my Dh return from army to civilian job-vent

[lovinmyboys]

Dh got back a couple of months ago from a 15 month stint with the army. I posted about his having to do it last year. I was quite mad about it.

 

Anyway, he is back at his civilian job and I feel so bad for him. People that have been there less time than him have been promoted. There was a transfer to the city we want to move to that he couldn't apply for because he was at the army. Now, there is a position open that by seniority he should get, but he isn't getting because they say he lost 15 mos of seniority while he was gone (or more accurately those 15 months don't count).

 

It's just so frustrating. He made about 70% of his civilian wage at the army plus we had extra living expenses. Now, he is also losing promotions at his civilian job. Not to mention being away from his kids for 15 months-all to do paperwork in another state.

 

I know he is lucky to be alive and not disabled (Im sure lots of soldiers would love our problems). We knew last year would be hard financially, but we figured when he got back to his civilian job we would make up for it. So far it isn't working out that way.

 

And, while I am venting, I wish people would quit acting like he was just on some vacation for 15 months. It isn't like he wanted to go there. He had no choice.

[Barb_]

I'm sorry, vent away. That is sucky. I might consult with an attorney to see if what they are saying is even legal. I'm no expert but it sounds shady.

[StephanieZ]

Was he called up from the reserves? Or National Guard? If not, how did he have to go to the army job for 15 months?

 

Was the army assignment related to his regular civilian job?

[Xahm]

Check the law! Where we are, that business would be in violation, and I think that law is federal. There should be someone in your dh's unit that can help him figure out who to contact. My dh is actually one of those people in his unit. He's away for training right now or Id get him to tell me the right terminology for all this, but your dh should, at least in our state, receive promotions and increases in pay grade as though he never left.

[lovinmyboys]

He was called up from the army reserves.

 

He is going to check the law. Part of it is that he missed taking a test. So, he wants to take the test and then jump in the line where he would be if he hadn't been gone. But, right now, they are saying he can't do that. He has to stay in the line in the order of who took the test.

 

And other stuff too. There is a really annoying job that they rotate every month. So, the first 3 months that he is back they are making him do that since he missed his rotation.

 

The call up to the army just came at a really bad time for his career. And it irritates me because there were people in his unit that were unemployed and really would have liked to go. Only a few people from his unit had to go and he was one.

[Ravin]

https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/usao-ednc/legacy/2011/04/29/EmploymentRights.pdf

 

 

They should be reinstated with the seniority, status, and rate of pay they would have obtained had they remained continuously employed by their civilian employer. The law also protects individuals from discrimination in hiring, promotion, and retention on the basis of present and future membership in the armed services.

 

It sounds like your DH needs to take a copy of the law to HR at his employer ASAP, and if they won't listen, it might be time to talk to an employment law attorney.  

[Ravin]

Oh, before he starts talking about the law and brings an attorney into it, he should ask for a copy of the employer's written policies for how to handle returning veterans.

[wintermom]

That does sounds really frustrating. He should definitely seek legal advice. I would think a good employment lawyer could help out. He could probably try and solicit support from the reserves/government, though that might be MORE frustrating (because dealing with government is never easy). 

[plansrme]

USERRA requires that members of the armed forces be restored, with some exceptions that do not seem to apply here, to the same position they had before they left, with seniority for the period they were gone.  There also is a provision requiring the employer to offer training, etc. (this may apply to the test to which you referred) within a reasonable time after rehire.  Just google "USERRA."  His unit (or whatever it is called) probably has someone who can help, or he can call the local branch of the U.S. Department of Labor.  I would try both of these options before paying for an attorney.  Most employers who do not comply with USERRA just don't know their obligations; they're usually not trying to be jerks.  

[lovinmyboys]

Just to clarify-I don't think anyone is being a jerk. I just think it is hard for Dh to know where to push and what to let go. And the people he works with seem to think (again while not being jerks) that he was on some vacation while they were working. He didn't put in the same time they did so he shouldn't get to just come back like he didn't miss any time.

 

Part of the problem is the first five years in his job you are sort of in training. He was called up after 4.5 years so he did miss some stuff (mostly the test). I'm probably not explaining it well.@

[Anne in CA]

I just wanted to thank your dh for his service and commiserate with you. This sounds so unfair.

[Guest]

My brother had something similar happen. He was told that his job had to hold a job for him while he was gone. When he came home, he was told that yes, they had to hold A job, but not necessarily the one he had when he left. They tried putting him into a lower paying and crappy position, knowing that he wouldn't stick around. Joke was on them...he applied at the railroad and ended up starting at almost twice the pay there. 

[Tsuga]

There are no laws that can possibly account for the fact that 98% of the United States has NO IDEA what it is like for the 1 - 2% that serve this country and keep us the nation we are today. People don't get it because they don't serve. I myself did not serve, though at least I was in the Peace Corps, but still, I did not get it until my (now ex) husband went in.

 

It is appalling. However many accolades our soldiers and reservist soldiers get, the fact is, they are the 1% that deserve the honors and they don't get it. They have to ask for these rights, as if it was a "benefit" and not an earned, deserved honor that most of us could never hope to be worthy of.

 

It drives me nuts as well. They don't even get FULL college tuition with honorable discharge--the default is less than that. To my mind, all that should be a foregone conclusion when we are talking about the 1 - 2 % who are doing the work for the other 98% of us!

 

So, I share your frustration. They don't need to be jerks to be wrong. There is a serious, serious problem with lack of shared sacrifice in this country.  :grouphug:

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:

[StephanieZ]

It really sounds to me like your dh is getting mistreated. I think consulting a legal advisor, hopefully available through the army, would be helpful. Dh needs to understand what *should* happen at his civilian job. Then dh can help his employer understand. Since you say they aren't jerks, once they understand the law, hopefully they will go to a larger effort to make things right for your dh.

 

And, BTW, thank you and your family for your sacrifices. 

[StephanieZ]

There are no laws that can possibly account for the fact that 98% of the United States has NO IDEA what it is like for the 1 - 2% that serve this country and keep us the nation we are today. People don't get it because they don't serve. I myself did not serve, though at least I was in the Peace Corps, but still, I did not get it until my (now ex) husband went in.

 

It is appalling. However many accolades our soldiers and reservist soldiers get, the fact is, they are the 1% that deserve the honors and they don't get it. They have to ask for these rights, as if it was a "benefit" and not an earned, deserved honor that most of us could never hope to be worthy of.

 

It drives me nuts as well. They don't even get FULL college tuition with honorable discharge--the default is less than that. To my mind, all that should be a foregone conclusion when we are talking about the 1 - 2 % who are doing the work for the other 98% of us!

 

So, I share your frustration. They don't need to be jerks to be wrong. There is a serious, serious problem with lack of shared sacrifice in this country.  :grouphug:

 

I agree it is wrong, but I disagree with the notion that a lack of shared sacrifice is the problem. The problem is that we don't adequately compensate and otherwise take care of our military personnel and families. Increase compensation and family care. Decrease the routine use of reserves and national guard, restoring their roles to their more traditional roles instead of as routine supplemental troops. Make the compensation good enough that being in the military is a good economic option. 

 

 

And, lastly, respect the sacrifices our military make by not using them wantonly in military actions of questionable importance. 

[Tsuga]

I agree it is wrong, but I disagree with the notion that a lack of shared sacrifice is the problem. The problem is that we don't adequately compensate and otherwise take care of our military personnel and families. Increase compensation and family care. 

 

I think we are looking at this from two angles.

 

My angle is, the cause of the failure to adequately compensate and provide is due to lack of shared sacrifice. You are looking at it from the angle of, regardless of whether you serve, you need to support adequate compensation etc.

 

I agree with you, but I think it would be easier to get people to realize how important this is if more of us had to serve and sacrifice.

[StephanieZ]

I think we are looking at this from two angles.

 

My angle is, the cause of the failure to adequately compensate and provide is due to lack of shared sacrifice. You are looking at it from the angle of, regardless of whether you serve, you need to support adequate compensation etc.

 

I agree with you, but I think it would be easier to get people to realize how important this is if more of us had to serve and sacrifice.

 

I hear you, but I just think that an individual's physical liberty to control their destiny is so sacred and important that it should not be compromised unwillingly unless absolutely imperative. To me, I hear the hint of mandatory military service . . . and, to me, that'd mean I'd be packing up my brood and moving overseas. I'm very happy to pay whatever taxes are needed to fairly and generously support an all volunteer military, but I would never, ever support mandatory service (not even the kind where you have a PeaceCorps or AmeriCorps nonviolent option) unless it was truly impossible to provide adequately via an all volunteer military. 

 

I'd never personally choose to enlist or allow/encourage my children to do so. I'm just way too anti-violence and anti-war and afraid. My mental health would go right into the toilet if anyone close to me were in a war zone. Same goes for if they were there volunteering as some peacenik or health worker. I just don't handle danger well. 

 

 

Besides which, a 2 year (or whatever) mandatory service at age 18-21 (or similar) would not change the fact that any non-career military folks won't really share the pain of career military members. A couple year stint as a young person would become more like another stage of education and/or a religious mission, or whatever, and whether they were compensated properly or their families got good support would be inconsequential compared to the vital importance of compensation and support for career military members/families. 

[Tsuga]

I am not arguing for mandatory military service, but a more service-oriented attitude among the entire population.

 

I am sorry if that was not clear. I am not trying to make a point about mandatory service here, so I will not reply to your other points.

 

I simply meant, our society is  not sharing this sacrifice. OP is suffering. There could be many ways to remedy that, but the point is, I am sorry she has to suffer for so many of us.

[StephanieZ]

I am not arguing for mandatory military service, but a more service-oriented attitude among the entire population.

 

I am sorry if that was not clear. I am not trying to make a point about mandatory service here, so I will not reply to your other points.

 

I simply meant, our society is  not sharing this sacrifice. OP is suffering. There could be many ways to remedy that, but the point is, I am sorry she has to suffer for so many of us.

 

Thanks, that makes sense. I'm sorry I misunderstood.

 

If our military members were treated much better, then I'd imagine that a wider swath of American families would have military members. I live in WV, one of the states with a high portion of volunteer military members . . . I see young men (and women) enlisting out of high school because that is the only way they see to get funding for higher education  .  . . I've seen it work for that, which is of course good. But, this pressure to enlist is heavy on poor families, whereas well off families don't have that pressure . . . 

 

If enlisting were more lucrative and military members could count on good benefits for their families, a strong career track that could prepare them for a good career after their 20+ years of service . . . (or even a decent career after 10 years . . .) then I'd imagine more upper middle class families would consider the military a good option. Essentially, I think it boils down to treating our military members and families so well that 1) they are fairly compensated for their risks and sacrifices and 2) more people want "in" and it could become more competitive to even get in . . . Seems to me that'd make a stronger military and surely would be more fair to those who bear the sacrifices that protect the rest of us.

[Liz CA]

Oh, before he starts talking about the law and brings an attorney into it, he should ask for a copy of the employer's written policies for how to handle returning veterans.

 

Yes, yes! I am not an attorney like Ravin but I always thought that no employee can be disadvantaged by being called up to the reserves!

I know it may feel weird to call them on the carpet but HR Director should be made aware the they are in violation of employment law.

 

[craftymama]

He was called up from the army reserves.

 

He is going to check the law. Part of it is that he missed taking a test. So, he wants to take the test and then jump in the line where he would be if he hadn't been gone. But, right now, they are saying he can't do that. He has to stay in the line in the order of who took the test.

 

And other stuff too. There is a really annoying job that they rotate every month. So, the first 3 months that he is back they are making him do that since he missed his rotation.

 

The call up to the army just came at a really bad time for his career. And it irritates me because there were people in his unit that were unemployed and really would have liked to go. Only a few people from his unit had to go and he was one.

 

Wait, for promotion purposes his time doesn't count, but for crappy duties he has to make up for not being there?  That screams double standard to me.  

[mamiof5]

He was called up from the army reserves.

 

He is going to check the law. Part of it is that he missed taking a test. So, he wants to take the test and then jump in the line where he would be if he hadn't been gone. But, right now, they are saying he can't do that. He has to stay in the line in the order of who took the test.

 

And other stuff too. There is a really annoying job that they rotate every month. So, the first 3 months that he is back they are making him do that since he missed his rotation.

 

The call up to the army just came at a really bad time for his career. And it irritates me because there were people in his unit that were unemployed and really would have liked to go. Only a few people from his unit had to go and he was one.

So...they are saying he lost 15 months of seniority because he wasn't there, but has to "make up" for the rotations he missed in the sucky job? That's not right! I'd consult an attorney ASAP. Sorry you are dealing with this :(

[Lanny]

Well, some people might reply that he volunteered to be in the military, and that is true. I was a "Weekend Warrior"  and there are Federal laws that are supposed to protect one's civilian job, but I believe many employers do not comply with those rules.  I remember seeing a story, several years ago, about a Female Meteorologist who was also an Air Force Reserve Officer. I believe she filed a Discrimination or other case, against The Weather Channel, or another channel involved with reporting the weather on U.S. TV. or a Weather network.   If someone is gone for 2 weeks for Active Duty Training during the Summer, the employer probably has little or no problem with that, but someone who is Activated as your DH was, and is gone for a long time, is probably more or less forgotten by the people he works with, his Supervisor and his Manager. And then, he comes back and he is out of the loop.  It depends upon what type of work your DH does on his Civilian job.  He could possibly file some kind of lawsuit, but that would not go over well with his civilian employer and might get him "black balled" out of the industry he works in. Possibly a better idea would be for him to consider being in the Regular Army, or some status where he in the Army Reserve, but Activated.  He should discuss this with the Legal Affairs Officer in his unit.   Thanks to your     DH and  to your family, for your sacrifice!  

[lovinmyboys]

It is tricky being a reservist and having a civilian career. Dh has been in the reserves for 16 years and has been mobilized for 5 years. They are saying now that reservists should expect to spend about 1 in every 3-4 years on active duty and so his service falls within that guideline. But, it is a lot of time to miss from his civilian job and I do think it affects his career track. Yes, he signed up to do it. He talked to his supervisors in the army about being able to leave before his contract is up, but it can't happen. He has no desire to leave his civilian job.

 

It has been a long time since his annual training has only been two weeks. 3-4 is more accurate. Plus, he has had 43 working days this year and has had to miss 4 for army. I can see why people in his civilian job get frustrated with it. But, when the army tells you you have to be there, you have to be there.

 

I think he will be able to work it out. Most of the stuff is just in his department. It isn't like there is a company wide policy on who does the annoying job. He just got back to work and they said he had to do three months of it since he missed while he was gone. I think where he works will follow the law. He just has to figure out what parts he can and should fight and what parts he just needs to deal with.

[Xahm]

It sounds like he could just talk to the right person in his civilian job and make them aware of the laws about promotion and things will be fine.

It is funny to me whenever I hear the "two weeks in summer and a weekend a month" thing. My dh is in the NG and I estimate he's gone a good 2.5 months each year, broken up here and there, and he hasn't been deployed since leaving Active Duty. Thankfully his employer is good bout sucking it up.