Can we talk birth control (again)? (cc)

[Diana in OR]

Conceptrol Gel. We used it off and on for several years with good results.

[PinkInTheBlue]

Conceptrol Gel. We used it off and on for several years with good results.

 

Diana, I looked this one up and drugs.com said this about it: "Studies have shown that when spermicides are used alone, pregnancy usually occurs in 21 of each 100 women during the first year of spermicide use ." Did you guys use this alone or with something? Messy? Aggravating?

 

We must make a decision here and (sadly) we are finished having babies but I don't love the idea of either of us having a procedure. Not because we might change our mind but...well, because it does involve cutting. :) I really don't care for cxndoms and I'm not being consistent on my temps.

 

I'd love something simple, non-hormonal and doesn't prevent implantation. I know our best bet and best fit is a clip. It just gives me the yuckies thinking and the finality of if makes my baby-making-days-are-over blues even worse for now. :) Maybe later if I can get past it.

[Lovedtodeath]

I only read about half the replies.

 

We used a diaphram for many years with good results. I got pg with DD when we purposely did not use it only one time. There are certain positions that make the diaphram uncomfortable, but it is not often and it is not that uncomfortable really.

 

I was told by my Dr. that the new IUD has a primary BC method of preventing the eggs from dropping low enough and preventing the sperm from swimming. There are also IUD's that use hormones to prevent the egg from dropping altogether. But if you consider BCP abortive, then the IUD, at the least, is not any better than the pills.

 

Several women that I know can use the vaginal ring, but could not use any other hormonal forms of BC.

 

The pills messed me up really really bad and some women cannot fully recover as there are so many hormones in the body that are thrown out of whack. Not just the female hormones, but all of them.

 

So the bottom line is... I vote for the diaphram. LOL

 

We now use vaginal contraceptive film alone on non-fertile days and together with c*ndoms on fertile days. DH gets the big V this week. I feel that permanent methods have many factors. Pregnancy makes me deathly ill and I get really bad post-partum depression, so I personally feel that factors in.

[Lovedtodeath]

http://nostork.com/index.htm

 

Jessica, the essure procedure involves no incisions and the pain (which is for 1-2 days) is about the same as when you have cramping on your period.

 

We are going with the V because it is less expensive.

[Reya]

This post is pretty muddled at this point. I guess what I'm asking is, w/in the framework I've described, is there anything other than c*ndoms I should consider? TY!

 

 

If we decide, 6 months post-baby, that we're not ready to think of another yet, I'm getting an IUD. I like the idea of Essure, but I'm not committing myself to not having anymore until I'm 35 or 40.

[PinkInTheBlue]

http://nostork.com/index.htm

 

Jessica, the essure procedure involves no incisions and the pain (which is for 1-2 days) is about the same as when you have cramping on your period.

 

We are going with the V because it is less expensive.

 

Carmen, do you mind me asking a couple of questions? (of course since I'm writing this I have to go ahead and write it anyway! lol) What has the dr told you guys to expect for recovery? How long will it take? Are you paying cash for it? If so, about how much is a V? Anything else you'd tell someone who has no idea and is researching such things that you have learned along the way? :)

 

Thank you!

[lighthouseacademy]

We use c*ndoms coupled with NFP- so if we want to have relations during a fertile time, we can, but then we also know the risks. We have felt for our family that NFP was sufficient at times, LAM was great, and then right now when I need to spend time healing, NFP coupled with c*ndoms works for us because of our current circumstances. As for the short cycle, you can work on lengthening your cycle by balancing your hormones. I have found that after each child, my cycle has been a bit wonky and taken some time to even back out again- but I have used Red raspberry leaf tea and Dr. Christopher's Hormonal Changease and Wheat Germ oil with success to lengthen my cycle to 28 days instead of 21.

[Lovedtodeath]

We do not know what to tell DD when Daddy comes home from the doctor, any help there? She knows about birth control, I just tell her that Mommy puts those in my vagina and it keeps the daddy cell from meeting the mommy cell and making a baby. She does not know that the daddy cell actually gets to the mommy cell through the vagina. She did not ask, and I did not tell. What she does know is that when chickens have a rooster live in the barn with them, there are chicks in the eggs, and it works the same way for people.

 

Carmen, do you mind me asking a couple of questions? (of course since I'm writing this I have to go ahead and write it anyway! lol) What has the dr told you guys to expect for recovery? How long will it take? Are you paying cash for it? If so, about how much is a V? Anything else you'd tell someone who has no idea and is researching such things that you have learned along the way? :)

 

Thank you!

 

Yes, we are paying cash. It is usually $700-800. You have to ask for the discount. They initially told me $1200. Recovery is anywhere from 24 hours to 3 days. No lifting. Ice packs are used for the first 24 hours and as needed afterwards.

 

There is a no-incision Vas, but after researching how it is done, I really don't think it is any better for pain or recovery.

 

My cousin and I agree that if recovery was 2 weeks it would still be worth it. After all it takes us months to recover from childbirth. (Had to throw that in.):D Feel free to PM me with any more questions. My DH will chime in too if you want.

[Diana in OR]

Diana, I looked this one up and drugs.com said this about it: "Studies have shown that when spermicides are used alone, pregnancy usually occurs in 21 of each 100 women during the first year of spermicide use ." Did you guys use this alone or with something? Messy? Aggravating?

 

We must make a decision here and (sadly) we are finished having babies but I don't love the idea of either of us having a procedure. Not because we might change our mind but...well, because it does involve cutting. :) I really don't care for cxndoms and I'm not being consistent on my temps.

 

I'd love something simple, non-hormonal and doesn't prevent implantation. I know our best bet and best fit is a clip. It just gives me the yuckies thinking and the finality of if makes my baby-making-days-are-over blues even worse for now. :) Maybe later if I can get past it.

 

We used Conceptrol alone. I know it worked b/c when I stopped using it (on purpose) I got pg with each of my boys within a couple months. I didn't think it was messy. It has an applicator, much like a ta*pon.

 

I wonder if that 21% statistic has more to do with incorrect usage than with the product itself failing.

[KS_]

We used Conceptrol alone. I know it worked b/c when I stopped using it (on purpose) I got pg with each of my boys within a couple months. I didn't think it was messy. It has an applicator, much like a ta*pon.

 

I wonder if that 21% statistic has more to do with incorrect usage than with the product itself failing.

 

The foam is similar - there's an applicator similar to a tampon. It was suggested to me when I was first married (by a gal who worked at the District Health office) that using 2 applicators full was even more effective than one (as the directions state to use), and that's generally what I do. I bet the statistics do have more to do with incorrect usage - with the foam at least, you do have to pay attention to filling the applicator - occasionally if you hold the applicator on the foam canister a little off, you can get air in the applicator, which makes it appear fuller than it is.

[BlsdMama]

Mama,

 

I can only tell you our random and muddled thoughts. :P

 

We don't believe hormonal birth control to be biblical because it brings about conditions (thinning of the uterine layer to prevent implantation of a fertilized egg/baby, control of hormones to help "flush" the uterus, etc.)

 

We're not big on permanent things because of the reasons you've mentioned and for serious health implications for whichever of us would do it.

 

For us, we finally decided that if we're going to prevent any more babies (and we're not at that point yet) then we will follow Toni Weschler's book Take Charge of Your Fertility. It is NOT the old fashioned "family planning" of long ago. It's an easy, bit more technical, but not scarily so, to recognize the signs your body gives. It's WAY more than temping, but WAY less work than what it seems. I never realized my body is so, well, obvious, kwim?

 

You wouldn't have to be abstinent during times of fertility, but that is when you could utilize barrier methods if you chose, rather than using them all the time... ick.

 

And, lol, I've had that *very* contented feeling after the last three. It never lasted past about 6-9 months, a year at most. I'm at that point now, where I just feel very cosy where I'm at and can't really imagine another baby. But neither can I imagine preventing another baby and telling God, "Thanks, but no thanks." And as an FYI, it didn't get harder with more. :) A bit more chaotic, but not HARDER. A lot more fun too.

[PameliaSue]

There is a no-incision Vas, but after researching how it is done, I really don't think it is any better for pain or recovery.

 

My dh had the no-incision V and a friend of ours had the normal one about 4 months later. My dh definitely was up and around sooner post procedure than our friend.

My dh went extreme though with resting and did actual bed/couch rest for 2 and a half full days before even trying to get back to life. That may have been a contributing factor.

The whole point of the non-incision is that it heals faster, no stitches needed and I believe it must because we couldn't even FIND where he had been open up 24hrs later!!!

[LisaKinVA]

Well, came back from my b/c chat with our midwife. She said that in all honesty, the IUD would be best for me.

 

I asked her about how it works, and here's where it gets sticky. They aren't really sure.

 

They believe it changes the mucous which prevents the eggs from moving and the sperm from moving freely... thus preventing fertilization. It creates a "hostile environment" for pregnancy. They think that it would also prevent implantation, but again, aren't sure about this either :confused:

 

The side effects are cramping (usually only immediately following putting in the IUD), and the possibility of heavy periods.

 

I've got some more research to do -- but apparently, this is one of the most popular forms of non-hormonal b/c, especially for women in their 40's+ DH and I will be talking some more about it, I'm sure.

 

I was told as a young girl, that the IUD basically forced an abortion each month... but now I'm wondering if that was just ummm propaganda.

[PameliaSue]

http://nostork.com/index.htm

 

Jessica, the essure procedure involves no incisions and the pain (which is for 1-2 days) is about the same as when you have cramping on your period.

 

We looked into essure before settling on dh having a V.

Anyone considering this should REALLY research it.

They use nickel coils so if you are allergic to nickel than you are out. They work by CAUSING scar tissue to form in the fallopian tubes. And once you have them there are certain procedures that you can NO LONGER have because of the nickel. They developed it on women scheduled for hysterectomies.

It is a newer method so there is only 8 years of clinical data available on long term effects. I did find a forum of women who had had it done and just reading what they had to say made me decide that I was NOT going to have it done. I put my foot down at this point and told dh if he wanted a permanent solution then he would have to undergo the procedure himself.

Finally it is PERMANENT! No going back.

[Lovedtodeath]

I was told as a young girl, that the IUD basically forced an abortion each month... but now I'm wondering if that was just ummm propaganda.

Thank you for more IUD info... My understanding is that the older IUD only prevented implantation, but the newer ones do not rely on that. In addition, the only time fertilization can occur is the first day of your period. I have no idea if that is correct. It is just what I was told.

[teachermom_7]

Well, came back from my b/c chat with our midwife. She said that in all honesty, the IUD would be best for me.

 

I asked her about how it works, and here's where it gets sticky. They aren't really sure.

 

They believe it changes the mucous which prevents the eggs from moving and the sperm from moving freely... thus preventing fertilization. It creates a "hostile environment" for pregnancy. They think that it would also prevent implantation, but again, aren't sure about this either :confused:

 

The side effects are cramping (usually only immediately following putting in the IUD), and the possibility of heavy periods.

 

I've got some more research to do -- but apparently, this is one of the most popular forms of non-hormonal b/c, especially for women in their 40's+ DH and I will be talking some more about it, I'm sure.

 

I was told as a young girl, that the IUD basically forced an abortion each month... but now I'm wondering if that was just ummm propaganda.

 

 

Depending on which one you're going with, you can get brochures that go into detail on exactly how the work.

 

The Paraguard (copper) ones work by killing the sp*rm before implantation is ever allowed to occur. With every b/c method, there is always that "slight" risk of something getting through, and that's where the "hostile environment" comes in.

 

I read where one of the possible side effects were heavier periods, but mine were never any different. There was a little cramping when it was put in, but they'll give you pain meds to take for the first day or so til your body gets used to it. Nothing unbearable, just stronger than normal PMS type cramping.

[sweetbasil]

Most IUDs use abortifacient methods as their primary mechanism.

 

The Food and Drug Administration labels IUDs as "antiimplantational," describing them as working at the uterine level (6-10 days after conception). They are NOT labeled as contraceptive.

 

IUDs can aid in reduction of sperm motility, but from what I've read, this effect is nominal.

 

Also keep in mind that the definition of "conception" was changed in the 1970s. It is now technically defined by physicians as the point at which implantation occurs. Hence, if the Pill or IUD prevents implantation, theoretically, it can be referred to as "contraceptive".

 

IUDs or Intra-Uterine Devices, are small plastic devices that are inserted into the womb. Some IUDs contain copper or a time released hormone. It is believed that the IUD causes a low grade inflammation in the lining of the womb. As a result, the lining of the womb is imperfect and the fertilized egg will not implant. (Source: This paragraph on IUDs is quoted directly from the Calgary Regional Health Authority's web site.)

Sophisticated studies of women using IUDs have shown that frequently they demonstrate positive pregnancy tests (Beta HCG serum levels) that then become negative again over a period of time. This, of course, demonstrates that conception has taken place and is then followed by the death of the young person in the womb.

As far as what a doctor may or may not say about the mechanism of any birth control, it's always best you do your own research. When I told a friend about the abortifacient qualities of the Pill, she asked her doctor about it. Her doctor's response was "It would be illegal if it did that" (umm, never mind that the morning after pill is legal, and it's simply a larger dose of the regular Pill).

 

My response to my friend was "Just read the package insert!!"

 

Apparently the doctor had never even done that, because it's written out right there by the manufacturer.

 

Additionally, low-estrogen pills, especially the mini-pill, have MUCH higher rates of breakthrough ovulation than regular dose Estrogen Pills.

 

And my overall conclusion is this: Always err on the side of caution. For me, any abortifacient possibility is out of the question. I'm not willing to "guess" or "hope" no harm is being done when it comes to human life.

 

HTH somewhat!

[LisaKinVA]

I found this information here from Family Health International... the snippet below is just that, a snippet. The article is a lot more involved.

the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists18 reviewed the evidence and concluded that, "As such, the IUD is not an abortifacient."

 

And another from pub med, by the U.S. Nat'l Institutes of Health and the U.S. Nat'l Library of Medicine...

Center for Biomedical Research, Population Council, New York.

No studies show that IUDs destroy developing embryos at rates higher than those found in women who are not using contraceptives. Studies of early pregnancy factors have not shown statistically significant differences in transient levels of hCG between IUD and control groups, a sign of early abortion. The small, careful study by Segal et al. (1985) found no transient rise of hCG in the IUD group. The highly sensitive assay in a larger sample of IUD users, by Wilcox et al. (1985), suggests that an upper limit of only 3 or 4 percent of ovulatory matings with an IUD in situ might show transient rises of hCG. The electron microscopy of Hurst et al. (1980) demonstrated the existence of leukocyte-ridden degenerating embryos in rhesus monkeys fitted with IUDs, but found the same percentage of degenerating embryos in the control group. In this respect, IUDs do no more than nature. The work of Hurst et al. also demonstrates the comparative rarity of fertilized ova in rhesus monkeys fitted with IUDs. Croxatto (1974) and Alvarez et al. (1988) showed that this was also true for humans. A variety of studies demonstrate that IUD use diminishes both the number of sperm reaching the oviduct and their capacity to fertilize ova. Depending on the type of IUD and the drug dose, sperm are hindered from penetrating cervical mucus, are phagocytized by leukocytes, are incapacitated, with head-tail separation in the presence of copper, and suffer other cytotoxic effects in the IUD-altered uterine fluid. In the oviducts of copper-IUD users, ova are found significantly less frequently than in controls.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

 

And yet another health article here...

 

There are also numerous ones calling the IUD an abortifacient... but all of the research surrounding those is from the 1970's (at least the ones I read), or were from anti-birth control websites...

 

My mind is not yet made up, but at least I have more information than I did before.:001_smile:

[Lovedtodeath]

I was told that in the case of the morning after pill, it was the same as a normal BCP because sp*rm survive in the body for 3-7 days during which an egg could drop and fertilization occurr. Not saying this is correct, just goes to show how difficult it can be to find the truth about these things. That is why we decided on the V. We don't want to take any chances.

[KidsHappen]

In addition, the only time fertilization can occur is the first day of your period. I have no idea if that is correct. It is just what I was told.

 

This is not correct. Fertilization can only happen within a very short window of the time of ovulation (about 24-48 hours). Sp*rm for about 48 hours, so you can become pregnant from intercourse that has happened up to 48 hours before ovulation. The egg can live for about 36 hours so you can get pregnant within that period of time after ovulation. Providing that you have a normal cycle (28 days), ovulation should happen on the 14th day. Implantation happens about 7 days after fertilization which is usually 7 days before your period starts. Generally speaking a person with a normal cycle length is least likely to get pregnant when they are on their period. This misconception (pardon the pun) is responsible for many pregnancies.

 

Of course, this is the textbook explanation. Women do not neccesarily ovulate when they should especially if their cycle length is not 28 days. Even in women with normal cycles, ovulation does not always occur at the same time each month. If you have very short cycles and long periods you could ovulate very close to your period. And not all bleeding is your period. If you are nursing your fertility can return before your first period. This can also happen before your have your first period. When you are going through menopause your can have intermittent periods of fertility that could happen before the period that would follow that ovulation. And finally even if you have a textbook cycle, it can be very hard to pinpoint ovulation. I will try to post separately on this topic.

 

All of this was pulled from my college biology book, copyright 1985. If our understanding has changed in this period of time, someone please feel free to correct me. :)

[Lovedtodeath]

This is not correct. Fertilization can only happen within a very short window of the time of ovulation (about 24-48 hours). Sp*rm for about 48 hours, so you can become pregnant from intercourse that has happened up to 48 hours before ovulation. The egg can live for about 36 hours so you can get pregnant within that period of time after ovulation.

Wow! Great information. What I meant though, oops!, is that with an IUD, fertilization resulting in abortive conditions can only occur the first day of your period... as I was told.

[yslek]

This is not correct. Fertilization can only happen within a very short window of the time of ovulation (about 24-48 hours). Sp*rm for about 48 hours, so you can become pregnant from intercourse that has happened up to 48 hours before ovulation. The egg can live for about 36 hours so you can get pregnant within that period of time after ovulation.

 

Well, I'm pretty sure sp*rm can live longer than that. Even longer than mentioned in TCOYF, too. I was charting when my last ds was conceived and, um, yeah. I'm pretty sure. :D

 

Kelsy

[yslek]

Depending on which one you're going with, you can get brochures that go into detail on exactly how the work.

 

The Paraguard (copper) ones work by killing the sp*rm before implantation is ever allowed to occur. With every b/c method, there is always that "slight" risk of something getting through, and that's where the "hostile environment" comes in.

 

 

Similarly, the Mirena works by thickening cervical fluid, hindering sp*rm motility. It's also theorized that the IUD itsself acts as a barrier to the fallopian tubes. The hostile uterine environment is also present, but it's not the primary means of birth control.

 

(I did not want to use a bc method that relied primarily on preventing implantation, as that would bother my conscience. If that's a third line of defense, however, I feel OK about it. I did a lot of reading before deciding on getting the Mirena for this very reason. I'd heard the earlier info on IUDs as well, which caused me concern.)

 

When I was reading up on the copper IUD recently, I read that it causes the body to produce more progesterone, so I imagine you'd have some of the same effects with it as with the Mirena.

 

Kelsy

[KidsHappen]

Wow! Great information. What I meant though, oops!, is that with an IUD, fertilization resulting in abortive conditions can only occur the first day of your period... as I was told.

 

:confused: How can you have fertilization resulting in abortive conditions on the first day of your period, if fertilization technically can not occur on the first day of your period? Are you saying that abortive conditions of a previously fertilized egg (one that happened within the time span I listed above) can only occur on the first day of your period? I am not exactly sure what my disconnect is; maybe I am not understanding abortive conditions. Could you possibly elaborate on this?

[KidsHappen]

I have six dc and four of them are results of BC failures, three of them failures of multiple methods. My first dc was conceived while I was on the pill. I did not miss any pills and I was not sick at anytime. The next two were planned.

 

The fourth dc was conceived while breastfeeding, using NFP and a sponge. My periods had returned and my cycle is textbook, exactly 28 days, temp rise at exactly the right time with all other signs including mittlesmirtz. The sponge was used for seven days preceeding ovulation and two days after.

 

The fifth was conceived using NFP and the diaphram for eight days preceeding and two days after ovulation.

 

The sixth while breastfeeding and using condoms from the end of my period until two days after ovulation.

 

Pretty much the only method that I haven't had a failure with is the IUD and that's probably because I never used it. I have a medical condition that prevented that.

 

My dh had the V about six months after the last one was born. He really complained about getting it done but I was adament that abstinence was the only alternative as I had had SIX kids, so he relented but he never did get a clear reading. The youngest is now 9 and I have been on the pill, for other medical resons, since I weaned her about 6 years ago. But I would not be shocked if I still got pg. :)

[Lovedtodeath]

The sponge was used for seven days preceeding ovulation and two days after.

 

The fifth was conceived using NFP and the diaphram for eight days preceeding and two days after ovulation.

 

The sixth while breastfeeding and using condoms from the end of my period until two days after ovulation.

 

 

It is my considered opinion that sp*rm survive longer than 48 hours. ;)

[Lovedtodeath]

:confused: How can you have fertilization resulting in abortive conditions on the first day of your period, if fertilization technically can not occur on the first day of your period? Are you saying that abortive conditions of a previously fertilized egg (one that happened within the time span I listed above) can only occur on the first day of your period? I am not exactly sure what my disconnect is; maybe I am not understanding abortive conditions. Could you possibly elaborate on this?

 

What she said was that normally, the eggs are kept above the IUD and the sp*rm below. When you start your period, the eggs are flushed below the IUD and can be fertilized. This could be really off, I probably shouldn't have shared such unsubstantiated information.:confused:

 

I saw someone state on another thread that there is a chance every month of a fertilized egg being flushed away with your period? That had me really wondering.:confused: Maybe it depends on the timing of your cycle and the act of copulation? I could see with a short cycle an egg could be there maybe?

[KidsHappen]

What she said was that normally, the eggs are kept above the IUD and the sp*rm below. When you start your period, the eggs are flushed below the IUD and can be fertilized. This could be really off, I probably shouldn't have shared such unsubstantiated information.:confused:

 

I saw someone state on another thread that there is a chance every month of a fertilized egg being flushed away with your period? That had me really wondering.:confused: Maybe it depends on the timing of your cycle and the act of copulation? I could see with a short cycle an egg could be there maybe?

 

 

Well I appreciate the sharing because I am obviously giving this more thought than I had previously. I do know that eggs are sometimes fertilized but fail to implant and that sometimes implantation occurs but for some reason you spontaneously abort anyhow. I am just not sure as to the timing in these situations. As I mentioned in my other post in this thread, timing is not as exact as the textbooks would have you believe. Nor do I know if an IUD would make any difference. Maybe some of our medical folks could chime in on this.

[Lovedtodeath]

Nor do I know if an IUD would make any difference. Maybe some of our medical folks could chime in on this.

 

Yes, please!

[cathmom]

It is my considered opinion that sp*rm survive longer than 48 hours. ;)

 

 

Sperm do, but eggs don't, if I remember correctly and assuming you are referring to her using another method for two days after ovulation. That is why the evening of the third day after the temp rise is considered non-fertile time with NFP.

 

What I have never understood about using NFP and another method, is that you are then TOTALLY relying on the other method if you use it during your fertile time. And nothing is completely reliable, so you are going to have pregnancies occur in some women using this approach. And then when you are not fertile, then why bother using anything at all? :)

[Lovedtodeath]

My interest in this thread just sky-rocketed. I brought it up yesterday (the V complications) and he blew it off. But, I just cancelled his appt. He said what if something happened to you or the kids and I wanted a family again? I'm only 33.

 

So I am looking into the IUD (the doctor says it's bot abortive; I am trying to confirm that, or not) and Essure (complications?). We might go with a cervical cap or a diaphram. I am scared to death of another pregnancy, but at the same time, sterilization doesn't sound like what I really want. I may not have any choice. I have to think about how miserable pregnancy and PPD really is... for the whole family.

 

I have a post in the spin-off thread too. Thanks for talking this out with me. :)

[LisaKinVA]

Hey Loved... I posted a few articles earlier on the IUD. I suppose some of the most compelling "evidence" I've read thus far that the IUD is not abortive, as was the assumption in the 1970's... is the following:

 

The number of ectopic pregnancies with an IUD is .1 -- versus over .25 in the general population of NON-contraception users. If the IUD was simply an abortive device, the number of ectopic pregnancies should either mirror the general population or exceed it. However, over a 12 year period, it remained a constant .1

 

The other one is based upon the "flushing" of test subjects (half with and half w/o IUD), following s*x. The sperm in the half w/o the IUD was normal. The sperm in the half w/o the IUD was immobilized, head/tail separation and had inability to travel to the ovum... supporting the thesis that the IUD acts to create a spermicidal effect within the uterus.

 

The final one had to do with detecting the presence of fertilized eggs. Again, using test subjects. The IUD subjects had zero presence of fertilized eggs, compared to the control group -- where approximately half had fertilized eggs.

 

If the IUD was simply an "abortifacient" as has been claimed, again, there should be more similiarities between the IUD group and the control (non-bc) group.

 

I believe all of the tests involved the use of the copper IUD -- which I believe can be used for 10 years, without replacement, but can be taken out any time and your fertility returns pretty much immediately.

 

I'm still reading -- and will bring my notes to my m/w in 5 weeks to discuss further. This is a difficult decision for me -- but I'm not ready for either dh or I to go the sterilization route.

 

I do need to make a decision in the next few months, though, because I become fertile as soon as it's safe to have s*x after birth:tongue_smilie:...

[KidsHappen]

What I have never understood about using NFP and another method, is that you are then TOTALLY relying on the other method if you use it during your fertile time. And nothing is completely reliable, so you are going to have pregnancies occur in some women using this approach. And then when you are not fertile, then why bother using anything at all? :)

 

 

Well, the logic is that there would not have to be a period of abstinance (during fertile times) and you would not have use anything during non-fertile times. Obviuosly, this doesn't work very well and I can't be sure exactly where the failure was. There is no way of knowing if I ovulated when I shouldn't have or if there was a failure of the secondary method. My best guess is that there was a failure of the secondary methods but in our case those would have been the preferred method over NFP so it wouldn't have made any difference.

[Prairie~Phlox]

I have a paraguard IUD and have had it for 7 years so far. I love it, have not had any problems with having it in. I will have it switched out at 10 years when it is "expired." With having three preemies, dh didn't want me to do anything permanent. After praying about things, we both agreed that this would be the best thing. He's not patient enough with NFP, when he wants it, he wants it, and doesn't like messing with things.

 

Phlox

[Lovedtodeath]

Regarding Christian view of BC, I found this... "Nowhere does the Bible command Christians to procreate. God told the first human couple and Noah’s family: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth.” But this command was not repeated to Christians. (Genesis 1:28; 9:1)"

Is there anything sinful about sexual relations between husband and wife?—Proverbs 5:15, 18, 19.

What should Christians bear in mind if they use contraceptives?—Exodus 21:22, 23.

How should others view married couples who use contraceptives?—Romans 14:4, 10-13.

The scriptures seem to indicate that sexual relations between husband and wife are a God-given gift. But procreation is not their sole purpose.

[ummix3]

I use the copper T IUD. I've had it for 4 years now and love it! It's worked out great for us. It's very cost effective because once you put it in it's good for 10 years. There are no known side effects, that I know of.

 

At first I didn't like the idea of putting something in my body, but my midwife talked me in to it and told me to try it. Basically it works as a spermicide (sp?) and it also makes the lining of the uterus infavorable for the egg to implant. It does not cause the woman to abort a fertilized edd as thought in the past. There was a study I read, when I was researching the option, that talked about how they had tested the menstrual blood of two groups of women. The group with the IUD had no traces of hormones, or I'm not sure how to put this 'fertlizied egg'. This was a big deal for me because I was always under the impression that it let the woman get pregnant and then she would abort in a short time.

 

hth

 

Michelle

nycmom

[LisaKinVA]

Basically it works as a spermicide (sp?) and it also makes the lining of the uterus infavorable for the egg to implant. It does not cause the woman to abort a fertilized edd as thought in the past. There was a study I read, when I was researching the option, that talked about how they had tested the menstrual blood of two groups of women. The group with the IUD had no traces of hormones, or I'm not sure how to put this 'fertlizied egg'. This was a big deal for me because I was always under the impression that it let the woman get pregnant and then she would abort in a short time.

 

I think I read that article :D -- essentially, they were looking for fluctuations in the hcG hormones for pregnancy. They found the same or fewer fluctuations in the IUD test subjects as in women in a control group -- where there were levels of hcG present, indicating that a pregnancy had occured, but was not sustained. In the control group (non/bc participants), the early miscarriage fluctuations (essentially, you get pregnant and might not even realize it, and the pregnancy doesn't take for whatever reason...).

 

I believe the conclusion as to why this indicated the IUD was not abortifacient was essentially this... IF all the IUD did was abort fertilized eggs, the number of hcG fluctuations in women should be significantly higher than the general population of early miscarriages... does that make any sense?

[Lovedtodeath]

Hey Loved... I posted a few articles earlier on the IUD. I suppose some of the most compelling "evidence" I've read thus far that the IUD is not abortive, as was the assumption in the 1970's... is the following:

 

Thank you Lisa! I will look at the earlier posts. :) We are leaning this way right now, considering the evidence.

[lighthouseacademy]

The fourth dc was conceived while breastfeeding, using NFP and a sponge. My periods had returned and my cycle is textbook, exactly 28 days, temp rise at exactly the right time with all other signs including mittlesmirtz. The sponge was used for seven days preceeding ovulation and two days after.

 

The fifth was conceived using NFP and the diaphram for eight days preceeding and two days after ovulation.

 

 

NOT picking on YO KidsHappen- but your post brought up something. According to TCOYF you should continue using your barrier method 4 days past your temperature shift and count out peak 1-4 (5 days total if you count your peak day) from the last fertile fluid and not have unprotected relations until both of those are satisfied. Furthermore, if there is any relapse of either fertile quality fluid or a dip in temperature you should restart the count on that sign before considering yourself safe in order to be the safest...

 

All that said, I know a lady who got pregnant on the pill with #1, had #2, then got pregnant with #3 and 4 while on her period, with a condom after her dh had a vasectomy!!!! Whent he V was checked, it was clear.

[KidsHappen]

NOT picking on YO KidsHappen- but your post brought up something. According to TCOYF you should continue using your barrier method 4 days past your temperature shift and count out peak 1-4 (5 days total if you count your peak day) from the last fertile fluid and not have unprotected relations until both of those are satisfied. Furthermore, if there is any relapse of either fertile quality fluid or a dip in temperature you should restart the count on that sign before considering yourself safe in order to be the safest...

 

All that said, I know a lady who got pregnant on the pill with #1, had #2, then got pregnant with #3 and 4 while on her period, with a condom after her dh had a vasectomy!!!! Whent he V was checked, it was clear.

 

I think that this maybe updated info. I used an older book that said that you needed to wait two full days past the day the temperate shift so if shift happened on say the 1st of the month then you would not have relations on the 1st (the day of the shift) or the two days after that (the 2nd and the 3rd). Relations could resume on the 4th. So that would only be 3 full days. Perhaps that was the problem. :001_huh: Maybe they lengthened the time because there were too many failures.

 

My dd and her husband used withdrawl for 5 years without failure. I kept bugging her to go to the dr and get on the pill. She finally went, got a prescription and was waiting for her next period to start it. Well it never came and now I have a three week old grandson. I am absolutely amazed that they made it 5 whole years though when I got pregant just being undressed in the same room as dh. :tongue_smilie:

[Lovedtodeath]

UGH! Lisa, how would you respond to this? I am so confused. And boy, I cannot think of anything more important to get right! Though, truthfully, that link given seems to say things that it does not back up in any way.:001_huh:

[Lovedtodeath]

We've been doing NFP and condoms for most of our married life. I started with Depro-Provera shot (once a quarter), No cycle at. all. Talk about freedom :D . The worst part about that for me was the weight gain. 15# in 2 years :tongue_smilie:. Apparently, it is now also associated with reducing bone density (long term use).

 

If it weren't for the weight and bone-density thing, I'd probably try that again.

 

I just saw this and wanted to add my experience with Depo-provera. I gained 40 pounds in a year and a half, had severe depression and anxiety attacks. When I finally brought it up to my next gyno, he said that he had patients with Depo caused depression that landed them in the hospital, and he would never prescribe it.

[Lovedtodeath]

spermicides are used alone, Did you guys use this alone or with something? Messy? Aggravating?

We have used spermicide with a diaphram... works great! Alone or with c*ndoms it is both messy and aggravating.

 

When I was reading up on the copper IUD recently, I read that it causes the body to produce more progesterone, so I imagine you'd have some of the same effects with it as with the Mirena.

Kelsy

Kelsy, thank you for your information. Why did you choose the Mirena instead of a copper IUD? (Zelda, could you chime in here too?)

 

I have a paraguard IUD and have had it for 7 years so far. I love it, have not had any problems with having it in.

Phlox

I see some sites that state increased menstral flow and other state that it decreases. What is your experience? Neither?

 

The copper IUD and the LNG-IUS do have different mechanisms of action. The copper IUD impedes sperm transport and prevents fertilization by cytotoxic and phagocytic effects. The LNG-IUS inhibits fertilization by way of progestogenic responses that result in thickened cervical mucus, inhibition of sperm motility and function, suppression of endometrial growth, and induction of a foreign-body leukocyte reaction.

Any thoughts on this as to why one would be preferable?

[LanaTron]

Sp*rm for about 48 hours, so you can become pregnant from intercourse that has happened up to 48 hours before ovulation. The egg can live for about 36 hours so you can get pregnant within that period of time after ovulation.

 

:)

 

In the NFP class I took, it was explained that sperm can live up to 6 days in structures in the cervix before ovulation--the instructor called the structures "crypts"--then only 24-36 hours after ovulation.

 

And I will say that when I conceived dc#4, that is exactly what happened. We took a chance on a day of questionable fertility, I ovulated 6 days later, and nine months later I had a baby girl in my arms. It was actually pretty cool to know exactly when I conceived. I still have the temp chart I was keeping at the time.

[5kidsforME]

Diana, I looked this one up and drugs.com said this about it: "Studies have shown that when spermicides are used alone, pregnancy usually occurs in 21 of each 100 women during the first year of spermicide use ." Did you guys use this alone or with something? Messy? Aggravating?

 

We must make a decision here and (sadly) we are finished having babies but I don't love the idea of either of us having a procedure. Not because we might change our mind but...well, because it does involve cutting. :) I really don't care for cxndoms and I'm not being consistent on my temps.

 

I'd love something simple, non-hormonal and doesn't prevent implantation. I know our best bet and best fit is a clip. It just gives me the yuckies thinking and the finality of if makes my baby-making-days-are-over blues even worse for now. :) Maybe later if I can get past it.

 

We have used this for 8 plus years and have never gotten pregnant when we use it. Of course we stopped using it the times we wanted to get pregnant.

[Another Lynn]

I use the copper T IUD. I've had it for 4 years now and love it! It's worked out great for us. It's very cost effective because once you put it in it's good for 10 years. There are no known side effects, that I know of.

 

At first I didn't like the idea of putting something in my body, but my midwife talked me in to it and told me to try it. Basically it works as a spermicide (sp?) and it also makes the lining of the uterus infavorable for the egg to implant. It does not cause the woman to abort a fertilized edd as thought in the past. There was a study I read, when I was researching the option, that talked about how they had tested the menstrual blood of two groups of women. The group with the IUD had no traces of hormones, or I'm not sure how to put this 'fertlizied egg'. This was a big deal for me because I was always under the impression that it let the woman get pregnant and then she would abort in a short time.

 

hth

 

Michelle

nycmom

 

I haven't read the entire thread, but I'm confused about this.... If the it makes the lining of the uterus unfavorable for implant, isn't that the same as aborting a fertilized egg?

 

Just trying to understand....

 

Thanks!

[Laura Corin]

I used to use a diaphragm with gel. DH could feel it, but it wasn't a big deal.

 

Laura

[Laura Corin]

What I like about the Mirena is that it has reduced my periods to almost zero, has caused no complications whatsoever, and is something I can ignore for five years at a time. I am reaching the end of my second Mirena, and will have another one inserted early next year.

 

The very small hormone release from the Mirena has never had any systemic effects on me: no weight gain, emotional issues, etc. It is that which causes the lining of the uterus to stay thin, stopping your periods.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura