Raising Little Shoots Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Hello all I have just seen a thread in a local FB group (mainly autonomous home educators) that has me thinking... The main idea of the post is that learning should always be fun for the child. I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this. My own perspective is that learning is not always fun...but there is an immense satisfaction from pushing through & learning something that required effort & commitment. I would also consider the difference between fun & interesting / absorbing. TIA! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelia Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Not all learning can be fun. Sometimes it is hard. Sometimes it is boring, but necessary. In an ideal world, everything would be fun, but that's not the case in reality. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 No, all learning isn't going to be fun. All learning is not going to result in satisfaction from the hard work either. One of my kids despises math. Can find absolutely no fun or enjoyment in math. Gets zero satisfaction from the hard work she puts in, or from the lightbulb moments when she understands a concept. But, she knows that if she wants to go to college she has to take a certain amount of math. For her, it's a useless hoop to jump through. No amount of trying to make it more fun, interesting, etc., has changed that. For some kids it's science, or history, or literature. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainydaybaby Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 No matter what I do, my son does not like school. It is not what he wants to do. I learned about 2 years ago that I can exhaust myself trying to make it fun and exciting or I can give him a quality education and require that he do it. Either way, he will have the same attitude about it. I'm not saying there is no place for fun in school, but that is not my focus. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I do not believe school needs to be fun. I do believe academics can be interesting and spark enthusiasm and love for learning. Interesting and fun are not synonyms. My kids would not describe our homeschool as fun. They would, however, tell you that they enjoy most of their school work. (They do have some subjects they don't enjoy as much as others, though.) 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dramorellis Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Life is not all fun so why should learning be any different. I really dislike the idea that life for children should constantly be fun and enjoyable and they should be happy all the time. That's not the reality of what it means to be a human. There are a whole wide range of normal emotions and it's really not up to me to try to make sure they only experience a few of them. My job is to teach them how to manage themselves all of them even when not everything is fun and to help them see the aspects of it that are worthwhile. What does Pa Ingalls say? "That which must be done is best done cheerfully" or something like that. I don't enjoy doing the dishes but I still do them and the payoff is that we can cook and eat in a clean kitchen without bugs. I can approach it with gnashing of teeth and crying or I can take it for what it is and get it done diligently with a good attitude. I ask the same from them from their school work. When I'm learning to construct a new stitch when knitting or learn a new technique it is many things but fun is not really one of them. I enjoy the process, the exercise it gives my brain and the satisfaction of the finished garment especially after I have messed up many times and had to rip it out and re-do it. Now do I hope that learning is "engaging" if not necessarily fun? Absolutely but I don't jump through hoops to make it so. Either it is or it isn't but it must be done so let's focus and get it done. The other side to that is what I think is fun is often entirely different than what they think is fun. I truly dislike adult- directed activities that are framed as FUN. They enjoy what they enjoy. They can tell me what they find fun and/or engaging not the other way around. I try to accommodate that when possible but I often find it's better to just get our work done and then let them loose to figure out what it is they really enjoy all on their own. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ereks mom Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I do not believe school needs to be fun. I do believe academics can be interesting and spark enthusiasm and love for learning. Interesting and fun are not synonyms. My kids would not describe our homeschool as fun. They would, however, tell you that they enjoy most of their school work. (They do have some subjects they don't enjoy as much as others, though.) "Interesting and fun are not synonyms." I completely agree. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raising Little Shoots Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 What does Pa Ingalls say? "That which must be done is best done cheerfully" or something like that. Absolutely! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raising Little Shoots Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 I think in some circles, the attitude is that it must be fun. It is only about three/four years ago that I was finally able to shake that idea from my head. My kids do not find their learning fun (for the most part) & it made me feel quite the failure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 As much as I love the ideal, I have not always been able to pull it off. And some kids just don't find any structured school work fun at all. I have one like that. I had to let go of the idea that I could make it fun. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanikit Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 If all learning should be fun then surely all of life should also be fun: - like taking small children grocery shopping - how exhilarating! - how about doing the dishes - what fun! - stopping at a stop street - makes my heart tingle! - and I just cannot WAIT to brush my teeth tonight and turn out the lights in the house before bed - thrilling! or even teaching my children every day - some days it is just not so much fun especially when I could do with another cup of coffee. Some days even when they are bouncing up and down with excitement about something I may not be finding it fun. And obviously it works in reverse too - while I may be so excited about teaching them how to write beautifully , even my spark of excitement is not always catching. It is a world view that we must all be successful and have fun each day and feel happy permanently. That would be living in a castle in the sky. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raising Little Shoots Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 As much as I love the ideal, I have not always been able to pull it off. And some kids just don't find any structured school work fun at all. I have one like that. I had to let go of the idea that I could make it fun. Glad it's not just me :huh: I have been a lot happier as a parent since I realised school does not have to be fun. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Glad it's not just me :huh: I have been a lot happier as a parent since I realised school does not have to be fun. My anti school kid is now 10. About a week ago he was groaning again about school. So I said I am open to suggestions and that nothing I've tried that I thought would be fun turned out to actually be fun. He couldn't give me any ideas. I tried to incorporate lots of hands on projects. I hate these things. But I really wanted to try. I asked if he thought those were worthwhile and fun. He said no. And they weren't I agree. But what's left? I've let him help pick books. I let him pick whatever he wants to read for reading. He loves art, but all the art stuff goes untouched for the most part. I give up. LOL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnMomof7 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I invest my homeschooling energies into getting school done. Not so much in making it fun :). 2/3 of the children I've taught to read complained about and at times fought against their reading lessons. Now they love to read and can't even remember the struggle through those lessons. They are thankful for the skill though :). My children finish academics and chores between 10 am - 1 pm most days. Then they go play and make their own fun :). Making fun for them is no longer my job, and hasn't been for years now. I'm very glad. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAgain Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Learning should be engaging, not fun. There's a difference between those two words. It should be able to immerse you, interest you, but not be there for your amusement. Fun can stem from a lesson, but it is not the objective. And it's okay to have off days or struggle. You can find a lesson or subject you don't particularly enjoy, but are still able to have your full attention on and be interested in either the whole, the parts, or the future objective. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 If all learning should be fun then surely all of life should also be fun: - like taking small children grocery shopping - how exhilarating! - how about doing the dishes - what fun! - stopping at a stop street - makes my heart tingle! - and I just cannot WAIT to brush my teeth tonight and turn out the lights in the house before bed - thrilling! . This list does highlight a different but related issue, attitude. Attitude can play a huge role in every aspect of life. If a child has a negative whiny attitude over daily tasks that must be done, the atmosphere is very different than being around a child with a positive attitude toward doing those same tasks. Life does not need to be fun, but whining about expected tasks/daily life activities versus approaching those same tasks with a positive attitude is a character issue. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenDaisies Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Article by Cheryl Lowe that addresses this question: http://www.memoriapress.com/articles/learning-fun-part-one 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 It should not be all fun. Life should be all living. (That's a near-quote from Charlotte Mason.) Education should not be a detached, meaningless hamster wheel. Education is a part of life. So, it's not meant to be fun. It's meant to bring life. Childbirth isn't fun, but it brings life. :scared: (I'm sure my kids would insert some comment about math or spelling here. :lol: ) That said, most of our educational pursuits should be more analogous with the sweet moment of a mother nursing her baby. A child listening to mother read, playing a math game, etc... This is not rollercoasters and fireworks. (Rollercoasters and hamster wheels...that analogy could drive another thread. :gnorsi: ) Of course, for young children, playing Happy Phonics and Rightstart Math games is fun and learning. I think the ability to *make* learning fun decreases with age. A high school student needs to be at the point of adult conversation, socratic discussion. A healthy high schooler should find discussing history or literature a satisfying experience, a toe dipped into adult thinking. When I hear that education should be fun, I immediately think "edutainment" which produces much information with little understanding. All of education should nourish a child's heart and mind, or it should have an aim of giving the child tools for nourishing her own heart and mind via books, art, music, etc... 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Learning does not need to be fun - it's work, but it should be engaging, interesting, inspiring, rewarding work, at least most of the time. Occasionally it may be dull work, but hopefully in contexts where the student can see the reasoning - I'm practicing phonics with mommy for ten minutes because I want to read books like big sister or I'm memorizing these tables because I want to pass that exam so I can fulfill my goal of studying chemistry in college. Or whatever. However, if learning is misery, something is deeply wrong. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainydaybaby Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Learning does not need to be fun - it's work, but it should be engaging, interesting, inspiring, rewarding work, at least most of the time. Occasionally it may be dull work, but hopefully in contexts where the student can see the reasoning - I'm practicing phonics with mommy for ten minutes because I want to read books like big sister or I'm memorizing these tables because I want to pass that exam so I can fulfill my goal of studying chemistry in college. Or whatever. However, if learning is misery, something is deeply wrong. So true. I have to give my son a purpose for all of his learning. He recently started up swimming lessons again. We took a break from them for over a year because he wasn't progressing and didn't seem to care if he did. This summer the pool started teaching the skills differently. So instead of just progressing through all of the strokes in each level, they focus on a few skills and are adding in more water safety skills like helping someone who is drowning. He is progressing so quickly this time and is excited about doing it. It made me realize that what he might be missing in school is the application to real life. So I am going to focus more on explaining to him why he is learning what he is learning this year. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainydaybaby Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Sorry, double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abba12 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Learning should be interesting. Learning should be presented in a way that may be enjoyable wherever practical. Learning should be relatable and meaningful, not dry and dull where possible. But, I'm sorry, spelling will never be fun. I think math is fun, but many kids would disagree with me on that one! I choose interesting books, I try to do some hands on things, I show enthusiasm in learning and hope it catches on. And i desperately hope school will not be an endless source of drudgery with my children hating ALL of it. But, sometimes, they won't enjoy parts of it, and life is sometimes about doing things you don't want to do. Parenting should be fun and fulfilling, but I sure don't enjoy those 2am wake up calls or toddler tantrums. School should, if possible, be an enjoyable experience, but that doesn't mean every single aspect will be fun. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanikit Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 FilltheHeart I agree with you, and put learning in the same category - I do need my child to have a good attitude to learning too even when it is not great fun. So just like I would not expect my child to whine and moan when sent to brush her teeth, I expect her to have a good attitude towards doing her school work. If she is whining about brushing her teeth and I know in general she has a good attitude about it then I can look for a reason - is she overtired, is she sick, is there some emotion she needs to talk about. And when it comes to learning if her attitude is right then why is she moaning now - can I teach her to say she is struggling with something, or that she would rather do something else, or that she feels tired - if she can verbalise what is going wrong rather than just whining about it that teaching will give her much greater skills for life later and enable problem solving. And sometimes it is just a case of you have to do this fun or not - just like those other chores that are not exciting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raising Little Shoots Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 My anti school kid is now 10. About a week ago he was groaning again about school. So I said I am open to suggestions and that nothing I've tried that I thought would be fun turned out to actually be fun. He couldn't give me any ideas. I tried to incorporate lots of hands on projects. I hate these things. But I really wanted to try. I asked if he thought those were worthwhile and fun. He said no. And they weren't I agree. But what's left? I've let him help pick books. I let him pick whatever he wants to read for reading. He loves art, but all the art stuff goes untouched for the most part. I give up. LOL Lol! I was devastated a year or two back when my (now 9 yo) said she hated school. When I actually sat down & take with her & went through it subject by subject, she was all 'hmm, that's ok, no, I like that one" etc etc. She just hates having to write anything, and honestly, I have her actually write very little. So it turns out that she just prefers to play with toys, be in the garden, or watch TV than do her school work... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raising Little Shoots Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 This list does highlight a different but related issue, attitude. Attitude can play a huge role in every aspect of life. If a child has a negative whiny attitude over daily tasks that must be done, the atmosphere is very different than being around a child with a positive attitude toward doing those same tasks. Life does not need to be fun, but whining about expected tasks/daily life activities versus approaching those same tasks with a positive attitude is a character issue. Working on attitude is one of the goals I have written down for this year - for both my daughter & myself :huh: I have ordered SCM 'laying down the rails' to help me focus. Any other advice is greatly received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raising Little Shoots Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 Article by Cheryl Lowe that addresses this question: http://www.memoriapress.com/articles/learning-fun-part-one Thank you so much for sharing that article. I really appreciate those words. They will be good to go back & read when my dear friend is reminding me how her 10 yo learned to read from using FB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raising Little Shoots Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 It should not be all fun. Life should be all living. (That's a near-quote from Charlotte Mason.) Education should not be a detached, meaningless hamster wheel. Education is a part of life. So, it's not meant to be fun. It's meant to bring life. Childbirth isn't fun, but it brings life. :scared: (I'm sure my kids would insert some comment about math or spelling here. :lol: ) That said, most of our educational pursuits should be more analogous with the sweet moment of a mother nursing her baby. A child listening to mother read, playing a math game, etc... This is not rollercoasters and fireworks. (Rollercoasters and hamster wheels...that analogy could drive another thread. :gnorsi: ) Of course, for young children, playing Happy Phonics and Rightstart Math games is fun and learning. I think the ability to *make* learning fun decreases with age. A high school student needs to be at the point of adult conversation, socratic discussion. A healthy high schooler should find discussing history or literature a satisfying experience, a toe dipped into adult thinking. When I hear that education should be fun, I immediately think "edutainment" which produces much information with little understanding. All of education should nourish a child's heart and mind, or it should have an aim of giving the child tools for nourishing her own heart and mind via books, art, music, etc... So many wonderful points in here, thank you! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raising Little Shoots Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 Parenting should be fun and fulfilling, but I sure don't enjoy those 2am wake up calls or toddler tantrums. School should, if possible, be an enjoyable experience, but that doesn't mean every single aspect will be fun. yes, indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raising Little Shoots Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 FilltheHeart I agree with you, and put learning in the same category - I do need my child to have a good attitude to learning too even when it is not great fun. So just like I would not expect my child to whine and moan when sent to brush her teeth, I expect her to have a good attitude towards doing her school work. If she is whining about brushing her teeth and I know in general she has a good attitude about it then I can look for a reason - is she overtired, is she sick, is there some emotion she needs to talk about. And when it comes to learning if her attitude is right then why is she moaning now - can I teach her to say she is struggling with something, or that she would rather do something else, or that she feels tired - if she can verbalise what is going wrong rather than just whining about it that teaches will give her much greater skills for life later and enable problem solving. And sometimes it is just a case of you have to do this fun or nit - just like those other chores that are not exciting. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Our school has these reading logs with stickers that are supposed to "make reading fun". On my second year with my second child i just didn't buy one. Why even sugest to the kids that reading isn't fun? Learning is fun but not every minute needs to be fun. Sometimes you have to work at it. But it is still fun if you have an attitude of loving learning for learning's sake. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Apart from all the wise things others have said, I think there really is value in having the experience of persevering in some learning that isn't fun, and seeing some benefit or good outcome or goal reached from that. I realized this when I was talking to some people - adults - about books. they were saying that a particular group of books were no good because they were not easy and fun to read - a really good author would present the same ideas in an easy to read format. It made me realize that reading really is a skill even beyond the basics - being able to read more difficult texts without it being miserable takes practice too and probably needs to be worked at continuously. Many adults seem to think learning to read ends with the basics, because they have never ever been asked to read something that they did not find "fun" - it is primarily entertainment. Charlotte Mason talks about this a little, that children should have the experience of reading for information as well as recreation or we do them a disservice. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daijobu Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Sitting in a language lab and listening to tapes and practicing your pronunciation is no fun. But being in a foreign country and being able to express yourself in another language is deeply satisfying. (I haven't had this satisfaction myself, but it sounds awesome!) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventuresinHomeschooling Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I believe it is a good thing to create an atmosphere where children enjoy learning. That does not mean they enjoy learning every thing that is required. My son doesn't like math much, but he knows it is required. I let him read LOF to see the usefulness and enjoyment of math, but that doesn't mean he can skip learning his math facts. Sometimes learning is a task you just have to do. However, I do believe that a child can find "fun" in learning with a good attitude. I am a little of the Mary Poppins thinking here. "In every job that just be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun, and snap...the job's a game." My son may not like addition, but he enjoys having colorful worksheets where I allow him to doodle on his math page when he is done. Or we play a competition game with math facts to make it more fun. He also hates to write too much. His hand cramps, etc. but it has to get done, I try to make it as manageable as possible, but he just has to learn the exercise in perseverance here. I think it all comes to attitude of the child to find the fun in learning. But every lesson cannot be fun. Sometimes it will be boring, but I'd like to try to make it as enjoyable as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I considered that for a while. I went through a ton of money and wore myself to a point of exhaustion before I realized that my children simply do not have to enjoy everything that they NEED. I am NOT going to raise children who believe that something is only worth doing if it's enjoyable. I don't care much for doing the dishes, but letting them sit there forever isn't really an option either. We're all happier now that I'm not trying to force them into "happy" mode, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 No. Some kids enjoy structured tasks that school at home or PS provides but for many and possibly most kids, school is work because learning is work. Moreover, very view of us will be able to arrange our lives to only do fun things (vs. a lot of work) so may as well have them get used to taking pleasure in a job well done now because that delayed gratification will serve them well in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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