When you ask your kids to read, and they cry

[chilliepepper]

Seriously. I asked my two boys, ages almost-10 and 8, to spend 30 minutes reading today.

 

The 10 year old cried. The 8yo said "reading huuuuuuurrrrrts his eeeeeeyyyyyyyyeeeeesssss" and suddenly desperately needed some resting time on the sofa.

 

They are not horrible readers. I started aloud with an easy, light book for each of them. They were interested in the stories. However, they apparently just want to be spoon fed.

 

WWYD? Do they just need to get used to the idea? I generally required a half hour of independent reading several times per week during the school year, but we've had a long break from that as the school year wound down and we went on a long trip, during which they read MUCH LESS than I would have liked.

 

Am I unreasonable to ask for 30 blessed minutes of reading from them?

[OneStepAtATime]

That depends. If they have a developmental vision issue then reading may very well be painful. That type of eye issue may not even show up at all in a standard eye screening.

[Tsuga]

My kids do that for pretty much everything when they are in a bad mood and that's why they're public schooled and I supplement with a lot of bribery.

 

I think they just feel like--"Mom's asking, so it must be the end of the world. I know! Whenever I cry, I get a reaction. What was that reaction? Hm, can't remember. But there was some kind of... I remember she did talk to me and there was some kind of effect... let me try that, whining and crying."

[PeterPan]

www.covd.org  Get their eyes checked and make sure there isn't actually a reason why they're saying their eyes hurt.  I can't stop my dyslexic from trying to read, and he has every reason not to.  If a kid with no disability says his eyes hurt, I'd get his eyes checked.  Like OneStep said, it needs to be a developmental optometrist, because they're the ones who screen for the extra things (convergence, focusing, etc.) to tell you if there's actually something going on.  Let the boys describe their symptoms and the doc can sort it out.

[HS Mom in NC]

I'm assuming the eye pain thing has never come up before during regular school time.  If it has, get it checked. If this is the first time and you suspect it might be legitimate, get it checked.

 

I don't let it bother me when my kids act dramatic and overwhelmed by being told to do something.  I'm a firm believer that learning to do things you don't want to do is an essential life skill that applies to a huge percentage of adult life. They should start practicing it now.   I explain that they're over reacting and if they don't do it without complaining they'll lose screen time for the next two days.  If they continue to complain they'll lose play time with their friends.  If they continue to complain I'll add an extra chore for every complaint. If I run out of ideas for extra chores I'll call my mother for suggestions because making up extra chores for obnoxious kids on the fly was her super power.

[ikslo]

My response to DS8 when he whines about the daily 30 minutes I have assigned him M-F this summer:

 

"Suck it up, cupcake!"

 

He would just rather be doing...well, almost anything else.  He was really stoked when he finished his book yesterday, though.  He even said he likes it once he gets started, it's just hard to pull himself away from the other stuff.

[chilliepepper]

I'll keep an eye out (pun intended) for further eye complaints; however I am skeptical as this child is the king of sudden-onset physical maladies whenever he is asked to do something that's not his favorite. Hunger, thirst, fatigue and needing to go to the bathroom are his everyday tricks. Eye pain is a new one...not going to ignore it, but also not making that appointment today.

 

My response to DS8 when he whines about the daily 30 minutes I have assigned him M-F this summer:

 

"Suck it up, cupcake!"

 

He would just rather be doing...well, almost anything else.  He was really stoked when he finished his book yesterday, though.  He even said he likes it once he gets started, it's just hard to pull himself away from the other stuff.

 

Well, yeah. And that's what I did today. I guess my underlying question, though, is WHY they find reading to be so dreadful, and what can I do to fix it?

 

Can I fix it?

 

Or are there some kids who will just never enjoy reading?

[Aurelia]

It's probably because it's a new request, and is, therefore, HORRIBLE and UNFAIR. DD was like this for awhile, essentially I told her to suck it up, and now she likes reading. Sometimes I have to threaten to take away her book so she will go to sleep. 

[ikslo]

What are you trying to get them to read?  Do you let them pick, ask for suggestions? 

Do you model the behavior and read yourself?

Do you do read-alouds?

 

 

[chilliepepper]

Today, I let them pick from about five options. Usually if I leave it wide open and tell them they can pick anything (except Garfield, Calvin and Hobbes or their 39th rereading of some Wimpy Kid book), my 8yo will tell me there's nothing in the house that he wants to read. Every option I suggest: no, he doesn't want to read that. Often, I have to just pick something for him and make him read it. He will not pick for himself. Then he complains about what I pick. Sometimes doesn't even read it---just sits or lays around for 30 minutes.

 

We do read alouds every day. Everyday. Sometimes twice a day.

 

They don't see me reading, except when I read to them. I know, you don't have to say it...they are following my lead.

 

But darn it, they are the ones saying they are bored! Bored people should read!

[ikslo]

1. Maybe go to the library (or bookstore) and let them pick.  Anything.  It's how DS discovered graphic novels. 

 

2. Ask them for suggestions of topics.  That's how I discovered DS wanted to read war books.  NOT something I would have picked.

 

3. Sit on the couch for the weekend ignoring everyone and reading a book.  Make it look like so much fun you'd ignore your own family just to do it. 

 

 

Okay, maybe #3 won't work for you, because you actually care about a clean house? (I prefer a good book to a clean house.)  If that is the case, substitute the following:

 

 

3. Ask Farrar for book suggestions.  So far she has yet to disappoint. :)

 

[PeterPan]

Well now you know why they don't want to read, lol.  You won't let them read the stuff that's worthwhile!  Garfield and Calvin & Hobbes are FABULOUS for kids this age.  My dd is an off the charts good reader, and they were mothers milk for her for YEARS AND YEARS!!  

 

Kids pleasure read multiple grades behind their ability to decode, and they need to pleasure read like that in large amounts to build proficiency.  Calvin & Hobbes has great vocabulary, short sentences, and is fine reading for them.  And if humor is what they like, get them MORE, not less.  

 

Maybe your issue is genre?  The VP catalog sometimes has some gems.  Anything that was a Sonlight read aloud for a lower level core can become an engaging reader for older kids.  I'd try getting them more books at that lower reading level in a variety of genres and see what resonates with them.  I'm *guessing* when you drop the restriction on grade level and genre, things improve.  I'm not one for tripe, there there's a lot out there that is valuable for building proficiency.  There are also Shakespeare comics btw.  VP sells them.  

 

Do you have a kindle or android tablet so they can do immersion reading?  

[PeterPan]

 

But darn it, they are the ones saying they are bored! Bored people should read!

I assume you've given them accounts on the computer and taught them to type, so they can read what adults read who are bored: the internet.  :D

[chilliepepper]

Well now you know why they don't want to read, lol.  You won't let them read the stuff that's worthwhile!  Garfield and Calvin & Hobbes are FABULOUS for kids this age.  My dd is an off the charts good reader, and they were mothers milk for her for YEARS AND YEARS!!  

 

Kids pleasure read multiple grades behind their ability to decode, and they need to pleasure read like that in large amounts to build proficiency.  Calvin & Hobbes has great vocabulary, short sentences, and is fine reading for them.  And if humor is what they like, get them MORE, not less.  

 

Maybe your issue is genre?  The VP catalog sometimes has some gems.  Anything that was a Sonlight read aloud for a lower level core can become an engaging reader for older kids.  I'd try getting them more books at that lower reading level in a variety of genres and see what resonates with them.  I'm *guessing* when you drop the restriction on grade level and genre, things improve.  I'm not one for tripe, there there's a lot out there that is valuable for building proficiency.  There are also Shakespeare comics btw.  VP sells them.  

 

Do you have a kindle or android tablet so they can do immersion reading?  

Haha. I'm actually fine with them reading Garfield and C&H, but it's ALL my 8yo really wants to read. Maybe I should just say hey, it's summertime, knock yourself out? Read all of them?

 

They each have their own personal basic kindle. I've loaded some stuff on there, but somehow it seems to lack the pizazz they are looking for. We also have a Kindle Fire. What would you suggest I could load onto any of the above that might entice them?

[chilliepepper]

I assume you've given them accounts on the computer and taught them to type, so they can read what adults read who are bored: the internet.   :D

 

Ack! Don't scare me!

[ikslo]

Maybe I should just say hey, it's summertime, knock yourself out? Read all of them?

 

Yes, yes you should. :)

[chilliepepper]

I've had a little bit of difficulty finding material at the right level for the 8yo. By this age, my other guy was reading Percy Jackson and I find there's a lot more at that level. Seems like DS8 needs stuff more on the level of Magic Treehouse or so (but he got tired of those).

 

One book that he did actually read from cover to cover recently was an old favorite of my childhood: Key to the Treasure by Peggy Parish. So I went ahead and got my hands on five or six other books in the same series (didn't even know it was a series till I looked up the original on Amazon and saw the related titles). Two of those are the ones I started aloud today; thought they would be big hits. The jury's out; maybe they will catch on. I was just disappointed with today's reaction.

 

They didn't really like the Boxcar Children, much to my disappointment. It's been a couple years, though...maybe I should try some of those again.

 

Any other suggestions?

[chilliepepper]

Yes, yes you should. :)

Ok, off to the library we go.

 

(but am I asking too much to ask them to also read SOMETHING else?)

[PeterPan]

I wasn't joking about the internet. If you set them up with a user account (which works on mac and windows), you can put parental controls on there and control what they can do.  On a mac I can limit a user account to specific websites, times, keep private logs, etc.  So you could pick 2-3 useful sites and let them join.  For instance, they might like the Make Magazine website.  There are forums, a way to submit projects, etc., and it's age-appropriate.  Bye bye boredom.

 

Yes, my dd tried to read only comics, lol.  Remember, my dh is (insert labels), and almost the entire extent of his book collection as a kid was comics and Hardy Boys, maybe a few war novels.  He has a full bookshelf of vintage comic books and dd INHALED them, lol.  I tried taking them away, and she'd find them.  Around that binging stage I did the genre diversity worksheet, where I made a worksheet listing a bunch of genres and required her, by the end of the week, to have read something for each genre.  Beyond that I didn't care what she did.  

 

She still likes comics btw.  She really liked Sam Campbell about the age your kids are.  Foo, it doesn't look like they're available as ebooks.  Maybe someday.  They may have gone oop again.  Get a set though and see what your kids think.  My dd loved them.  She loved the BoxCar books and the COFAs (Childhood of Famous Americans) series.  She loved anything from the TruthQuest guides because she's very into history.  I have thousands of books at my house.  When people come, they start reading.  It's kinda like s*x--there needs to be availability.   :D

 

My ds is into all things weapons, so he listens to Swiss Family Robinson, The Three Musketeers, anything with weapons and adventure.  Your library should have audiobooks that you can check out online using your kindle fire.  I suggest you incentivize the reading with some kind of contest and reward system and then broaden dramatically what classifies as reading.  So make some kind of chart where they color in small squares or whatever as they read 15 minutes.  Any form of reading (audiobooks, immersion reading, eye reading, braile, whatever) counts.  Then make the contest BETWEEN THE TWO kids, hehe...  Have maybe small daily prizes, a small weekly prize, and a bigger month prize  or something.  That way they always have ways to win but are motivated to keep trying.  You want to set up a culture that values words in ALL forms.  And hey, if they tie because they're constantly listening to audiobooks trying to one-up each other, it's all good, kwim?  Put some tiers on there that multiply the prizes... So like your hour number is your multiplier on the value of the prize.  1 hour and 15 minutes is just a multiplier of 1, but 2 hours and 15 minutes is a multiplier of 2, meaning a DOUBLE value.  Go big, go wild, kwim?  You're trying to change a culture and that takes enthusiasm.  Food is enthusiasm.  I'd be paying in minutes, a penny per minute, and those pennies you can trade for gift cards to local food places.  That's boy currency.   :D

 

[PeterPan]

I've had a little bit of difficulty finding material at the right level for the 8yo. By this age, my other guy was reading Percy Jackson and I find there's a lot more at that level. Seems like DS8 needs stuff more on the level of Magic Treehouse or so (but he got tired of those).

 

One book that he did actually read from cover to cover recently was an old favorite of my childhood: Key to the Treasure by Peggy Parish. So I went ahead and got my hands on five or six other books in the same series (didn't even know it was a series till I looked up the original on Amazon and saw the related titles). Two of those are the ones I started aloud today; thought they would be big hits. The jury's out; maybe they will catch on. I was just disappointed with today's reaction.

 

They didn't really like the Boxcar Children, much to my disappointment. It's been a couple years, though...maybe I should try some of those again.

 

Any other suggestions?

I do my book shopping on amazon, then I open up a tab for the library and place holds for everything.  Go to the library and pick up.  Love shopping at the library that way.   :D

 

The reason you shop on amazon first is because you get the rabbit trail recommendations.  So when you look up Key to the Treasure, you'll get this  http://www.amazon.com/Key-Treasure-Liza-Bill-Mysteries/dp/0440444381/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1434767042&sr=8-1&keywords=peggy+parish+key+to+the+treasure Then it has 3 pages of additional recommendations.  I see Avi books, Jean Frizt, Dalgliesh.  All those look like good options at that level.  There are other good ones. Also look in the VP catalog and SL, like I was saying.  VP has grade leveled literature recs using real books, but they also have history recs across levels within each year.  So, if you you're doing say the Middle Ages, you can look at the VP catalog and see what books they suggest for lower grades for Middle Ages.  It will be in the 4th grade section of the catalog, but they'll list lower.  They specifically have book sets for boys reading at this level in their lit recs.  

 

My dd loved Magic Treehouse.  Yes, it may just have been too soon for the Boxcar.  You might try them now.  It would be expensive, but I *think* you can get them as immersion with audible and use them on the fire.  I just would not be real picky about how they're reading.  The data shows kids with dyslexia made SIGNIFICANT gains in reading using immersion reading (where the text highlights as the audio plays), so how much more beneficial to non-disability kids.  Kids can jump multiple grade levels doing this.  If they ear read using audiobooks, again they're just building their vocabulary and grammatical understanding so they're better prepared to recognize what they're reading when they try.  The issue is to surround them with language.  The particular mode of reading doesn't have to be the deal breaker.  Barring a disability, they'll probably sort it out in the wash, kwim?  Even my ds with a reading disability I try to stay just behind his desire.  I teach, teach, teach like all get out, but it's more important to me to make reading so pervasive, so desirable, and so WITHIN REACH that he will reach out and grasp it for himself.  So I'm a by all means kinda woman, kwim?  

[PeterPan]

If you're religious, the NIrV is written about a 2nd/3rd grade reading level and might be accessible to your younger dc.  It was my dd's first Bible and she used it for years.  

 

Don't be scared of the comics, especially if they're GOOD comics.  Just try to bring in some diversity as well.  Make a place on the log for genres and let them earn a DIME instead of just a penny for minutes, when the book is a different genre.  So you could put on there a spot that says non-fiction science, biography, poetry, fairy tale, etc. and for each book they can fill in the whole circle, even if the whole science book (Lets Read and Find Out, Step, whatever) only took 5-7 minutes.  Incentivize and reward what you want to have happen more.  :)

[chilliepepper]

Lots to think through here...I'm overwhelmed. Of all of the above, what would you say is the one thing to do first?

 

And a question about incentivizing time spent reading, or finishing a book: What about the kid who will say he was reading when really he wasn't, or will say he read a book when he really didn't? Do we just count time spent with a book in front of his face, and hope that he will one day decide that actually reading the book is more fun than sitting with it?

[Rosie_0801]

Lots to think through here...I'm overwhelmed. Of all of the above, what would you say is the one thing to do first?

 

Borrow Asterix comics. Get caught stealing them off the boys so you can read them yourself. :D Threaten to read slowly if they won't eat their vegetables?

[ElizabethB]

A to Z mysteries.

 

Also, you might have them choose 30 minutes of easy reading or 10 minutes of working on getting their reading grade level up to 12th grade level so reading anything will be easy and painless, here is how:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/WellTaughtPhonicsStudent.html

[RootAnn]

But darn it, they are the ones saying they are bored! Bored people should read!

 

If mine say they are bored, I give them either more chores or schoolwork. 

 

Very often, you will find them 1) listening to an audiobook, 2) playing outside or with toys, 3) playing with each other, 4) reading on their own, or 5) drawing (dd#2, both ds). Very seldom will you hear them say they are bored. They might act it, but they won't say it.

[PeterPan]

Lots to think through here...I'm overwhelmed. Of all of the above, what would you say is the one thing to do first?

 

And a question about incentivizing time spent reading, or finishing a book: What about the kid who will say he was reading when really he wasn't, or will say he read a book when he really didn't? Do we just count time spent with a book in front of his face, and hope that he will one day decide that actually reading the book is more fun than sitting with it?

Well that's a parenting dynamic question.  I mean, to me, I expect honesty.  I wouldn't assign the reading or require the reading.  I'd just give them the logs and say if you want to fine, if you don't, fine, but that if you DO it you sure better be HONEST.

 

Your local library may have a summer reading program.  I'm just saying if you're too tired to go to theirs, you can make your own.  Either way works.  :)

[Ellie]

Mine would probably have cried, too, but then I never required them to read, so there's that.

 

I read aloud to them from good books, one chapter a day, each day that we were home, right after lunch. We went to the library weekly; all books had to be returned whether they had been read or not (the only way I could avoid overdue charges :blushing: ), and each dc was allowed to check out whatever she wanted to, or nothing at all. They always took their books to their rooms when we came home, and probably read for half an hour. I just didn't require them to.

[boscopup]

I have an 8 year old who reads at Magic Tree House level also, and both his brothers read at a much higher level than him. It's not fun to read when you have to work at it. Things that encourage him... 1) picture books!, 2) nonfiction books. I learned #2 with my oldest when he was a very advanced young reader but didn't like the novels I was giving him. He actually didn't care for fiction at that point. He does read fiction now (LOTR sparked that interest, and now he has several series he likes), but when he was younger, he'd read more if I gave him science or history. In fact, SOTW is what really built his stamina in first grade. He totally loved it.

 

Another thing that gets my kids reading is going to the library, picking out a slew of books, then coming home and reading what they just picked out, since Mom is mean and won't let them have screen time. ;)

 

This year for 3rd grade, I'm hoping to get my 8 year old reading longer books. I've got some easy novels picked out that I'll have him read a chapter per day. They're fun books that aren't very intimidating. Size and difficulty are similar to Magic Tree House. I'll also have him researching science topics with his younger brother. That will get him reading more challenging texts without realizing it. ;) He really likes science.

[HS Mom in NC]

Everyday (or almost every day in the summer) I have a read aloud going that I picked and my husband has a read aloud going that he picked. About an hour before bedtime I send youngest to bed to read to herself whatever she likes.

[Incognito]

Barnes and Noble has its summer reading thing now, where you earn a free book after reading 8 books.  You can get the log in the stores or somewhere online.  You could use that as an incentive.

 

FWIW, I think it is easy to kill a love for almost anything if you tell someone they MUST do X for X amount of time a day.  

 

The drive to read will be really hard to grow internally when there is an overwhelming external force requiring it already.

 

Can you tell I always hated the idea of timed daily reading? ;)  But I read voraciously as a child, and still read quite a bit.  If someone had told me I *had to* read, I probably would have quit when I was seven.

 

 

[Ausmumof3]

Well in our house

 

I have a rule that you go to bed at eight...

 

But you are allowed to read in bed, otherwise you go to sleep.

 

My kids hates sleep more than he hates reading, so he is now an enthusiastic reader even though he used to hate it.

 

Also agreeing on the Asterix and similar comics.

[chilliepepper]

Well that's a parenting dynamic question.  I mean, to me, I expect honesty.  I wouldn't assign the reading or require the reading.  I'd just give them the logs and say if you want to fine, if you don't, fine, but that if you DO it you sure better be HONEST.

 

Well, of course I expect honesty. That is to say, I teach them that lying is wrong. We listen to and read stories about the pitfalls of lying. I don't lie to them. If I catch them lying, there are consequences. My kids know that if they lie, they won't be trusted---and trust is a good thing. Yet...I have a child who lies. This is the one who will say he brushed his teeth, but you go check and his toothbrush is dry. He will say he did the chore, but you go look and the chore is not done. 

 

Oh by the way, they both do other sins too, even ones I have worked hard at teaching them not to---ones that I "expect" them not to do. My parenting dynamic is lacking in other areas as well. And gosh, I myself even sin. Guess my parents missed the mark somewhere along the way.

 

So I can SAY "you better be honest," but with this guy, I can't guarantee that he won't check off the box without reading the book. So I was just wondering if there's a good way, short of giving a comprehension quiz after each reading period or making him read out loud (a surefire way to get this kid to cry), to ensure that he's not just checking the box to get the incentive.

[chilliepepper]

If mine say they are bored, I give them either more chores or schoolwork. 

 

Me too. I just want them to LIKE it (reading, that is), gosh darn it! LOL

[chilliepepper]

This year for 3rd grade, I'm hoping to get my 8 year old reading longer books. I've got some easy novels picked out that I'll have him read a chapter per day. They're fun books that aren't very intimidating. Size and difficulty are similar to Magic Tree House. 

 

Can you share some specifics? What are the easy novels of which you speak?

[chilliepepper]

 

FWIW, I think it is easy to kill a love for almost anything if you tell someone they MUST do X for X amount of time a day.  

 

The drive to read will be really hard to grow internally when there is an overwhelming external force requiring it already.

 

Can you tell I always hated the idea of timed daily reading? ;)  But I read voraciously as a child, and still read quite a bit.  If someone had told me I *had to* read, I probably would have quit when I was seven.

 

The whole intrinsic/extrinsic motivation thing. I get what you're saying...but nobody would ever tell a voracious reader that he/she "had" to read.

 

So are you suggesting that I just let them off the hook? Keep reading to them, and be ok with it if they never choose to pick up a book on their own?

[chilliepepper]

Sorry for the posting marathon, just following up on what was said after I went to bed. :)

 

I suppose the elephant in the room here is that I do let them play video games. I limit it (30 minutes twice a day, after chores are done, except Sundays which are screen free), but it is there. And, beyond their video game time, they are currently obsessed with finding and listening to songs they have downloaded from their favorite game du jour, and also playing around with Garageband and making their own songs. I have been of the "all things in moderation" perspective.

 

However, what I don't like about video games, even on a limited basis, is that they seem to kill my kids' enjoyment of other things---such as reading, playing with toys etc.

 

So there is the route of just going screen free for the summer (at least). They would HATE me if I did that. And it may or may not push them to books---I just don't know. It could totally backfire if they knew I did it to try to get them to read. Thoughts?

[chilliepepper]

Also, you might have them choose 30 minutes of easy reading or 10 minutes of working on getting their reading grade level up to 12th grade level so reading anything will be easy and painless, here is how:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/WellTaughtPhonicsStudent.html

 

Oooooh I've seen that website recommended before and did look at it some. I'll have to go check it out again. Also will look into Asterix Comics.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions (and keep them coming); I have my work cut out for me!

[chilliepepper]

Just one more question for now: What's the best source for Asterix comics? Our library doesn't have them, grrrr. Should I just order a few from Amazon for starters?

[PeterPan]

Well, of course I expect honesty. That is to say, I teach them that lying is wrong. We listen to and read stories about the pitfalls of lying. I don't lie to them. If I catch them lying, there are consequences. My kids know that if they lie, they won't be trusted---and trust is a good thing. Yet...I have a child who lies. This is the one who will say he brushed his teeth, but you go check and his toothbrush is dry. He will say he did the chore, but you go look and the chore is not done. 

 

Oh by the way, they both do other sins too, even ones I have worked hard at teaching them not to---ones that I "expect" them not to do. My parenting dynamic is lacking in other areas as well. And gosh, I myself even sin. Guess my parents missed the mark somewhere along the way.

 

So I can SAY "you better be honest," but with this guy, I can't guarantee that he won't check off the box without reading the book. So I was just wondering if there's a good way, short of giving a comprehension quiz after each reading period or making him read out loud (a surefire way to get this kid to cry), to ensure that he's not just checking the box to get the incentive.

Well I'll just toss this out, but there's a whole lot of immaturity and obliviousness that would result in what you're saying, and it's not quite the same as intentionally marking down 5 hours if you only read 1, kwim?  

 

Have you thought of doing some reading on executive function and ADHD?  The parenting techniques are good for all kinds of kids, and you might find some things in there to help you.  

 

There's a big gap from telling someone something is wrong to supporting them so they can do what's right.  Like if you ask a kid a question and he's not really paying attention or doesn't care and doesn't like the consequences to the answer, you sorta penned him in.  So then you're upset at the outcome, but you didn't do anything to CHANGE the scenario, kwim?  You can come along with supports so that he CAN achieve your desired outcome.  Some kids just need a LOT more support and explicit instruction than others.  That's what executive function delays mean, that they can't pull it together and make it happen themselves.  You can actually do things to support that process.  

 

Somehow in our christianity (or whatever flavor or non-flavor you are), we get really into what's wrong, but we don't put a lot of stock into methods that help them actually DO what's right.  Like those rewards for reading.  We go oh no, can't reward, they should do it because they want to.  Well that's cool and fine and dandy if your kid is so mature that he pulls it together and makes it happen on his own.  But most people are immature enough that some rewards help them get over that hump.  Similarly, some kids can pick up their rooms just by being told, and some kids need picture charts to make it happen.  (My ds is the latter, as in seriously I have picture charts on the wall showing him the steps and where things go.)  So we need to make these steps SMALL so our kids achieve SUCCESS.  When the steps are too big, we constantly hit on this wall of failure, slam.  We want to make the steps smaller and provide more support so we can have a more positive, successful atmosphere where they get the reward of pleasing us and can come to learn how that feels and enjoy that.  

 

Sermon over, lol.

[PeterPan]

Sorry for the posting marathon, just following up on what was said after I went to bed. :)

 

I suppose the elephant in the room here is that I do let them play video games. I limit it (30 minutes twice a day, after chores are done, except Sundays which are screen free), but it is there. And, beyond their video game time, they are currently obsessed with finding and listening to songs they have downloaded from their favorite game du jour, and also playing around with Garageband and making their own songs. I have been of the "all things in moderation" perspective.

 

However, what I don't like about video games, even on a limited basis, is that they seem to kill my kids' enjoyment of other things---such as reading, playing with toys etc.

 

So there is the route of just going screen free for the summer (at least). They would HATE me if I did that. And it may or may not push them to books---I just don't know. It could totally backfire if they knew I did it to try to get them to read. Thoughts?

You could go the opposite direction and show up with a laundry basket of books on minecraft and things for their videogames, kwim?  Sorta beat 'em at their own game.  :)

 

I don't think screen *elimination* is necessarily the best or only route, but I think no matter what it's fair game to have screen-free times in the day.  Before 3pm is screen free unless your work is done (school work and 2 hours of reading, yes the 2 hours)  After 8pm could be screen free.  Like the others, I put my dd to bed early and told her she was welcome to stay up reading.  

 

Use the parental controls on the devices to lock them out during those windows (8pm to whatever).

[Ausmumof3]

Well, of course I expect honesty. That is to say, I teach them that lying is wrong. We listen to and read stories about the pitfalls of lying. I don't lie to them. If I catch them lying, there are consequences. My kids know that if they lie, they won't be trusted---and trust is a good thing. Yet...I have a child who lies. This is the one who will say he brushed his teeth, but you go check and his toothbrush is dry. He will say he did the chore, but you go look and the chore is not done.

 

Oh by the way, they both do other sins too, even ones I have worked hard at teaching them not to---ones that I "expect" them not to do. My parenting dynamic is lacking in other areas as well. And gosh, I myself even sin. Guess my parents missed the mark somewhere along the way.

 

So I can SAY "you better be honest," but with this guy, I can't guarantee that he won't check off the box without reading the book. So I was just wondering if there's a good way, short of giving a comprehension quiz after each reading period or making him read out loud (a surefire way to get this kid to cry), to ensure that he's not just checking the box to get the incentive.

I think for some kids if they think lying is easier it can quickly become a habit. So if you ask if they did a task and don't check they lie. It's better (though more effort) to check these things yourself, rather than setting up a kid to tell a lie.

[RootAnn]

Thinking on this comment:

 

 So I was just wondering if there's a good way, short of giving a comprehension quiz after each reading period or making him read out loud (a surefire way to get this kid to cry), to ensure that he's not just checking the box to get the incentive.

 

If you don't know the storyline, it is hard to ask ... but if you read the back of the book summary, you might ask how it all came out? Or "what was [so-and-so] like?" I wouldn't ask it as a grilling-type question, more as an interested-in-the-storyline thing. I wouldn't snap at the kid if they couldn't answer the question, though. If it was a good book, my kids are usually more than happy to tell me something they liked or didn't like about it. My oldest will almost always say, "It was boring" if she didn't read much of it. But, she's also pretty honest in saying she didn't read the book when she didn't read it.

 

How do you make kids like to read? You can't. You can lead a horse to water, drink some of the water yourself, but you can't make the horse drink it. (My late father would add, "But I can sure make you wish you had!") 

 

I didn't like reading when I was younger. (It was hard. I was a late bloomer. I didn't like any of the same books my sister liked. Etc.) My mother sent me to summer school after 3rd grade (I think)  to improve my "reading" even though my teacher gave her the results of my standardized tests and said I didn't need it. I hated that class. I resolved to at least pretend to read so she didn't do that to me again. I finally found some good books (that my sister didn't like) and learned to love reading. Self-preservation, I suppose. I don't recommend that method, though.

[chilliepepper]

Well I'll just toss this out, but there's a whole lot of immaturity and obliviousness that would result in what you're saying, and it's not quite the same as intentionally marking down 5 hours if you only read 1, kwim?  

 

I'm not sure whether I know what you mean or not. Do you mean that perhaps what seems to me to be intentional lying on his part is maybe not really quite that? If so, yeah---you may be right.

 

 

 

Have you thought of doing some reading on executive function and ADHD?  The parenting techniques are good for all kinds of kids, and you might find some things in there to help you.  

 

Not sure where to start, but it sounds like a good idea. This is not the first conversation about this kid that has drifted toward topics related to ADHD. When he was in school, none of his teachers ever brought it up...but now that I have him at home, I do wonder. But either way---yeah, reading up on this would probably be beneficial. Let me know if you have any recommended websites or books.

 

 

 

Somehow in our christianity (or whatever flavor or non-flavor you are), we get really into what's wrong, but we don't put a lot of stock into methods that help them actually DO what's right.  Like those rewards for reading.  We go oh no, can't reward, they should do it because they want to.  Well that's cool and fine and dandy if your kid is so mature that he pulls it together and makes it happen on his own.  But most people are immature enough that some rewards help them get over that hump.

 

I'm fine with rewards. I think that intrinsic motivation must be awesome for those whose kids have it...but I've mostly given up on it with my kids. I think rewards can be especially helpful when they are on their way to discovering something that takes some practice and skill and WORK to discover---like reading. Once they reach a certain level of proficiency (at least in theory, I guess), they will enjoy it and it will be the reward. Or at least I can hope. It's just with this particular kid, I don't want to set him up in a situation where he's likely to lie to achieve his desired outcome.

[Incognito]

The whole intrinsic/extrinsic motivation thing. I get what you're saying...but nobody would ever tell a voracious reader that he/she "had" to read.

 

So are you suggesting that I just let them off the hook? Keep reading to them, and be ok with it if they never choose to pick up a book on their own?

No, but I'm suggesting you find a way to entice them to read because it rewards them to do it.

 

Well in our house

 

I have a rule that you go to bed at eight...

 

But you are allowed to read in bed, otherwise you go to sleep.

 

My kids hates sleep more than he hates reading, so he is now an enthusiastic reader even though he used to hate it.

 

Also agreeing on the Asterix and similar comics.

 

We also have time to read in bed before lights out.  I think it is a great way to unwind at the end of a day, and it is a good way to make it a positive ( to get to stay up and read!), instead of a negative (you have to not do X, but read now).

 

You said that your kids want to read Calvin and Hobbes.  YEAH!  PERFECT!  They read it.  You continue to read high quality literature to them.

 

Read on your own and talk about books you like and what you like.

 

Take them to the library and let them pick out books.

 

Get books on their obsessions (order them from the library or buy a couple).  Have them available.

 

Get them funny things like choose your own adventure books, or Mad Libs, or cheesy joke books.  Things little kids like.  

 

Let them read far below their challenge level in their free time.

 

Do the Barnes and Noble book thing, or find a summer reading contest at your local library.  

 

Offer them rewards for reading books.  I.E., if they read 50 pages (or whatever is appropriate for the child) and write a short summary of it, or perform a commercial for the book for you, you give them X (could be $$, could be screen time, could be something else that motivates them).  I don't do this, but, depending on your resources or their wants/needs, it could work for your family).

 

FWIW on the screen time, 30 min 2x a day sort of sets you up for them longing for it.  If you want to allow 1 hr/day, I'd personally leave it at that and not force it to be in two chunks.  The in-between time is probably full of them just thinking about getting on to finish or do whatever they have in mind.  In our home, screens aren't a big focus, partially because it has become a habit to not turn them on before lunch.  Also, I found that for who we are, when I did a certain amount of time a day for them, then they longed for it every day and had a harder time not obsessing over it.  Now, it is available if they ask (TV, after lunch - usually one show, but sometimes more) and if their room is clean (this either creates clean rooms a lot or no screen time  -I win either way! :)).  Oh, and breaking the "every day" habit of TV took us being busy with fun things out of the house for a week or two, but after that they weren't used to watching every day, so it isn't on that often when they are awake.

[Arcadia]

Ok, off to the library we go.

 

(but am I asking too much to ask them to also read SOMETHING else?)

Nope. It is okay to have assigned reading. Mine read all the graphic novels off the kids section and some off the teens section of the libraries. My DS9 will only read non-fiction if it is free choice so I assign some fiction books for him to read. My DS10 will read anything and everything but read mostly mysteries so I assign some in genres that he won't usually pick.

I just treat assigned reading as literature. Their leisure reading is anything they want to read. They get assigned reading from the German class teacher too so I'm not the only "bad guy".

[PeterPan]

I'm not sure whether I know what you mean or not. Do you mean that perhaps what seems to me to be intentional lying on his part is maybe not really quite that? If so, yeah---you may be right.

 

 

Not sure where to start, but it sounds like a good idea. This is not the first conversation about this kid that has drifted toward topics related to ADHD. When he was in school, none of his teachers ever brought it up...but now that I have him at home, I do wonder. But either way---yeah, reading up on this would probably be beneficial. Let me know if you have any recommended websites or books.

 

 

I'm fine with rewards. I think that intrinsic motivation must be awesome for those whose kids have it...but I've mostly given up on it with my kids. I think rewards can be especially helpful when they are on their way to discovering something that takes some practice and skill and WORK to discover---like reading. Once they reach a certain level of proficiency (at least in theory, I guess), they will enjoy it and it will be the reward. Or at least I can hope. It's just with this particular kid, I don't want to set him up in a situation where he's likely to lie to achieve his desired outcome.

Yes.  And you would want a psych eval, not just a ped diagnosis.  The psych eval will be more thorough and give you IQ, achievement, screen for extra things that need referrals, etc.  You need to know if there's low processing speed, a social delay, a reading disorder, or some other things feeding into this dynamic.  Someone else made the comment that he might feel penned in with these situations and that's why he's lying.  That was definitely how it seemed to me with what you're describing.  It would just be good to sort it out, especially since you've already had the question.  Evals can be a terrific turning point for people, getting you the right words, better resources, better techniques.  Sometimes you goals are really laudable but you need a few more tools in your toolbox or a way to know you're choosing the right tool for that particular child, kwim?

[Farrar]

I think you're getting great advice to ease off, to consider that reading is not so easy for them and that there may even be some issues at play. But I also noticed that you seemed at sea about what books to hook them with so I thought I'd address that.

 

I think you just keep strewing stuff and see if they bite on any of it. Get it from the library, buy a book or two for every occasion if you can (like, hey, it's a long trip, let's get a book!). Don't underestimate letting them pick their own books either. There are other comics or graphic novels out there, other Wimpy Kid style books, books that are Magic Treehouse level but feel a little older, and even slightly more literary books that you could potentially use as "assigned reading" - though I'd wait until there are fewer tears.

 

Some suggestions for other high interest reading...

 

Big Nate (there are the comics and the novels - the novels are like Wimpy Kid books)

Dragonbreath (short, easy, funny, illustrations and some comics elements)

Timmy Failure (Wimpy Kid Knockoff)

My Life as a Book (Wimpy Kid style - more positive messages though)

House of Robots (funny, easy, illustrations but feels older)

Amulet (graphic novel series)

Bone (graphic novel series)

Jedi Academy (Wimpy Kid style but Star Wars themed)

Frank Einstein (short, easy, silly, illustrations)

Knights of the Lunch Table (graphic novel series)

Zita the Space Girl (graphic novel series)

Squish (super easy graphic novel series)

Lunch Lady (super easy graphic novel series)

Frankie Pickle (hybrid graphic novel and easy chapter book)

Time Warp Trio (Magic Treehouse level but feels a little older)

Bunnicula (MTH level but feels older)

Encyclopedia Brown (MTH level)

Stink (MTH level)

Who Was/What Was books (MTH level but nonfiction - my older kids still read these as an intro sometimes - remember that some kids will enjoy nonfiction more)

 

And for slightly more literary books that once reading isn't such a chore would still be easy...

Tornado

Chalkbox Kid

Gooney Bird Greene

The Mouse and the Motorcycle

The Sword in the Tree

The Seven Treasure Hunts

The Magic Finger

Mr Popper's Penguins

The Enormous Egg

The One and Only Ivan

El Deafo (this one is a graphic novel, but a really good one with a great message)

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

You might consider shifting more to audio books for free reading time.  It might get them really interested in reading while they are still working on reading skills separately.  That way they can even be reading stories that are above their current reading level.  More advanced vocabulary/grammar/concepts/stories might get them interested without bogging them down in decoding and fluency issues for material above where they are currently reading.

 

DS loves his Kindle and his head set.  He can read or listen or do both through Immersion reading while he also does other things, like play with legos or whatever.   Because of the headset he doesn't bother anyone else if he is reading/listening while in the same room with someone else. He reads or listens to books a lot more if he can be moving, too.

[Sahamamama]

I guess my underlying question, though, is WHY they find reading to be so dreadful, and what can I do to fix it?

 

What is dreadful, reading or being made to do something?

 

Me: Please come fold your laundry.

All of my children: Groan. Moan.

Me: Come fold your laundry. It's all your laundry. You wore it, now fold it and put it away. Otherwise, take off your clothes now and give them to me, since I bought them. :nopity:

All of my children: Okay, Mommy. [Fold, fold, fold]

 

 

 

Me: Please come and set the table and help make lunch.

All of my children: Groan. Moan.

Me: Come and work if you want to eat. Otherwise, go take a nap without lunch. Those are your options. :toetap05:

All of my children: Okay, Mommy. [Work, work, work]

 

 

 

Me: Please come and do your math lessons.

All of my children: Groan. Moan.

Me: Come and work if you expect to learn anything. It's your life and you need math to live it and I am not paying your way forever. :svengo:

All of my children: Okay, Mommy. [Math, math, math]

 

 

:lol: I must sound like a dictator, but I really am a benevolent one. I'm misrepresenting my children, who really don't protest too much, I think. But 8 and 10 year olds? Drama.

 

Get what you want out of them. That's what you're there for, to lead them to knowledge, wisdom, and maturity.

 

 

[Sahamamama]

I'm assuming the eye pain thing has never come up before during regular school time.  If it has, get it checked. If this is the first time and you suspect it might be legitimate, get it checked.

 

I don't let it bother me when my kids act dramatic and overwhelmed by being told to do something.  I'm a firm believer that learning to do things you don't want to do is an essential life skill that applies to a huge percentage of adult life. They should start practicing it now.   I explain that they're over reacting and if they don't do it without complaining they'll lose screen time for the next two days.  If they continue to complain they'll lose play time with their friends.  If they continue to complain I'll add an extra chore for every complaint. If I run out of ideas for extra chores I'll call my mother for suggestions because making up extra chores for obnoxious kids on the fly was her super power.

 

I love this! Can I have your mother's number? (Just kidding). What a super power! :)