"Why The Calorie is Broken" or Why Calories In - Calories Out Isn't As Simple As Some of You Think

[SparklyUnicorn]

Do you think that it depends on what people experience as hunger (forgive me, I just came back from a philosophy lecture on the nature of stuff and experience)?  Is hunger only a gnawing in your stomach?  Or it is a feeling of anxiety or desperation that can be satisfied by either food or exercise, which might have similar chemical effects in the brain?  When people say they are hungry, what do they mean?  Because I call both the stomach feeling and the anxiety feeling hunger.

 

Well for me I feel like I'm going to pass out if I don't eat.  I feel weak.  It's not just oh I'm bored I'd like to gnaw on something.

This happens especially if I eat too many carbs.  The sorts of things people are told are healthy.  Rice, fruits, whole grain bread, etc.  I can't eat that stuff.

[Katy]

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Edited July 22, 2016 by Katy

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm not sure why it has to be just malnutrition.  That's one assumption, but it's just as plausible that bacteria in the gut cause the hunger, especially if the study I posted holds true.

 

 

There is some speculation that anxiety and depression are linked to gut bacteria. 

 

Oh well that's interesting. I'm the poster child of anxiety and depression.  LOL

[Bluegoat]

 

 

There is some speculation that anxiety and depression are linked to gut bacteria.  The woman who wrote the GAPS diet (Gut And Psychology Syndrome, I think) thinks that almost all exploding psychological, neurological & psychological disorders are linked to gut bacteria.  She thinks that's what caused her son's autism.  We're supposed to get a certain amount of probiotics from vaginal birth and breast feeding and eating foods grown in organic dirt.  But with antibiotics, processed foods, cesarean sections, sterile bottles, and formula, toss in a few early ear infections and you have a huge risk for problems in the gut.  Obviously there are multiple kinds of autism, but she says that for at least some kids, eating traditional diets with plenty of fats, bone broth, vegetable fiber, and fermented vegetables can make them better, or at least less symptomatic.  She claims she's also had good results with people with all sorts of mental health issues, even debilitating migraines.   I tried it for cluster headaches.  I couldn't handle the fat and onions without debilitating GI issues, but I've considered trying it again.

 

Pretty much if someone says that all those things are linked to gut bacteria, I think they are full of it. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I know one person who lost the weight, combo of exercise and calorie control plus low carb, and no longer was diabetic. Everyone else I know thinks the metformin counteracts their intake choice and despite being sedentary, consume more than my teens do in season with cross country.

 

Yes when my mother had cancer she lost a lot of weight and she ate low carb (I encouraged her to).  She was able to go off the diabetes meds.  She only had to increase the meds when she followed the dietary advice of a diabetic doctor and dietitian.  The big push for a long time wasn't low carb but low fat.  Fat has not a damn thing to do with it.  So she'd make (per instructions) sandwiches on white bread with fat free mayo.  White bread is only one slight step up from pound cake.

 

This is what I don't get though.  They do not give advice that works.  My sister is told she can eat whatever as long as it is moderate.  First of all what exactly is moderate?  She is in the hospital once a month because of out of control blood sugar issues.  She is not overweight either. 

[Katy]

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Edited July 22, 2016 by Katy

[Katy]

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Edited July 22, 2016 by Katy

[purplejackmama]

Absolutely. I don't care for the holier than thou attitude or "it's simple people just eat too much" because it's really not simple. For one thing, a person cannot stop eating. So if a person has any sort of issue with food they have to face their issue every day and deal with it every day. There is no out of sight out of mind.

 

Not to mention the freaking food fads over the years. We went from eating regular foods for the most part to fat free everything, for example. I had friends in college who were convinced that eating fat free anything would mean a person could not gain weight. Yeah sure. So they bought fat free cheese and cookies. Yuck. Of course that did not work.

 

I know people say stuff like just eat less. Well what does one do if they feel hungry constantly? Who wants to feel hungry constantly? Hunger means something even if there is no actual need for food. Why would a person feel hungry all the time? KWIM? Must be some reason why that's messed up. But no it often is said to boil down to some failing of one's self control, personality, worth as a person, etc. I don't agree.

AMEN.

[SparklyUnicorn]

FTR, part of the problem is that one thing doesn't work for everyone.  I went on a ketogenic diet for 6 weeks without cheating and my numbers skyrocketed.  I cheated at had a huge bowl of rice and vegetables and soy sauce and my numbers went down a hundred points in 7 hours overnight.  I went on a low fat diet and now I can eat some carbs again and still keep my numbers 100 points lower than before. I wish they'd stop giving blanket directions, send people home with 1000 strips and a meter, and tell them to figure it out themselves.

 

Ok that's fair.  I can see that.

[creekland]

This has been a very interesting thread to read.  I'll admit I wish I could send my lack of hunger to all those wanting to lose weight.  It really does make things FAR easier when one never gets the "must eat" signals from the brain.

 

However, it's just another side effect from radiation that's hanging on far longer than it should have (similar to the ear issues) so anyone else trying to benefit from it isn't likely to even if they followed the same protocol.  This issue, at least, is in the pro column!

 

When one isn't being prodded by the brain to eat, making more sensible choices - and better choices - is easy.

 

I will note it's far easier for me to gain weight with carb food choices than non-carb varieties - even without the hunger bit.  I always gain on trips and when family comes home.  It's just a nice bonus to pull that back off effortlessly.

 

I fully believe the diet that's right for Person A could easily be wrong for Person B.  I doubt there's a one size fits all solution.

[Bluegoat]

Well, I did too, the first time I heard about it.  Then over the course of the next several months a couple people we know IRL and 3 bloggers I follow tried the diet and had improvements in several kinds of psychological and immunity issues.

 

Honestly, I would never ever consider that kind of anecdotal evidence for dietary questions - to a much greater degree than with drugs and procedures, personal evidence is unreliable with diet. 

 

Changes in diet are something that almost always involve the placebo effect, or the nocebo effect, and involve other changes and relationships that make people feel differently.  Psychological and immunity issues are also easy things to be affected psychosomatically.

[Roadrunner]

I know one person who lost the weight, combo of exercise and calorie control plus low carb, and no longer was diabetic. Everyone else I know thinks the metformin counteracts their intake choice and despite being sedentary, consume more than my teens do in season with cross country.

Once a diabetic, always a diabetic. Your friend is still a diabetic, but she is controlling it with food. Trust me, if she starts eating pasta and soda, her numbers with skyrocket. No longer diabetic means your body's beta cell function is normal and you can eat what you want. Just because she is showing non diabetic lab results doesn't make her diabetes go away. Some people can control with food like your friend, others will still need meds even with proper diet.

[DawnM]

I'm not sure why it has to be just malnutrition.  That's one assumption, but it's just as plausible that bacteria in the gut cause the hunger, especially if the study I posted holds true.

 

 

There is some speculation that anxiety and depression are linked to gut bacteria.  The woman who wrote the GAPS diet (Gut And Psychology Syndrome, I think) thinks that almost all exploding psychological, neurological & psychological disorders are linked to gut bacteria.  She thinks that's what caused her son's autism.  We're supposed to get a certain amount of probiotics from vaginal birth and breast feeding and eating foods grown in organic dirt.  But with antibiotics, processed foods, cesarean sections, sterile bottles, and formula, toss in a few early ear infections and you have a huge risk for problems in the gut.  Obviously there are multiple kinds of autism, but she says that for at least some kids, eating traditional diets with plenty of fats, bone broth, vegetable fiber, and fermented vegetables can make them better, or at least less symptomatic.  She claims she's also had good results with people with all sorts of mental health issues, even debilitating migraines.   I tried it for cluster headaches.  I couldn't handle the fat and onions without debilitating GI issues, but I've considered trying it again.

 

 

I have no doubt that any diet that eliminates sugar and processed foods will elevate moods and be better for your overall health and gut.  But autism CAUSED by gut bacteria?  That is just bad science.

 

Very ironic that the gut diet caused you to have gut issues.....I wouldn't try it again.....I would eliminate anything that causes gut issues.

[Guest]

I have no doubt that any diet that eliminates sugar and processed foods will elevate moods and be better for your overall health and gut. But autism CAUSED by gut bacteria? That is just bad science.

 

Very ironic that the gut diet caused you to have gut issues.....I wouldn't try it again.....I would eliminate anything that causes gut issues.

I have a dear friend who has a severely autistic child and two mildly autistic children. She would tell you the GAPs diet helps the symptoms of autism very much, not that gut dysbiosis causes the problem but exacerbates it. Her child becomes extremely violent and non-verbal when off treatment, and the calm and control her milder autistic kiddos have is notably different even to an outsider. Protocols to manage SIBO, Candida, and yes, c-Diff have all been at the root of what has helped, along with strict GAPs.

 

The problem is genetic on her husband's side, but the solutions have been mostly food based. Lots of prescriptions in there too but many seem to have done more harm than good or keeping the dosages right has been tricky.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[FaithManor]

This has been a very interesting thread to read.  I'll admit I wish I could send my lack of hunger to all those wanting to lose weight.  It really does make things FAR easier when one never gets the "must eat" signals from the brain.

 

However, it's just another side effect from radiation that's hanging on far longer than it should have (similar to the ear issues) so anyone else trying to benefit from it isn't likely to even if they followed the same protocol.  This issue, at least, is in the pro column!

 

When one isn't being prodded by the brain to eat, making more sensible choices - and better choices - is easy.

 

I will note it's far easier for me to gain weight with carb food choices than non-carb varieties - even without the hunger bit.  I always gain on trips and when family comes home.  It's just a nice bonus to pull that back off effortlessly.

 

I fully believe the diet that's right for Person A could easily be wrong for Person B.  I doubt there's a one size fits all solution.

Yup!

 

I don't actually feel hunger anymore. To be honest, it would be very, very easy to become severely malnourished. I suspect that the stress of dealing with my parents has caused this, but I don't know. Maybe it will never come back. Essentially, I have to remind myself to eat.

 

Thankfully nothing carby tastes good anymore. I usually only sort of kind of want something high in iron coupled with veggies, and occasionally, just occasionally, rice. Fruit tastes nasty to me anymore. I just can't handle anything sweet.

 

People are just so very, very different.

[creekland]

Honestly, I would never ever consider that kind of anecdotal evidence for dietary questions - to a much greater degree than with drugs and procedures, personal evidence is unreliable with diet. 

 

Changes in diet are something that almost always involve the placebo effect, or the nocebo effect, and involve other changes and relationships that make people feel differently.  Psychological and immunity issues are also easy things to be affected psychosomatically.

 

The older I am, the less bothered I get by something being fixed via the placebo effect.  Whatever works... 

[creekland]

Yup!

 

I don't actually feel hunger anymore. To be honest, it would be very, very easy to become severely malnourished. I suspect that the stress of dealing with my parents has caused this, but I don't know. Maybe it will never come back. Essentially, I have to remind myself to eat.

 

Thankfully nothing carby tastes good anymore. I usually only sort of kind of want something high in iron coupled with veggies, and occasionally, just occasionally, rice. Fruit tastes nasty to me anymore. I just can't handle anything sweet.

 

People are just so very, very different.

 

Hubby reminds me to eat.  I've had to tell him to do so though.  He will be polite and wait for long periods of time sometimes before saying anything.  A couple of nights ago I heard his stomach rumbling and got clued it.  I think we ate around 9pm that night.

 

I don't care for the taste of oodles of sweet things (fruit is fine).  I've been that way since my youth though, so it's not new.  It's definitely another benefit.

[ktgrok]

Pretty much if someone says that all those things are linked to gut bacteria, I think they are full of it. 

 

Just one article of many. From Scientific American, not some hippie granola journal. Our bodies have more bacterial cells than human cells in them. It makes sense that those bacteria would influence us in many ways. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/mental-health-may-depend-on-creatures-in-the-gut/

[Joyofsixreboot]

Which begs the question...do you really want to only give the gut one kind of probiotic? Does each person have their own personal mix to maintain? Would solving one problem create another? Just pondering and really glad I let my kids be grubby.

 

Here's a nice round up of some of the tedious studies I've been reading about the role of fiber

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fiber-famished-gut-microbes-linked-to-poor-health1/

Edited January 28, 2016 by joyofsix

[Guest]

Which begs the question...do you really want to only give the gut one kind of probiotic? Does each person have their own personal mix to maintain? Would solving one problem create another? Just pondering and really glad I let my kids be grubby.

 

Here's a nice round up of some of the tedious studies I've been reading about the role of fiber

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fiber-famished-gut-microbes-linked-to-poor-health1/

 

Individuals, yes. But communities, also! Think about living in a village, fermenting certain foods and eating other things from the same soil as everyone you know.

[Upennmama]

Well for me I feel like I'm going to pass out if I don't eat.  I feel weak.  It's not just oh I'm bored I'd like to gnaw on something.

This happens especially if I eat too many carbs.  The sorts of things people are told are healthy.  Rice, fruits, whole grain bread, etc.  I can't eat that stuff.

This used to happen to me. It was pretty bad. I eventually figured out it would go away with regular diet and eating less. Lower carb and higher protein and fat got rid of it, for the most part. 

[Upennmama]

 

 

I'm not sure why it has to be just malnutrition.  That's one assumption, but it's just as plausible that bacteria in the gut cause the hunger, especially if the study I posted holds true.

Yeah, hunger is a sensation sent by hormones, to tell you to eat. You can train yourself (OF COURSE YMMV). I used to overeat a ton, and when I went on a diet and started eating 1500 cal/day, I felt ravenous. Not just emotionally, but physical hunger, stomach growling, shaky, irritable. After a few months of sticking with eating less, I trained my body to expect/demand less and I stopped feeling as hungry. This is not true for everyone, of course, but our hormones and bodies are not inert. They can change and adapt. 

[Tsuga]

My husband is thin and healthy. So, I can give him the go ahead on that weird scat porn then? :drool5:

I was feeling out of my league on the "omg leggings aren't real pants dahhhhhhling" thread but then I remembered there are people like you here with me, LOL. Go for it.

 

I would be a great candidate for this, actually. Lifelong thin with excellent guy health.

[Joyofsixreboot]

I was feeling out of my league on the "omg leggings aren't real pants dahhhhhhling" thread but then I remembered there are people like you here with me, LOL. Go for it.

 

I would be a great candidate for this, actually. Lifelong thin with excellent guy health.

For the record I am currently wearing leggings and they are not affecting my gut biome🤓

[SproutMamaK]

Can I just use this thread to rant about my brother's nutritionist? He's just been diagnosed with diabetes, though he's probably had it for a good decade and just refused to control. His doctor put him on meds right away (he didn't know WHICH meds off-hand, just "meds").. and his nutritionist told him to cut out sugar. Well, yeah, definitely cut ou sugar, but she told him to replace those snacks with things like sandwiches, and to make sure to add in more fruit to his diet.

SANDWICHES AND FRUIT?!

My brother is a food addict (as am I, though I've gotten it under control in the past year), so he's replace cookies with toast and jam, tons of oranges and bananas, etc, and is getting annoyed that he's following the advice perfectly, eating a "healthy" diet, and its not putting a dent in his numbers. ARG. I've tried talking to him about it, but even trying to follow the guidelines of "60g of carbs or less at a major meal" is overwhelming to him given his existing diet and general food history. Trying to do less than 50 a day is, I suspect, insurmountable to him, so he writes it off as his baby sister's uninformed (and crazy) opinion.

This bad nutritional advice is literally killing him and it is so frustrating. :(

Edited January 29, 2016 by SproutMamaK

[Guest]

Wow, I eat 60 carbs in a full day on a treat day and my a1c is 4.6. That's horrible advice on their part and yet so common :(

[Guest]

If he is amenable, Dr. Eenfeldt has a really short primer that is excellent for diabetes treatment.

http://www.dietdoctor.com/diabetes

 

Longer and more thorough books would be from experts like Dr. Bernstein:

http://www.diabetes-book.com

Edited January 28, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[kitten18]

Can I just use this thread to rant about my brother's nutritionist? He's just been diagnosed with diabetes, though he's probably had it for a good decade and just refused to control. His doctor put him on meds right away (he didn't know WHICH meds off-hand, just "meds").. and his nutritionist told him to cut out sugar. Well, yeah, definitely cut ou sugar, but she told him to replace those snacks with things like sandwiches, and to make sure to add in more fruit to his diet.

 

SANDWICHES AND FRUIT?!

 

My brother is a food addict (as am I, though I've gotten it under control in the past year), so he's replace cookies with toast and jam, tons of oranges and bananas, etc, and is getting annoyed that he's following the advice perfectly, eating a "healthy" diet, and its not putting a dent in his numbers. ARG. I've tried talking to him about it, but even trying to follow the guidelines of "60g of carbs or less at a major meal" is overwhelming to him given his existing diet and general food history. Trying to do less than 50 a day is, I suspect, unsirmountable to him, so he writes it off as his baby sister's uninformed (and crazy) opinion.

 

This bad nutritional advice is literally killing him and it is so frustrating. :(

I'm sorry, it is so sad.

I saw the exact same thing with my grandma, dad, and oldest brother (21 years older than me).

[Roadrunner]

The advice given by American Diabetes Association is criminal. I don't understand why they continue to recommend such high quantities of carbs knowing full well carbs break down into sugar.

[Katy]

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Edited July 22, 2016 by Katy

[Roadrunner]

 

Reasons I've heard:

• It does work for some people
• Diabetes causes heart disease and heart disease will kill you faster than diabetes so you should prevent that first
• Even if low-carb diets are more effective, they are impossibly difficult to stick to and most patients won't, so you might as well slow their decline rather than give them something impossible that they'll give up on
• When they go on insulin they'll need to eat carbs or they'll die. Dr Bernstein has an excellent rant about the idiocy of that.

Diabetes causes heart and kidney disease because elevated sugar levels. If you keep your sugar level normal, which you won't if you eat ADA recommended diet, you won't get complications. Agree that Bernstein is great reading. Same with insulin. There might just be a chance of not being on insulin if you can keep your sugar normal with carb free diet, which again you won't on ADA recs. I feel like it's a vast farma policy to keep people on perpetual drugs. They don't know who will manage or not manage the diet, but at least tell people the truth instead of pretending that apples could be beneficial for diabetics. Edited January 29, 2016 by Roadrunner

[purplejackmama]

I have never in my life met a doctor with that kind of nutrition knowledge. There are many diabetics in my family. NONE of them ever controlled their diabetes by following the advice of any dietitian. Stuff they tell my sister is so incredibly ridiculous I don't even want to hear the details anymore.

 

I've been eating lower carb for years. So far so good. But I definitely could stand to lose some weight.

Oh my gosh, yes!! My mom has to meet with a diabetic nutritionist per her insurance company. To reward my mom for showing up, the crazy lady gives my insulin dependent, diabetic mother CANDY BARS. Not even kidding.

[Joyofsixreboot]

Some things to add as an RD. Dietitians are repeating back what they have been taught. They are also responsible to document "best practices" which are determined by the government and the hospital will be judged by whether they are implemented. I don't agree with it and don't work formally in the field anymore (though I keep my credentials) because it was crazy making. Add to that the incredibly slow way medical care changes happen, the money involved, etc and you'll pull your hair out. I have good, morbidly obese friends who went to see hospital dietitians and got a plan I thought stunk. Cheerios and milk for bedtime snack? I know why it was done though because I got that same info when I was in school....30 years ago!

[creekland]

Two more thoughts this morning...

 

1)  I'm glad I'm naturally resistant to using any meds.  Some mentioned have been suggested in my more recent past and it's a bit worrisome to think - or just not know - what I'd be doing to my body vs just figuring things out and getting things under control via diet which has worked for me, but I get that extra bonus of not being hungry.  (That actually has led to some wonders if losing weight is too easy for me, but that's a totally different deal.)

 

This leads to:

 

2)  My mind is spinning with the thoughts that typical "best diet" info given to us by professionals might not really be the best diet for many, yet, it's rare to hear that info.

 

I guess it all leads to my thoughts from before... who cares if it's the placebo effect at work.  At least something is working.  I'd be quite pleased to find something giving me the placebo effect for the other issues I'm dealing with!

[Joules]

It's not about weight loss, but I've read some interesting ideas about probiotics and histamine/inflammation. Early research suggests that some bacteria produce histamine and some degrade histamine, which would be important for people with allergies or inflammatory disease.  

 

These are just the first couple of links that showed up in my google search:

http://www.optibacprobiotics.co.uk/faq/which-probiotic-for-histamine-intolerance

http://thelowhistaminechef.com/these-probiotic-strains-lower-histamine-rather-than-raising-it/

[Guest]

Check out the ADA Facebook page. I'm convinced the person running it disagrees with their advice because they leave some really scary in comments up.

[Katy]

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Edited July 22, 2016 by Katy

[ktgrok]

The second one says Lactobacillus rhamnosus is one of the ones that degrades histamine, and that's also the one in Culturelle.

 

I started Culturelle yesterday.  It was cheaper at Walmart than on Amazon, at least locally.  I woke up with horrible cramps this morning.  I thought it was my period, but it ended up just being gas.  So something must be changing already.

 

Oooh, good to know. I'll check walmart next time. Mine came from amazon yesterday. 

 

Oh, and realized in full disclosure the reason I trust culturelle brand is that when I attended lectures at the North American Veterinary Conference it was the brand advised by the holistic veterinarians, lol. 

[Katy]

nm

Edited July 22, 2016 by Katy

[ktgrok]

I spent almost 90 minutes yesterday googling different probiotic studies and decided it's the one I should try first anyway.  I googled every health issue I've had and it is the type that is most effective for most of them.  All of these issues, including the wheat allergy, started after taking an antibiotic I was allergic to.

 

I don't believe in adding too many supplements at once, but eventually I will also try:

• Jarrow Formulas Fem-Dophilus - another strain of lactobacillus rhamnosis and a strain of lactobacillus reuteri, the second of which is also highly researched to correct side effects of antibiotics.  And it's possible this strain might reduce unexplained miscarriage, which would be an answer to my prayers.
• Cardioviva - it improves the ratio of LDL to HDL cholesterol, and lowers cholesterol and triglycerides in some people; my cholesterol level is fine but my ratio of good to bad isn't. 

Several brands have these same strains, they were just the cheapest reputable brands with the strains that I saw on Amazon yesterday.  Though I might trek into Whole Foods for the Jarrow.  Apparently many stores refrigerate that one, but Amazon doesn't.

 

I won't lie, I remembered we had a Jarrow formula one in the fridge, not sure which one, but it has a blend. But the bottle is pretty old. I took that too, lol. Figured extra might not hurt. But yes, I think I'll do Culturelle to start, then maybe when I'm colonized switch to one put out by the company that makes my bariatric vitamins, that has a blend, including some good for oral health. I have crap teeth so that would be good. 

[Katy]

Yeah, the Jarrow formula one was mentioned repeatedly with dental problems.  And dental inflammation is related to miscarriage, so maybe that's the connection. 

[creekland]

The second one says Lactobacillus rhamnosus is one of the ones that degrades histamine, and that's also the one in Culturelle.

 

I started Culturelle yesterday.  It was cheaper at Walmart than on Amazon, at least locally.  I woke up with horrible cramps this morning.  I thought it was my period, but it ended up just being gas.  So something must be changing already.

 

Sort of marking this to come back and read later.  I'm at school now, so can't give it my full attention, but it sounds worthy of reading on a day where my health issues are making me super cranky, therefore, I'm willing to try pretty much anything that might potentially work.  Snake oil would even be tempting.

 

Where in Walmart do you find this?  What am I looking for?  Have car, can travel - after school anyway.

[Katy]

nm

Edited July 22, 2016 by Katy

[OnMyOwn]

The second one says Lactobacillus rhamnosus is one of the ones that degrades histamine, and that's also the one in Culturelle.

 

I started Culturelle yesterday. It was cheaper at Walmart than on Amazon, at least locally. I woke up with horrible cramps this morning. I thought it was my period, but it ended up just being gas. So something must be changing already.

So, are you saying culturelle wouldn't be the best choice for someone with allergies? Not sure if degrading histamine is a positive or a nagative?

[Joules]

 

• Jarrow Formulas Fem-Dophilus - another strain of lactobacillus rhamnosis and a strain of lactobacillus reuteri, the second of which is also highly researched to correct side effects of antibiotics.  And it's possible this strain might reduce unexplained miscarriage, which would be an answer to my prayers.

 Though I might trek into Whole Foods for the Jarrow.  Apparently many stores refrigerate that one, but Amazon doesn't.

 

This is the one that I use when on antibiotics, and I've just started taking it full-time to see if it makes a difference in the inflammatory disease.

 

Though some survives at room temperature, I've been told that it is most powerful if kept refrigerated.

[Joules]

So, are you saying culturelle wouldn't be the best choice for someone with allergies? Not sure if degrading histamine is a positive or a nagative?

 

Degrading (or breaking down) histamine is good for allergic people.  We react to the histamine so less is better.

 

ETA: Histamine is an important part of the immune system and not all bad.  It has a function.  It just causes a problem in overabundance or with sensitive people.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Joules

[Katy]

nm

Edited July 22, 2016 by Katy

[creekland]

So if one does not suspect allergies, then degrading histamine is not a good idea?

 

I sense a ton I need to read about later today.

[Katy]

nm

Edited July 22, 2016 by Katy

[creekland]

Less histamine is good for everyone, it relieves inflammation.

 

ETA:  Okay, apparently those with schizophrenia have low histamine, but their problem is a copper/zinc imbalance (too much copper, not enough zinc, and possibly manganese, not a probiotic thing.

 

My under-educated (body-wise) mind pauses at this and feels the body must be using it for something good or it wouldn't be there.  I could see those with allergies producing too much (disorder in the body), but everyone?

 

That's when one wonders if the gut bacteria is off from where it should be and a good number of us should have more.

 

We need to get the original blueprints for our bodies...

 

But I suspect it's worth a try for me to see if it helps - esp if I'm considering meds that would do the same thing.  My best guess is inflammation is an issue when things are bad - still working on figuring out the common denominator as to why though.  I remain doubtful about both allergies and stress - esp the latter - because of days like today, but who knows?

 

Trying adjustments seems worthwhile over just whining.