SereneHome Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Would you start with that subject each day or leave it until the end of the school day? Math has become something of a problem for my oldest. I don't think it's bc he doesn't understand it. I think he just really doesn't like it bc he hasn't been doing well on Mental math and the whole "math" subject became a drag for him. We are doing Singapore. Would you let go of mental math for awhile? Would you increase it and make him push it through? I don't think we need to change it to a different curriculum as he likes the workbooks, doesn't need any more manipulative, etc. He is just a kid who doesn't like making mistakes and I think he doesn't know how to take on a challenge. And I don't know how to teach him that. :( May be I am not explaining this well, but I think he would do great in math if he didn't think of it as something he doesn't like. Does it make sense? What would you be doing? BTW, we have completed 2A and 2B. He is working through 2A Intensive Problems and Challenging Word Problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I would make it the first or second. I would have the kid's favorite subject just before or just after it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 First and in very short chunks of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 It is possible that you are expecting too much mental math and not encouraging the use of tangible things, but you can test that easily and see (by giving hands on things to use during the "mental math" part of your work). FWIW, it doesn't sound to me like you have a math problem - you have an attitude problem If it really is that he needs to practice being wrong and having to work hard, think how great it is that he can learn this lesson so young! I'd find all sorts of ways to help him see struggle as a chance to actually learn something. I'd talk about how you look for opportunities to learn - and learning happens when you don't know it already. I'd find an instrument - they are great for this kind of learning. I'd also keep math early in the day (at a time when he is fresh). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesje22000 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 We start with a favorite subject. Getting late out of bed = missing the favorite subject. After that we do the least favorite subject, as I am the most Fresh in the morning and need to have the mental energy to bear the tears, the grumpfs and the dragging. Then we do another favorite subject but not the most over the top loving one. We end the day with the 'easier' subjects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 How much mental math should I be doing? I am still using 1B and 2B books bc I am worried that he doesn't have the foundation that he needs/that I would like for him to have. He breezed through all the workbooks, he can add/subtract numbers in his head when we are out and about - am I being too strict for expecting him to do it during school time? I set the timer for 5 minutes to see how many he can do. I tell him that the ONLY reason I set the timer is bc that's the only way I can see if there is progress or not. I just don't think 5-7 questions in 5 minutes is good enough. Am I doing this all wrong??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) nm Edited December 2, 2015 by ^ 022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I did Singapore math with all my dc up to 4B, then we switched to a program with more review. Some of my dc loved the mental math and did very well at it, and some less so. I didn't dwell too much on it, as long as they were understanding the concepts well and could do the math correctly. As my dc are getting older, learning to write out their math problems accurately and show the steps they've taken, is much more important than being able to do a lot of mental math. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Sometimes homeschoolers in blogs, books and convention workshops send the message to new homeschoolers that homeschooling done "right" is always fun and enjoyable. That's not true. While no one should intentionally make homeschooling boring, dry and grueling and an effort should be made to make it interesting, it just isn't all the time. Sometimes it's frustrating and tedious. That's not a negative reflection on the homeschooling parent or the homeschooling child, it's just how life is. Not every kid is going to enjoy every subject and every assignment. There are going to be things each kid dislikes and even hates. I think if an effort has been made to approach challenging content in different ways and the kid still doesn't like it, oh well, that's life for you. I've had to park in math a bit longer with my youngest because she may be capable of doing some arithmetic if she takes her time and figures it out, but she hasn't memorized some basics. Before we move on a whole lot farther with more complex things, she really needs to have some basics down automatically or it will bite us in the butt later. So that's what we're doing for part of our math. We're using a math computer program (Reflex Math) for drill in a fun way. There are others out there. We're using Life of Fred for applied, conceptual math in addition to some Singapore Math like Step by Step Problem Solving and Math U See for manipulatives. We have textbooks from Singapore Math and Math U See for mechanics practice and applied math in the word problems. We have many shaped dice and cards we use to play math games for mental math practice as suggested in Singapore Math and other games we've found online. This kid has a very hard time being corrected and no change in approach or curriculum will make that completely go away. I let her check her worksheet type mechanics practice with a calculator because she seems to like correcting herself better than me doing it but if she's wrong she needs to hear she's wrong because we all need to be able to hear when we're wrong. I still correct her in other things, she still doesn't like, but that's just life. If her attitude is bad during school, I hit her where it hurts and she loses screen time for the day, a few day or a week, whatever is proportionate. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I usually started with Bible and a history read-aloud, then did the most dreaded subject first to get it out of the way. I then alternated harder and easier subjects, but worked towards getting the harder ones out of the way. Would you start with that subject each day or leave it until the end of the school day? Math has become something of a problem for my oldest. I don't think it's bc he doesn't understand it. I think he just really doesn't like it bc he hasn't been doing well on Mental math and the whole "math" subject became a drag for him. We are doing Singapore. Would you let go of mental math for awhile? Would you increase it and make him push it through? I don't think we need to change it to a different curriculum as he likes the workbooks, doesn't need any more manipulative, etc. He is just a kid who doesn't like making mistakes and I think he doesn't know how to take on a challenge. And I don't know how to teach him that. :( May be I am not explaining this well, but I think he would do great in math if he didn't think of it as something he doesn't like. Does it make sense? What would you be doing? BTW, we have completed 2A and 2B. He is working through 2A Intensive Problems and Challenging Word Problems. When you say that he isn't doing well on mental math, are you referring to his work in the 2A Intensive Problems and CWP, something within the regular SM workbooks, or something additional that you are adding on? (If it's something additional, can you describe what kind of problems you are having him do? There may be ways to adapt things...) How I would proceed might depend on what he's actually struggling with, and I'm not sure I have a clear understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgrace Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Is he still 7? I generally do the hard/most challenging thing first. I also think perseverance in subjects one doesn't like is a good skill to learn. But if he's 7..I am concerned. I wouldn't want my kid to hate math at 7. I would probably switch up what I'm doing. Can you cover the same topics in a more organic or enjoyable way? Perhaps you could do math together with him in a few small chunks, even if it means slower progress? If it's just the mental math, perhaps tackle that in a different way or even with a different curriculum? I would do whatever I could to make math less onerous for him. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Somewhere I read that children can do best with math at different times of the day. I'd try it at different times and see what time of day that particular child does best with. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 I did Singapore math with all my dc up to 4B, then we switched to a program with more review. Some of my dc loved the mental math and did very well at it, and some less so. I didn't dwell too much on it, as long as they were understanding the concepts well and could do the math correctly. As my dc are getting older, learning to write out their math problems accurately and show the steps they've taken, is much more important than being able to do a lot of mental math. Where I am from we did a lot of mental math and to this day I am very very good at doing math functions in my head. I found it so useful, I was really hoping I could do the same for my kids. ETA: which program did you switch to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 I usually started with Bible and a history read-aloud, then did the most dreaded subject first to get it out of the way. I then alternated harder and easier subjects, but worked towards getting the harder ones out of the way. When you say that he isn't doing well on mental math, are you referring to his work in the 2A Intensive Problems and CWP, something within the regular SM workbooks, or something additional that you are adding on? (If it's something additional, can you describe what kind of problems you are having him do? There may be ways to adapt things...) How I would proceed might depend on what he's actually struggling with, and I'm not sure I have a clear understanding. I am using Mental Math from the back of Home Instructor's guide. I went back to using 1B mental math bc it didn't seem like he was getting concepts like - if you need to do "92-15"- take it to the closest tens, etc. Or break down 15 into 10 and 5 and subtract individually. Or when you need to add/subtract 97, 98,99 - you add/subtract 100 and then deal with the difference. I think I didn't practice addition/subtraction up to 20 and 40 with him when we started 1A and now it's backfiring. I just don't know anymore..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 Is he still 7? I generally do the hard/most challenging thing first. I also think perseverance in subjects one doesn't like is a good skill to learn. But if he's 7..I am concerned. I wouldn't want my kid to hate math at 7. I would probably switch up what I'm doing. Can you cover the same topics in a more organic or enjoyable way? Perhaps you could do math together with him in a few small chunks, even if it means slower progress? If it's just the mental math, perhaps tackle that in a different way or even with a different curriculum? I would do whatever I could to make math less onerous for him. Yes, he is still 7 and no, I wouldn't want my kids to hate math either - I am just so frustrated and deflated and don't know what to do. It's almost like he is going backwards or something. Every time I think he is getting it, we are going back. My husband, who has a college degree in math, seems to think that he has a good feel for numbers and does well, but the second we sit down to do math, it's like.....I can't even explain it....loosing all his knowledge. Is it bc he really doesn't understand the basics? Is it bc it's not fun and he doesn't want to do it? Is it bc he completely lost confidence in himself bc I pushed too hard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I am using Mental Math from the back of Home Instructor's guide. I went back to using 1B mental math bc it didn't seem like he was getting concepts like - if you need to do "92-15"- take it to the closest tens, etc. Or break down 15 into 10 and 5 and subtract individually. Or when you need to add/subtract 97, 98,99 - you add/subtract 100 and then deal with the difference. I think I didn't practice addition/subtraction up to 20 and 40 with him when we started 1A and now it's backfiring. I just don't know anymore..... In that case, you might consider shoring up more basic facts with games (I found games were a good way to work on mental math, and have some ideas here on my blog.) Getting fast on easier facts can make the mental math on bigger numbers easier to conceive. SM is generally started at 7 in Singapore--so part of the issue may be just that the mental math part is ahead of where he's ready to be, even though on paper he seems to easily be able to do more advanced math. If you think he really enjoys SM otherwise, then I would look for fun ways to work on Mental Math (and maybe even back up and fill in with the 1A--maybe he's balking because he needs that reinforcement to help him do the mental math in 1B). Another idea is to let him do the mental math with manipulatives. When he can physically see breaking up 15 into the 10 and 5, or rounding 97 up to 100, you may find that the mental math is easier. Let him show it with things like base 10 blocks for awhile. Let him talk through how to do it. Model for him how to do a demonstration with the blocks if he struggles with that aspect. Manipulatives make things like this very concrete and help students get that picture in their minds. When he can do it easily with manipulatives, then try some without again. Another thought--are you working *just* on mental math right now, or do you mix that practice in with the workbooks? Maybe he needs shorter sessions of mental math (like just a few problems a day with manipulatives) along with a workbook lesson, instead of focusing just on mental math. Keep the mental math part light and fun, and focus on encouraging him and praising his efforts, rather than worrying about how much time it takes him (which will only stress him out anyway and doesn't help him get faster). Kids tend to pick up on things we're tense about! I do agree that kids don't love every subject (mine certainly didn't, and not for a lack of trying on my part!), but if he really hates it, that would have me considering some options. SM is a good program but it's not a fit for every student. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 Thank you so much for all the ideas, I will definitely look at your blog. He is doing IP 2a and CWP 2. He complains about CWP but is doing OK with IP..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 For a long time we did it second. We did something DD chose, usually a fun or favored subject, first, and then math second while she was still fresh. Waiting until the afternoon for it was always a bad idea. She does math first thing after her morning chores now that she's in online school. She had math after lunch last year at the B&M school. It was not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netwelladm Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Doing math in our home after any other subject or task would be a disaster. As soon as school start, we do our pre-algebra. Of course, we have broken our pre-algebra way down. No longer do we do all 30 problems plus practice problems in Saxon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Yes, he is still 7 and no, I wouldn't want my kids to hate math either - I am just so frustrated and deflated and don't know what to do. It's almost like he is going backwards or something. Every time I think he is getting it, we are going back. My husband, who has a college degree in math, seems to think that he has a good feel for numbers and does well, but the second we sit down to do math, it's like.....I can't even explain it....loosing all his knowledge. Is it bc he really doesn't understand the basics? Is it bc it's not fun and he doesn't want to do it? Is it bc he completely lost confidence in himself bc I pushed too hard? He's 7yo. Whether or not he thinks he wants or needs manipulatives, he probably still needs some concrete level work. Sometimes using the mental math drills, but doing them in terms of cookies or lego bricks helps. You have 92 lego bricks and 15 are red, how many are not red? It's the same problem, but he can visualize something in his head besides the abstract numbers. In the past, I've built those kinds of problems up. (12-5 = ? 32-5 = ? 32-15 = ? and so on keeping the 2 and 5 in the one's place. That helps them see the pattern, the how far away from the next ten.) Don't work him beyond 15min at a time. Treat mental math and wb work as different subjects and break them up. Do Mental Math first (10 min, and set a timer. When it goes off, he's done.) Then switch to something he enjoys. Then give ONE word problem. Then take a recess. When he comes back, finish math (10-15min) in the IP book. You do not need to complete every problem in both the IP and CWP. In fact, it's wise to leave some for review later if needed. Also, with Singapore I utilize sticky notes. I work out of 2 or 3 sections at a time. We might only do a tiny portion of a new topic, and flip over to review some trusty old topics. Lather, rinse, repeat until the new becomes trusty and old and we find another new topic. My kids are able to endure "just a little bit" of something hard if they know they can flip the page soon. Plus, there is something about introducing a topic, sleeping on it, digging a bit deeper, sleeping on it, seeing how it relates, sleeping on it, etc... Sometimes that feels too lax. (When I was a kid I was doing an hour of math every night, blah blah blah.) But, I know it's working when I pick up a topic that hasn't been covered in several months and a child still remembers and the next level seems intuitive. (Dividing fractions - gah!) Spreading things out thinly, but over a long period works very well for many kids. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Personally, I'd pull out manipulatives and let him use them while doing the mental math. When he doesn't need them anymore he will probably stop using them. And I'd play games. Many board games are GREAT for practice of the basics of grouping in your mind to add/subtract more quickly. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal_Bear Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I echo the other suggestions to do the hardest thing first. It's harder so to speak to do the harder thing later after your son is more tired from doing other subjects. That being said, my suggestion is to consider changing how you are doing mental math and Singapore word problems. It sounds like your son may do better with more explicit instruction. Look at Fan Math Speed Math Strategies and Fan Math Process Skills in Problem Solving. The first teaches more explicitly the mental strategies for solving problems instead of just the HIG providing a list of drills. It shows you how to do it incrementally and step by step and then goes into the problem sets. I don't actually time my son on anytime as I am more interested in making sure he understands and is applying the strategy. Otherwise he gets to caught up with the timer.For the Process Skills book, this still has SM CWP style word problems, but they actually teach students how to do it in a much more accessible way and more incrementally than CWP does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgrace Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Yes, he is still 7 and no, I wouldn't want my kids to hate math either - I am just so frustrated and deflated and don't know what to do. It's almost like he is going backwards or something. Every time I think he is getting it, we are going back. My husband, who has a college degree in math, seems to think that he has a good feel for numbers and does well, but the second we sit down to do math, it's like.....I can't even explain it....loosing all his knowledge. Is it bc he really doesn't understand the basics? Is it bc it's not fun and he doesn't want to do it? Is it bc he completely lost confidence in himself bc I pushed too hard? I can see why you're frustrated. Ok, so he's ahead of grade level. I would suggest you step back and re-evaluate even if he wasn't, but he is so that suggestion is even easier. Some thoughts: As alternative to/replacement for CWP, consider Singapore FAN math. Go back to level 1 if you think he needs to. This book is much more explicit in both presentation of problems and solutions. It's more incremental and actually instructs/guides the student in how to solve the word problems. I think it's by far a better book than CWP (I've used multiple grade levels of both). Think about what you think he needs to master in mental math from 1. Find fun ways (games if you can) to work on that. Consider c-rods with education unboxed http://www.educationunboxed.com/to learn new skills or refresh anything that seems weak. You can look at his book and then plan to teach the topic in a more engaging way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Governess Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I have a child like this. Here's what I did: I don't time her. It just creates anxiety for her. Her performance is worse when she is being timed. I use two separate math curriculums: Singapore and Saxon. I really don't like Saxon, but she does...and it works for her. It builds her confidence because there is so much practice. She is doing a lot of math right now, but she is doing better and is happier with math now that we are spending more time with it rather than feeling burnt out. Sometimes less is more, but this time, for this kid, more was more. Ha! I use the IP and CWP books a year behind. I have her do the section from the previous IP/CWP level's book before she does the section for the current level textbook and workbook. Learning standard algorithms was great for this kid. In fact, her mental math got better after I stopped focusing on it and decided to just let her use the algorithms. I think the practice of working with the structure of the algorithms helped her organize the numbers mentally, if that makes sense. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I don't time her. It just creates anxiety for her. Her performance is worse when she is being timed. To clarify: When I use the timer in this case, the timer is a boundary for *me* to stop. No matter where we are in the book, 10 minutes a day is enough. We did NOT try to get through a whole page or section in those 10 minutes. That would create anxiety! I wouldn't even let the child see the book to know where we were at on a page. Just 10 minutes of focus, and saved by the bell...or timer. A young child does't need to feel anxiety over math, I agree. Also, someone mentioned games, and I will just echo. Do not underestimate the power of games, especially strategy games that seem to have no math involved. Muggins games are awesome, btw. I'd recommend the knockout-muggins board. He can play Knockout now and Muggins in a year or so. Both games start out simply enough, but the strategy (and the math needed to work the strategy) grow as the child does. And, it's fun! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Wait, am I correctly reading that he worked through Singapore 2A and B just fine and now *all* you're doing are IP and CWP? If that's the case, STOP. Those are the hard problems. I wouldn't make a kid do only the hardest possible problems for his age and level all at once. It'd be like only ever doing Sunday NYT crosswords and never doing a Monday or a Friday even to help you feel successful and keep in practice. If I only ever did Sunday puzzles, I'd think I was stupid, couldn't do crosswords, and I would likely grow to hate them. In general, I think you want to alternate easy math and hard math - drills (or math facts practice games), new learning (and practicing new learning), difficult puzzles and problems - a small dose of each every day. I'm sure there are kids who do okay by just doing "hard" math every day in and out, but I'm pretty sure those kids are rare. In general, I think you do the knock out of the way subjects first and keep them short. I would likely break math up into several different chunks and at least one of those chunks would be something enjoyable - math read alouds, math games, math apps, math manipulative time, etc. ETA: Seconding to set the timer, especially for math drills and hard problems. When the timer dings, wrap up the problem you're on and the math is over. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 Oh guys - thank you so so SOOOO much for all the suggestions and support and ideas and understanding and just everything. I am going to be printing out this thread to remind myself to stop freaking out and the changes that I'll make. Thank you again!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 Farrar - yes, he was done with 2A and 2B workbooks and I thought we were getting ready to move on, but I didn't think he was doing well in Mental math, so I thought it was a good idea to "go back" and just to IP and CWP........ Yes, I will be changing things! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Farrar - yes, he was done with 2A and 2B workbooks and I thought we were getting ready to move on, but I didn't think he was doing well in Mental math, so I thought it was a good idea to "go back" and just to IP and CWP........ Yes, I will be changing things! Many see-saw between the regular tb/wb and the IP/CWP a level down. So, begin 3A tb/wb and use the IP & CWP 2. 3 sessions that are 10-15 a piece are a good target. One challenging word problem will likely fill 10-15min. That means you need to pick and choose. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 It's almost like he is going backwards or something. Every time I think he is getting it, we are going back. Stalling and going backwards can be absolutely, positively normal - particularly in the early grades, but it does happen with older students as well. Kids who have diagrammed complex sentences for years will suddenly look at the word "adverb" in complete puzzlement. Get used to it! A steady diet of Singapore's challenging word problems is enough to make anyone cry, and he is well ahead of grade level. Remember that being intellectually able to do something does not always mean being developmentally ready, and your son is quite young. It's mid-November, so I would move to a holiday math schedule until January - lots of games, review, puzzles, and reading math books like the Sir Cumference series. Pick up a book or two with the words math challenge or math projects in the title, and let him choose a few to try. Then I would start with one or two days a week of book work and move up to three or four, keeping the other activities in the mix (a very short book work period each day could also work). He will still be ahead, and the other stuff is just as valuable if not more so. Sometimes you just need to shake things up for a while. My kids loved "action math" at that age, which was just answering problems in a physical way: I would put sheets of paper on the floor, each with a number on them, and they would hop to the right answer, or they would toss a ball back and forth as they skip counted or answered mental math questions, that type of thing. Writing out problems in chalk on the driveway was fun, and for some reason white boards are magical. Don't forget some practical math. Cooking offers lots of opportunities to practice, and kids are always happy when the day's math lesson is to make cupcakes. Build a birdhouse, do science experiments, measure the room for carpeting. Good luck, and have fun! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Smith Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 My kids, for the most part pick the order of subjects. If they have a subject that annoys them they know to then excuse themselves and go read a book in their room for awhile. They always return in a better mood. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I'm glad you're changing it up! In general, I don't think you need to worry. He hasn't moved backward in math at all. You've just made it a million times harder. In other words, I think a lot of the advice in this thread is good, but also a little off. Change up how you're doing things, get back on track to move forward on a more steady course, throw in the hard problems here and there to keep him sharp, spend a little time trying to reinstill the love of math. Also, just a thought... I think some people feel like unless something is hard that a child isn't learning. But learning doesn't have to be difficult to be good learning. You don't want to make a child always work at frustration level. You want a child to be working at the level where they're comfortable most of the time and be throwing in a little of that frustration level here and there as a challenge - not the main way of schooling. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocassie Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 When my then 7yo was having difficulty with math, I broke it into smaller sections over several days or. Part of the problem was that she hit a concept that she had a difficult time grasping. Trying to do more was counter-productive. It really frustrated her, she wasn't willing to work through it, and the next day it was like starting over again. So I slowed it down, made it first thing (or second), and kept a lesson at about 15 min. Enough to cover an idea and then do a practice problem (or a small part of the problem). The next day I would do a minute or two review, and then pick up where we left off. Then we would play a math game. It took a good month, almost two, to get through the bump, but math wasn't a battle any more. Prior to this, she understood concepts in math very easily and math was her easy/fun subject. She didn't quite know how to deal with the frustration and work needed to understand, and I needed to adjust my teaching to take this into account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Where I am from we did a lot of mental math and to this day I am very very good at doing math functions in my head. I found it so useful, I was really hoping I could do the same for my kids. ETA: which program did you switch to? The mental math, as well as other mental problem solving, is absolutely great to have for all sorts of reasons (e.g., estimating answers in math questions, calculating costs when buying items, promoting brain growth and development). I would definitely continue to encourage its development, but it's a long-term process and it takes work - sometimes hard work. Mixing up math between some mental challenges, along with easier questions, is less exhausting and frustrating for young children (and adults, too!). We do a lot of mental math, geography, logic and other types of questions around the dinner table for fun where we involve the whole family. We switched to Saxon, and we are supplementing with Beast Academy and Art of Problem Solving as well as Math Contests from the University of Waterloo: http://cemc.uwaterloo.ca/contests/past_contests.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OvercomingSchool Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 We always do the hardest things first or second so we have alert minds. If you have a kiddo that struggles to wake up, you might want to wait an hour before doing hard stuff. I have used RightStart Math with all my kids for the first two years. The lessons are short, with lots of variety, but they also have lots of mental math and number understanding. The emphasis is not on writing and worksheets, which I think are real stumbling blocks for lots of younger children. They transitioned quite easily to a combination of Singapore math and Math Mammoth. I'm a proponent of short, sweet, and not too much fine motor control in the early years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 In general, I don't think you need to worry. He hasn't moved backward in math at all. You've just made it a million times harder. This bears repeating. Singapore wasn't kidding when they used the words "intensive" and "challenging" in the titles. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 Well, he wants to start 3A so I might do it very slowly and continue with IP and CWP a bit. I might also move mental math to when we ride in a car or something.... And we really need to get back to playing board games, he loves the Allowance game, so that would be a great start 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I would do it somewhere in the middle, maybe the second subject of the morning, or the first subject right after lunch. We used Singapore, and I loved it. Don't be afraid to try different things regarding it: doing the mental math just twice/week, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 While I'm a fan of do the hard thing first (or second) in the morning, there is a small group that says to do the hardest thing LAST in the day. Sometimes, if you spend so much mental energy & patience on the hard stuff, you have nothing left over for the rest of your day's work. It leads to tears, frustration, and pounding your head against the wall in every other area. Glad the OP has some ideas & is moving forward, but for anyone else reading this thread in the future, if putting it early in the day isn't working, consider putting it last. Sometimes, everything else will be so much easier & the kid will still have patience left for that hard thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imagine.more Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 You've gotten some great advice and have worked through the problem already but I wanted to give some encouragement. For my son we do Singapore 3A Monday-Thursday and then just one CWP on Friday. I tell him those are very challenging ones and for fun to work his brain. We do the Mental Math as scheduled in the IG but no extra. I do have flashcards in case we ever need it. But anyway I think if you did that, just ease into Singapore 3 and save the CWP and Intensive Practice (1 assignment in each) for Fridays as an extra challenge you'll see an improvement in his confidence and attitude. If he does like/need manipulatives I highly recommend the Montessori Stamp Game, we're utilizing that this year and my son loves it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Another thought, especially when they are young and learning to work CWP, get out some 1cm graph paper, the cuisenaire rods, and colored pencils. Work a few together before expecting the child to work them alone. I show them how I draw a picture or diagram to illustrate the problem. This process starts with drawing 5 blue balls and 3 red and gradually morphs into drawing bar diagrams (in various colors b/c that helps the child visualize). Eventually, they will visualize a picture/diagram in their heads as they jot down procedural math. That is the goal. It's a developmental process. I would expect a 7yo to need to see it physically, and need help drawing the picture for complex Challenging Problems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 Good idea, Paula. I usually use the chalk board, bc *I* have always needed to write everything out, but I don't remember being 7, so probably drawing of colored balls might work better. :) Again, thank you guys for getting me into the mind of a 7 yr old. I never considered CWP or IP hard......I just saw them as a continuation of workbooks..... Oh lordy, I need to start saving for therapy for those poor children of mine..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Oh lordy, I need to start saving for therapy for those poor children of mine..... :lol: Don't we all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.