But we also have a compassionate streak and no one is really comfortable with the wealthy getting better health care than the indigent. These are the two sticking points that keep universal health care from proceeding forward in our country.

 

So we have this cobbled together system where EVERYONE is different and people fall through the cracks. But the cracks are getting bigger because people either don't have enough money to make their premiums and pay for food or they've lost their jobs where their health insurance comes from. The cracks are now canyons for too many Americans.

 

No one really cared about healthcare when the economy was great 15 years ago. Everyone griped when their premiums went up 12% or less but everyone's went up that much every year so it was no biggie.

 

The longer we stay in a recession, the worse the healthcare problem is going to get. More canyons will form and it won't really bother some Americans until they are in the canyon with a child with cancer and their state's healthcare plan has limits that will mean death for their child - if they can qualify for their state's healthcare.

 

And some of those "Eds" that die were pretty amazing people.

 

Jen

[mamato4girls]

I feel it is a mix between a right and a responsibility.

[Renee in NC]

:iagree:

[JudyJudyJudy]

Jennifer, great post!

 

 

The choices are phrased as if they exclude each other. Voting is a right but also a responsibility. Same, for me, with health care.

I agree that there is a responsibility factor involved in one's health (eating healthily, exercising, not smoking, etc.), but I believe that healthcare is a right.

 

 

A right is something you have automatically just by virtue of your status as a human being and no one should take away. Since health care has to be provided by someone else, it can't possibly be a right.

People have never survived solely on their own. There has always been reliance on other community members, tribal members, etc.

 

I believe education is a right in this country. I believe that being safe in our communities is a right. Since not everyone can homeschool, in many instances, that service must be provided by someone else. In the instance of safety, we have those services provided by policeman and firemen. Even though those services are provided by others, they're still rights of members of a society.