Spelling is going to be the death of me. SWR? LoE? AAS? Help, please.

[Mergath]

I've been trying for a year to figure out what to do for spelling for dd, and I STILL DON'T KNOW.  :banghead:  I know I've posted about it here before, so forgive me if you're reading this and feeling a sense of deja vu.

 

Here's a quick rundown:

 

Dd (just turned seven and starting second grade in a month) is a fluent reader. She can sound out any word I throw at her, even six syllable behemoths, but she doesn't always know what they mean. Her vocabulary isn't behind, it just hasn't caught up to her reading level. We did phonics very briefly when she was four, up to silent e stuff, and then she basically taught herself to read overnight, so she hasn't had any real phonics to speak of. As such, I'd like to use a phonics-based spelling program. She seems to be a fairly natural speller and rarely misspells a word, but I still have this fear that she's going to grow up and curse me for the rest of her life because she doesn't know all the spelling rules or something. 

 

I have AAS1 which we tried last year and quit after a week because dd hated it, Spell to Write and Read and the WISE Guide (picked them up in Goodwill for two bucks each, score!) and Logic of English Essentials TM and workbook, which a friend gave me. (I know, you'd think with all these curricula laying around I'd just pick one and go with it, but I swear it makes it even harder.)

 

When I read about SWR on the internet it sounded great, but once I picked up the TM and actually began reading I just about died from how complicated it is. Plus I'd have to secularize it, which would be a lot of extra work. And did I mention it looks complicated? Holy cow. 

 

LoE looks like SWR but easier and more parent-friendly, right? But I'd still have to buy a lot more stuff, from what I'm seeing. Do I really need the game book? And the game cards? And the phonogram cards? I have phonogram apps on my phone. Also, dd doesn't know all the phonograms. Like, if I hold up a card with an "a" on it, she couldn't tell me the four (?) sounds that "a" makes. Does she need to learn this before she starts one of these programs, or will she work on it during? I've read the intros and stuff, but I'm still a bit fuzzy on that.  They all say she needs to be familiar with the phonograms A to Z, but I'm unclear about whether that means she needs to just know and be able to write the letters, or if she needs to know all the sounds, or what. That was what she hated about AAS, incidentally. Sitting at the table and reciting the sounds for each letter made her run sobbing from the table.

 

I'm leaning toward LoE, because I like that it doesn't look super complicated and that it includes grammar, vocab, etc. But I just don't know. Will it be overkill for a natural reader/speller? Which extras should I buy if I do use it?

 

I'm going to go bang my head against the wall now. And cry. And then possibly drink.

[maize]

I don't teach spelling to my natural spellers, there are enough things we need to do with our time.

 

I would like to find a good source for quickly and simply covering the rules just so that kids are aware and recognize patterns as they see them.

[Tiberia]

I have tried a bunch of spelling programs, too, and didn't like them. I just don't want to spend that much time and energy on spelling.

 

So, last year I ended up buying Spelling Power and using the spelling lists. I don't do any of the games, methods, practices, etc. (I know, it's a sin according to the SP lady.) I started at the very beginning (dd was 5th grade then, so the words were very easy) and just read the words to her. If she could spell the word correctly, we moved on until she missed one.

 

I accumulated missed words until she had a list of ten, or until we tired of spelling (about half an hour). She practiced writing the missed words for a week, then I tested her on them. Then we repeated the process. SP has lists that will go through the end of high school.

 

I feel your pain. This is the easiest, most pain free method I have found. Dd doesn't mind it either.

 

Good luck!

 

ETA: SP does group the lists by spelling rules.

 

Another edit to add: You can buy an old SP copy on the cheap since all you're after are the lists. 

[sbgrace]

In my opinion and experience, rules are better for learning to read than for spelling. Most spelling rules, and I used a rule-based spelling, are worded as "usually" or "often" or "sometimes" and there are lots of rule breakers. Rule based spelling was a disaster for my weak speller. It was fine for his twin, but anything would have been fine for him. You can't rule your way into spelling. Spelling is more about chunking and visualizing.

 

So, anyway, I wouldn't take a rule based spelling approach if you don't need it for reading.

 

I'd use Spelling Power if she appears to be a natural speller and progresses well with it. If she doesn't, use Apples and Pears when she is a bit older and able to keep up with the writing. It teaches the few rules that always work and how to chunk into meaningful bits for larger words.

[SnMomof7]

If she's a natural speller, she doesn't really need spelling instruction. I certainly wouldn't drop a bundle on AAS or LOE. They are both teacher intensive and expensive. :)

 

If you feel like you need a spelling course to cover the rules, Rod and Staff is much simpler and more affordable.

[Mergath]

Thanks everyone!

 

I think the problem is that I keep getting to the point where I decide she'll be fine using something like Spelling Power, and then I read something about how TERRIBLE! HORRIBLE! things will happen if she doesn't use a rule-based program, then I freak out and obsess all over again.

 

If I do go with using lists, does anyone know how the lists in SWR/WG compare to SP? Dh is going to have a nervous breakdown if I acquire yet another spelling curriculum.

[Farrar]

Stop freaking out. You won the spelling lottery - a kid who reads and spells easily. She's not going to hit a wall. She is going to be fine. If she does, in a couple of years, start having some sort of spelling issue, tackle it then. Don't borrow trouble. I don't think she's likely to need a full program down the line at all. :)

[Mergath]

Stop freaking out. You won the spelling lottery - a kid who reads and spells easily. She's not going to hit a wall. She is going to be fine. If she does, in a couple of years, start having some sort of spelling issue, tackle it then. Don't borrow trouble. I don't think she's likely to need a full program down the line at all. :)

Lol, thanks, I think I needed to hear that. ;) I have OCD and too much free time, so obsessing over stupid stuff is kind of a thing with me.

[boscopup]

I've totally btdt with the heavy phonics-based spelling programs. The fact is, not all kids need those. If yours doesn't, don't kill yourself trying to use one.

 

My oldest wasn't really a natural speller, but he did spell well once he'd written a word correctly. A basic list-based spelling program works great for him. At 7, his spelling was pretty awful. At 11, it's pretty good.

 

My third son is a natural speller. The only spelling he's doing is what's in his language arts workbook, and it's pretty light. I didn't even do a full phonics program with him because, like your daughter, I noticed that he could sound out strange huge words and obviously had intuited the phonics. Woohoo! He's the easiest homeschool kid ever.

 

My more struggling speller (and reader) definitely needs spelling instruction, but I found that the programs such as LOE just confused him. It was too much, and there were too many exceptions. He does better with just focusing on a list of words, noticing anything phonetic that helps you spell those words, but otherwise just practicing the word.

 

Oh, and I have used AAS, Spalding, LOE, and a few others. Frankly, I found myself getting confused when focusing too much on rules, especially when you get into larger words. The rules seemed to work great for the early elementary words, but then you get into high school words and it all goes out the window. So for me, thinking up my own think-to-spell method of remembering how to spell those words makes more sense. Those programs are interesting, and you can learn a lot, but you can also get bogged down if you think too much (as my struggling speller tends to do :D).

[blondeviolin]

I'd also wait. If you notice spelling is a bit behind in fourth or fifth grade, I'd run through a year of LOE. Otherwise, I'd leave it be.

[Btervet]

We started using Spelling Power a few months ago and really like it. It is very quick, takes 10 minutes a day. 

 

I don't get rule based spelling. DS will get upset if I ask him to use phonics rules for spelling, because it doesn't work. He was just trying to spell 'freeze' and got angry that there were so many ways to spell a long e. I don't get how rules are suppose to help you with that? You just have to know which way long e is spelled in that word. DS knows all his phonics rules, but they have really been useless as spelling rules. He enjoys SP with tracing words in the air, writing on dry erase boards, and saying the letters out loud, and it seems to be working so far.

[abba12]

Have you looked at Rod and Staff spelling? I think it's fairly rules based, a lot of people have compared it to AAS in scope and thorough-ness, but much less teacher and time intensive, and much more 'get it done and move on'. I'm planning to use it, but haven't started yet so I can't offer much more than that. 

[FO4UR]

In your situation, I would sell the SWR materials to fund a copy of The Writing Road to Reading.

 

Use WRTR for YOUR own self-education in spelling phonograms and rules.  Then do dictation with her.  Pick something from literature, history or science, or a poem.  Study a few words on the board ala WRTR, dictate the sentence, and move along with your day.

 

 

Count yourself very lucky.  You'll have WRTR if and when your dd ever needs more than studied dictation, but she probably won't.

[MerryAtHope]

That was what she hated about AAS, incidentally. Sitting at the table and reciting the sounds for each letter made her run sobbing from the table.

 

If you decide to try AAS again, you don't have to work on those all at once. Work on just a couple and make it really short--show the card, say the sounds, she repeats, that's it. It should only take 1-2 minutes at the most per day. Some additional sounds will come up partway through the program (the 2nd sound of S is used in words like as, his, has...) Make it light & fun & then go into the book. 

[Roadrunner]

LOE will be an expensive misfit. Both my boys are natural spellers. Words in LOE were too easy for them, while advanced words were a bit ridiculous for 6/7 year old. He spelled them no problem, but I am still not sure what was the point of it. In our case we moved to Megawords, which we also don't need, but couple of pages a day gives me comfort that I am a good parent.

 

So wait a year or two and if you really still want a program, look at Megawords.

[Love_to_Read]

I wonder if she might actually like Sequential Spelling. How does she tolerate making mistakes?  The whole program is just word lists...every day they start with a small word and build up to a multi-syllable word.  There are no rules to memorize.  It's just learning via pattern recognition and practice. Try to spell the next word based on the previous word, just trial and error.  It appeals to intuitive learners who don't want to memorize the rules and phonograms...I'm thinking it might fit her since she intuitively picked up reading so easily.

 

Anyhow...it's cheap if you just get the regular book, esp. used.  It can be made more independent if you get the video.  It can be made more expensive if you tack on the workbook to write in...all they really need is cheap notebook paper.

[Love_to_Read]

Or alternately, you could browse some of the public spelling lists on Spelling City online, and just do that for free.

 

For my natural speller, I took the lists from AAS and input them into Spelling City.  He does their "Teach Me" feature one day, then "Test Me" the next day, and is just flying through the levels we own until I find a level where he stops getting 100% all the time.  I already own it for my struggling spellers, and he gets a kick out of having a computer turn and spelling, so it works for me to see that I'm not creating gaps by letting him skip to a high level.  I do kind of flip through the manual to see when the next rule is introduced, and tell him the rule before he does the word list on the computer.  And I try to do the dictation with him periodically, since that's more of a mixed practice over time.  If he started missing older words in the dictation, then I might make him slow down and do more practice for better retention...but so far, he's fine.

He did memorize the phonograms, though, so I can't guarantee the results would be exactly the same by skipping them entirely for your child, but that's the gist of how I handle my natural speller without making a mountain out of it.  You might be able to adapt something like that with the lists from one of the programs you already own.

[Guest henrtenaitn]

there are enough things we need to do with our time.

[Susan in TX]

You don't need a Spelling curriculum for a natural speller. I would get a vocabulary program instead. If you notice her misspelling words later on THEN you can start a spelling program that will address that. I stopped using a spelling curriculum with my oldest because she could already spell all the words in the 3rd grade spelling book and she was only in first grade. I re-introduced spelling in 7th and 8th grade but it was more for the vocabulary than spelling (we used Rod and Staff and the 7th and 8th grade covers greek and latin roots.) Only once in her life did she get a spelling word wrong on a test, and that was in high school. She says it was because the teacher mispronounced the word.

 

Susan in TX

[strawberryjam]

I second (third?) Spelling Power. It's so easy to implement, and it actually does teach the spelling rules. Each list covers a specific spelling rule which is discussed before quizzing. One of the things I love about it is the assessments. The daily lists are so easy. I hated that AAS doesn't have daily lists, it would be a much better program if it did. AAS is also way too expensive for what you get. All 7 levels should be in one book IMO. I love that Spelling Power is one book to cover all the spelling rules and all grades.

 

We started off with AAS 1 and 2, then switched to Spelling Workout, and Spelling Power is my unicorn - lol. With my second kid I'm using AAS 1 and/or Spelling Workout and then moving on to Spelling Power (SP is recommended for age 8 and up).

 

ETA: We also tried Sequential Spelling and the spelling in CLE LA. Sequential Spelling was a BIG FLOP. The spelling in CLE was not bad but I preferred having a program where my kid could work ahead if he already knew the words and Spelling Power allows him to do that.

[Bluegoat]

I wonder if she might actually like Sequential Spelling. How does she tolerate making mistakes?  The whole program is just word lists...every day they start with a small word and build up to a multi-syllable word.  There are no rules to memorize.  It's just learning via pattern recognition and practice. Try to spell the next word based on the previous word, just trial and error.  It appeals to intuitive learners who don't want to memorize the rules and phonograms...I'm thinking it might fit her since she intuitively picked up reading so easily.

 

Anyhow...it's cheap if you just get the regular book, esp. used.  It can be made more independent if you get the video.  It can be made more expensive if you tack on the workbook to write in...all they really need is cheap notebook paper.

 

We used SS and it has worked really well.  We also didn't use the videos or anything complicated - just the one book for me with the lists, and paper for dd to write down her answers - we got the answer book but i wouldn't again, but it was still very inexpensive.  Under 10 min a day, cheap, and dead simple.  There isn't really even much 'studying".

 

I would give it a try with  natural speller who just needed a bit of polishing. 

[Ellie]

I've been trying for a year to figure out what to do for spelling for dd, and I STILL DON'T KNOW.  :banghead:  I know I've posted about it here before, so forgive me if you're reading this and feeling a sense of deja vu.

 

Here's a quick rundown:

 

Dd (just turned seven and starting second grade in a month) is a fluent reader. She can sound out any word I throw at her, even six syllable behemoths, but she doesn't always know what they mean. Her vocabulary isn't behind, it just hasn't caught up to her reading level. We did phonics very briefly when she was four, up to silent e stuff, and then she basically taught herself to read overnight, so she hasn't had any real phonics to speak of. As such, I'd like to use a phonics-based spelling program. She seems to be a fairly natural speller and rarely misspells a word, but I still have this fear that she's going to grow up and curse me for the rest of her life because she doesn't know all the spelling rules or something. 

 

I have AAS1 which we tried last year and quit after a week because dd hated it, Spell to Write and Read and the WISE Guide (picked them up in Goodwill for two bucks each, score!) and Logic of English Essentials TM and workbook, which a friend gave me. (I know, you'd think with all these curricula laying around I'd just pick one and go with it, but I swear it makes it even harder.)

 

When I read about SWR on the internet it sounded great, but once I picked up the TM and actually began reading I just about died from how complicated it is. Plus I'd have to secularize it, which would be a lot of extra work. And did I mention it looks complicated? Holy cow. 

 

LoE looks like SWR but easier and more parent-friendly, right? But I'd still have to buy a lot more stuff, from what I'm seeing. Do I really need the game book? And the game cards? And the phonogram cards? I have phonogram apps on my phone. Also, dd doesn't know all the phonograms. Like, if I hold up a card with an "a" on it, she couldn't tell me the four (?) sounds that "a" makes. Does she need to learn this before she starts one of these programs, or will she work on it during? I've read the intros and stuff, but I'm still a bit fuzzy on that.  They all say she needs to be familiar with the phonograms A to Z, but I'm unclear about whether that means she needs to just know and be able to write the letters, or if she needs to know all the sounds, or what. That was what she hated about AAS, incidentally. Sitting at the table and reciting the sounds for each letter made her run sobbing from the table.

 

I'm leaning toward LoE, because I like that it doesn't look super complicated and that it includes grammar, vocab, etc. But I just don't know. Will it be overkill for a natural reader/speller? Which extras should I buy if I do use it?

 

I'm going to go bang my head against the wall now. And cry. And then possibly drink.

 

 

Spalding. Just do Spalding. It's the mother of LOE and SWR, anyway, and it's way less expensive and with fewer moving parts to get the job done (one manual, one set of phonogram cards, a spelling notebook each year), and I promise you it is not that difficult to learn to teach. Honest. I'll help you. :hat:

 

[mohop]

Your description of your DD is exactly how I would describe my 7-year old rising-2nd grader DD (even up to how I taught her her phonics up to silent E and then she started reading any and everything almost overnight).  And like you, I have been debating spelling options for the past year.  I recently found a copy of The Phonetic Zoo on ebay for a good price and  have decided to go with that.  I especially like that it requires relatively little involvment on my part (unlike AAS), which is good considering that I also have a 4 yr old and toddler.  I gave my DD the placement test online on the IEW website and she feel right where they recommend starting with The Phonetic Zoo level A.  I'm just super happy to have finally bit the bullet and gotten something, so I can stop feeling bad about neglecting spelling.  My DD is reading books meant for middle schoolers, but she's really reticent with writing, largely because she's not comfortable with spelling yet. 

 

ETA: I re-read your post and saw where you said you already have a few options that you've purchased.  In that case, I'd just pick one and try it out and not buy anything new.  Good luck!

[Hunter]

I have yet to find a spelling program worth the time and money. We can send a man to the moon, but we can't write a decent spelling curriculum.

 

I can be OCD too, and I see all the inefficient parts in each one and it drives me batty.

 

Part of my OCD makes me care how a book feels in my hands. I'm just using How to Tutor when I absolutely NEED a phonics curriculum, because it is one of the very few choices that is not 8x11.

 

They all stink if you have OCD. Buy something you like and want to use in a subject other than spelling for THIS year. Maybe something good will come out by next year.

 

Applying rules is a logic level skill not a grammar skill. It's classical to wait, in my opinion.

[Caviar]

Here's another vote for R&S Spelling by Sound and Structure - if you want the rules and not teacher intensive.  It obviously would not be secular.  Or, another person mentioned RLTL - a much easier approach, but based on the same method, as SWR.