Second Presidential Debate Poll

[Spy Car]

So who won?

[Amy in Orlando]

Tom Brokaw.

[mommylawyer]

McCain will get my vote on Election Day, but as for the debate, neither one really did it for me.

 

I didn't really hear anything new - except for the invasion of Pakistan. That was a stunner.

[astrid]

In my mind, Obama.

In fact, I thought McCain was pretty rude. His comment to Tom Brokaw about who he would choose as Treasury Secretary, "Not YOU, Tom" was uncalled for and frankly, bizarre. Maybe he was buying time.

 

In addition, he never once called Senator Obama by his name or title, instead pointing to him and saying , "THAT one........"

 

When that young African American man asked the question about the mortgage bail out, McCain said that he bet the man had never even heard of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. I found that insulting.

 

At the close of the debate, as the credits were rolling (I was watching CNN's coverage) Obama walked up to him and put out his hand to shake hands with McCain. McCain looked at him and turned away. Cindy McCain shook his hand.

 

And that's not even touching his message. Not enough time before beddy-bye time for that!

 

Just my observations. I'm sure others will disagree vehemently.

 

Astrid

[Spy Car]

I've given Sen McCain his due, such as giving him the edge at Saddleback.

 

But tonight, I thought he was discombobulated. Never seen him come off worse. He seemed erratic, strange body quirks, he called Obama "that one".

 

Questions were not answered, he struggled to get out canned responses to questions not asked. Boy was I stunned. Not saddened, but surprised what a bad job Sen McCain did.

 

Where Barack was smooth, polished, confident, and presidential. I think this debate will put the race away.

 

Yippie :lol:

 

Bill

[newlifemom]

I found it interesting that some people in response on some news channel said the Obama didn't answer the questions and others said the exact opposite. Interesting.

[astrid]

I didn't really hear anything new - except for the invasion of Pakistan. That was a stunner.

 

And that's exactly what McCain intended it to be---- a stunner. Because it's flatly untrue.

 

What I found stunning is that McCain says he knows how to catch Bin Ladin and he can do it. Well, great. So why hasn't he done that already? Whatever.

 

astrid

[jojomojo]

I never quite know how to answer these. Are we talking about presentation, speaking, and mannerisms? Or are we talking policies? I try to keep the two separate because I don't think they have much to do with the other (and I'm much more concerned about one over the other as well).

[Erica in PA]

One thing really stood out to me tonight, that I hadn't really picked up on before: Over and over again, McCain was able to cite what he has *done* over the years. He could back up his plans for the future, because he had examples of having done things consistent with that in the past. I started thinking... did Obama refer to any accomplishments at all? Was he able to lend credence to his plans for the future by citing what he has already done? I couldn't recall many, if any, occasions where he referred to something he has actually *done,* other than a few votes that he mentioned. As far as I can remember, he really only referred to what he planned to do going forward. Plans for the future are important, but a president of the United States should have a impressive record of getting things done for the American people, and I don't think that, tonight, Obama did enough to show that he has done that. To me he came across as relying almost entirely on rhetoric. He did appear knowledgeable and intelligent, but also inexperienced and a newcomer to national and world affairs in contrast to McCain's experience.

 

Though McCain got off to a weak start, and I shouted at him a few times to *shut up* about earmarks, I think for the first time in any of these debates, the Republican candidate was the clear winner.

 

Erica

[Spy Car]

In my mind, Obama.

In fact, I thought McCain was pretty rude. His comment to Tom Brokaw about who he would choose as Treasury Secretary, "Not YOU, Tom" was uncalled for and frankly, bizarre. Maybe he was buying time.

 

Was that a weird moment or what?

 

My wife and I looked at each other and wondered is McCain on acid or what?

 

In addition, he never once called Senator Obama by his name or title, instead pointing to him and saying , "THAT one........"

 

That's when it got weirder yet. "That one?" Yikes!

 

When that young African American man asked the question about the mortgage bail out, McCain said that he bet the man had never even heard of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. I found that insulting.

 

Astrid it's like you were here on the couch watching with us. How freeking insulting was that moment???

 

In my mind, Obama.

In fact, I thought McCain was pretty rude. His comment to Tom Brokaw about who he would choose as Treasury Secretary, "Not YOU, Tom" was uncalled for and frankly, bizarre. Maybe he was buying time.

 

Was that a weird moment or what?

 

My wife and I looked at each other and wondered is McCain on acid or what?

 

In addition, he never once called Senator Obama by his name or title, instead pointing to him and saying , "THAT one........"

 

That's when it got weirder yet. "That one?" Yikes!

 

At the close of the debate, as the credits were rolling (I was watching CNN's coverage) Obama walked up to him and put out his hand to shake hands with McCain. McCain looked at him and turned away. Cindy McCain shook his hand.

 

Yep.

 

 

Just my observations. I'm sure others will disagree vehemently.

 

Astrid

 

Maybe not everyone :D

[astrid]

I never quite know how to answer these. Are we talking about presentation, speaking, and mannerisms? Or are we talking policies? I try to keep the two separate because I don't think they have much to do with the other (and I'm much more concerned about one over the other as well).

 

While I believe policy is of paramount importance, I do feel that the way in which one presents oneself is also incredibly important. Especially when one is in a position to be the face of our nation, as it were.

 

astrid

[hornblower]

At the close of the debate, as the credits were rolling (I was watching CNN's coverage) Obama walked up to him and put out his hand to shake hands with McCain. McCain looked at him and turned away. Cindy McCain shook his hand.

 

 

Andrew Sullivan at the The Daily Dish thought there was no handshake either but then said when he dvr'd it, there was a handshake.

 

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/mccain-wouldnt.html

 

 

I love the new slogan proposed http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/a-new-slogan.html

 

 

I have a hard time being impartial. I SO want one person to win, that I know I completely distort reality.

[astrid]

Astrid it's like you were here on the couch watching with us. How freeking insulting was that moment???

 

Yeah......here on our couch, 3,000 miles away on the opposite coast, dh and I just looked at each other and said, "He did NOT just say that, did he?" Truly, we were stunned.

 

And Gov. Palin's comments of late have really been over the top. As has the crowd's reactions to her incendiary statements.

 

astrid

[JudyJudyJudy]

I agree with astrid and Spy Car. Even if I had liked McCain before, the "that one" moment would have changed my mind.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I also thought that McCain's assumption that most people had never heard of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was insulting.

[Erica in PA]

I agree with astrid and Spy Car. Even if I had liked McCain before, the "that one" moment would have changed my mind.

 

Why? I don't understand why that was significant?

[jojomojo]

While I believe policy is of paramount importance, I do feel that the way in which one presents oneself is also incredibly important. Especially when one is in a position to be the face of our nation, as it were.

 

astrid

 

So why is it when these questions are asked (who won?) the first thing pointed out are all of the things that are second to the policies the candidates stand for? I'd much rather discuss the policies that are going to make the real difference in our country. I agree, McCain did not present himself well during this debate....he said some things that I bet he is kicking himself over right now. But how important is it in the grand scheme of things (economy, national safety, etc) that he slipped up a bit and didn't speak well?

 

I'm not picking on you :tongue_smilie:It's just something I have noticed everywhere (especially in regards to our current president). I find it very superficial.

[camibami]

Dh and I enjoyed it. He brought home some Sam Adam's Oktoberfest beer today, so we decided to play a drinking game with the debates. He got "change" from Obama, and I got "my friend" from McCain. I am a little tipsy, truth be told. My friend, my friend, my friend....AAAG!

 

On a more seriosu note, DH is actually considering not voting. I can't believe it, but its true. He likes McCain's economics/social issues, and Obama's foreign policy. He's conservative, so its a little like the Twilight Zone for him, in his words. I encouraged him to check out 3rd party candidates, and he has already, and in his words they are "all a bunch of whackadoos".:lol:SO maybe for the first time in 11 years, we *won't* be canceling each other out with our votes! I am not as happy about that as I thought I would be...

[Spy Car]

Yeah......here on our couch, 3,000 miles away on the opposite coast, dh and I just looked at each other and said, "He did NOT just say that, did he?" Truly, we were stunned.

 

And Gov. Palin's comments of late have really been over the top. As has the crowd's reactions to her incendiary statements.

 

astrid

 

I actually thought Sarah Palin did better in her debate than McCain did tonight. Never (in a million years) did I think I'd be writing these words, but wow, was John McCain off his game tonight.

 

I'm stunned. Pleasantly stunned, but stunned none-the-less.

[cathmom]

I didn't hear him say "that one."

 

They both avoided answering questions.

 

I told my dh that if McCain said once more, "I know how to..." I didn't know what I was going to do!

 

I paid attention to health care and have some questions for Obama. What if I want the Congressional insurance but am already currently insured? What if I want employer-based insurance to go by the wayside (as he said McCain's plan would make happen). I think employer-based health insurance is stupid and unnecessarily constrains Americans and hurts productivity. What if a person wants to start a small business but has to stay tied to their job for the insurance? I thought he was very convincing about why crossing state lines for insurance was bad - credit card companies all being in Wilmington because of lax regulations.

 

I have been all over the map in this election. I am Republican and usually vote straight ticket. I have never liked McCain. I liked his VP pick and still do - but is liking her enough to make me vote for McCain? I don't know. I'd rather give her 10-15 years and then vote directly for her.

 

But can I really bring myself to vote for Obama? I don't know.

[Jenny in Atl]

Did anyone pay attention to McCain's Mortgage bail out plan! :blink:

I'm sure the base loved that one. :lol:

[Spy Car]

Dh and I enjoyed it. He brought home some Sam Adam's Oktoberfest beer today, so we decided to play a drinking game with the debates. He got "change" from Obama, and I got "my friend" from McCain. I am a little tipsy, truth be told. My friend, my friend, my friend....AAAG!

 

 

LOL. We played the same game (with vino). What was your "my friends" count?

 

We got 18, but I will admit that at a certain point there might not have been accounting errors :D :lol:

[Vida Winter]

I felt that neither candidate made a convincing argument to win votes from the other side...in other words, if you favored Obama, you will still favor him; if you favored McCain, you will still favor him.

 

I'm not sure what undecideds would do. I though that Obama had better rhetoric on health care (although I vehemently disagree with him). McCain's health care plan is harder to understand. I thought that McCain had a better line on foreign policy. Shrug. The health care issue may give Obama an edge overall.

 

I also felt that the questions asked were not the most relevant to the issues I would be voting on. (Global warming - green movement? Who cares? (when compared to other pressing issues). I much preferred the Saddleback format where each candidate answered the same set of questions - separately.

 

~Dana

[OnTheBrink]

Why? I don't understand why that was significant?

 

It's rude and demeaning to refer to someone in their presence as "that one."

 

 

I have to say, McCain did not impress me. I really wanted him to, because I'm not voting for Obama, no matter how eloquent or smooth he comes across.

 

So, I guess I'll vote for a 3rd party candidate.

[cathmom]

Did anyone pay attention to McCain's Mortgage bail out plan! :blink:

I'm sure the base loved that one. :lol:

 

I just want to know if they are going to renegotiate my credit card debt for me.

[Amy in Orlando]

LOL. We played the same game (with vino). What was your "my friends" count?

 

We got 18, but I will admit that at a certain point there might not have been accounting errors :D :lol:

 

I want to come to one of your houses for the next debate. Dh was worn out and went to bed. :lol:

 

I don't know what to think. McCain was a little weird with the comment to Tom Brokaw, but Obama struck me as arrogant and hard to find a real answer. I"ll probably vote for McCain, but tonight was the first time I've found Obama to be really unlikeable.

 

I just don't know. I wish there could just be a real answer from either side - you know, like SOTW narrations. You get 3-4 sentences and you're done. It all seems so scripted and cautious. And, given my frame of mind lately, I found a lot of what both men had to say insulting.

 

Neither of these men has ever owned a small business. I doubt neither is eating beans for dinner several times a week now. I doubt either of them has lost nearly 1/2 the retirement they scrimped and saved for over the past years. And both have been part of a Congress that has DONE nothing for years. For them to stand there and talk about how they can do "x" and "x" borders on the ridiculous.

 

Sorry, I'm grumpy and worried about what the next four years hold no matter who is elected. Next debate, I'm going to get dh to stay up and we'll get some Sam Adams.

[Erica in PA]

It's rude and demeaning to refer to someone in their presence as "that one."

 

 

I have to say, McCain did not impress me. I really wanted him to, because I'm not voting for Obama, no matter how eloquent or smooth he comes across.

 

So, I guess I'll vote for a 3rd party candidate.

 

I still don't understand why it would be considered rude. I watched the debate, I heard him say that, and I didn't think anything of it at all. Obviously it must have struck a chord with some people, but I just don't see the problem. :confused:

[orangearrow]

I thought the "not you" comment to Brokaw was funny. :001_smile:

 

And, I wasn't insulted at the comment to the guy when McCain said he probably hadn't heard of Fannie and Freddie Mac... probably because I had only heard their names in passing. So, when this whole financial "thing" happened, I really had no clue for a while what was going on and had to research quite a bit (and dh filled me in, lol). I know I wasn't the only American who didn't really have much of a clue who they were. :confused:

[Spy Car]

Sorry, I'm grumpy and worried about what the next four years hold no matter who is elected. Next debate, I'm going to get dh to stay up and we'll get some Sam Adams.

 

It's easier being on the west coast. :grouphug:

 

If it helps we are eating a lot of beans too :cheers2:

 

We have a spot on the couch for you if you want to come out for debate 3 :D

[JudyJudyJudy]

Why? I don't understand why that was significant?

Because it was very rude and showed McCain's character (or lack thereof).

[Erica in PA]

I thought the "not you" comment to Brokaw was funny. :001_smile:

 

And, I wasn't insulted at the comment to the guy when McCain said he probably hadn't heard of Fannie and Freddie Mac... probably because I had only heard their names in passing. So, when this whole financial "thing" happened, I really had no clue for a while what was going on and had to research quite a bit (and dh filled me in, lol). I know I wasn't the only American who didn't really have much of a clue who they were. :confused:

 

Nope... me neither. I know *Sallie Mae,* and I think I had heard of Fannie Mae (though I didn't know what that company was), but I don't think I had even heard the name Freddy Mac until this whole bailout thing. I follow news and politics more closely than most people I know, though admittedly I don't know much at all about finance, so I am sure there are many, many people who didn't know those names until recently. I think it was reasonable for McCain to acknowledge that.

 

Erica

[Amy in Orlando]

It's easier being on the west coast. :grouphug:

 

If it helps we are eating a lot of beans too :cheers2:

 

We have a spot on the couch for you if you want to come out for debate 3 :D

 

EXCELLENT! Thanks. I'll call when I get to the airport.:lol:

[JudyJudyJudy]

I didn't hear him say "that one."

 

He was talking about some bill and said, "You know who voted for it," and snidedly added, "you might never know." Then pointed toward Obama and said, "THAT one."

 

I actually can't wait to see the Saturday Night Live spoof on this debate. :tongue_smilie:

[Erica in PA]

Because it was very rude and showed McCain's character (or lack thereof).

 

But why rude? That is my question. :confused: Having watched the entire debate, I never would have thought that that offhand comment would be discussed afterwards. It didn't catch my attention in any way, for being rude or otherwise. Even now after rewatching it, I don't see what you are seeing in it. Would you have considered it rude if he'd said, "You won't guess who did vote for it... that guy", or "this man", or "that guy over there?"

 

Erica

[cathmom]

Thanks. Was it towards the end? My son called from college so Iwasn't really watching the end. And at various points dh and I were discussing the issues with each other instead of listening to canned "answers."

[JudyJudyJudy]

But why rude? That is my question. :confused: Having watched the entire debate, I never would have thought that that offhand comment would be discussed afterwards. It didn't catch my attention in any way, for being rude or otherwise. Even now after rewatching it, I don't see what you are seeing in it. Would you have considered it rude if he'd said, "You won't guess who did vote for it... that guy", or "this man", or "that guy over there?"

 

Erica

Yes, that would still have been rude. "That one" has a name. McCain should have referred to him by that name.

[Erica in PA]

Thanks. Was it towards the end? My son called from college so Iwasn't really watching the end. And at various points dh and I were discussing the issues with each other instead of listening to canned "answers."

 

Here's the clip if you want to see it:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/07/that-one-mccain-calls-oba_n_132802.html

[JudyJudyJudy]

Thanks. Was it towards the end? My son called from college so Iwasn't really watching the end. And at various points dh and I were discussing the issues with each other instead of listening to canned "answers."

I can't remember where exactly it was in the debate. McCain spent more of his time putting down Obama than saying what he would do, but I thought that was low even for him.

[Erica in PA]

Yes, that would still have been rude. "That one" has a name. McCain should have referred to him by that name.

 

Hmm.. I don't see it. He was talking in an off-hand way at that point, and used a casual phrase. I see that some people elsewhere online are making it into a racial thing (i.e. the Huffington Post site that I linked below), which I think is ludicrous. My opinion that this whole thing is being blown entirely out of proportion, but obviously others see it differently.

[cathmom]

thanks, just watched the clip

 

I do remember that part vaguely but I wasn't paying complete attention. I agree that he should have said, "Senator Obama" not "that one" but honestly, it's not a racial remark and it's going to get spun that way. He was trying to overcome the "Bush Part 3" propaganda.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I stand by my comment that it was rude. However, I don't see it as racial. I think McCain would have done that to anyone whom he views himself as "above."

[Amy loves Bud]

And that's exactly what McCain intended it to be---- a stunner. Because it's flatly untrue.

 

What I found stunning is that McCain says he knows how to catch Bin Ladin and he can do it. Well, great. So why hasn't he done that already? Whatever.

 

astrid

 

I agree. IAnd if you followed McCain's logic in that exchange, the takeaway was that if Pakistan had bin Laden and couldn't or wouldn't take him out, McCain wouldn't do it.

[nmoira]

 

I didn't really hear anything new - except for the invasion of Pakistan. That was a stunner.

There's a difference between invading a country and making an attack on a group within its borders. Such actions by the US are not unprecedented. Obama was also clear that he would only authorize this if the Pakistani government was unable or unwilling to act on clear intelligence as to the whereabouts of Bin Laden. The idea that this is somehow a lack of discretion or giving away the game is laughable. Bin Laden wouldn't be hiding if he didn't think his life was in danger. :rolleyes:

[Jumping In Puddles]

I agree that he should have said, "Senator Obama" not "that one" but honestly, it's not a racial remark and it's going to get spun that way. He was trying to overcome the "Bush Part 3" propaganda.

 

I stand by my comment that it was rude. However, I don't see it as racial. I think McCain would have done that to anyone whom he views himself as "above."

 

Whoa, did anyone say it was racist?

 

What did you all think about the format? I thought it was $%*&! These are important questions and I want to hear the answers, I DON"T CARE ABOUT TIME SLOTS! 1 or 2 minutes????? I don't want a sound bite.

 

How can we have a "debate" with 2 minute answers and 1 minute rebuttal or no rebuttal?

 

As usual, I'm sure the non partisan FactCheck.org will have some interesting reporting!

[Heather in the Kootenays]

But why rude? That is my question. :confused: Having watched the entire debate, I never would have thought that that offhand comment would be discussed afterwards.

 

Erica

 

Perhaps our off hand comments show our character more than scripted remarks.

[dawn of ns]

I'm not picking on you :tongue_smilie:It's just something I have noticed everywhere (especially in regards to our current president). I find it very superficial.

 

My guess is that's what took people aback the most and that's what they need to share before moving on to discussing meetier issues.

[TraceyS/FL]

But why rude? That is my question. :confused: Having watched the entire debate, I never would have thought that that offhand comment would be discussed afterwards. It didn't catch my attention in any way, for being rude or otherwise. Even now after rewatching it, I don't see what you are seeing in it. Would you have considered it rude if he'd said, "You won't guess who did vote for it... that guy", or "this man", or "that guy over there?"

 

Erica

 

 

First off - i didn't watch. A migraine, a 4am wake up that morning, well, i went to bed at 8!

 

BUT, i find this interesting - after the last debate, my husband was extremely upset/frustrated by Obama's inability to get McCain's name right. And not addressing him properly - so perhaps Senator McCain was too?

 

ANyway, i'll have to see what DH says about it....

[Bev in B'ville]

If you were an Obama supporter before the debate, you're still an Obama supporter. If you were a McCain supporter before the debate, you're still a McCain supporter.

 

Nothing earth shattering was said last night that would change someone's mind.

 

The bailout of the housing market that McCain mentioned is actually already part of the $700B plan passed by Congress last week. Nothing new there, just some detail that people who haven't examined the nuances of the bill would know.

 

I found it interesting, though, that Obama did not dispute the payouts from Fannie/Freddie that he received.

 

If you're still on the fence, I would urge you to replay the debate, take notes, listen to the questions, see who answered them and who did not. Really listen to what each candidate is saying, not just their words or their presentation. That's all fluff. It's the substance that matters.

 

For me, I will vote McCain. There are too many pieces of evidence of Obama associating with people that I would not want anywhere near the decision making at the top of the country. Guilty by association. I teach my dc this and I think it's true. You are known by the company you keep and Obama keeps unsavory company.

 

As always, just my musings.

[Soph the vet]

I watched the first hour after my appointments were finished last night at work with my tech, assistant, and receptionist. We work at an independent veterinary clinic, i.e. small business.

When Obama was claiming that "only a very small percentage of small businesses make over $250,000" and would thus be affected by his tax hike, I couldn't believe it. Our clinic, in semirural Minnesota easily makes over that amount. Is he kidding? I about jumped out of my chair yelling liar at the screen. His tax cut to 95% of the population is a joke. He will raise so many corporate taxes and "rich" people taxes, the ones who own businesses and create jobs, that the cost will be passed on to the rest of us regardless through rising costs and less jobs.

I thought McCain, less polished as he is, showed more substance. I will take substance over polish any day.

[lynn]

I had most of my questions answer. We will do much better financially under McCain. There's a couple of thigns that I have not had answered under Obama but I like there plans for the the major issues that will be addressed first. I like that I can keep my insurance company and get a tax break whatever it is under McCain and I like that the child tax credit will go up. It worry's me that Obama wants to "fine" parents who do not get health insurance. I so don't understand this. Isn't there Medicaid for kids and All Kids health insurance available now? It concerns me greatly with all the dictators, communist and terrorist leaders in the world that Obama does not seem to educated or confident foreign policy, war strategy etc. Who will be advising him on this? Anyone know? That's where we turned it off and went to bed. I will say it was a slightly towards McCain