If you bring your pet to the grocery store..

[magnificent_baby]

I understand privacy laws, and love pets...However, I would like to see pet licensing and insurance requirements for people who bring them into public places.  

 

One of our Walmarts' is frequented by a man who brings in a big ( around 100lbs) dog that displays aggressive skittish behavior.  The dog growls, occasionally barks, hunches his shoulders and jets his head down; the man with him loves the attention.  

 

Fyi Walmart, I leave the store when that wacko (the owner) is in there.

 

I would be furious and refuse to shop there unless his dog was banned. 

 

Not to start a debate, but on a similar note, I hate hate hate when people bring more aggressive breeds to youth sporting events. There is NO need for that, IMO. Our soccer complex has an animal ban, but the baseball fields do not. 

[kahlanne]

I would be furious and refuse to shop there unless his dog was banned. 

 

Not to start a debate, but on a similar note, I hate hate hate when people bring more aggressive breeds to youth sporting events. There is NO need for that, IMO. Our soccer complex has an animal ban, but the baseball fields do not. 

 

Really? The only dogs I have run into that are more aggressive breeds are pits and dobermans and have seen many at youth sports. I have yet to see one that isn't top notch obedient. It has always been the little dogs that cause the most disturbance, running on the field (retractable leash), peeing on other people's chairs, snapping at kids,etc. This isn't to say I haven't seen some little breeds that were top notch trained but overall not near as many fit this category as the larger breeds that I see. I believe so many think little dogs are cute and can't do much damage so they take risks that a great large breed owner wouldn't. Nobody is looking at the small dogs and thinking man I worry about them doing something wrong until it is done yet a large breed dog has to be on its best behavior to overcome that fear and even then it isn't enough. Sad for the dog but I understand people's fear, rational or not. BTW, the only dog that has ever bitten me is a miniature poodle that bit my cheek/mouth and I got 8 stitches. For this reason I tell my kids to ask before approaching a dog.

[indigomama]

There are two people that bring their dogs to our church. I was really shocked when I first saw it. One is always in a carrier, and I've heard it's for the woman as an emotional support pet, but the husband is the one always carrying it. 

 

The other dog is never crated, just usually tucked into the woman's jacket. We are in a very small sanctuary that is usually packed, and I don't think it's fair for those with allergies. 

 

But, the pastors do not want to break any laws by asking about them, so it's just kind of ignored for right how.

[Southern Ivy]

I see it every time we go to Wal Mart.  It is so insane how this is now allowed.  A friend said a Wal Mart employee told them they aren't allowed to challenge a pet in the store because it might be a service animal.

Which is stupid, because a teacup Yorkie or chihuahua are not going to be service animals. I see these quite a bit, too. :/ 

[JumpyTheFrog]

I haven't seen dogs as soccer...only at gymnastics meets. Someone did ride a horse around the field at soccer practice once.

[Bluegoat]

Really? The only dogs I have run into that are more aggressive breeds are pits and dobermans and have seen many at youth sports. I have yet to see one that isn't top notch obedient. It has always been the little dogs that cause the most disturbance, running on the field (retractable leash), peeing on other people's chairs, snapping at kids,etc. This isn't to say I haven't seen some little breeds that were top notch trained but overall not near as many fit this category as the larger breeds that I see. I believe so many think little dogs are cute and can't do much damage so they take risks that a great large breed owner wouldn't. Nobody is looking at the small dogs and thinking man I worry about them doing something wrong until it is done yet a large breed dog has to be on its best behavior to overcome that fear and even then it isn't enough. Sad for the dog but I understand people's fear, rational or not. BTW, the only dog that has ever bitten me is a miniature poodle that bit my cheek/mouth and I got 8 stitches. For this reason I tell my kids to ask before approaching a dog.

 

Ugh.  I was bitten in the face by a miniature poodle as a kid.  I think it is why I never warmed up to little dogs.

 

I agree about the "aggressive dogs" thing.  Better not to bring an actual aggressive dog to a sporting event, who cares about the breed?

[Bluegoat]

I haven't seen dogs as soccer...only at gymnastics meets. Someone did ride a horse around the field at soccer practice once.

 

There used to be a guy here who kept taking his horse through the Tim Horton's drive-through. 

[Ravin]

I'll count myself lucky that we have different Safeway locations then. 4 years here, often in Safeway (it's less than a full block away) and nary a visible dog. I know any dog can be deemed a service animal but it hasn't been an issue here. The people I know who have service dogs for emotional reasons seem to have done that (you can get a doctor to sign off) so they can get around no dog rules in rentals but they don't take the dog with them 24/7.

 

Emotional Support Dogs are not service dogs. They are included in housing exceptions and can be taken in the cabin of an airplane, but they do not have the access to other places of general public accomodation that a service dog does. 

 

A service dog has to actually do trained tasks to assist its owner, not just be present for emotional support. 

[Ravin]

There used to be a guy here who kept taking his horse through the Tim Horton's drive-through. 

 

What's wrong with that? Does Tim Horton's provide hitching posts? If not, how else are you going to get your takeaway on horseback?

 

I have used the drive through on a bicycle. Generally I would get away with it if I had a kid strapped in behind me. Not so much just by myself.

[Ravin]

Which is stupid, because a teacup Yorkie or chihuahua are not going to be service animals. I see these quite a bit, too. :/ 

 

They might be trained to warn a diabetic when their blood sugar is low or an epileptic that there's a seizure coming. The definition of service dog in the U.S. includes any that is trained to do tasks to assist a person with a disability. Not all such tasks require large size.

[Ravin]

There are two people that bring their dogs to our church. I was really shocked when I first saw it. One is always in a carrier, and I've heard it's for the woman as an emotional support pet, but the husband is the one always carrying it. 

 

The other dog is never crated, just usually tucked into the woman's jacket. We are in a very small sanctuary that is usually packed, and I don't think it's fair for those with allergies. 

 

But, the pastors do not want to break any laws by asking about them, so it's just kind of ignored for right how.

 

As posted above, asking about them is not illegal. And an emotional support animal is not a service dog and does not have to be given access to places like the church sanctuary. Though by the same token, they aren't obligated to exclude them by any laws, either.

[Ravin]

I have seen this stated in ADA, but I don't understand how HIPAA would apply in grocery store with a customer. How is that relationship covered by HIPAA as Jean suggested. (Jean, I am not attacking you - just trying to understand the relationship as people say things like this and I don't think that HIPAA applies in this case.)

 

Even based just on the HIPPAA training I received at Walmart (cashiers and pharmacy stockers get it), it wouldn't. As posted above by someone else, you can ask if the animal is a service animal and what service it performs. That is sufficient to weed out the emotional support animals and pets without 1. being unnecessarily nosy or 2. unnecessarily harassing the person with the service animal.

 

I never heard of that policy of never asking no matter what when I worked at Walmart. It may be a "that's a management call, so low level employees don't ask" sort of thing.

[magnificent_baby]

Really? The only dogs I have run into that are more aggressive breeds are pits and dobermans and have seen many at youth sports. I have yet to see one that isn't top notch obedient. It has always been the little dogs that cause the most disturbance, running on the field (retractable leash), peeing on other people's chairs, snapping at kids,etc. This isn't to say I haven't seen some little breeds that were top notch trained but overall not near as many fit this category as the larger breeds that I see. I believe so many think little dogs are cute and can't do much damage so they take risks that a great large breed owner wouldn't. Nobody is looking at the small dogs and thinking man I worry about them doing something wrong until it is done yet a large breed dog has to be on its best behavior to overcome that fear and even then it isn't enough. Sad for the dog but I understand people's fear, rational or not. BTW, the only dog that has ever bitten me is a miniature poodle that bit my cheek/mouth and I got 8 stitches. For this reason I tell my kids to ask before approaching a dog.

 

My fear is that the more aggressive breed will see something it wants to go after and the owner will not be able to stop it. I don't think I would have any problem kicking a miniature poodle off my ankle or getting it away from a small child but I don't think I'd be able to do the same with a pit. From what I understand, it's that breed that locks on, so to speak. I really don't see a point in bringing it to a game with small children everywhere, seems too risky. 

[Ravin]

I made the mistake of mentioning to my spouse in passing, "I can't believe people bring their pets in the store today."

 

Some lady walking her little dog around started haranging me through the store, shouting out that some people have emotional support animals.

 

Whatever.  You seriously need a dog to go buy a few groceries?    No one wants them near the food.  I got in and out as fast as I could and kept my mouth shut. 

 

As a landlord, I heard ridiculous lies about pets that were suddenly service animals or emotional support animals when it was discovered that we don't do pets (which, incidentally, was very clear up front but people can't be bothered to even read). 

 

 

Emotional support animals don't get grocery store access. A landlord can ask for documentation of the animal being an emotional support animal, and can ask the same questions as a shopkeeper as to it being a service animal.

[hornblower]

My fear is that the more aggressive breed will see something it wants to go after and the owner will not be able to stop it. I don't think I would have any problem kicking a miniature poodle off my ankle or getting it away from a small child but I don't think I'd be able to do the same with a pit. From what I understand, it's that breed that locks on, so to speak. I really don't see a point in bringing it to a game with small children everywhere, seems too risky. 

 

It is a myth that pitties have jaws that 'lock on'. 

 

Any dog can bite. Small dogs can bite hard and fast and repeatedly and leave considerable damage requiring surgical repair. 

 

All dogs near children should be friendly & under control of an adult. 

 

All children around dogs should know how to behave around dogs. No screeching, running, flailing. ie. do not impersonate a bunny. If approached by a strange dog you don't know, stand like a tree. Hands down by the side and stand still. Do nothing. Avoid looking at the dog. If you're boring, the dog will go away. 

[Ravin]

But this is what you are missing:   Emotional support animals (ESA) do NOT have public access rights, meaning they can not go into restaurants, grocery stores, etc.  They only things that ESAs may do that regular 'pets' can not do is live in rental housing that pets may not be allowed and fly on planes (in the cabin for free)

 

Emotional support animals do NOT equal service dogs.  Therapy dogs do NOT equal service dogs.  They do not have the same rights.  

 

Technically, service dogs don't have any rights, either. The rights are those of the person who has/needs the service dog.

[Ravin]

I was at Braums the other day. ( ice cream/casual food/ market).

 

This guy came in with a huge beautiful parrot on his shoulder. NOT potty trained. Ewww

 

Service animal

 

Nope. By law, only dogs can be service animals, at least as far as Federal law is concerned. There might be a state law in your state which has a broader definition that applies, though.

[kahlanne]

What's wrong with that? Does Tim Horton's provide hitching posts? If not, how else are you going to get your takeaway on horseback?

 

I have used the drive through on a bicycle. Generally I would get away with it if I had a kid strapped in behind me. Not so much just by myself.

 

Off on a tangent but some might find it funny. Our town had arrested a man for drunk driving/riding a horse after visiting the local drive thru daiquiri shop.

[kahlanne]

My fear is that the more aggressive breed will see something it wants to go after and the owner will not be able to stop it. I don't think I would have any problem kicking a miniature poodle off my ankle or getting it away from a small child but I don't think I'd be able to do the same with a pit. From what I understand, it's that breed that locks on, so to speak. I really don't see a point in bringing it to a game with small children everywhere, seems too risky. 

 

I understand the fear. The fact is a pitbull can do more damage more quickly than a poodle but that wasn't my point really. I my day to day life I find that most large breed dogs especially ones thought to be aggressive and that have owners that take them to the park, children's sports, etc, tend to be trained better than smaller dogs that you meet at the same places. Generally I think it is due to the fear you mentioned but people underestimate what a small dog can do especially to a child. Personally, I don't think either belong at a kid's sporting event as there are too many factors that can change quickly.  While you may know your dog's training, you never know what a random child will do to cause the training to fail.

[zimom]

Technically, service dogs don't have any rights, either. The rights are those of the person who has/needs the service dog.

 

ok, ok.  stop splitting hairs.  You know I was explaining the difference between service dogs and emotional support animals which you were too.   

 

I'm married to an attorney which I know you are too.  Don't make me argue with one here too ;)

[TravelingChris]

I have to say that around here the only places indoors where I have seen dogs are pet stores and veterinarians, kennels, and dog groomers.  Never seen one at Barnes and Noble or Home Depot or at any grocery store, department store, church, or what have you.

[zimom]

There are two people that bring their dogs to our church. I was really shocked when I first saw it. One is always in a carrier, and I've heard it's for the woman as an emotional support pet, but the husband is the one always carrying it. 

 

The other dog is never crated, just usually tucked into the woman's jacket. We are in a very small sanctuary that is usually packed, and I don't think it's fair for those with allergies. 

 

But, the pastors do not want to break any laws by asking about them, so it's just kind of ignored for right how.

 

Actually churches are one of the few places that the ADA does not apply and they do not have to allow service dogs.  I can't actually imagine one that would not, but they don't have to:

 

Q34. Are churches, temples, synagogues, mosques, and other places of worship required to allow individuals to bring their service animals into the facility?

 

A. No.  Religious institutions and organizations are specifically exempt from the ADA.  However, there may be State laws that apply to religious organizations.

from: http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

[zimom]

My daughter and I just returned from the Invictus Games, an international paralympic style multi-sport event for wounded warriors.   There were numerous service dogs including my daughter's.   The dogs all were attuned to their owners and when other dogs walked by they may have given them a glance but that was it.   In the over six hours we were there I never heard a single bark or growl, not a single dog was out of control, in a stroller, or being held.

[zimom]

Nope. By law, only dogs can be service animals, at least as far as Federal law is concerned. There might be a state law in your state which has a broader definition that applies, though.

 

And occasionally miniature horses, which I know they have a longer life span, but I still don't get the appeal.  

[BarbecueMom]

It is a myth that pitties have jaws that 'lock on'.

 

Any dog can bite. Small dogs can bite hard and fast and repeatedly and leave considerable damage requiring surgical repair.

 

All dogs near children should be friendly & under control of an adult.

 

All children around dogs should know how to behave around dogs. No screeching, running, flailing. ie. do not impersonate a bunny. If approached by a strange dog you don't know, stand like a tree. Hands down by the side and stand still. Do nothing. Avoid looking at the dog. If you're boring, the dog will go away.

No. At my son's ballgame, there are toddlers on the sideline clapping and yelling for their brothers, screeching, "Go Ball!" Dropping hot dog pieces. And we get blankets and set up away from others so the little ones can wander around a bit.

 

I'm not going to make my kid be a statue just so someone can bring their dog to sniff around next to us.

 

ETA: And this is a hot button topic for me because the fields around here do not allow pets, but someone always ignores that rule and brings Fido for whatever reason. So not only am I trying to watch my son play, keep my toddler entertained, and watch for fly balls (sometimes from two fields if we're in between them), I also have to keep an eye on someone else's animal. And if flailing kid hands bother a dog, the last place it needs to be is a little league game.

Edited May 11, 2016 by BarbecueMom

[hornblower]

And occasionally miniature horses, which I know they have a longer life span, but I still don't get the appeal.  

 

I puffy heart dogs but I totally would love a mini horse too. 

 

This is a longish article from the NYT about this whole issue of guide/service/therapy/support animals. Addresses many of the issues we've talked about in this thread. 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/04/magazine/04Creatures-t.html?_r=2&emc=eta1

 

& has a picture of Panda the clicker trained mini horse. 

 

check out Panda here: 

[Excelsior! Academy]

Ugh.  I was bitten in the face by a miniature poodle as a kid.  I think it is why I never warmed up to little dogs.

 

I agree about the "aggressive dogs" thing.  Better not to bring an actual aggressive dog to a sporting event, who cares about the breed?

 

Yep!

 

There used to be a guy here who kept taking his horse through the Tim Horton's drive-through. 

 

That's funny!  I don't see anything wrong with it, provided the horse isn't spooked by cars.  

 

 

Off on a tangent but some might find it funny. Our town had arrested a man for drunk driving/riding a horse after visiting the local drive thru daiquiri shop.

 

Why would there be a drive-through daiquiri shop in the first place?!  What the...?

[TranquilMind]

Emotional support animals don't get grocery store access. A landlord can ask for documentation of the animal being an emotional support animal, and can ask the same questions as a shopkeeper as to it being a service animal.

I know, but they won't.  They are all afraid of being sued for refusing a service animal, and many do not  understand the distinctions. 

[Ravin]

Off on a tangent but some might find it funny. Our town had arrested a man for drunk driving/riding a horse after visiting the local drive thru daiquiri shop.

 

That would be an entertaining one to defend.

[Ravin]

I know, but they won't.  They are all afraid of being sued for refusing a service animal, and many do not  understand the distinctions. 

 

When not knowing the law causes more grief and costs more than finding out would, it's time to consult an attorney.

[Ravin]

 

Why would there be a drive-through daiquiri shop in the first place?!  What the...?

 

I've seen them in Texas. Especially handy when you've got to drive almost to the county line to find a liquor store, if they have a drive through...

[Ravin]

I puffy heart dogs but I totally would love a mini horse too. 

 

This is a longish article from the NYT about this whole issue of guide/service/therapy/support animals. Addresses many of the issues we've talked about in this thread. 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/04/magazine/04Creatures-t.html?_r=2&emc=eta1

 

& has a picture of Panda the clicker trained mini horse. 

 

check out Panda here: 

 

Since this article was written, the ADA reform was put through; As of March 15, 2011, only dogs trained to do work or perform tasks for individuals are recognized by the DOJ as service animals.

 

http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

[hornblower]

Since this article was written, the ADA reform was put through; As of March 15, 2011, only dogs trained to do work or perform tasks for individuals are recognized by the DOJ as service animals.

 

http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

 

 

ah, I didn't know that about the US situation. 

 

In BC we only recognize dogs as well, and they either have to be certified through ADI or IGDF or pass a test administered by the Ministry. It's a very stringent test. The vast vast majority of dogs will not pass it but it does provide an avenue for people to get the assistance dogs they train themselves to be certified. 

[Mergath]

After this thread, I was googling and apparently there are OCD service dogs that are trained to help their owners during periods of severe freaking out. And they're actual certified service dogs, not emotional support animals or whatever. There's a whole category of psychiatric service dogs. I totally want one. My OCD is awful.

[zimom]

Since this article was written, the ADA reform was put through; As of March 15, 2011, only dogs trained to do work or perform tasks for individuals are recognized by the DOJ as service animals.

 

http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

 

No.  Again, miniature horses are allowed.

 

from your link: http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

In addition to the provisions about service dogs, the Department’s revised ADA regulations have a new, separate provision about miniature horses that have been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. (Miniature horses generally range in height from 24 inches to 34 inches measured to the shoulders and generally weigh between 70 and 100 pounds.) Entities covered by the ADA must modify their policies to permit miniature horses where reasonable. The regulations set out four assessment factors to assist entities in determining whether miniature horses can be accommodated in their facility. The assessment factors are (1) whether the miniature horse is housebroken; (2) whether the miniature horse is under the owner’s control; (3) whether the facility can accommodate the miniature horse’s type, size, and weight; and (4) whether the miniature horse’s presence will not compromise legitimate safety requirements necessary for safe operation of the facility.

[kahlanne]

Yep!

 

 

That's funny!  I don't see anything wrong with it, provided the horse isn't spooked by cars.  

 

 

 

Why would there be a drive-through daiquiri shop in the first place?!  What the...?

 

Actually there are lots in Louisiana. Two are within 5 miles of my home.  They are not allowed to put a straw in your cup but can hand you one out the window.

 

Sorry to derail thread.