JenniferB Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 The children and I are going through Ancients this year, my favorite time period, so mysterious, and I'm reading aloud from a Children's Bible to revisit the old stories. In my own time, I'm listening to Search the Scriptures on Ancient Faith and digging deeper into the stories. I have fallen in love with an unlikely character, Jacob. I've always been fascinated by this story of a man who tricked his father in order to obtain his blessing, and the wrestling with God in the dessert, and working 14 years to marry Rachel. Why is this character an example in the Bible? Why is this behavior presumably good? Why did God prefer Jacob over Esau? I've been puzzling over this for years every time I have read, re-read or re-encountered this story. It's just in the last year or two that I have really grown to like Jacob, and now I really love him. What I really like about him is his determination to receive a blessing. He seems to know what is good and he will stop at nothing to obtain it, not like in a materialistic way, but of course I see this as a spiritual parallel. The blessing from his father, his inheritance, the blessing from the Angel of the Lord in the desert, Rachel: if you see these as types and shadows of the Kingdom of God then the story is so beautiful and Jacob is a hero of faith. I feel like his story teaches us what Jesus told us, about the violent taking the Kingdom by force. Who's your favorite Bible Character? Why? Do you have a love for any unlikely Bible characters? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 . Why is this character an example in the Bible? Why is this behavior presumably good? I don't think Biblical characters are there to emulate or teach us what is good, necessarily. I think they teach us that God works with imperfections! I like Ruth and Esther. Both must've been scared out of their minds, but did what was necessary and brought good to their people. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I go through phases. ;) Right now it's Abraham because of the way he gave up Isaac. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenniferB Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 . I don't think Biblical characters are there to emulate or teach us what is good, necessarily. I think they teach us that God works with imperfections! I like Ruth and Esther. Both must've been scared out of their minds, but did what was necessary and brought good to their people. I don't know about that. Well of course there are imperfections in many of the Bible characters, I don't disagree with that, but, in the case of Jacob and Esau, Jacob is the favored one. I don't think it was because God wanted to work with his imperfections. It seems like he had some quality that was good. This gave me pause to think about why. I pondered this a long time, for years off and on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenniferB Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 I go through phases. ;) Right now it's Abraham because of the way he gave up Isaac. Tell me more, tell me more.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Joseph, Ruth, Esther, Daniel, and Susannah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I like Peter. He is so enthusiastic and so human and so frail and so strong. Such a real guy. Clearly empowered by the Holy Spirit for just the right time, but not a plaster saint by any means. I feel much the same way about David. They both remind me of Jesus saying, 'Her sins are forgiven, for she loved much.' And of course Esther. For such a time as this. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenniferB Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 Joseph, Ruth, Esther, Daniel, and Susannah. Any "ah-ha" encounters to share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 When I was a child it was King Solomon. Now I love Eve. She always has a bad rep, but she had a strong curiosity and she sought knowledge. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 St. Stephen the Protomartyr, but I can't really claim any deep theological insight that makes that so. It's really just an emotional thing. The religion that I grew up in was very fear-based (like I was talking about in that other thread!) and lots of the imagery in the publications was disturbing. But here's the funny thing: in the children's bible, there was a picture of St. Stephen being stoned, which sounds like a pretty darned disturbing image, and yet I found it to be one of the two most beautiful and comforting images in the whole book. He had both his eyes and his hands upturned to heaven, and just such a look of peace and love on his face. His love for God was such that even when something so horrible was happening to him, he was, I don't know, "transported" I guess. That kind of peace was something I had no experience with, but I recognized it as beyond good. (The other image in that book that I liked was one of the Theotokos, though they didn't call her that of course, also looking up toward heaven with a look of peace and love on her face.) As a young adult I became an atheist, and I stayed that way for many years (almost 20). But when I was an inquirer, the *first* time I visited an Orthodox church, they happened to have an icon of St. Stephen. And I found myself trembling and fighting back tears, trying not to make a fool of myself in front of a bunch of strangers because I was *already* nervous and self-conscious, but that image just moved me indescribably. I guess because it's an image of such complete faith, such profound trust, such peace. I don't know, I'm not articulating this well, but I love St. Stephen. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teannika Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 At the moment I'm really into Job and appreciating what he is going through and saying on a human level. He is someone to relate to in moments where bad thing after bad thing has happened. Some statements from when he curses the day he was born: "Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived." "Why died I not from the womb? Why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?" "Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light." But my favourite quote is near the start when his wife asks him to curse God. He has already fallen down and worshipped God after all the bad stuff went down, but then he answers his wife here: 'Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die. But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.' I love Job's perspective and hope to maintain the same attitude if it comes to a moment of great suffering. This is very important to me. I want to praise God always, in everything. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenniferB Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 I guess because it's an image of such complete faith, such profound trust, such peace. I don't know, I'm not articulating this well, but I love St. Stephen. Thank you for sharing such a special connection. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenniferB Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 At the moment I'm really into Job and appreciating what he is going through and saying on a human level. He is someone to relate to in moments where bad thing after bad thing has happened. Some statements from when he curses the day he was born: "Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived." "Why died I not from the womb? Why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?" "Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light." But my favourite quote is near the start when his wife asks him to curse God. He has already fallen down and worshipped God after all the bad stuff went down, but then he answers his wife here: 'Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die. But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.' I love Job's perspective and hope to maintain the same attitude if it comes to a moment of great suffering. This is very important to me. I want to praise God always, in everything. So beautiful. Thank you for sharing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Tell me more, tell me more.... I just love that after he waited so long for his precious son that he offered him up as a sacrifice as soon as he was asked. He really seemed to have an understanding of who God was and what his role was in relation to Him. Isaac was amazing in that story too. He wasn't a little helpless boy like the children's Bibles portray him. He was a grown man and was seemingly willing to be sacrificed because God deserves whatever he wants. At the moment I'm really into Job and appreciating what he is going through and saying on a human level. He is someone to relate to in moments where bad thing after bad thing has happened. Some statements from when he curses the day he was born: "Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived." "Why died I not from the womb? Why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?" "Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light." But my favourite quote is near the start when his wife asks him to curse God. He has already fallen down and worshipped God after all the bad stuff went down, but then he answers his wife here: 'Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die. But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.' I love Job's perspective and hope to maintain the same attitude if it comes to a moment of great suffering. This is very important to me. I want to praise God always, in everything. One of my favorite parts of Job is in the very beginning after he loses everything and falls on his knees and praises God. He's a better man than I. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamiof5 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 When I was a child it was King Solomon. Now I love Eve. She always has a bad rep, but she had a strong curiosity and she sought knowledge.Not sure she sought knowledge? She could have wanted power, or wanted to be "like God"... no idea what her reasoning behind it was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamiof5 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 At the moment I'm really into Job and appreciating what he is going through and saying on a human level. He is someone to relate to in moments where bad thing after bad thing has happened. Some statements from when he curses the day he was born: "Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived." "Why died I not from the womb? Why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?" "Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light." But my favourite quote is near the start when his wife asks him to curse God. He has already fallen down and worshipped God after all the bad stuff went down, but then he answers his wife here: 'Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die. But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.' I love Job's perspective and hope to maintain the same attitude if it comes to a moment of great suffering. This is very important to me. I want to praise God always, in everything. We just read Job this week!! Kids and I loved remembering his story. Thanks for sharing this :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamiof5 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 The children and I are going through Ancients this year, my favorite time period, so mysterious, and I'm reading aloud from a Children's Bible to revisit the old stories. In my own time, I'm listening to Search the Scriptures on Ancient Faith and digging deeper into the stories. I have fallen in love with an unlikely character, Jacob. I've always been fascinated by this story of a man who tricked his father in order to obtain his blessing, and the wrestling with God in the dessert, and working 14 years to marry Rachel. Why is this character an example in the Bible? Why is this behavior presumably good? Why did God prefer Jacob over Esau? I've been puzzling over this for years every time I have read, re-read or re-encountered this story. It's just in the last year or two that I have really grown to like Jacob, and now I really love him. What I really like about him is his determination to receive a blessing. He seems to know what is good and he will stop at nothing to obtain it, not like in a materialistic way, but of course I see this as a spiritual parallel. The blessing from his father, his inheritance, the blessing from the Angel of the Lord in the desert, Rachel: if you see these as types and shadows of the Kingdom of God then the story is so beautiful and Jacob is a hero of faith. I feel like his story teaches us what Jesus told us, about the violent taking the Kingdom by force. Who's your favorite Bible Character? Why? Do you have a love for any unlikely Bible characters? What a fantastic thread!!! Thanks for starting it. Not sure I can pick one person. Abraham, willing to sacrifice his only son for his love for God? I find that so amazing. Job, praise the Lord in the good and in the bad, what a beautiful message! Jonah (who was eaten by the whale or big fish when trying to escape from God, not wanting to go to the folks in Nineveh as the Lord had instructed him), we can't escape from God, He is everywhere and knows all our moves and thoughts. Moses, have always loved his story and how he saved the Israelites from the Egyptians... the seven plagues in Egypt, parting of the Red Sea, the manna in the desert, etc...just so interesting! How can I forget Noah and the Ark? An example of obedience to God, even if people think you have lost your mind (can totally relate to present times, when people have just forgotten God and we, "the religious ones", are the nutty ones, obsessed, judgmental etc...). Anyway, this are just some that come to mind :) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 One of my fav verses is in Job--Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him. I discovered that in the midst of family turmoil, and it has stayed with me. No matter what happens, what I fear or what I learn or am confused by...even if it seems God is not good, I will trust in the truth that He is. Peter is actually huge for me, too--named a son after him, and I hope he will one day have that sort of faith. Peter was so real, so human, and so very transformed and informed by his relationship to Jesus. Amazing. This is such a good thread, Jennifer. :001_smile: 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 The story of Joseph has always been my favorite. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 The story of Joseph has always been my favorite. Indeed. "You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good." 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Not sure she sought knowledge? She could have wanted power, or wanted to be "like God"... no idea what her reasoning behind it was? Well, knowledge is power. Wanting power does not automatically = bad or evil intent. As for wanting to be "like God" don't most Christians want to be "like God"? Don't Christians aim to walk in the footsteps of Jesus and base their behavior and decisions on what Jesus would do? That is wanting to be "like God" and this is considered a noble and worthy goal. It's not wanting to *be* God but to be like God. LDS, do believe they can become a god and rule over their own planets. That's definitely wanting to be like God. I think Eve had courage. Our decisions and actions do not always have the best outcome, but without courage to step outside bounds many good outcomes would never happen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Well, knowledge is power. Wanting power does not automatically = bad or evil intent. As for wanting to be "like God" don't most Christians want to be "like God"? Don't Christians aim to walk in the footsteps of Jesus and base their behavior and decisions on what Jesus would do? That is wanting to be "like God" and this is considered a noble and worthy goal. It's not wanting to *be* God but to be like God. LDS, do believe they can become a god and rule over their own planets. That's definitely wanting to be like God. I think Eve had courage. Our decisions and actions do not always have the best outcome, but without courage to step outside bounds many good outcomes would never happen. Just a comment--I see Eve as wanting to be like God in "role," not in "character." That is pride, because it says, "I don't need God nor do I acknowledge him as bigger/greater etc. than me." I think that's the rub with Eve. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) nm Edited December 16, 2015 by w11 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I don't know how accurate it is, but I heard somewhere...who knows where...this about Jacob and Esau. Esau was rejecting the faith of his father. But the truth of the gospel needed to be passed down to the next generation. Things were passed down orally back then. We don't have writing until Moses. Jacob did not reject the teachings of his father. He wanted to carry the torch. Esau belitted the blessing of the firstborn, so Jacob took it (stew story). And when it was time to pass down the blessing for the next generation, Jacob took that too (sheepskin hair story), because Jacob could be entrusted with carrying on the gospel. He would teach it to his son. Esau wouldn't. God chose the son who would do the work to receive the blessing. Not sure how accurate that is, and it's all coming from my dim memory, but things started to look a lot clearer to me when I realized that while Jacob "stole" the blessings from Esau, Esau didn't really want the responsibility anyway and wasn't the one to carry on the gospel. He wouldn't have done it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamiof5 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Well, knowledge is power. Wanting power does not automatically = bad or evil intent. As for wanting to be "like God" don't most Christians want to be "like God"? Don't Christians aim to walk in the footsteps of Jesus and base their behavior and decisions on what Jesus would do? That is wanting to be "like God" and this is considered a noble and worthy goal. It's not wanting to *be* God but to be like God. LDS, do believe they can become a god and rule over their own planets. That's definitely wanting to be like God. I think Eve had courage. Our decisions and actions do not always have the best outcome, but without courage to step outside bounds many good outcomes would never happen. Both her and Adam already had lots of knowledge, it is my understanding that they were incredibly smart, more than what we can imagine...knowledge was just given to them, they didn't have to work hard to get it. And I totally agree in all of us wanting to be more God like, definitely nothing wrong with that. However, in my humble opinion I am not sure I can agree with her having courage. I mean, she was given everything, was told not to do something. As humans it's way easier for us to sin than to make the right choices (unfortunately). I don't know... when I think of Eve just courage doesn't come to mind, if anything I see all of us in her, who, knowing what was the right thing to do, her human nature took over and she made a foolish decision. If I am thinking of courage many other names come to mind (like Mother Mary), but definitely not Eve. Just my perception. Really interesting to read how Bible characters represent different traits for everyone :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I always had a soft spot for Martha. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Daniel - torn from his family and country at a fairly young age, but had his values and faith and stuck with them regardless of what was around him. Add to that, he likely studied the science of his day. ;) He shows us what we can be regardless of how life hits us. David - tough and ready to do pretty much anything, anointed future king, then spent years on the run. He had to have been wondering if his youth experience and the anointing, etc, was "real," but he didn't give up or give in. Later when he went astray he fell on his knees and confessed. In general, he kept his values even loving the relative of Saul who survived. He loved his kids - even when they turned against him. He seems like such a "real" person with his highs and lows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKim Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Peter because he was so human. He had a quick temper, a big mouth, and great passion. The Lord loved him and chose him in spite of his flaws. Or, actually, He used those "flaws" for good. I can relate to Peter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsMommy Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I love the story of Jonah. Not the Jonah-in-the-fish part so much as the Jonah-and-the-vine part. When he's sitting there whining at God...well, it's just so me. I know I do that, even if I'm not proud of it. But even though Jonah was disobedient and whiny, God still had a plan for him and didn't give up on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenaj Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I always had a soft spot for Martha. Yes! I've always felt she gets such a bum rap - probably because I am definitely a Martha-type. I understand that she needed the reminder from Jesus to slow down, sit and learn because I always need that reminder, too, but on the other hand, she wouldn't have had to be rushing around if a few others had pitched in just a bit :) I always have wondered if part of the conversation wasn't recorded . . . the part where Jesus said, "Martha, you need to sit down and listen". Then, "Mary, why don't you go work on supper for a while. I'm going to talk to Martha". LOL! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Joseph, Ruth, Esther, Daniel, and Susannah. Joseph, integrity, internal conflict, abandonment and abuse, contentment and servitude, faith, a leader out of the least of these. Ruth, commitment, living in lands foreign and amongst people as the outsider, caring for extended family blood related or not. Esther, faith, family, sacrifice, foreigner/minority in the land and amongst the people, leader from the least of these, wisdom. Daniel, integrity, standing for ones beliefs without trampling on the beliefs of others, wisdom, faith, foreigner in the land. Susannah, wisdom, justice, and care. Yes, there is a running theme for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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