iamonlyone Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I had not heard of Housing First and found this approach instructive and hopeful. Are some of you involved with this program in your communities? http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/02/housing-first-solution-to-homelessness-utah 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Smith Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I know we do a version of that where I live. To me knowledge a lot of them instead of a apartment to themselves they get a group home or sorts. It is about a 2 minute walk from my house. Again (To my knowledge) they found the group home set up better for some people since they were also able to easily give them more assistance with meals and other things on a day to day basis. Those who have apartments are the ones who can handle those things by themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 ladybugs Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I have heard of NYC wanting to get surplus ships (military) and turning them into housing for the homeless. The problem I see with any of this is what agency in their right mind is going to allow drug addicts to do drugs in their facility? Especially illegal drugs! There is a percentage of people that have no choice but to be homeless because they do not WANT to be clean/sober/whatever and they are homeless. This is often where they either live or die because of the drugs. You can have all the programs in the world, but you can not make a person be clean, and let them have free will. Just can't happen. The only way you can do that is to arrest them, but that opens another can of worms. Programs like this can help many, but not all homelessness. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamonlyone Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 That's what I found so interesting in the article. They don't require residents to get clean. I would have imagined that would cause all kinds of crime and disorder. But the statistics for the programs show the majority of residents successfully stay and that overall costs to the community decrease. At one point in the article it stated that having a home actually helps provide stability for those who are struggling with mental illness, drug addiction, etc. I found the whole concept refreshing, as I have learned (through this very board :001_smile:) a lot about homelessness and the problems of what to do for those who are mentally unable to live alone and can't/won't progress through a typical homeless shelter/halfway house type of program. It seems, in this program, that there are services provided for those who are willing, but that the focus of Housing First is to address the homelessness first instead of having requirements people must meet before they can be housed. ETA: They do house only the "long-term" homeless. So, I don't know if that makes a difference with the types of people they serve. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Yup. I've heard an addiction specialist say that kicking someone out of addiction treatment because they display symptoms of addiction (aka, using drugs) is ridiculous. And yes, haivng a stable home is what allows many to find a job, get off drugs, etc. It's person first. It's saying, you are a human being, and even if you have an addiction, we still want you to be safe. Stay here, feel safe, then work on your addiction. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjzimmer1 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I have heard of NYC wanting to get surplus ships (military) and turning them into housing for the homeless. The problem I see with any of this is what agency in their right mind is going to allow drug addicts to do drugs in their facility? Especially illegal drugs! There is a percentage of people that have no choice but to be homeless because they do not WANT to be clean/sober/whatever and they are homeless. This is often where they either live or die because of the drugs. You can have all the programs in the world, but you can not make a person be clean, and let them have free will. Just can't happen. The only way you can do that is to arrest them, but that opens another can of worms. Programs like this can help many, but not all homelessness. Did you read the article? The whole point of the program is that get those people who have chronic problems in these areas and put them in housing anyways. Let them do their drugs if they wish but offer them an alternative if they wish but either way they have a home. The result is that they use far less tax supported services. The goal isn't to make them clean or even functioning members of society, the goal is to save taxpayer money. The unexpected result is that many after years of chronic problems do finally get themselves turned around but first they need a stable homelife and then they can work on their other issues. A you are right it probably won't cut homelessness 100% but lets face it the current system doesn't work either. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 ladybugs Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I have a hard time with the articles that are too much "look at poor Sally!" type of articles. They loose my attention rather quickly. Perhaps I am odd. But I also like my sports the same way. What you are saying is they assume that because a person is homeless, they went to drugs, when in fact more often then not (though I have no stats to back this up) it is the other way around. People end up on the streets because they used drugs. Giving them a home isn't going to help them as that isn't what is what put them there in the first place. In fact I imagine in some people it would do the opposite, and enable them to continue to use drugs longer before hitting bottom. Look I am not just looking at it from the outside. My father was addicted to Meth and a few other drugs (gateway drug for him was beer). My father is clean and alive today because he woke up in a gutter and decided to live rather then die. I assure you, and I bet you dollars to donuts that if I called him up right now he would say the same, that if he had a room to stay in he would have used drugs longer. WAIT: I just called my father and he did say that he would have used drugs longer. What woke him up was waking up cold in a gutter and having to make that decision to live. While he was getting help, he tried to get his cousin (who was homeless) help and he couldn't help him because his cousin WANTED to be homeless. There is a large amount of people that WANT to be homeless. You can't help them by giving them a room. Giving people homes is not the answer for all homeless people. There are some that that can help with. We have (last check) emergency services for people who ask for help from the government. That could likely be expanded if needed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 People who don't want the help won't be forced to take a room. But it IS working in several places in the US, is costing less money, and yes, some people may stay on drugs longer. But others may do it less long. Obviously, if a night inthe gutter solved drug problems we'd have a lot less homeless addicts. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I have a hard time with the articles that are too much "look at poor Sally!" type of articles. They loose my attention rather quickly. Perhaps I am odd. But I also like my sports the same way. What you are saying is they assume that because a person is homeless, they went to drugs, when in fact more often then not (though I have no stats to back this up) it is the other way around. People end up on the streets because they used drugs. Giving them a home isn't going to help them as that isn't what is what put them there in the first place. In fact I imagine in some people it would do the opposite, and enable them to continue to use drugs longer before hitting bottom. Look I am not just looking at it from the outside. My father was addicted to Meth and a few other drugs (gateway drug for him was beer). My father is clean and alive today because he woke up in a gutter and decided to live rather then die. I assure you, and I bet you dollars to donuts that if I called him up right now he would say the same, that if he had a room to stay in he would have used drugs longer. WAIT: I just called my father and he did say that he would have used drugs longer. What woke him up was waking up cold in a gutter and having to make that decision to live. While he was getting help, he tried to get his cousin (who was homeless) help and he couldn't help him because his cousin WANTED to be homeless. There is a large amount of people that WANT to be homeless. You can't help them by giving them a room. Giving people homes is not the answer for all homeless people. There are some that that can help with. We have (last check) emergency services for people who ask for help from the government. That could likely be expanded if needed. While I respect your love for your Dad and personal experience, you have a limited understanding of mental illness, addiction, recovery, and chronic homelessness. Requiring them to be clean before providing shelter is no different than requiring them to be heart disease free, cancer free, diabetes free. 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I have a hard time with the articles that are too much "look at poor Sally!" type of articles. They loose my attention rather quickly. Perhaps I am odd. But I also like my sports the same way. What you are saying is they assume that because a person is homeless, they went to drugs, when in fact more often then not (though I have no stats to back this up) it is the other way around. People end up on the streets because they used drugs. Giving them a home isn't going to help them as that isn't what is what put them there in the first place. In fact I imagine in some people it would do the opposite, and enable them to continue to use drugs longer before hitting bottom. Look I am not just looking at it from the outside. My father was addicted to Meth and a few other drugs (gateway drug for him was beer). My father is clean and alive today because he woke up in a gutter and decided to live rather then die. I assure you, and I bet you dollars to donuts that if I called him up right now he would say the same, that if he had a room to stay in he would have used drugs longer. WAIT: I just called my father and he did say that he would have used drugs longer. What woke him up was waking up cold in a gutter and having to make that decision to live. While he was getting help, he tried to get his cousin (who was homeless) help and he couldn't help him because his cousin WANTED to be homeless. There is a large amount of people that WANT to be homeless. You can't help them by giving them a room. Giving people homes is not the answer for all homeless people. There are some that that can help with. We have (last check) emergency services for people who ask for help from the government. That could likely be expanded if needed. You should take the time to read the article. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'm sitting here in my government-provided house (military) thinking it'd be pretty rotten if they wouldn't let my kids and I live here because I am awfully attached to my legal drugs//productivity-killing, health-diminishing wastes-of-time of choice.... But I digress Some people need to feel like an animal before they get clean (awesome sauce, 3 ladybug's dad!) but some people need to feel like a human being with dignity to get clean. Some people will never, ever get clean no matter what. The question (besides looking at it economically) is what can WE...society...live with ourselves for having done. I couldn't live with myself if I looked at every addict on the streets and said "he just needs to REALLY hit rock bottom and then he'll bootstrap himself up out of the proverbial gutter." And I am disgusted with societal systems that put that attitude into place. What I can get behind and feel alright with myself for supporting, are programs that aim to keep in mind that people...even criminals, even people with mental health issues, even people with addictions are people first. And that work within a paradigm of all human beings having an intrinsic dignity that their culture can either AFFIRM or DENY. So. Great. Yes. House the homeless. Economic productivity is not the whole measure of a wo/man. And those that aren't so good at it still deserve to be out of the elements for God's sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I know several people who are homeless because they won't give up their dogs. It's pretty interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyD Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'm involved with our neighborhood association (not a HOA, just a local volunteer group) and representatives from the Housing First program in my city came and made a presentation about a year ago. It was unbelievably impressive, and the evidence they had to back up their approach was just stunning. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I like the emphasis on housing first. I think our current approach to human services is too fractured and isn't holistic in its approach. As a result, the effects are limited. I once heard a priest interviewed on NPR. He was in charge of a "wet house," for alcoholics. When asked if he was worried if others were taking advantage of the program, his response was along the line of "No one can take advantage of you if you are giving it away." That made a huge impression on me. 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I often wonder if we would have so many homeless if boarding homes would be legal again. I think we would though...there are just so many that dont want the responsibility of doing what it takes to improve their condition beyond shantytown. So many that you think it wouldn't make a GIGANTIC difference? What about all the homeless veterans right now? Almost a quarter of the total homeless population, 22.5 million humans. Presumably they weren't shirking their responsibilities (to whom?) until after they served Sammie, everyone's favorite fun uncle, right? I hear you and agree with you that it sucks to see ppl who could improve, but don't. I just think MOST homeless ppl have understandable reasons for their predicament. From the second link (and I reckon a lot of this holds true for non vets): Primary causes of homelessness among veterans are:Lack of income due to limited education and lack of transferable skills from military to civilian life (especially true of younger veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan) Combat-related physical health issues and disabilities Combat-related mental health issues and disabilities Substance abuse problems that interfere with job retention Weak social networks due to problems adjusting to civilian life Lack of services Primary causes of homelessness among veterans are: Primary causes of homelessness among veterans are: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 What! on earth is my quote thingie doing?! Sorry, I can't fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamonlyone Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 This topic has the potential to spin off in many directions. What struck me about the article was that it seemed like a fresh approach to me and, even more, a statistically successful one! When I have read board discussions about homelessness (especially related to mental illness) I have wondered what could be done. It especially impacted me when I read posts here about people with loved one who have unmedicated bipolar or other issues and about how so many people fall through the cracks. I also read with interest the many perspectives about the ramifications of closing mental health asylums and how some of those residents became homeless. So, this article cheered and encouraged me that there is an out-of-the-box solution that in some cities seems to be very workable—even affordable! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I often wonder if we would have so many homeless if boarding homes would be legal again. I think we would though...there are just so many that dont want the responsibility of doing what it takes to improve their condition beyond shantytown. That didn't take long. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I know several people who are homeless because they won't give up their dogs. It's pretty interesting. Their dogs are their family and love them unconditionally. Who can blame them? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Their dogs are their family and love them unconditionally. Who can blame them? :iagree: When you adopt an animal, you make a commitment to care for it until it dies. Not until it becomes inconvenient. Some of us take that very seriously. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Their dogs are their family and love them unconditionally. Who can blame them? I get that, and also they are to an extent their protection. But there is this one case, really a mess. The woman and her 10 YO daughter fled an abusive father. They can't get into any housing (there is a lot of it around for that kind of family situation) because of the dog. Now, I'm an softie who stayed in a house 4 years longer than I should have because of an elderly cat. But if it was between the cat and my kid, I think I'd have to pick the kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenneinCA Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 In the SF Bay Area there is an extreme shortage of affordable housing. Property owners can afford to be choosy when picking renters because there are far more people that want to rent than there are properties to rent. So property owners choose renters that have good credit histories and no pets. Because they can. This is a supply and demand problem and nothing short of increasing supply will make it better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I went into that article very skeptical. But I think it's pretty awesome. I'm sure in every area, things would have to be tweaked and my biggest concern would be the safety of everyone in the housing. But having security and social services ON site sound as if it would work. (Did the article mention security?) Thanks for sharing this. I'd love to actually go see how this works up close! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 In the SF Bay Area there is an extreme shortage of affordable housing. Property owners can afford to be choosy when picking renters because there are far more people that want to rent than there are properties to rent. So property owners choose renters that have good credit histories and no pets. Because they can. This is a supply and demand problem and nothing short of increasing supply will make it better. In this case, though, they could probably get into Next Door or Family Supportive Housing or InnVision or CityTeam, but not with a dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I get that, and also they are to an extent their protection. But there is this one case, really a mess. The woman and her 10 YO daughter fled an abusive father. They can't get into any housing (there is a lot of it around for that kind of family situation) because of the dog. Now, I'm an softie who stayed in a house 4 years longer than I should have because of an elderly cat. But if it was between the cat and my kid, I think I'd have to pick the kid. Perhaps she's not choosing between her kid and her dog. Perhaps choosing the kid means choosing the dog. *shrug* I wouldn't expect a traumatised kid to prioritise a house over a dog. Sometimes life doesn't offer any good enough choices. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamonlyone Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 6packofun, I'm not sure about security in the Utah model. I did notice it said that doors to the outside are locked and people have to be buzzed into the building. At a version of the "housing first" model in Washington DC, "security is provided by a combination of security officers, remotely monitored cameras, and secured door access." Here is the link to that article: http://www.leoadaly.com/about/press/leo-a-daly-and-studio-twenty-seven-architecture-honored-for-la-casa-permanent-supportive-housing-in-washington-dc/ I agree with you that I didn't have high expectations when I saw the first article but was encouraged by what I read. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamonlyone Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 Plum Crazy: "PSA we're making bags that have socks, heat warmers, aspirin packs, jerky (which apparently is a prized item among the homeless) and other goodies to keep in the car so the kids have something to give the homeless while we're at the stoplight. A smile also goes a long way. They are people, too. They aren't all scammers and druggies." Plum Crazy, I love that idea! I have been thinking about buying gift cards for McDonalds or a local grocery store to carry with me to give, but then I have thought it might be hard for some people to travel to the destinations and get groceries home—especially in winter. Maybe I could tuck the gift cards in a care package like you described. Thanks for sharing! ETA: Just realized I said "get groceries home." I'm thinking of those I see who aren't necessarily homeless in my town but have signs asking for work and/or help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I get that, and also they are to an extent their protection. But there is this one case, really a mess. The woman and her 10 YO daughter fled an abusive father. They can't get into any housing (there is a lot of it around for that kind of family situation) because of the dog. Now, I'm an softie who stayed in a house 4 years longer than I should have because of an elderly cat. But if it was between the cat and my kid, I think I'd have to pick the kid. That's a hard case. There need to be more options for people in that situation. :( I commend you for staying in your house for the sake of your cat! That is truly wonderful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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