What does an addiction feel like?

[Sharon77]

I am looking for help from people who would be able to share their experiences so that I can better understand family members.

I want to be gracious and understanding.

 

I do not have an addictive personality. If I want to stop something, I just stop it. So I can't understand it when people struggle with destructive behavior/addiction.

 

Of course, when I was young, I'd think it was because the person didn't want to change enough.

But as I get older, I am seeing that is not true. Now, I think people do want to get past things, but just can't. Is it too late for them? Has their brain been so altered, it's too hard?

 

[ktgrok]

It would be a little like deciding to hold your breath. Or to stop talking entirely. Or stop eating. 

[MelAR05]

Bump

[fairfarmhand]

My friend said that her addiction was not to get high after a period of time.

 

It was to not feel like a pile of dog poop on the bottom of a shoe. You know that feeling like when you have the flu and you ache all over and your head's throbbing and you want to puke? That's how she felt when she tried to quit using pain pills.

 

It wasn't about getting high anymore.

 

It was about feeling normal enough to get through the day.

 

It's not about not wanting to enough. It's about a physiological, emotional, and mental hurdle that looks like a 500 story building that you have to leap over in a single jump.

 

It was about not having coping skills to face life's challenges. Simply trying to clean the house was too much for her without a pill.

 

After I read her description, I went from an attitude of "you just aren't trying enough." or "if you really wanted too...." to "you poor thing. How awful. How helpless you must feel."

 

Of course, some bad stupid partying decisions led to where she was then. But at that point, it wasn't about partying or having fun or anything good. It was about struggling through life and feeling like a failure every single day. About knowing that getting pulled over for a speeding ticket could separate her from her kids for years. A

[abba12]

My addiction wasn't a substance but an action. I actually do not have an addictive personality, at all. But this one behaviour, due to circumstances, had become an addiction.

 

In that instance, for me it was identity. I was afraid to stop because it was my normal. It dominated my thoughts, my life. If I didn't have it, what WOULD I have? What would fill that void? As much as I HATED this action, and it was destructive to me, I was so afraid of the 'nothing' that would be there if it stopped. Of course, in the end it wasn't nothing, that void was filled with things I couldn't imagine at the time. 

 

It's also chemical. In my case the action would cause hormonal responses. I think that having adrenaline too frequently for too long can effect your brain and you can become, in a way, addicted to that. It took me years to adjust to a quiet, 'normal' life. And when you're depressed, which most addicts are, endorphins and such are their own high, but unfortunately most of them don't have the energy or will to get them from exercise lol. The brain chemicals released when you act on your non-substance addiction are addictive in themselves for some people. When that happens, it's a very, very strong desire...

 

I'd say.... perhaps think of it like being infatuated by someone, perhaps that early stage of marriage, where you think about them all the time, and you want to be with them all the time, and being separated for any period is almost painful because the urge and desire to be with them is so, so strong. Catch is, this thing you love is actively hurting or even killing you. But you just can't live without it, it's part of you, the emptiness it would leave feels impossible to bear. 

 

Obviously, substance addictions are quite different, but I have no experience with that. 

[gardenmom5]

it is not too late - but it usually does require outside help. the deeper into it the addict gets, the harder it is - but it is still possible if they are willing to get appropriate help.  it is not simply "not doing that anymore". 

addiction CHANGES brain chemistry - it messes up serotonin and dopamine et. al., and several other brain chemicals.  it messes up how the reward center in the brain functions.  to truly overcome an addiction is a time consuming process that is step by step to ultimately rewire the brain.

 

and someone can be addicted to something but only binge on their substances every so often.   if they need to do something to "function" - it has potential to be an addiction.  (there are a lot of using addicts who'll tell you they don't have an addictive personality - and that they aren't addicted.)

 

[gardenmom5]

 

 

Obviously, substance addictions are quite different, but I have no experience with that. 

 

not really.  I recall one addict who had both a heroin addiction and a behavior addiction who said the heroin was *easier* to give up than to change the behavior to overcome the other addiction.

[Carol in Cal.]

Something I was surprised to learn is that sometimes 'just quitting' is actually dangerous.  I have a friend who helps facilitate interventions, and the follow up care for severe alcohol use is medically tricky. 

[Tsuga]

I am looking for help from people who would be able to share their experiences so that I can better understand family members.

I want to be gracious and understanding.

 

I do not have an addictive personality. If I want to stop something, I just stop it. So I can't understand it when people struggle with destructive behavior/addiction.

 

Of course, when I was young, I'd think it was because the person didn't want to change enough.

But as I get older, I am seeing that is not true. Now, I think people do want to get past things, but just can't. Is it too late for them? Has their brain been so altered, it's too hard?

 

"Addiction is a state characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli, despite adverse consequences. It can be thought of as a disease or biological process leading to such behaviors."

 

I am addicted to caffeine and alcohol. Just because you can stop any time doesn't mean you're not addicted. Addiction is something else. True, there are good things about caffeine and alcohol if you drink them in moderation in the healthiest forms, but overall, drinking less of both would probably be good for me. I'm cutting both for lent and I don't drink alcohol some times, but most nights I think, wow, I need to relax. I think I'll have a glass of wine. I would be lying to myself if I thought, "That's not addiction." It's addiction. I still don't drink when I'm on business trips to dry countries, or during certain times of year. I don't worry about that. But I'm addicted.

 

I was addicted to nicotine, read Allen Carr's Easy Way to Quit Smoking and I quit in a day. But my brain still tells me: nicotine was really nice at helping focus. And it was. It actually was. Nicotine is actually a really effective treatment for ADHD in some cases. It's actually really nice. But I quit because it's extremely addictive and I didn't want my kids growing up around that. But what does it feel like? I'm still addicted though I don't smoke. It feels like--you know how sometimes you're next to your little one and you just have to hug them? Like that. Except that it's not a hug. It's something that fools the brain into thinking you're getting something as wonderful as a hug when you're not. You're just getting something that pokes your brain in the right way.

 

Wine is more like a hug. Coffee is like exercise. Cigarettes are like magic, pure magic. Like a magic purple cloud that makes you able to do the whole math test without blinking. Marijuana... that's like flying, at least the kind that I like.

 

Some say that drugs don't work, that they just make you think they're working. Maybe that's true for some people. But for me, they work. It takes self-restraint to say, "No, even if reality is less fun, being a member of the community is more important than happiness, and also drugs are super expensive and prevent me from working (since I can't legally smoke at work in most of the US), so I will soon devolve into a life of crime."

 

But I am a prime drug user candidate. Food doesn't do it for me. Hugs don't do it for me. Music and sex almost get me there. Drugs? They make me feel like other people appear to feel all the time. Happy. Alert. Complete.

 

I don't mind not being happy, alert, and complete but sometimes it's frustrating when society expects you to be happy. I'm kind of an existentialist so happiness, well... I dunno, I'm reading a book on the genocide of my people, what can I say? Wine helps. I can feel happy without thinking happy thoughts, because there are no happy thoughts for me that overcome the things I think of... when you see homeless, drug recovery, every day, when you come back from the crapulous of the world, when your father has cancer, how can you feel happy? But it never ends, the problems of the world. I'm a brown woman working in the public sector. My happiness comes from serving others.

 

And drugs. Drugs make reality go away. It's wonderful. (Except not in the long run.)

 

Has my brain been altered? Probably, but that's not it. I was born thinking about the problems of the world, I guess. I was never able to totally forget my problems except when skiing but I don't live in Siberia, so oh well. It's not like drugs made me need them to be happy. I wasn't happy before either.

 

Is it too hard? No. I quit smoking no problem and I quit alcohol every so often for my liver and I have quit coffee three times in ten years for what is technically longer than the physical addiction period. I just happen to know that there was never a time when I felt 100% okay and focused and happy and drugs make my moods more like other people's. It's not like if I quit I'd be normal. The whole reason I drink coffee is that I wasn't focused enough! I drink wine because I wasn't relaxed enough (and yes, I've done yoga, I've done meditation). The drugs work. They worked from day one. I remember the first time for each drug, legal, that I tried, thinking, "Oh, yep. I get it."

 

I never realized how screwed up I was by society's standards until I met my current partner. He's so normal. He doesn't need drugs. He is what a person is supposed to be. He's a white guy. We have the same SAT scores and the same ability at many games that we've both played since childhood, but he's normal. He's happy.

[Btervet]

Telling an addict to just stop is like telling someone to just not pee. It might seem doable for the moment, but the need builds and builds, until it is all you can think about. You know when you've been stuck in the car too long, that when you finally get somewhere with a bathroom you barely wait until the car is stopped, burst through the door, and run straight to the bathroom with no regard for your surroundings because you need to that bad? It's like that. It consumes your thoughts.

[AimeeM]

Your friend has a way with words.

Exactly this.

Not to compare smoking (cigarettes) with a pain pill addiction, but I smoke to feel normal - not because I enjoy smoking.

I hate smoking.

I mean, I seriously hate that I smoke.

We just moved to a sincerely NICE subdivision and to the best of my knowledge, I'm the only smoker. I'm embarrassed by my smoking, the skin on my hands crack because of the amount of washing I do after each cigarette; my children hate that I smoke and my husband hates that I smoke.

But smoking is MY "normal". At this point I smoke because not smoking makes me, and everyone around me, miserable for months. I've quit in the past and the entire "the cravings fade after 21 days" mantra is crap, imo. My cravings NEVER faded - never; not after 21 days and not after 6 months.

I smoke because I can't live my life wanting somethings so much I can taste it - something that I have access to easily if I want it, something that I know would make that intense craving fade. 

I smoke, at this point, just to feel normal and happy and sane. 

 

 

My friend said that her addiction was not to get high after a period of time.

 

It was to not feel like a pile of dog poop on the bottom of a shoe. You know that feeling like when you have the flu and you ache all over and your head's throbbing and you want to puke? That's how she felt when she tried to quit using pain pills.

 

It wasn't about getting high anymore.

 

It was about feeling normal enough to get through the day.

 

It's not about not wanting to enough. It's about a physiological, emotional, and mental hurdle that looks like a 500 story building that you have to leap over in a single jump.

 

It was about not having coping skills to face life's challenges. Simply trying to clean the house was too much for her without a pill.

 

After I read her description, I went from an attitude of "you just aren't trying enough." or "if you really wanted too...." to "you poor thing. How awful. How helpless you must feel."

 

Of course, some bad stupid partying decisions led to where she was then. But at that point, it wasn't about partying or having fun or anything good. It was about struggling through life and feeling like a failure every single day. About knowing that getting pulled over for a speeding ticket could separate her from her kids for years. A

 

[abba12]

Your friend has a way with words.

Exactly this.

Not to compare smoking (cigarettes) with a pain pill addiction, but I smoke to feel normal - not because I enjoy smoking.

I hate smoking.

I mean, I seriously hate that I smoke.

We just moved to a sincerely NICE subdivision and to the best of my knowledge, I'm the only smoker. I'm embarrassed by my smoking, the skin on my hands crack because of the amount of washing I do after each cigarette; my children hate that I smoke and my husband hates that I smoke.

But smoking is MY "normal". At this point I smoke because not smoking makes me, and everyone around me, miserable for months. I've quit in the past and the entire "the cravings fade after 21 days" mantra is crap, imo. My cravings NEVER faded - never; not after 21 days and not after 6 months.

I smoke because I can't live my life wanting somethings so much I can taste it - something that I have access to easily if I want it, something that I know would make that intense craving fade. 

I smoke, at this point, just to feel normal and happy and sane. 

 

That's interesting for me to read. My mother quit smoking for 5 pregnancies, right at the beginning every time. And she began smoking again as soon as the baby was born, every time. I never understood it, you've just gone 9 months without a cigarette, why would you even pick it up again after all that time? She hated smoking, complained how bad it was, but always went back. Still not sure I understand... (like I said, I don't have an addictive personality, after I finally left my addiction behind, and about a year of desperately wanting it back which eventually faded, the urge/craving has only entered my mind a handful of times in the past 5 years) But, at least she apparently isn't alone in this, you've described what she must have been feeling. I mightn't get it, but, maybe it helps me accept it a little more. 

[gardenmom5]

 

 

I've quit in the past and the entire "the cravings fade after 21 days" mantra is crap, imo. My cravings NEVER faded - never; not after 21 days and not after 6 months.

 

 

my grandfather smoked a pipe.  he finally quit for good after his 2nd heart attack.  but I do remember him saying how he felt when he smelled the neighbors cigarette smoke.  even years after he quit just smelling the smoke from someone's cigarette would bring back the craving.

 

eta: he was much healthier after he quit - and lived many more years than he would have otherwise.  he'd already had two heart attacks - if he didn't quit, it was only a matter of time before he had a third.

 

[Word Nerd]

I find it very hard to believe you've never had an addiction of any kind—not to caffeine, sugar, the Internet, or anything at all?

[AHASRADA]

I find it very hard to believe you've never had an addiction of any kind—not to caffeine, sugar, the Internet, or anything at all?

I can believe it, my dh is like that. He has very black and white, logical thinking. If something needs to be done, you do it. If something causes a negative consequence, you don't do it. Period. He doesn't understand people knowing what they should or shouldn't do but not acting accordingly. I try to explain to him that the majority of people have varying degrees of disconnect between their intellectual understanding of an issue and practical follow-through, for a variety of personal reasons and issues, but he just can't grasp it.

[goldberry]

Substance addictions can destroy the brain's natural coping skills and ability to handle stress. So yes, often when the substance user quits, he will have a harder time dealing with stress than the average person will.  That seems really unfair.  :glare:

 

I don't have substance issues, but I have many things in my life I would like to be doing differently and just CAN'T.  I bite my fingernails.  I eat junk food.  I don't exercise.  These things make me feel calm and happy and I just can't seem to stop them.  I figure if I, as a relatively mentally healthy person, have that much trouble with such simple things, then I can only imagine and pity a person with substance issues.

 

 

[goldberry]

I can believe it, my dh is like that. He has very black and white, logical thinking. If something needs to be done, you do it. If something causes a negative consequence, you don't do it. Period. He doesn't understand people knowing what they should or shouldn't do but not acting accordingly. I try to explain to him that the majority of people have varying degrees of disconnect between their intellectual understanding of an issue and practical follow-through, for a variety of personal reasons and issues, but he just can't grasp it.

 

My dad is like this.  I think at the core is an ability to disconnect from their own emotions or feelings.  With my dad, you do what needs to be done.  You feel this or that about it?  So?  That's irrelevant.  

 

This man smoked from the age of 16 until about 55.  He smoked three packs a day.  When he decided he needed to quit, he put the cigarettes down and never picked them up again. If he had cravings or whatever, that didn't matter.  He decided to quit, and as far as he was concerned, that was it.

[AimeeM]

That's interesting for me to read. My mother quit smoking for 5 pregnancies, right at the beginning every time. And she began smoking again as soon as the baby was born, every time. I never understood it, you've just gone 9 months without a cigarette, why would you even pick it up again after all that time? She hated smoking, complained how bad it was, but always went back. Still not sure I understand... (like I said, I don't have an addictive personality, after I finally left my addiction behind, and about a year of desperately wanting it back which eventually faded, the urge/craving has only entered my mind a handful of times in the past 5 years) But, at least she apparently isn't alone in this, you've described what she must have been feeling. I mightn't get it, but, maybe it helps me accept it a little more. 

I did similar with my pregnancies. Why did I pick them back up? Because the addiction didn't go away just because I abstained for a while. It's absolute torture to live each day (every hour of every day) craving something. I was a cranky, edgy witch to live with.

[Word Nerd]

My dad is like this.  I think at the core is an ability to disconnect from their own emotions or feelings.  With my dad, you do what needs to be done.  You feel this or that about it?  So?  That's irrelevant.  

 

This man smoked from the age of 16 until about 55.  He smoked three packs a day.  When he decided he needed to quit, he put the cigarettes down and never picked them up again. If he had cravings or whatever, that didn't matter.  He decided to quit, and as far as he was concerned, that was it.

 

 

I completely disagree that someone who smoked three packs a day from 16 to 55 didn't have an addiction to smoking. That's a classic example of an addiction. Maybe we're using the term differently.

[goldberry]

I completely disagree that someone who smoked three packs a day from 16 to 55 didn't have an addiction to smoking. That's a classic example of an addiction. Maybe we're using the term differently.

 

I didn't say he didn't have an addiction, I'm sure he probably did.  But for whatever reason, he didn't react to the addiction like other people.  When he decided to quit, he just quit.  There is something different about him that enables him to put his willpower over whatever feelings he had (and I'm sure he had them.)  We were talking about people who don't seem to understand addiction, because they are able to stop or control whatever it is in their life that they want to.  I think it's a result of them being able to selectively disconnect from their own feelings. 

 

And I do think their experience of addiction is different from others, and that they don't have a typical addictive personality.

[regentrude]

I find this comment interesting:

 

I find it very hard to believe you've never had an addiction of any kind—not to caffeine, sugar, the Internet, or anything at all?

 

Why do you find that hard to believe? Is it really your experience that all people in your life are addicted to something?

That is the complete opposite to my own experience, where the majority of people have no addictions whatsoever.

[Word Nerd]

I find this comment interesting:

 

 

Why do you find that hard to believe? Is it really your experience that all people in your life are addicted to something?

That is the complete opposite to my own experience, where the majority of people have no addictions whatsoever.

 

 

Yes.

[fraidycat]

I find this comment interesting:

 

 

Why do you find that hard to believe? Is it really your experience that all people in your life are addicted to something?

That is the complete opposite to my own experience, where the majority of people have no addictions whatsoever.

Really? Where is this? I'd like to see it!! I have trouble believing it because it IS my reality that everyone I know has some sort of addiction. I can't think of one who doesn't. It might not look like addiction until the substance is removed, but big ones around me are sugar/carbs, caffeine, and screens. In my family of origin add nicotine, and in that extended family, alcohol. I do believe there is a cousin or two who might also be drug users as well.

[fraidycat]

Your friend has a way with words.

Exactly this.

Not to compare smoking (cigarettes) with a pain pill addiction, but I smoke to feel normal - not because I enjoy smoking.

I hate smoking.

I mean, I seriously hate that I smoke.

We just moved to a sincerely NICE subdivision and to the best of my knowledge, I'm the only smoker. I'm embarrassed by my smoking, the skin on my hands crack because of the amount of washing I do after each cigarette; my children hate that I smoke and my husband hates that I smoke.

But smoking is MY "normal". At this point I smoke because not smoking makes me, and everyone around me, miserable for months. I've quit in the past and the entire "the cravings fade after 21 days" mantra is crap, imo. My cravings NEVER faded - never; not after 21 days and not after 6 months.

I smoke because I can't live my life wanting somethings so much I can taste it - something that I have access to easily if I want it, something that I know would make that intense craving fade.

I smoke, at this point, just to feel normal and happy and sane.

:grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I think smoking and pills are definitely comparable. One is way more socially acceptable than the other, though. The whole pariah thing with smokers got old a LONG time ago. As if the self-loathing a person feels isn't enough.

 

:grouphug:

 

I know exactly how you feel. I was finally able to (mostly)* quit and not feel terrible cravings. I read Allen Carr's Easy Way to Stop Smoking. It didn't work like all the claims said it would. Then, I read it a a second time and tapped (EFT) the whole time I read. After that it really was a whole lot easier than the other 200 + times I tried to quit and lasted from 1 hour - 5 months (hating EVERY second of it!!). I gave myself a week, then quit. I used EFT on the day to day stuff if necessary, but that was very rare. Maybe 5 times.

 

That was April 2014.

 

* I relapsed for about a month when DS broke his arm, we were getting ready to move from Canada to the US, had a bed bug scare in our apartment just as we were getting ready to pack up (thankfully it was ONLY a scare!) and my Grandma died all within a one month time frame. April-May 2015. But in the in between time I really didn't feel the cravings - even constantly being around my Mom and Aunt who are both heavy smokers. I did smoke to help cope through that extremely stressful time, but gave it up again as soon as we got settled back into the US.

 

I only tell this story to give you hope. I was you. BTDT on the craving never going away, the witchiness, the constant washing hands, the self-hatred and embarassment at being addicted, all of it. But this time, even with the stress relapse, it really is different and it was a whole lot easier to stop after the stress period was over, knowing that the cravings wouldn't ruin my life.

 

In hindsight, I've discovered I was also using nicotine as an appetite suppressant - part of that addictions can be self-medicating thing. Smoking instead of eating all day long - just to function normally. Until, I diagnosed myself with a grain/gluten/dairy intolerance (with elimination diet) and started eating paleo. Being able to tolerate actually eating food without the chronic side effects made a big difference too, I believe. I had to be physically able to cope and it wasn't happening when I was eating everything my body couldn't tolerate.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: I hope you find something that works for you.

[TranquilMind]

I am looking for help from people who would be able to share their experiences so that I can better understand family members.

I want to be gracious and understanding.

 

I do not have an addictive personality. If I want to stop something, I just stop it. So I can't understand it when people struggle with destructive behavior/addiction.

 

Of course, when I was young, I'd think it was because the person didn't want to change enough.

But as I get older, I am seeing that is not true. Now, I think people do want to get past things, but just can't. Is it too late for them? Has their brain been so altered, it's too hard?

I am not really a believer in everything labeled an addiction today being an addiction. 

 

Sure, if someone shoots you up with heroin for a few days or forces you to take cocaine or meth, you are going to strongly crave it. But you are responsible if you continue. 

 

But most things we do to ourselves are just bad habits we created and we entrenched.  Hard to stop, but not addictions in that sense. 

 

So what I would consider an addiction is very narrow, unlike probably everyone else here.  

 

We continue a bad habit when the cost of continuing is not outweighed by the price paid (with those rare exceptions above). 

 

I drank for a lot of years and entrenched quite a powerful habit.  Stopping was hard.  But the price to continue was higher than I wanted to pay (feeling bad, death) and I believe God helped me to just walk away when I got serious about it.  23 years now.  I'm not stupid enough to walk back and dabble.  We have to know our own weaknesses and avoid them, and that is our responsibility. 

 

My husband and mother is/was like you.  He can start and stop things with ease and so could she.  That's awesome.  We all have our weaknesses and strengths.  I have other strengths. 

[TranquilMind]

Telling an addict to just stop is like telling someone to just not pee. It might seem doable for the moment, but the need builds and builds, until it is all you can think about. You know when you've been stuck in the car too long, that when you finally get somewhere with a bathroom you barely wait until the car is stopped, burst through the door, and run straight to the bathroom with no regard for your surroundings because you need to that bad? It's like that. It consumes your thoughts.

You can't effectively tell someone to stop.  It HAS to come from within, not without. 

[TranquilMind]

I find this comment interesting:

 

 

Why do you find that hard to believe? Is it really your experience that all people in your life are addicted to something?

That is the complete opposite to my own experience, where the majority of people have no addictions whatsoever.

Same here.  The majority do not have any problems with this.

 

[TranquilMind]

I completely disagree that someone who smoked three packs a day from 16 to 55 didn't have an addiction to smoking. That's a classic example of an addiction. Maybe we're using the term differently.

Sounds like he had a really bad habit and decided to change it when the cost was too high.

[TranquilMind]

My dad is like this.  I think at the core is an ability to disconnect from their own emotions or feelings.  With my dad, you do what needs to be done.  You feel this or that about it?  So?  That's irrelevant.

 

This man smoked from the age of 16 until about 55.  He smoked three packs a day.  When he decided he needed to quit, he put the cigarettes down and never picked them up again. If he had cravings or whatever, that didn't matter.  He decided to quit, and as far as he was concerned, that was it.

That's actually an excellent coping skill for life. 

We all need this! 

[Word Nerd]

Sounds like he had a really bad habit and decided to change it when the cost was too high.

 

Semantics.

[TranquilMind]

Yes.

Ok.  But who of us didn't quit while getting pregnant or at least while knowingly pregnant?

 

We do it because it is best for the baby, and deal with a headache. 

[regentrude]

Really? Where is this? I'd like to see it!! I have trouble believing it because it IS my reality that everyone I know has some sort of addiction. I can't think of one who doesn't. It might not look like addiction until the substance is removed, but big ones around me are sugar/carbs, caffeine, and screens. In my family of origin add nicotine, and in that extended family, alcohol. I do believe there is a cousin or two who might also be drug users as well.

 

How do you define "addiction to screens"?

Just because somebody uses the computer a lot does not make him addicted.

 

Similarly with sugar/carbs. Just because somebody eats a diet that contains sugar and carbs does not mean "addiction". The fact that cutting out carbs creates a physical response alone does not mean addiction either; any significant dietary change will cause short term physical symptoms (like in a long term vegetarian who tries to incorporate meat, or somebody who, for the first time, increases fibrous vegetables).

 

I think the we need to distinguish addiction from a mere habit. A person who can simply choose not to consume xyz substance or not engage in xyz behavior without suffering or feeling the compulsion to consume/behave in certain way is not addicted.

So somebody who just likes to drink coffee but can do fine without it is not addicted - he may simply have a habit of drinking coffee.

Somebody who likes to drink wine, but never feels a need or compulsion to drink and can easily go long times without drinking is not an alcoholic.

[TranquilMind]

Semantics.

Maybe, but I think it is very important to not go around labeling yourself as a helpless addict.  You are what you say and often, what has been spoken over you repeatedly, to a large degree.

[fraidycat]

How do you define "addiction to screens"?

Just because somebody uses the computer a lot does not make him addicted.

 

Similarly with sugar/carbs. Just because somebody eats a diet that contains sugar and carbs does not mean "addiction". The fact that cutting out carbs creates a physical response alone does not mean addiction either; any significant dietary change will cause short term physical symptoms (like in a long term vegetarian who tries to incorporate meat, or somebody who, for the first time, increases fibrous vegetables).

 

I think the we need to distinguish addiction from a mere habit. A person who can simply choose not to consume xyz substance or not engage in xyz behavior without suffering or feeling the compulsion to consume/behave in certain way is not addicted.

So somebody who just likes to drink coffee but can do fine without it is not addicted - he may simply have a habit of drinking coffee.

Somebody who likes to drink wine, but never feels a need or compulsion to drink and can easily go long times without drinking is not an alcoholic.

devoted or given up to a practice or habit or to something psychologically or physically habit-forming

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/addicted

 

 

It's all about the dopamine. Just because one does not feel addicted or compulsive, doesn't mean they aren't. Even if they can abstain for long periods of time.

 

The brain is a fascinating thing. Some people are even addicted to certain emotions. Like anger. Ever heard of an adrenaline junkie? Addiction.

 

My definition is pretty broad, and doesn't only include detrimental or illegal things.

[Word Nerd]

Maybe, but I think it is very important to not go around labeling yourself as a helpless addict.  You are what you say and often, what has been spoken over you repeatedly, to a large degree.

 

I didn't.

[TranquilMind]

I didn't.

Not addressing you specifically about that, but people do this regularly, I'm saying. 

 

They even have meetings and announce it over themselves. 

[fraidycat]

Not addressing you specifically about that, but people do this regularly, I'm saying.

 

They even have meetings and announce it over themselves.

Saying you are an addict is not saying you are a HELPLESS addict. There is a difference. One is acknowledging, one is self-limiting.

[TranquilMind]

Saying you are an addict is not saying you are a HELPLESS addict. There is a difference. One is acknowledging, one is self-limiting.

Why even label yourself at all?  Why not just stop what you are doing and then consider it over? 

[ktgrok]

Why even label yourself at all?  Why not just stop what you are doing and then consider it over? 

 

Because livingin denial leaves you vulnerable to future slip ups. 

[regentrude]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/addicted

 

It's all about the dopamine. Just because one does not feel addicted or compulsive, doesn't mean they aren't. Even if they can abstain for long periods of time.

 

My definition is pretty broad, and doesn't only include detrimental or illegal things.

 

In this context, I prefer to use a definition that is not just some dictionary use, but refers to the psychological connotation, like this one: https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/addiction

 

 

a condition that results when a person ingests a substance (e.g., alcohol, cocaine, nicotine) or engages in an activity (e.g., gambling, sex, shopping) that can be pleasurable but the continued use/act of which becomes compulsive and interferes with ordinary life responsibilities, such as work, relationships, or health.

 

Every definition in relation to psychology or psychiatry of addiction that I have seen mentions compulsion to use.

 

 

In your sense of the definition, we are addicted to taking showers. Not helpful for discussing addiction or helping addicts.

 

[goldberry]

That's actually an excellent coping skill for life. 

We all need this! 

 

To a certain extent, it's good.  But it can grow to mess with personal relationships.  If I'm able to do this, why is not everyone else?  Why should I have any sympathy for anyone's gooshy messy "feelings"?  Some people like that even have a hard time knowing what they themselves really *feel* about something, because it is so easy for them to cut it off and live in their head. 

 

I saw this in my dad and was well on the road to that myself until about my mid-twenties.  Oddly enough, the training to become a massage therapist changed me, because it brought me back to my body and my feelings, and not just my head.  My dad has loosened up on it in his old age.  He may not be as "strong", but he is a much nicer person. After my brother died from a lifelong drug addiction, he was able to rethink things some, and let go of some of his absolute and hardline opinions, both about addiction and about himself.

 

In general I think that for all the ways it's harder, it's a richer life to be more connected to feelings, both yours and others.

[TranquilMind]

Because livingin denial leaves you vulnerable to future slip ups. 

You aren't in denial.  You still fully acknowledge that X (whatever it is) is not wise for you and you steer clear.    I will never drink wine again (until I drink it new again with Jesus. ;) )   I don't go to meetings or announce it, or label myself and identify with peers who have the same issue.  I just don't go there. 

 

Why get all label-y about it? 

 

That's makes no sense to me but then I have never been one to identify by labels.

 

I just don't drink.  No one needs to know why.  I don't have a whole lifestyle built around why I don't drink. 

[fraidycat]

In this context, I prefer to use a definition that is not just some dictionary use, but refers to the psychological connotation, like this one: https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/addiction

 

 

 

Every definition in relation to psychology or psychiatry of addiction that I have seen mentions compulsion to use.

 

 

In your sense of the definition, we are addicted to taking showers. Not helpful for discussing addiction or helping addicts.

 

How do showers affect your dopamine levels? It's it physically habitual/addictive or a trained behavior? It's not something I've researched, but I'm open to learning if you care to share.

 

Compulsion can also look like - I just want/need to relax...in front of the t.v. Or computer. Or with this glass of wine. IE: it disguises itself as stress, or anxiety, or any other bad feeling people may try to "escape". It's not ALWAYS a discernable craving for a physical substance - THAT definition is unhelpful in an addiction discussion. The craving is in your brain, for the hormones (dopamine being a major one).

[ktgrok]

In this context, I prefer to use a definition that is not just some dictionary use, but refers to the psychological connotation, like this one: https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/addiction

 

 

 

Every definition in relation to psychology or psychiatry of addiction that I have seen mentions compulsion to use.

 

 

In your sense of the definition, we are addicted to taking showers. Not helpful for discussing addiction or helping addicts.

 

 

 

Yes. That applies to my addiction to sugar. I will feel compelled to eat soemthing sweet. I will tell myself to ignore it, and sit down to read instead, but find myself distracted, unable to focus, until the need for the sugar has totally taken over my thoughts. 

 

(this doesn't happen much since surgery, but was the story of my life before that)

[TranquilMind]

To a certain extent, it's good.  But it can grow to mess with personal relationships.  If I'm able to do this, why is not everyone else?  Why should I have any sympathy for anyone's gooshy messy "feelings"?  Some people like that even have a hard time knowing what they themselves really *feel* about something, because it is so easy for them to cut it off and live in their head. 

 

I saw this in my dad and was well on the road to that myself until about my mid-twenties.  Oddly enough, the training to become a massage therapist changed me, because it brought me back to my body and my feelings, and not just my head.  My dad has loosened up on it in his old age.  He may not be as "strong", but he is a much nicer person. After my brother died from a lifelong drug addiction, he was able to rethink things some, and let go of some of his absolute and hardline opinions, both about addiction and about himself.

 

In general I think that for all the ways it's harder, it's a richer life to be more connected to feelings, both yours and others.

Who says we have no sympathy?    It doesn't mean that the advice to stop is not good advice. 

 

I think being able to detach from our "feelings" is a wonderful skill and I wish I were better at it.  Who cares how I "really feel" about drinking. It's stupid for ME and I'm not doing it.  Why analyze it to death? 

 

We all mellow in life eventually, like your dad did, if we live long enough.   We recognize complex factors led people to do what they do, but we still have to acknowledge that they chose to do it and kept at it long enough to create a problem.  That was stupid.  Recognize that it was stupid and we ourselves did some other stupid things (I have dead relatives from a variety of stupid things).   Learn from the lesson. 

 

 

I think it is easy to distinguish between what we should be doing and still support it wholeheartedly, even if we sometimes stumble on the way to doing it ourselves (thinking of overeating here, for one example). We can fully support the idea that a sugar free life is best, but we still had a cookie at a restaurant a few days ago. We are all works in progress, on our way.  Just be headed in the right direction and you will get there. 

[TranquilMind]

Yes. That applies to my addiction to sugar. I will feel compelled to eat soemthing sweet. I will tell myself to ignore it, and sit down to read instead, but find myself distracted, unable to focus, until the need for the sugar has totally taken over my thoughts. 

 

(this doesn't happen much since surgery, but was the story of my life before that)

An aside.... I read some very interesting stuff about how what we eat creates the microbes in our gut that demand that we eat more of whatever that is, and sugar was a particular offender. 

 

Probiotics helped a great deal in regulating some of that crazy craving stuff.  Yes, it was a sugar problem for me before it was alcohol...they are virtually the same thing in the bloodstream, and create cravings. 

 

I do best when I just stay away.  I'm not moderate when it comes to sugar and it does make me feel bad. 

Yes, surgery does it too, sort of.  You start again with the gut after that is all over.  I do best when I stay away from sugar entirely (I mean cakes, cookies, not like a banana or something). 

[regentrude]

How do showers affect your dopamine levels? It's it physically habitual/addictive or a trained behavior? It's not something I've researched, but I'm open to learning if you care to share.

 

You used the definition "devoted or given up to a practice or habit or to something psychologically or physically habit-forming".

 

Having grown up without access to a shower and limited access to hot water for bathing, I can attest that the "need" to shower daily in order to feel clean which seems very common to people in the US is definitely a learned behavior that has become a habit in which most people engage on a daily basis and which makes people feel good. Many people would not feel good if they were prevented from showering. So, in your sense of the definition, that would be an addiction.

 

 

 

Compulsion can also look like - I just want to relax...in front of the t.v. Or computer. Or with this glass of wine. IE: it disguises itself as stress, or anxiety, or any other bad feeling people may try to "escape". It's not ALWAYS a craving -THAT definition is unhelpful in an addiction discussion.

 

That is not "compulsion". Compulsion implies feeling bad if one can't have it and feeling the increasingly strong need to engage in the behavior. Just wanting to relax with some wine does not equal compulsion.

[SporkUK]

My parents are both addicts. When I was little, it was easy to see my father was addicted to tobacco. At 10+, alcohol became noticeable to me. 13 or so, I noticed the pain pills and the pot. It wasn't until I was almost an adult that I saw how many non-drug addictions they had and how important these thing were to them even as our family fell apart. 

 

They would never call any of them addiction - even calling it "habits" is too strong for them, they're "just having a good time", they're "what adults do" and I'm the one wrong for not taking part according to them (I literally got a lecture just before my 21st birthday on how rude/paranoid I was for not having a beer on it - even though I was thousands of miles away from them. I stopped talking to my mother soon after that). Their lives revolved around their coping mechanisms regardless of how it affected others - and to deal with theirs, I had developed coping mechanisms of my own that I would not notice for years because to me it was "what I do", "my only way of coping", "how I have fun" even though it resulted in a lot of horrible decisions.   Anything can be addictive - that's why so many places have warning requirements for gambling. Total non-consumable but even regulation-shy industries are willing to admit that some come to harm by using them as a coping mechanisms. Mine is computers - It still affects me - when I am poorly, when I am stressed, when I am pushed too far, the addiction I built in my childhood to cope with my parents is still where my brain first reaches to for comfort.

 

To me, it doesn't matter if someone called it a habit, coping mechanism, or an addiction - unless they're trying to shame another (strong evidence that shaming pretty much always leads to less willpower and worsening of addictions) - its destructive cycles that the brains has gotten hard-wired and stuck in to cope with something. The brain mechanisms are powerful things that can easily negatively affect us and the sooner we  openly admit as a society how willpower is a limited mental resource and rather weak and stop treating these things as a matter of just powering through/moral for most people, the sooner we can face how our environment is a major cause of how many are facing it. We have strong evidence of it in other animals (put a rat in a tiny cage and give it plain water and one laced with drugs and it will go for the drugs until it dies, put them in a healthy and happy environment, they'll go for water) but few in power want to see how that relates to ourselves. Unless we can help change that, anyone with addictions is going to struggle to stop. 

 

[fraidycat]

You used the definition "devoted or given up to a practice or habit or to something psychologically or physically habit-forming".

 

Having grown up without access to a shower and limited access to hot water for bathing, I can attest that the "need" to shower daily in order to feel clean which seems very common to people in the US is definitely a learned behavior that has become a habit in which most people engage on a daily basis and which makes people feel good. Many people would not feel good if they were prevented from showering. So, in your sense of the definition, that would be an addiction.

 

 

That is not "compulsion". Compulsion implies feeling bad if one can't have it and feeling the increasingly strong need to engage in the behavior. Just wanting to relax with some wine does not equal compulsion.

I said disguised, but whatever.

 

Edited to remove unecessary snark.

[SporkUK]

That is not "compulsion". Compulsion implies feeling bad if one can't have it and feeling the increasingly strong need to engage in the behavior. Just wanting to relax with some wine does not equal compulsion.

 

What if it becomes the only way someone can relax? The only way you feel you've had "me time"? What if one struggles to feel pleasure or clear ones head or feel themselves without it? Person is fine to go days without it, doesn't feel bad or a strong need to do it when there are other things to do but nothing feels right/fun until they do this one thing? What if it is the only thing you just want to do beyond responsibilities?

 

That was me - and still is during hard times. I had to relearn how to enjoy reading a novel - it wasn't work or computer and my mind had great difficulty -just- reading a book. I struggled to just watch TV without my laptop going as well. Part of me is really glad my shaky hands make tablets and smartphones hard to use so I can dismiss them. To me, I can go without my computer for ages, but I never feel done or that I have done anything for myself until I've worked on my computer - even when I spend hours working on something for others, it still feels for me because it became my comfort blanket as a child and it still is today. Cutting off my feelings has nothing to do with it - I can go days without it without missing anything, but I'm not *me* without my computer work. I was raised thinking I would die violently any day, I do not think it is surprising that my brain still puts great importance on what helped me cope, survive, and find the life I have now. 

 

Personally, I'm not bothered if people call it a habit, coping mechanism, or addiction, but it is a pathway ingrained in my brain that - without outside help - would lead to negative consequences for me and those around me. It isn't as destructive as my parents alcoholism, but I think that is more to having support in my life than the fact it is a non-consumable. I think limiting addiction to drugs demonizes those drugs and addicts (and having had family denied methadone he used as a painkiller for advanced stage cancer because hospital staff viewed him as a drug addict, this demonization can affect everyone and even those who are addicted do not deserve that) and dismisses how powerful our brain is in finding ways for us to cope in the worst environments even to our own and others detriment and only through acknowledging that do I think we will have real support and change for people.