For the 9 year old who wants to know what kinds of writing adults really do...

[kirstenhill]

So, my ever-logical nine year old keeps asking me about what kinds of writing adults REALLY need to do in their jobs or day to day life. He's a very STEM oriented kid so he is wondering what scientists, mathematicians, engineers, etc are doing.

 

But I don't think he is quite up to reading scientific journals yet...LOL!

 

What would you show him/tell him?

 

He has a really hard time being motivated to improve his writing when he just doesn't see the "point" of most things we've tried for writing. He has grudgingly done things like the first two parts of treasured conversations or copywork or summarizing history readings. But he really doesn't see how could possibly connect to any reports he might be writing in his future dream career designing rockets or whatever. ;-)

 

I think he'll like the third part of TC a little better when we tackle that in the fall... But I am just wondering what I could expose him to now or over the summer to increase his motivation level a bit. :-).

[Dmmetler]

What about science bloggers-David Steen's "Living Alongside Wildlife" is a good one-he's a bio professor at Auburn. "Life is Short, Snakes are Long" is another one-Andrew Durso is the writer, and along with being a PhD student at Utah State, he's a blogger for Scientific American as well.

 

If you can see the Dirty Jobs episode about the Lake Erie Water Snake Study, and then visit http://respectthesnake.com/about.html, you can see the writing and Sci-comm side there. The project was so successful that the snake was actually delisted from the endangered species list. We heard Kristen Sanford speak last summer, and according to her, the newsletter and "ask the snake lady" column in the local paper was extremely important in getting the public behind the efforts to help the snake population recover and just leave the animals alone. Science is very dependent on communicating it to the public, and you can't count on the media to do so.

[EKS]

Actually, having him take a look at a few journal articles is not a bad idea.  I'd look for short ones that are about a topic he is interested in.  And I'd read them aloud.

Edited May 23, 2016 by EKS

[theelfqueen]

Well my husband is an astronautical engineer -- so if your dc's dream job is designing rockets, probably a good fit ;)

 

He works in satellite defense. He is constantly writing reports and briefings about testing that his team has been doing to explain it to people who don't necessarily understand their part of the technical process. He sends dozens of emails daily often to high ranking members of the military. He creates powerpoint presentations for briefings. He drafts proposals for funding for projects and tests. He maintains procedural documentation, something that he showed to our son when son was balking about lab reports.

[kirstenhill]

Actually, having him take a look at a few journal articles is not a bad idea.

Do you have any suggestions of where to look to find something that he can comprehend a bit? His reading ability is a just bit above grade level (maybe 5th - 6th grade level at best) for a rising 4th grader.

 

DH does work in a STEM related job, but wasn't able to show DS examples of the things he writes for work due to confidentiality. He summarized it as most of the writing he does now is about telling his boss what he got done this week and emails discussing why certain ideas worked or didn't work on the project they are working on. ;-). I'm not sure that was helpful in trying to convince DS why good writing is important. (To be fair, DH did a lot of academic writing in grad school, but it is technical enough that I can't even understand most of it, much less DS).

[kirstenhill]

Well my husband is an astronautical engineer -- so if your dc's dream job is designing rockets, probably a good fit ;)

 

He works in satellite defense. He is constantly writing reports and briefings about testing that his team has been doing to explain it to people who don't necessarily understand their part of the technical process. He sends dozens of emails daily often to high ranking members of the military. He creates powerpoint presentations for briefings. He drafts proposals for funding for projects and tests. He maintains procedural documentation, something that he showed to our son when son was balking about lab reports.

It's his dream job du jour, but last month the dream job was herpetologist, so who knows what it will be next month. ;-)

 

I wonder if I could actually find examples of things like this if it would motivate DS or if it would just make the kind of writing he is assigned now as a kid seem even less relevant...I don't know! At least it would satisfy his curiosity. My DH writes stuff like this too, but can't really show it to us due to confidentiality. I suppose that might be the case for a lot of "real life" examples of what scientists and engineers are doing.

[Arcadia]

Write a budget proposal for making a prototype of his dream rocket that is convincing enough for someone to fund the prototype :)

 

Most of my hubby's writing is emails about product issues and occasionally conference papers. Sometimes he does slides for project meetings. He is a reliability engineer (R&D area, pre-production). When I was working as an engineer (project management), it was mostly emails too. Testing was done mostly by the engineering technicians and they email the results datasets.

 

My friends who are in R&D science in pharmaceutical firms do lots more testing and lab reports.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Arcadia

[EKS]

Do you have any suggestions of where to look to find something that he can comprehend a bit? His reading ability is a just bit above grade level (maybe 5th - 6th grade level at best) for a rising 4th grader.

 

What is he interested in?  

 

I wouldn't have him read them on his own--I'd read them to him explaining as you go.  

[deerforest]

Well, I work in high tech in a high visible STEM company. I'm a manager, but I spend a lot of time communicating with engineers.

 

Instructions of any type--how to use software, hardware etc.

Emails, emails, emails 

Meeting minutes

Hardware and software design specs (google things like hardware requirements, software requirements, product requirements, design specification, ux specification, ui specification, CAD design, mechanical design, etc. and I'm sure you'll find some samples)

Chats 

Blogs

Videos

Websites

Social media

Discussion boards

PowerPoint presentations.. oh gosh, how did I forget them!

Data analyses -- charts, statistics, metrics, etc.

SoWs (statement of work) 

 

I hate to burst his bubble but a lot of writing in STEM companies is simple business communication. I'm actually surprised by how infrequently I see people teaching these skills.

Edited May 23, 2016 by deerforest

[lllll]

Dh also has to write up papers for presentations at conferences periodically, complete with charts, graphs, etc.  His boss has them turn in their papers to him so he can offer suggestions.  And dh 'practices' by having me listen to him at home (as my eyes glaze over from total lack of understanding ;)). 

 

And patents.  I think he had to write up stuff for that.  Can't remember exactly.

 

And lots and lots of documentation for everything they do, usually in the form of emails.

[EmilyGF]

My husband is an astrophysicist.

 

He writes emails.

He gives speeches (lots of them). Speeches are written in some form before being given.

He writes project proposals. We're talking long proposals.

He writes "personal statements" about his research direction.

He writes "teaching statements" about his philosophy of research.

He writes up his research (who cares what his research is if they can't understand it?).

He documents computer codes to others can use them.

 

As a "rocket scientist" aka aerospace engineer, I:

 

Wrote powerpoint presentations about my conclusions.

Wrote why certain purchases would (or wouldn't) benefit the company.

Wrote a user guide to a Graphical User Interface I wrote.

Designed a website for a widespread geographic collaboration to use.

Wrote a 10-page research summary.

and, of course, emails.

 

Emily

[vonfirmath]

Writing up summaries for change requests as to the work that is done.

 

Writing emails to justify why costs should be paid when the owner does not think they should be.

 

Writing summaries of meetings where decisions are made so they can be referred back to in the future when there is a conflict as to what was decided.

 

Writing up maintenance information -- how to properly maintain the expensive equipment that was purchased so its warranty will be honored if it breaks down.  How to replace filters, etc. Lists of replaceable parts and where to obtain them.

 

Writing up different aspects of my job so someone else can do them while I am on vacation. (including step by step instructions and pictures for the databases I need to regularly access.)

 

When I did more coding, I wrote up user instructions to access the database, Manuals on how to use it. And lots of Comments inside the code to remind a future programmer (even if it was me) what bits of code did (or was supposed to do) and why it was inserted.

 

At our school, teachers research and write detail grant applications to gain money for specific purposes.  One of my daughter's teachers just got a grant for $3,000 to make an outside classroom for future class years.  The new playground was the result of some of the parents getting together to write up the praises of another teacher for a grocery store contests. The money won was spent on replacing the falling-down 15 year playground they had previously.

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2016 by vonfirmath

[RenaInTexas]

Well I am a mathematician of 15+ years. Tell your son that writing is actually the hardest but most important part of my job. The work of mathematicians and engineers have to be communicated in writing. The better the written communication, the more successful the STEM-person is at getting their mathematical ideas and techniques implemented. You can have a GREAT idea based on very sound math and engineering, but if you can't communicate that idea in a simple, straightforward way, then it will never be utilized. You have to be able to explain yourself in writing to the decision makers who don't know advanced math.  Every mathematical model I build requires a written technical document explaining the methodology and how to use. 

 

In addition to company technical documents and white papers, I have also had the privilege of publishing (co-authoring) papers in medical journals and engineering journals. I had to write the mathematical analysis sections of those papers to explain the math that I used and how I arrived at my conclusions. There is no other way to share the work you have completed than to produce written work about it....to present to the world/colleagues  through publication. You can't just talk about it, people need to see it, touch it, feel it. The need it broken down.

 

Case in point (you decide if you want to share it), but the Columbia space shuttle disaster was linked (in part) to poor communication. The engineers knew the dangers of launching in those temperatures, but had not communicated a clear picture of that danger to the decision makers. This is an extreme example, but STEM-people MUST be able to communicate their ideas or they can lead to disaster (usually financial). At the very least your ideas will never be implemented and thus you won't be very successful.

 

My DH is also an Industrial Engineer and when he suggests a change in how they staff or ship their products, he has to create a presentation communicating what logic he used to arrive at his decision. His communication has to be CLEAR and well supported because he is adding or reducing jobs and expenses. If his ideas are not clear, he won't get any support.

 

Writing is still a struggle for me as it is for most mathematical people, but it is an invaluable and unavoidable part of what I do.

[mom2scouts]

My adult son is a chemist. He has to keep *very* detailed journals of everything he does in the lab. When he shows the journals to his boss, the boss needs to be able to read it and know every step, every chemical, every procedure, and every amount used in the experiment and then needs know the results in detail. My son prints neatly in tiny letters and has his journals lining his desk. Being able to write clearly, concisely, and neatly is critical to his job as a research scientist.

[brookspr]

I, too, was a research chemist in a previous life. In addition to keeping a meticulous lab notebook(being able to reproduce a reaction is key to chemistry research) I also had to write quarterly reports describing our research for the VP's. I also wrote personal performance goals each year and an end of year appraisal describing how my year went, what I did well, and what needed to be improved. We gave presentations at chemistry conferences world-wide, so knowing how to put together an abstract, a poster presentation and a slide deck was important. If you are a lab director, you need to know how to write a scientific paper for journal publication. Plus, the directors communicate with scientists around the world regarding their research, so being able to write a clear and concise email is very important.

 

When starting a new research project, the chemists must pour over all of the previous research done on the target and summarize the key components for presentation to the managers in support of working on said target. You must keep up on the most current research by reading journals and constantly updating your team on what is out there and what hasn't been done yet. So being able to read a document and summarize the key concepts can have a serious impact on whether or not your project will get funded.

 

[lllll]

Well I am a mathematician of 15+ years. Tell your son that writing is actually the hardest but most important part of my job. The work of mathematicians and engineers have to be communicated in writing. The better the written communication, the more successful the STEM-person is at getting their mathematical ideas and techniques implemented. You can have a GREAT idea based on very sound math and engineering, but if you can't communicate that idea in a simple, straightforward way, then it will never be utilized. You have to be able to explain yourself in writing to the decision makers who don't know advanced math.  Every mathematical model I build requires a written technical document explaining the methodology and how to use. 

 

In addition to company technical documents and white papers, I have also had the privilege of publishing (co-authoring) papers in medical journals and engineering journals. I had to write the mathematical analysis sections of those papers to explain the math that I used and how I arrived at my conclusions. There is no other way to share the work you have completed than to produce written work about it....to present to the world/colleagues  through publication. You can't just talk about it, people need to see it, touch it, feel it. The need it broken down.

 

Case in point (you decide if you want to share it), but the Columbia space shuttle disaster was linked (in part) to poor communication. The engineers knew the dangers of launching in those temperatures, but had not communicated a clear picture of that danger to the decision makers. This is an extreme example, but STEM-people MUST be able to communicate their ideas or they can lead to disaster (usually financial). At the very least your ideas will never be implemented and thus you won't be very successful.

 

My DH is also an Industrial Engineer and when he suggests a change in how they staff or ship their products, he has to create a presentation communicating what logic he used to arrive at his decision. His communication has to be CLEAR and well supported because he is adding or reducing jobs and expenses. If his ideas are not clear, he won't get any support.

 

Writing is still a struggle for me as it is for most mathematical people, but it is an invaluable and unavoidable part of what I do.

 

This is what my dh said when I asked him OP's question last night.  If you can't communicate and document your ideas and such, then it's of little use.  To share (and document) your work it must be communicated somehow, and that's usually via the written word. 

 

And he's complained from time to time about the writing of some of the other engineers he works with, too.  It's definitely a problem if you can't communicate clearly such that others can understand your work. 

[domestic_engineer]

What would you show him/tell him?

 

He has a really hard time being motivated to improve his writing when he just doesn't see the "point" of most things we've tried for writing. He has grudgingly done things like the first two parts of treasured conversations or copywork or summarizing history readings. But he really doesn't see how could possibly connect to any reports he might be writing in his future dream career designing rockets or whatever. ;-)

 

I think he'll like the third part of TC a little better when we tackle that in the fall... But I am just wondering what I could expose him to now or over the summer to increase his motivation level a bit. :-).

Could it be that all the writing you are assigning are part of the creative writing/fiction genre?  Just like boys stereotypically prefer reading non-fiction to fiction?  I'm not sure that *I* even see the "point" of lots of the writing activities for the early grades.

 

Everyone else has given great examples of why writing/communication is imperative.  But you're right, we don't really assign schoolwork that mirrors the real-life usage of writing.  And everybody's responses, while accurate, aren't necessarily going to motivate a 9 yr old boy.  

 

So here are some ideas to promote the use of non-fiction in the hopes that your son will find a correlation between his schoolwork and future careers:

(1)  Creek Edge Task Cards .... then he can research and write some kind of summary telling you what he learned.  (The problem I see with this is that it doesn't give explicit instructions on HOW to organize your thoughts into a good essay.  I don't have any advice for you on this topic, as I'm struggling with it myself.)

(2)  Read good non-fiction.  Michael Clay Thompson believes you need to provide children with good, academic writing to read in order to prepare them for future academic writing, and thus he has written/included some essays in his vocabulary curriculum.  In this post, dmmetler suggested the free InvestiGATOR magazine.  It's non-fiction, scientific stuff aimed at middle schoolers.  I haven't personally gone through it all yet, but it looks promising.

(3)  Maybe make a scrapbook/shutterfly book to summarize his school year.  (This will make him organize his thoughts into pages (like paragraphs), and document his work (summary skills).  And it will all be done in order to effectively communicate the work he has performed ... just like real STEM professionals.)

(4)  Make a catalog of his Lego creations, nature findings, etc.  Insert a picture, document how to create it, sizes, how to use it, etc.  Perhaps similar to those books on Star Wars weapons or David MacCaulay's The Way Things Work.

(5)  Good curriculum for engineering education will always involve reporting their findings to the customer; this is an important factor that differentiates it from a mere building activity.  Check out some Model Eliciting Activities (MEAs) for Engineering.  Here's a list of some.

(6)  Journal.  "Like a scientist's notebook that serves as a record of discovery - whether they deem it important or not at the time, it's important to document it (and the process) if it IS later deemed a breakthrough.  So DS, why don't you get in the habit of writing down what you do each day?"

 

Additionally, perhaps the attitude is just a 9 year old boy thing?!?  "I must know WHY something is useful in order for me to deem it worthy of any effort.  And in the mean time, I'm going to complain and drag my feet about this ... and everything."  I wouldn't know anything about this.  *roll eyes*

[EKS]

Also, I should mention (in addition to my posts above) that I worked as a scientist in a biopharmaceutical company and later morphed into a scientific/medical writer at that same company.

 

As a scientist I had to write:

 

Memos/emails

Lab notebook entries

Standard operating procedures

Study reports

 

When I was promoted to supervisor, in addition to the above, I had to write personnel reviews and rewrite other people's terribly written procedures and reports.

 

As a scientific writer, my job was to decipher documents scientists throughout the company had written, that more often than not were incomprehensible to an outside reader, and then rewrite them into FDAese.  It was a total joy when I came upon a reasonably well written document as they were few and far between.

 

Being able to write coherently is critically important in science.  It doesn't need to be fancy (and in most cases shouldn't be), but it needs to say what the author means for it to say (in my experience, this was not a given) and a reader who is familiar with the field should not have to work to decipher meaning.  

 

 

 

[kirstenhill]

Could it be that all the writing you are assigning are part of the creative writing/fiction genre? Just like boys stereotypically prefer reading non-fiction to fiction? I'm not sure that *I* even see the "point" of lots of the writing activities for the early grades.

 

Everyone else has given great examples of why writing/communication is imperative. But you're right, we don't really assign schoolwork that mirrors the real-life usage of writing. And everybody's responses, while accurate, aren't necessarily going to motivate a 9 yr old boy.

 

So here are some ideas to promote the use of non-fiction in the hopes that your son will find a correlation between his schoolwork and future careers:

(1) Creek Edge Task Cards .... then he can research and write some kind of summary telling you what he learned. (The problem I see with this is that it doesn't give explicit instructions on HOW to organize your thoughts into a good essay. I don't have any advice for you on this topic, as I'm struggling with it myself.)

(2) Read good non-fiction. Michael Clay Thompson believes you need to provide children with good, academic writing to read in order to prepare them for future academic writing, and thus he has written/included some essays in his vocabulary curriculum. In this post, dmmetler suggested the free InvestiGATOR magazine. It's non-fiction, scientific stuff aimed at middle schoolers. I haven't personally gone through it all yet, but it looks promising.

(3) Maybe make a scrapbook/shutterfly book to summarize his school year. (This will make him organize his thoughts into pages (like paragraphs), and document his work (summary skills). And it will all be done in order to effectively communicate the work he has performed ... just like real STEM professionals.)

(4) Make a catalog of his Lego creations, nature findings, etc. Insert a picture, document how to create it, sizes, how to use it, etc. Perhaps similar to those books on Star Wars weapons or David MacCaulay's The Way Things Work.

(5) Good curriculum for engineering education will always involve reporting their findings to the customer; this is an important factor that differentiates it from a mere building activity. Check out some Model Eliciting Activities (MEAs) for Engineering. Here's a list of some.

(6) Journal. "Like a scientist's notebook that serves as a record of discovery - whether they deem it important or not at the time, it's important to document it (and the process) if it IS later deemed a breakthrough. So DS, why don't you get in the habit of writing down what you do each day?"

 

Additionally, perhaps the attitude is just a 9 year old boy thing?!? "I must know WHY something is useful in order for me to deem it worthy of any effort. And in the mean time, I'm going to complain and drag my feet about this ... and everything." I wouldn't know anything about this. *roll eyes*

 

I'm sure some of it is a "nine year old boy" thing...but in general he seems to like to work hard when he has a clear idea of the purpose in mind.

 

We've done a mix of things in the past two years, and while most of it wasn't creative writing per se, most elementary writing curricula/assignments tend to come more from the humanities than the STEM fields (summarize this story, do copywork from this literature or history reading, use this outline of a story to write a paragraph, etc). I'm not trying to cut out all those kinds of assignments by any means...he just doesn't see the connection to "real world" writing in these types of assignments. I know I could just sat "suck it up" and do it anyway, but I would rather find ways to make connections between what he is doing now, and the things he is actually interested in or what types of writing is actually done by adults.

[Arcadia]

Try Stem to Story, doable before 5th grade. We used the library copy.

 

http://www.amazon.com/STEM-Story-Enthralling-Effective-Lesson/dp/1119001013

[domestic_engineer]

Try Stem to Story, doable before 5th grade. We used the library copy.

 

http://www.amazon.com/STEM-Story-Enthralling-Effective-Lesson/dp/1119001013

That looks really cool!  Thanks for recommending it!

You mentioned that you used the library copy --- so is it worth buying your own copy?

[kirstenhill]

Try Stem to Story, doable before 5th grade. We used the library copy.

 

http://www.amazon.com/STEM-Story-Enthralling-Effective-Lesson/dp/1119001013

That looks really cool!

[Arcadia]

You mentioned that you used the library copy --- so is it worth buying your own copy?

The book was recommended by Silvermoon in one of the threads.

 

Post #4

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/589339-curriculum-advise-10yog/

 

Whether you should get your own copy depends on how popular the book is at your library. For a three week loan and a renew for another three weeks, we could finish the book. If I needed it longer, my hubby could have borrowed right after I returned it :)

[kirstenhill]

The book was recommended by Silvermoon in one of the threads.

 

Post #4

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/589339-curriculum-advise-10yog/

 

Whether you should get your own copy depends on how popular the book is at your library. For a three week loan and a renew for another three weeks, we could finish the book. If I needed it longer, my hubby could have borrowed right after I returned it :)

 

My library doesn't even own it!  So, I already made an impulsive amazon purchase...LOL   The deciding factor was I read the table of contents to DS9, and he said it sounded awesome.  :-) 

[GailV]

I wonder if it would be interesting to him to also see what high school kids in STEM are writing, and what college kids in STEM are writing ... sort of following the trail through the years to arrive at the goal of the career.  (I'm saying this as a parent of a STEM college student who ends up doing the writing for group projects.  She's good at writing, and little impatient with her classmates who aren't.)

 

 

[vonfirmath]

I wonder if it would be interesting to him to also see what high school kids in STEM are writing, and what college kids in STEM are writing ... sort of following the trail through the years to arrive at the goal of the career.  (I'm saying this as a parent of a STEM college student who ends up doing the writing for group projects.  She's good at writing, and little impatient with her classmates who aren't.)

 

I know in HS, I did a lot of lab reports and Science fair projects for STEM writing *wry*

 

(And taking notes for myself to study off of. Sometimes just the process of writing it down helped to cement the information into my head)

Edited May 24, 2016 by vonfirmath

[chocolate-chip chooky]

Before even getting to the point of a career in STEM, there's the post-school study to consider.

 

It has helped my 10yr old to see her two older sisters writing essays for their uni studies.

One studies criminology, so essays are a given.

But the other is studying a double degree in maths/IT and even she has to write essays.

 

Whatever the field, effective academic and professional communication is a must.

[mamamoose]

In my first life, I was a writer/editor for science evaluations, and before that, an actual scientist who wrote evaluations myself (I worked in environmental science). When I had kids, my husband and I decided we did not want our children in childcare and I quit that job and we started up our own business. My husband is dyslexic, but he is an amazing entrepreneur and we have a construction company. I do all the writing and bid-work for the business because he is unable to write quickly and efficiently. So, when I am not teaching our children, I am doing bids and sending emails, which often involves explicit letters to homeowner's associations, etc. So...even if your son is not "bound for college" writing is VERY important. My husband does have a college degree, but its not in construction, and even he will say he wishes he had spent more time in his younger years learning how to be a better writer. This logic is not working for our son, who also hates to write, but we remind him frequently. He just says he will marry a good writer. LOL!