Samm Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) .. Edited December 3, 2015 by Samm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I'm sure there are great programs out there - with people actually mentoring the group. But this is not what you have. I would pull out of the group immediately. The "Is radio dead anyway" comment, while I'm sure it was borne from frustration, is not a good perspective. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 What do your kids want to achieve? Are they likely to achieve it? Do they care if they do or not? If you are going to quit though you need to do it now and as gracefully as possible. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) I would say 8-17 is a large age range. My son is on a youth leadership board that is 13-21. The calendar and events always catch me by surprise. Some things are organized well and some are a train wreck. There is 2 adults involved and they will make recommendations at meetings, but the kids are free to proceed as they want. That said, my son HAS learned quite a bit about working with others and has gained some leadership skills. Teen driven things are often like this in my experience. And it's not necessarily about the kids involved not being bright. Teens do not want to be told how to do things and often executive function is lagging. No one who has worked with my son (newly 15) would know he scored well on the ACT in 7th and 8th grade. They would just see an unorganized, air headed teen. In my experience, stuff for 8-13+ are often much more adult influenced and driven and better organized. To me this doent sound like a good fit for your kids right now. I wouldn't be too thrilled if a teen wasn't treating my 9 year old well, but I don't necessarily think the same group would or should be a good fit for a 9 and a 16 year old and I'd be pulling my 9 year old. Edited December 3, 2015 by WoolySocks 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Tick Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I would do this weekend's trip. Then I would back out, trying not to burn bridges with the radio people. In the New year, you and your kids can work up the most awesome kid-radio program ever to conveniently fill in the open time slot that will be left when this group flakes out or starts garnering fines from the FCC. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samm Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) .. Edited December 3, 2015 by Samm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I agree that finding a mentor is a good idea. Ask at the station, there may be a reporter willing. Or someone else. "Is radio dead anyway?" made me snort coffee. My DH is in broadcasting. Radio. :) In fact, depending on where you are, he might be able to connect you with some mentors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 My kid being screamed at would be a bit of a deal breaker to me. Was your child apologized to? Did the adults step in and say that wasn't acceptable? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samm Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) ... Edited December 3, 2015 by Samm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samm Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) .. Edited December 3, 2015 by Samm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 When I have a bad feeling about a group, I leave the group. Groups are hard to pull off. I've been in more groups than I can count on both hands that have failed or fizzled due to a lack of ability of everyone to work together, pull their own weight, or manage cooperation. Homeschoolers are especially difficult to deal with in my experience. They operate a lot like cats. They want to be independent. They don't want to be herded. But it's not all that surprising because it takes a certain mindset to decide to homeschool in the first place. The mindset that one can make their own rules and march to their own beat. I was in one particular group (I have to be vague to protect privacy) where it was stressed that we do not help our kids with the projects. That they should take it upon themselves to gather supplies and work on the project. Sounds nice in theory and I probably took that a little bit too much to heart, but the kids were not old enough to really handle that. So nothing happened. Nobody managed to complete a project at all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samm Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) .. Edited December 3, 2015 by Samm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Walk away without a second glance backward. Edited December 4, 2015 by reefgazer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Nothing about this situation sounds good. I would bail without a second thought. There was a time when ds's boy scout troop had some real leadership issues and dh and I were going to leave but a new leader stepped up to address those issues and a lot got solved, so I was glad we stayed put because the troop we were thinking of leaving for was not great either. If this is the only way to get this activity, I might struggle to work it out if one of your kids really wanted to. But I bet you can get this sort of experience in a better way with a little work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 When I have a bad feeling about a group, I leave the group. Groups are hard to pull off. I've been in more groups than I can count on both hands that have failed or fizzled due to a lack of ability of everyone to work together, pull their own weight, or manage cooperation. Homeschoolers are especially difficult to deal with in my experience. They operate a lot like cats. They want to be independent. They don't want to be herded. But it's not all that surprising because it takes a certain mindset to decide to homeschool in the first place. The mindset that one can make their own rules and march to their own beat. I was in one particular group (I have to be vague to protect privacy) where it was stressed that we do not help our kids with the projects. That they should take it upon themselves to gather supplies and work on the project. Sounds nice in theory and I probably took that a little bit too much to heart, but the kids were not old enough to really handle that. So nothing happened. Nobody managed to complete a project at all. Since the OP's family are the only homeschoolers, it seems unfair to blame homeschoolers for this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 My understanding from reading your posts is that the group wouldn't have even had a tour if it wasn't for you. I would count that as a win. They don't want your help beyond that. I would tell my kids to be thankful for the tour and pull them out. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 We've talked a lot in my house about the art you want to do, and the art other people will pay you to do; the art you can create all on your own, and the art that needs a group to bring it to fruition; the art you can control, and the art that must get filtered through someone else before reaching its audience. There is a lot to learn about the art you can make as part of a group, the different kinds of ways to organize groups, how to run a group so that you can create a cohesive product while respecting and using the artistic input and talent of group members, and how to keep group members interested and happy and contributing, while still actually getting things done rather than just having endless conversations about how or what to do. If you stay, treat it as a learning process. Have thoughtful conversations about all of the above and more. Seek out working professionals and ask them about these things. Take time to discuss how to behave appropriately when a group isn't going well, so that you come out of it having not burned any bridges, ready to move on to the next project having learned things (even if what NOT to do), made contacts, and gotten ideas about how to make the next project go better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Homeschoolers are especially difficult to deal with in my experience. They operate a lot like cats. They want to be independent. They don't want to be herded. But it's not all that surprising because it takes a certain mindset to decide to homeschool in the first place. The mindset that one can make their own rules and march to their own beat. I was in one particular group (I have to be vague to protect privacy) where it was stressed that we do not help our kids with the projects. That they should take it upon themselves to gather supplies and work on the project. Sounds nice in theory and I probably took that a little bit too much to heart, but the kids were not old enough to really handle that. So nothing happened. Nobody managed to complete a project at all. So much truth here. Homeschool groups can be just crazy. I participate in a bunch of them but I've come around to not really relying on others. On the 2nd point on more kid driven things, I think this is a problem with having such a huge developmental range. I have a freshman in high school this year. Over the past couple years, some of his activities have rolled over to be more student driven. From the outside, this often DOES look like a train wreck. Just a couple weeks ago a teen leader of a group my son is in had a temper tantrum because she rescheduled something that had been on the calendar for months for later in the afternoon. And then was shocked when a bunch of kids (including mine) couldn't make it or stay later. She ended up apologizing later. When a 9 and a 16 year old have an ugly interaction in a group setting, what should happen? That's really hard. If it were 2 teens, I'd be coaching my own teen to stand up for him/her self or just avoiding someone I didn't mesh well with and reminding him some people are just rude and don't handle their emotions well. If it were 2 9 year olds, an adult should be right in the mix guiding the kids. A 16 year old is not necessarily going to be receptive to correction like a younger kid will in a group like this. One of the things, I do appreciate about the teen council my kid is on is that the kids ARE allowed to fail. Some events don't go well. They do a post mortem to discuss, learn, and move forward. That IS a valuable learning process even though it makes me want to pull my hair out to watch it. And just to be clear, they have had some very successful events. This is a council that has been standing for many years and the kids come and go. There is an application and interview process to participate. A radio show like this isn't a great way to do this when you pretty much NEED to be successful. So the 2DIC may want this to be kid driven, but maybe it just can't. Or maybe the 2DIC are just complete airheads incapable of being good mentors. If you end up starting another group and you want it to be more parent driven, I'd make it for 4th-8th graders. I don't necessarily get the part about kids not wanting to share their scripts/materials/what they've work on? It does seem like there should be a review process and continuity and that each kid doesn't just get 5 minutes to do whatever, but there are many ways to do it and it seems like it should be an organized group decision. Anyway, since this is a brand new group, it sounds like the vision, scope, and goals weren't clearly laid out and the age range doesn't really work IMO. Edited December 3, 2015 by WoolySocks 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne in ABQ Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Walk away without a second glance backward. Hi Reefgazer. Please read the first sentence of Samm's post, the post you quoted, and delete her quote. She would like to keep the details of her situation confidential, and she plans to delete those details at some point, but she can't delete them if they're quoted in your post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Samm Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) ..... Edited December 3, 2015 by Samm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samm Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) .. Edited December 3, 2015 by Samm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I think that email is a good start. Many people (kids too!) don't realize that leadership is more than just the taking charge at a meeting part. Theres a ton of behind the scene legwork that has to occur for a meeting to be productive. That email can give the girl a heads up that as a leader, it;s her job to do the pre meeting legwork that ensures that a meeting is productive. If she's not interested in doing this, every meeting is a waste of time. I would change the final point of that email to read something like "I was disappointed that my youngest brother was treated rudely and disrespectfully at the last meeting. I cannot be a part of a group that does not treat every member, no matter the age, with respect. As older kids, we have to learn to present our points to others with kindness and tact. Groups that can't treat others like this are not the kind that I can participate in. " 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samm Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) ... Edited December 3, 2015 by Samm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Thanks so much. He gave it the nod. By the way, I love you all. I am not good with words. well, I ought to be decent at it. I'm a professional writer. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Since the OP's family are the only homeschoolers, it seems unfair to blame homeschoolers for this. I'm sure this happens with people who don't homeschool, but I've been in more homeschool groups than not and that has been my experience every single time. I've stopped joining most homeschool related things because of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 But I admit I was assuming homeschool group. I skimmed too quickly and missed that part. Pretty much any group without clear and strong leadership and without explicit directions/rules/guidelines often has difficulty. I've definitely seen various levels of organization in non homeschool groups. For example, the choir one of mine is in is a well oiled machine. They say exactly what they want. They clearly spell out the rules. Things always run smoothly. But then at the dance place, despite having done major dance productions for many years it was chaotic every single time. Communication was lousy. Nobody ever seemed to know what was going on. The owner was a great dance instructor, but she was lousy at organizing shows. She also did not put other people in charge of it to help her. There were times I wound up feeling pretty raw over the experience because it was so stressful due to poor planning and leadership. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 It sounds ridiculous and a waste of time. I know group activities can be hard to come by but what a mess. I would leave now and do something else awesome and have the kids learn to set up a podcast or something. This group sounds less organized than my daughter's third grade elementary school recess drama (play) club. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samm Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) ... Edited December 3, 2015 by Samm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I would meet with the station manager, mention you have your doubts about that project working, and ask if there is another show your kids could be involved in. Perhaps they could start by job shadowing a couple of DJ's. Perhaps they could get a part time job interning or assisting on a Saturday show. If you do it for school credit they don't even need to get paid, you just need to do some paperwork establishing what they'd be learning, how to measure what they learned, and have someone at the station fill out an evaluation page. Experience without chaos is always better IMO. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Coming into a group and saying "I'm not sharing my material" on something that wasn't set up ahead of time to accommodate your personal, copyrighted material may come off as sour grapes and make your kids seem not like team players. I can see both sides of that actually. If that doesn't work for your kids, that's fine. Move on. If the group decides to pool stories and that's the way things will be done, that's fine too. If the group decides individuals can "own" their materials, great. If the 14 year old leader is coming of as a dictator and not organized, it's right for other kids to call leader on it. To me it sounds like 2DIC is expecting this to be very student driven. It sounds like the OP wants it more adult driven where kids are given very particular assignments and roles and someone following step by step. High schoolers often don't have their parents editing their e-mails and telling them who to contact and what to do and what the next step will be and often aren't receptive to that level of intervention. And that does get messy. I've come to expect a difference in activities that are adult driven and organized (and mostly likely paid for) vs. youth leadership and driven opportunities. Thinking about it more, I'd probably just drop it given your expectations vs what exists today. It's often hardest to be in the start up of something. And maybe they will just fall flat on their faces and this won't exist at all in very short order. Edited December 3, 2015 by WoolySocks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samm Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) .... Edited December 3, 2015 by Samm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I think you should leave the group - probably after the tour because you organized that and it's happening and set. I think you should leave in part because it's obviously a pretty disorganized group without good adult direction or leadership, just like everyone else is saying. However, I also think you should leave because it's clear you greatly dislike the children in the group. You basically said they were all dumb in your OP. I can't say whether that's true or not, but I don't think adults who dislike children should try to teach or lead them, which means that you can't fix this by getting involved - you hate the kids and are bound to be prejudiced against them. They don't need that. Just walk away. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 However, I also think you should leave because it's clear you greatly dislike the children in the group. You basically said they were all dumb in your OP. I can't say whether that's true or not, but I don't think adults who dislike children should try to teach or lead them, which means that you can't fix this by getting involved - you hate the kids and are bound to be prejudiced against them. They don't need that. Just walk away. I got some of that tone too. It's easy as a parent of younger kids to tout how prepared and bright your own kids are. I hope your kids are consistently awesome, hard working, and receptive to your intervention and advice through the teen years. But I've certainly gotten some humble pie the past couple years as the parent of a now freshman. Home school kids do have the luxury of working on this kind of thing AS school. The other kids are choosing to do this on TOP of school and probably do not have a parent driving the effort and following up every step of the way. Parents of school kids already are doing tons of follow up with day to day school work. I homeschool my kids, so I totally see the benefits of the way we're choosing to do things. But not everyone can parent like that. I just think the OPs expectations are pretty high for something that was just recently started up as a youth led group. If you're really interested in letting your kids have this sort of experience without the additional group dynamics, maybe talk to the radio station about volunteer work they can do. If they have their own web pages, maybe a good next step would be learning how to make your own pod cast. The point of youth driven/led stuff in my mind is more about the process, the team building, the leadership building, getting to work with various personalities and less about the exact end result. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samm Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) ... Edited December 3, 2015 by Samm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samm Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) ... Edited December 3, 2015 by Samm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samm Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) .. Edited December 3, 2015 by Samm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Hate was too strong a word, you're right. I don't think you've threatened or crucified them or anything. But I sensed a lot of hostility in how you talked about the 14 yo editor and the group as a whole. You don't like them. You said they're not "bright." You're not just fed up with the adults and the organization, you're fed up with the kids specifically. And maybe they deserve it... I'm not there. Sometimes kids really are lacking in enough skills that they're not going to make something work no matter the leadership and organization. But maybe not. And either way, it's time to leave. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almondbutterandjelly Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I think this group is a poor fit for your personality style. Based on that alone, I think you should drop it. It's not worth the angst. (By the way, no judgment. That kind of group would also be a poor fit for my personality style and I would drop it.) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I think this group is a poor fit for your personality style. Based on that alone, I think you should drop it. It's not worth the angst. (By the way, no judgment. That kind of group would also be a poor fit for my personality style and I would drop it.) Heck - this kind of thing is a bad fit for my personality too, so no judgment on that end! LOL. It wasn't until my kid just didn't want adults up in his business all the time that I started to see the value in this type of group and that was at about 13. Brightness does not equal team skills or executive function. We pulled my kid out of school in 1st grade after he hit the ceiling of an IQ screener and was reading junior high books. Just now as a freshman is he starting to gather a little self motivation and self organizational skills and it's still a ways until he's truly college ready. My 11 year old daughter is much more naturally on the ball with this kind of thing, but who knows what's coming around the bend for her attitude. The parents leaving a group of 8-17 year olds and they figure it out just sound like a recipe for disaster and a little too much Lord of the Flies. A truly teen led high school group or a parent led and organized junior high might work. That's a range of 3rd-12th grade and pretty ridiculous IMO. I've been leading and teaching kids groups of varying ages for years. Even if kids are very bright, generally there are just HUGE differences in an 8 and a 14 year old. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samm Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) ... Edited December 3, 2015 by Samm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I also agree that the age span is too great. Also, WRT to the copyrighted material, tell your kids that if the others decide to pool the scripts, then they should either, a. write something else that they are willing to add to the pool or b. leave the group. Just sitting around griping isn't an option. Also, there is merit to quietly leaving and saying, "hey, guys, we aren't interested in this kind of project. Good Luck with it!" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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