Derek Owens math, the good, the bad? Help me decide

[Hilltopmom]

I think I've found most of the past DO posts on here & they all sound promising.

 

My ds hasn't done any online classes before. I know DO is recorded videos, then you send the work to him to grade. Sounds like turn around time is good & if you're really stuck, you can email him. (I can't help at the Alg 2, pre calc, calc level which is what we need). We may also hire a local tutor, if need be.

 

Not sure if this will be the best format for ds, but I want to try it, I think. He used MUS in the past & would get annoyed if he didn't "get it" from the video, since there was no other input & I'd have to figure it out & explain it to him. TT he liked the explanation for each problem you got wrong, but it's time to move on from TT. I got him through Alg & Geometry but have a baby & toddler & other kids & am maxed out on math.

 

Did you find DO explained all the concepts clearly enough?

Could your kids do the class independently? (Bright but high Average kids, not super gifted kids)

 

Anyone NOT like DO math? Why?

Any other experiences anyone wants to share?

 

I'm looking at DO instead of a live class option because 1. We are starting Alg 2 mid year & 2. Need asynchronous since I have no idea what ds's DE at CC schedule will be in the fall.

 

Otherwise, I'd be looking at WHA. He may be able to sync up with the WHA schedule in the future, but not yet.

I had tentative plans to have him DE math, but after talking to a few moms this week who's kids did last year, I'm now thinking not.

 

Cost is a factor for us, but he needs solid math skills, so I'm willing to pay for a good class.

 

Thanks!

Edited January 7, 2016 by Hilltopmom

[Hilltopmom]

Oh, I thought of 2 other big questions:

1. We have DSL, will loading all the videos be an issue? I read someone's review saying each part downloaded separately & was a problem with slower internet.

2. Did your child like the "fill in the workbook" note taking method of the lessons?

[EKS]

Overall, I have been very pleased with the DO courses we've used (prealgebra, geometry, Algebra II, precalculus, and physics so far).  The courses are well thought out and rigorous.  Submitting things for grading is easy, turnaround is quick, and Mr. Owens is great about answering questions.  The DO courses are by far the best online courses we have used.

 

Here are the issues I've had:

 

Both of my kids hate filling in the notes and listening to the lectures.  Because he is trying to communicate, Mr. Owens sometimes repeats himself (which can actually be good if you're trying to write things down) and the examples can seem to go on and on, which is, again, part of an effort to communicate.  *I* appreciate this, but my kids are impatient. 

 

To circumvent the above issues, my younger son uses DO courses very differently from how they are intended to be used.  *I* listen to the lectures and take notes on each year or semester's worth of work (I realize that most people would not be willing to do this).  Not only do I not have to hear about how awful it is to take notes (I choose not to use our math lessons to teach executive skills), I get to know what my son will be learning so that I can be the human in the room to help him when he gets stuck.  For each lesson, I'll watch the introductory videos with my son and then instead of watching DO do the example problems, I have my son do them.  If there is a particularly tricky problem that I don't think my son will be able to do without instruction, we'll watch the video for it.  I find this active approach to be a much better use of my son's time and he seems happier to do it this way.

 

The only course that I wasn't thrilled with was the geometry course.  There is a disconnect between the instruction, the practice problems (from the Jacobs 3rd edition book), and the HW and test problems.  For that course, I ended up listening to the lectures myself and then teaching the material to my son.  I had to supplement heavily with problems from the Jacobs 2nd edition book, which has a much more scaffolded approach to proofs.  In the end, my son did very well in the course and learned a lot, but it was a huge amount of work for both of us.   

[MorningGlory]

My older son has loved the two DO math classes he has taken: Precalculus and AP Calculus. This son is very self-motivated; he sets his own school schedule and does not like any wasted time in his day, so Derek Owens has been a perfect solution for him. Ds can schedule the lessons as he sees fit...although he does try to loosely follow Mr. Owen's suggested weekly schedule. 

 

Like Kai's sons, my ds does not particularly like filling in the notes, but speaking from experience, it is an efficient method of getting students to actively listen to a lesson AND *do* the math themselves. Mr. Owens is personable, and I have heard my son laugh out loud several times just from listening to those recorded lessons. He also has told me about material that he learned "from Mr. Owens" on multiple occasions (especially physics related). 

 

Like others have said, the turn-around is quick and Mr. Owens is responsive. Keep in mind that he does have assistants who often help with grading. We can tell by the writing when Derek has graded a paper (and he has personally graded almost all of the calculus papers). My son has only had trouble with one topic (trig proofs) in these two years, and Derek personally wrote him some encouragement and sent him an extra video with more help via email. Derek did the same for my friend's son in algebra 2, so I know that is a common practice. 

 

My son has never complained about the video download time, and we have DSL service. There have been a couple of times over these two years that our internet has gone completely out for a day or two, but it doesn't matter because the course is completely asynchronous! That's a relief!

 

He offers both regular and honors editions of the courses. You do not have to decide until after a month or so whether you want the honors or regular version. The honors version just has extra more-difficult homework problems. The price is the same.

 

For your situation, Derek Owens is an excellent choice. I do not think you will be disappointed. 

 

ETA: Despite being so pleased with DO, I am strongly considering a live class for 2nd ds and have posted questions about the possibility on another thread. My 2nd ds does not have the same self-drive as my older son, so I'm not sure the asynchronous format would work in his best interest. I think he needs definite deadlines to help boost his organizational skills. Plus he is much more social and would enjoy the interaction with other students in a live class. 

Edited January 7, 2016 by MorningGlory

[Luckymama]

Another data point but it may not fit the OP's situation.

 

Dd is very motivated, a quick learner, and impatient with repetition. She had used Art of Problem Solving books since pre-algebra. Before Christmas she begged to drop DO AP Calculus because she was so bored that she didn't want to do math at all anymore :eek: So she's now working her way through AoPS Calculus, and I am quickly writing a syllabus for AP approval so that I can have access to the teacher materials from College Board.

[RootAnn]

Eldest is doing DO Physics this year. She's an average kid, not very motivated unless she likes the subject. She doesn't like science.

The class hasn't lit her fire. She hates it.

That said, she's doing fine in it. Not sure what her retention will be. Seems to cover all the required material for (non AP) physics. If she takes the SAT IIs for Physics, she'll have to study more material and DO has a document listing other topics that will need to be covered.

We have a USB drive with the videos on it so she doesn't have to be on an internet connection. DO sent it for no extra charge along with the lab pack we are renting.

 

She does better with live classes with other kids, so I'm not looking at his math at this point.

DO has been very good at getting back to us when we have questions & the turnaround on homework is fantastic.

[Julie of KY]

I use Derek Owens differently than most, but have been happy so far this year. I am perfectly capable of teaching the math and answering my kids questions, but I needed something to bridge the gap between me as the primary teacher and my kids.

 

Daughter - doing DO prealgebra; she doesn't take any notes. She listens to the lectures and then does the homework. If there are any problems, then I make her go back and do the examples with me. This is filling in some gaps that we were having a hard time getting done. My plan is to move her on to AoPS Prealgebra with me teaching next (already started).

 

Son #2 - doing DO Physics with me paying half-price and doing the grading and answering questions myself. This has been a great resource to get physics taught and removing me from being the primary teacher. I can give feedback and instruction as  needed on the homework. This son is also very independent and self-motivated and I've told him he can have a financial incentive to finish at a faster pace so I don't have to pay for as many months. :closedeyes:  He'll probably do DO precalculus next, but all has math before now has been AoPS.

 

 

[MarkT]

I would have him watch a lesson of the appropriate course (maybe what he is taking now) and see how he likes learning that way.

Give him a couple of problems to do related to the video watched.

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/derekowens

[dereksurfs]

We haven't used DO for math.  However, ds14 started with MUS, then moved to TabletClass starting with Pre-A which is also asynchronous.  It was definitely a step up in challenge.  It's important for you to keep in mind that both MUS and TT are known for being on the lighter side of the spectrum when it comes to math challenge level.  So, as you approach his next course, whatever that may be, this transition is something to also take into consideration.  He will have to work harder and learn to struggle more, wrestling with difficult problems.  We actually moved to AoPS after TabletClass because I really wanted to work on ds's ability to wrestle with difficult problems and deal with that associated frustration.  

 

In this case, DO may be a better bridge to higher level math as it is known to have adequate rigor while being asynchronous in nature.  Overall, ds14 enjoys the interaction of live math courses more.  However, if I were in your situation, I think I would go with DO, TabletClass or something else asynchronous to make the transition smoother.  

Edited January 9, 2016 by dereksurfs

[EKS]

He used MUS in the past & would get annoyed if he didn't "get it" from the video, since there was no other input & I'd have to figure it out & explain it to him. TT he liked the explanation for each problem you got wrong, but it's time to move on from TT. I got him through Alg & Geometry but have a baby & toddler & other kids & am maxed out on math.

 

This part of your post didn't quite penetrate when I responded earlier.

 

DO is a huge step up from TT (I've used both).  If you expect him to work independently, and you want to use DO, I'd have him go quickly through DO's Algebra I and then move directly to Algebra II (no need to repeat geometry).  

[MamaSprout]

We like his science better than his math. Keep in mind that we have not used the full courses (only the "products") for PreA and Physical Science, and PreA was only used as review and refresh for a kid who had already covered most of it already, though somewhat eclectically.

 

 

[GoodGrief]

I just asked my daughter, and she said she rarely used the videos during her time with Derek Owens precalculus. There was no textbook for Calc AB (this was 2 years ago, so maybe different now), so she had to use them then, and I guess it was fine, though not as convenient for her (as she does school on the go frequently.)

 

I really like Derek Owens, and would have stuck with him if he had higher math options!  My daughter used Teaching Textbooks through Algebra 2 prior to DO, and had no problems transitioning. She went on to complete Calc 2 and Calc 3 at the local university with high "A"s each time after DO.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Gr8lander

[dereksurfs]

This part of your post didn't quite penetrate when I responded earlier.

 

DO is a huge step up from TT (I've used both).  If you expect him to work independently, and you want to use DO, I'd have him go quickly through DO's Algebra I and then move directly to Algebra II (no need to repeat geometry).  

 

Yes, I was thinking something similar.  There may in fact be some remediation needed.  In addition, Algebra especially is so foundational to the rest of mathematcs to follow, I would recommend doubling down on that before jumping right into DO Algebra 2.  TT and MUS tend to miss a number primary concepts normally introduced in those courses in terms of scope.  As such, a number of families will use them as Pre-Algebra for more challenging Algebra courses to follow.  Alternatively, you could go right into Algebra 2.  Then when he hits difficult material, you could remediate at that point using a variety resources.  Whichever way you decide to go, he will be dealing with a number of new challenges, some of which may be related to gaps in scope as well as depth.

Edited January 9, 2016 by dereksurfs

[dereksurfs]

We like his science better than his math. Keep in mind that we have not used the full courses (only the "products") for PreA and Physical Science, and PreA was only used as review and refresh for a kid who had already covered most of it already, though somewhat eclectically.

 

Since you only used DO for Pre-A, was there something you didn't especially care for?  I am considering it for our middle dd who struggles more with math.  I'm still undecided what to use for Pre-A at this point.  I think TabletClass would be too hard for her as it contains more actual Algebraic content than DO Pre-A.   While that was great a great fit for ds14, I know TC would be too much for her.

Edited January 9, 2016 by dereksurfs

[Julie of KY]

Since you only used DO for Pre-A, was there something you didn't especially care for?  I am considering it for our middle dd who struggles more with math.  I'm still undecided what to use for Pre-A at this point.  I think TabletClass would be too hard for her as it contains more actual Algebraic content than DO Pre-A.   While that was great a great fit for ds14, I know TC would be too much for her.

 

Not the original poster, but I've really liked DO prealgebra for my daughter who is bright, but has struggled more with math. DO has been an excellent teacher and has filled in the gaps where she was missing things. My oldest has listened in on the videos and says DO is a great teacher.

[hopskipjump]

My oldest is using DO for the first time this year and so far - it's been fantastic! He gets the graded homework and tests back to her lightning-fast and has always been extremely helpful when I've emailed him (before we decided to sign up). I highly recommend DO. It's been nice to have video-teaching without being chained to a schedule of a live teacher class --- but still have the benefits of questions/answers with a live teacher if anything comes up.

 

(DD is taking the AP Calc class...)

[MamaSprout]

Since you only used DO for Pre-A, was there something you didn't especially care for?  I am considering it for our middle dd who struggles more with math.  I'm still undecided what to use for Pre-A at this point.  I think TabletClass would be too hard for her as it contains more actual Algebraic content than DO Pre-A.   While that was great a great fit for ds14, I know TC would be too much for her.

 

I do like Derek Owen Pre-A, but not as well as the Physical Science (my dd loves the Physical Science).

 

It might be a good fit for your dd. I would talk to DO to see if you can have a sample chapter for your dd to work through with the videos. I'm not familiar with TabletClass, but DO covers a lot of material, just in bite-sized pieces.

 

We didn't really use DO as intended, we sort of "flipped" it. Dd took the test. If she scored a 90, we moved on. If she didn't, we did the parts she missed. We did the midterm exam and she is about to take the final.

 

My dd is mathy, though, and does play with it on her own time. She wants to do DO for Algebra, but the same way we did the PreA (I'd rather not move so fast for Algebra, although DO said she could probably do it for at least a few chapters as there is plenty of review.) 

 

I'm wavering between "If it's not broke" and providing sufficient challenge for her. We'll probably try Foerster.

 

I think we will look at DO for Algebra 2 and above if I don't come up with something else. DO is a good teacher, very flexible, and dd likes his classes so far.

 

ETA: I see your dd's use Math Mammoth. I had MM 3-7a, and used parts of it (and most of 6), but it was always an uncomfortable fit. To be fair, most math curriculum has not been a good fit. So in that regard, DO has been a smashing success. DD has done it independently without complaint and knows more than she did when she started.

Edited January 9, 2016 by elladarcy

[lmrich]

We are lucky enough to take live classes with DO. He is the nicest man. My girls adore him and really respect him. I find the work rigorous. He is extremely organized and responds quickly to questions. My oldest dd hates math but got an A first semester pre-calc.

[Hilltopmom]

Ok, I'm sold. I'll have him try some sample lessons first, to be sure he likes it.

I wish I had known about it 2 years ago & we would've started with it.

 

As far as repeating Alg 1 with DO before starting Alg 2, I think I'd have a mutiny. He did MUS Alg 1 & I had him redo Alg 1 with TT already (he's just finishing that up) because I felt his MUS grasp was iffy ( we had a new baby that year & I was not on top of his school work that well). Ugh, I would've used something other than TT if I'd known better. ("Everyone" local here uses TT, MUS, or Saxon)

 

We'll jump into Alg2 with DO & remediate then as needed I think.

 

Thank you for all your responses!

Edited January 9, 2016 by Hilltopmom

[livetoread]

My son took Geometry and Physics from DO and is now taking Alg. II. He is an average student and does well with the classes. I was nervous given that many say DO is not easy, but son did fine. If it was clear from the homework that son isn't getting it, DO sends additional videos and has son redo the homework.

 

Son ended up getting an 89% in both Physics and Geometry - so close to an A. He emailed DO to see if there was any extra credit or something and DO said he could retake some of the tests he scored Cs on. So, so generous and actually a great idea because he would have learned the material even better. My son tried one test, got another C and decided he could live with the Bs. I thought I was going to strangle him, lol.

 

Anyway, we have found DO to be responsive and a good teacher. The classes work for my average but disciplined son.

[MarkT]

Ok, I'm sold. I'll have him try some sample lessons first, to be sure he likes it.

I wish I had known about it 2 years ago & we would've started with it.

 

As far as repeating Alg 1 with DO before starting Alg 2, I think I'd have a mutiny. He did MUS Alg 1 & I had him redo Alg 1 with TT already (he's just finishing that up) because I felt his MUS grasp was iffy ( we had a new baby that year & I was not on top of his school work that well). Ugh, I would've used something other than TT if I'd known better. ("Everyone" local here uses TT, MUS, or Saxon)

 

We'll jump into Alg2 with DO & remediate then as needed I think.

 

Thank you for all your responses!

When are you starting?  Take an Algebra 2 placement test (many free online like Thinkwell) and just review any issues found before formally starting Alg 2.

 

http://www.thinkwell.com/homeschool/placementtests/

http://keystoneschoolonline.com/high-school/curriculum/high-school-placement-exams

http://184.168.83.81/Diagnostic/Algebra2.pdf

http://www.putneyschool.org/registration/mathplacementtest

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2016 by MarkT

[Matryoshka]

Has anyone done the Alg2 with the Honors option? How is it?

 

DD is really being a pain about wanting to start Precalculus at the CC next year, but now she's saying she'd just like to study the topics she missed on the Accuplacer. I told her under no circumstances is she taking Precalculus without a proper Alg2 class first. But other than AoPS, the other Alg2 classes start in the fall. And AoPS is, yes, very hard, probably covers more than she needs to start Precalculus, and would run through the end of fall term. And honestly, she dreams big, but often doesn't want to stick with her big plan when the going gets tough, which is a big reason why an AoPS class scares me a bit.

 

DO is starting to sound good. I like the idea of the fill-in notes, which would make sure she got the key points from the lecture and doesn't just zone out. And she could start in May when Geometry is done, then if she finishes by the end of the summer, or fall, or not till next spring, it's all good to me. I'm not the one thinking rushing to Precalculus is in any way necessary, and it puts the pace back on her.

 

I do think since she should do the Honors option since it's there, and I'd rather she go deep than rush.

 

And with DO, sounds like if by some miracle she sticks to her accelerated plan, I end up saving money... and if she doesn't, I don't have to scramble for a Plan B...

 

ETA - Thanks for this thread. I'd kind of written DO off because generally my kids do better in live classes, but reading this got me thinking otherwise, at least for kid number 3...

Edited January 9, 2016 by Matryoshka

[Hilltopmom]

When are you starting? Take an Algebra 2 placement test (many free online like Thinkwell) and just review any issues found before formally starting Alg 2.

 

 

That is brilliant! Why are some of the easiest solutions sometimes so elusive to ourselves? Yet so obvious when pointed out by someone else:). Thanks everyone, truly.

[Julie of KY]

We'll jump into Alg2 with DO & remediate then as needed I think.

 

 

 

If you find yourself needing to remediate Algebra 1, I think you can pay for a month's access to DO videos, etc and work on the pieces you need to do and then move on. Also I've heard he'll work with you on helping sort out what needs to be remediated if necessary.

[MamaSprout]

What are his "honors" questions on the homework like? I asked him, but he just said more difficult. Are the like the C questions in the Dolciani books?

[GoodGrief]

FWIW, dd struggled a bit with the DO placement test for precalc, but actually did great in the course without a need for additional help.

[Dicentra]

Has anyone done the Alg2 with the Honors option? How is it?

 

 

 

Dd is doing his Honours Alg2 right now.  She likes it.  Her midterm mark just before Christmas was a 92%.  She really likes the asynchronous approach - that's probably been the biggest draw for us.  She's also doing his Honours Physics and likes that as well.  I think her midterm mark was a 90% for that course.

 

What are his "honors" questions on the homework like? I asked him, but he just said more difficult. Are the like the C questions in the Dolciani books?

 

I'm not familiar with the Dolciani books but I would say that his "honours" questions take the application of the lesson content to a higher level.  The regular questions on the homework and on the tests will test things that have been explicitly covered in his lectures.  The honours questions ask the kids to take what has been learned and apply it in a new way that hasn't been explicitly taught.  I just talked to dd and she says she feels that's a pretty accurate description of the honours questions. :)

[Julie of KY]

DD is really being a pain about wanting to start Precalculus at the CC next year, but now she's saying she'd just like to study the topics she missed on the Accuplacer. I told her under no circumstances is she taking Precalculus without a proper Alg2 class first. But other than AoPS, the other Alg2 classes start in the fall. And AoPS is, yes, very hard, probably covers more than she needs to start Precalculus, and would run through the end of fall term. And honestly, she dreams big, but often doesn't want to stick with her big plan when the going gets tough, which is a big reason why an AoPS class scares me a bit.

 

DO is starting to sound good. I like the idea of the fill-in notes, which would make sure she got the key points from the lecture and doesn't just zone out. And she could start in May when Geometry is done, then if she finishes by the end of the summer, or fall, or not till next spring, it's all good to me. I'm not the one thinking rushing to Precalculus is in any way necessary, and it puts the pace back on her.

 

If your dd is serious about starting precalculus in the fall, another option would be to start DO algebra 2 this winter/spring while still doing geometry so that she doesn't have to rush as fast to get through it.