Time on Palin

[genie]

Kids have also been known to be the victims of this kind of bullying because were NOT Christian. I know kids even in my time growing up that were told they were "going to hell" and all kinds of other stuff.

 

My daughter has experienced this on several occasions.

[Elaine]

It's only Jerry Springerish because the media is turning into that, instead of focusing on the issues. 'Troopergate' is pretty much looking like it's nothing. If it was going to be a serious investigation with Palin doing things really wrong, do you think McCain would have picked her? And the other stuff - so only perfect families are allowed to run for office now? I bet nearly every single one of us has one or two mistakes at least within our immediate families. How would it look if the media grabbed a hold of those mistakes and reprinted them in every newspaper, broadcast them on TV, dragged our children through the mud with crazy rumors like a 17 yo having a Down's baby...............I know if they did that for my family, or for lots of people I know - we would look Jerry Springerish. Stuff like that is called life. Life is messy and everyone is messy. It's just a matter of whether or not you have an eager media waiting to destroy you.

 

The media could have easily focused on her son going to war, and what parenting things did they get right to raise a son as patriotic as that? What about her other kids that aren't 'in trouble'. How are they turning out so well? What's it like having a First Gentleman who is a stay-at-home dad? Why don't we hear about those good stories? If the media had focused on those stories, the public perception of Sarah Palin would be much different. It only seems Jerry Springerish because of how the media is able to blow it out of proportion.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

And the reason that Obama comes out smelling like a rose for not participating in the mud slinging is because he doesn't have to! The liberal media does it all for him.

[Renee in NC]

Kids have also been known to be the victims of this kind of bullying because were NOT Christian. I know kids even in my time growing up that were told they were "going to hell" and all kinds of other stuff.

 

I know - I was trying to point out that it goes around and around and around. I wouldn't say that my ds is being "bulleyed" about it, because he doesn't take offense. It's freedom of speech and religion all rolled into one. People can say whatever they want - if I don't like it, I can leave. When someone can't leave and it is pervasive, then you have a separate issue.

[kokotg]

but I have yet to hear a Main stream media journalist ask Obama or his spokesperson directly to respond to these allegations . If family is fair game then by all means past and current associates certainly are. I'd like to see them go after the other candidates with the same frenzy. It's disheartening.

 

REALLY?! you didn't see the ABC debate then, for one thing. Or the interview he gave on Fox News. Or this interview on MSNBC:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk3Rra3CgMA

 

Those are off the top of my head and 15 seconds spent googling. He was asked about all of those things over and over again.

[Elaine]

It's the vindictiveness of the line of questioning. And more to the point, the fact that this same persistent relentless line of questioning doesn't follow the other candidates:

Bill Ayers

Rev. Wright

Biden's admitted plagiarism that caused him to withdraw from the previous election

Biden's son's hedge fund

Biden's daughter's 2002 arrest...should I continue?

 

See, questioning proven facts is one thing (ie. how could you sit in a church for 20 years with such a hatefilled pastor who baptized your two daughters) vs. you're daughter is pregnant, why in the world weren't you following her around 24/7 to make certain that her boyfriend wears a c**ndom?

 

It's cutting to conservatives to watch this media frenzy- it's personal destruction. And when there are legitimate questions to ask..well, they get buried by all this hate filled rumor mongering that I'm sad to say has been perpetrated by many posts on this board.

 

 

As for her request of millions of dollars to fund her town (you know that insignificant town of only 9000 rednecks), she was acting as a mayor and doing what mayors swear to do - look out for the interests of her town. As governor she wore a gov's hat and as VP she'll then function according to those responsibities.

 

Bravo, Amy! Bravo!:001_smile:

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

My daughter has experienced this on several occasions.

 

That is a shame. All I can say is, "Let's rock and roll!" :grouphug:

[SFP]

I find the book banning and threatening to fire the librarian for not banning books more disturbing than anything else that's come out about Palin thus far.

 

 

I agree.

[Renee in NC]

My daughter has experienced this on several occasions.

 

It's terrible, isn't it? Our family has friends all across the spectrum. I am a former fundamentalist Christian converted to Catholicism as is my 15yo. I would be FURIOUS if one of my dc (of an age to understand) were to treat someone this way. I wouldn't presume to teach anyone else's children my beliefs unless it was requested.

 

I don't think that these things are on the same plane as praying out loud, though.

[LizzyBee]

It's my understanding that Ketchikan is the 4th largest town / city in Alaska. It is part of the inland passage, south of Juneau. This area has a huge amount of tourism. Is it really a bridge to "no where" to connect the airport to the mainland? People now have to use a ferry. It's so interesting to see how life is viewed from different contexts.

 

That's where the bridge to nowhere was going? You're right, it's a huge tourist town. I've even been there and ridden the ferry from the airport to the mainland (and back again).

[genie]

I don't think that these things are on the same plane as praying out loud, though.

 

No, the thread had taken a side-road when I made that comment. :)

[LizzyBee]

I find the book banning and threatening to fire the librarian for not banning books more disturbing than anything else that's come out about Palin thus far.

 

I don't know the details of what kinds of books she wanted removed, but I will be the first to say I wish that public libraries would exercise a little more discretion in what they carry. They have limited space and make decisions every day about what they will and will not purchase. Why not purchase more classics and quality literature? I rarely even take my kids to the library anymore because I don't want to argue with them about what they can and can't borrow. We request books online and I pick them up. And for the record, my standards really aren't very high compared to a lot of moms on these boards (based on what I've gathered in 6 1/2 years of reading the boards).

[Elaine]

I find the book banning and threatening to fire the librarian for not banning books more disturbing than anything else that's come out about Palin thus far.

 

But you don't even know if its true, the librarian was not available for comment. If someone told me to ban books you can bet I'd make myself available for comment.

 

The whole thing smacks of smear campaing. I'm not seeing a lot of "change."

[Jenn in Mo]

While I'm appalled by the Jerry Springerish family stuff Palin brings to the table (she supported her MIL's opponent to succeed her as mayor :w00t:, Troopergate, the daughter humiliated in tabloids, her husband's DUI...)

 

Was it MIL or stepmom? Either way, I'm not seeing why she should support a potential candidate based on the fact that they were related. If anything, this makes me admire her more for not backing someone just because they were family.

[CAMom]

Is it me or did that article have no verifiable evidence to what it was reporting?:confused: I admit that it's been a while since I read Time but I didn't realize it was into reporting gossip.:glare:

[LisaKinVA]

Is it me or did that article have no verifiable evidence to what it was reporting?:confused: I admit that it's been a while since I read Time but I didn't realize it was into reporting gossip.:glare:

 

Well gossip seems to be what they (most of the media outlets) have to report. Perhaps we'll see more retractions like this one in the coming days and weeks. Here's a retraction from the NYT for one of it's front page stories yesterday...

 

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/09/nyt_issues_retraction.html

 

I've already received two of the same forwarded anonymous e-mails from people who supposedly know Palin...

 

Is there truth to any of it? I don't know -- but apparently, fact checking is getting a bit lax. But, print today and get sales -- retract tomorrow buried somewhere and no one notices.

 

My head hurts.

[rowan-tree]

Book banning? That actually made me really curious as to where WTM'ers fall on the topic.

 

 

I honestly don't know precisely where I fall on book banning. If you don't mind, I'll see if I can use this thread to process through some of my thoughts to a conclusion.

 

I tend to think in terms of sphere sovereignty, i.e., there are three spheres of which we take part - family, church, state. Each sphere has its own responsibilities and areas over which it is sovereign. Incidentally, this is where the idea of separation of church and state comes from in the first place.

 

However, there are areas of overlap, too. And that's where it gets tricky. There are pitfalls all around. First, you have the various views of supremacy, i.e., there are some things over which the family has supreme auspicees, others the state, others the church (although this last one has radically fallen out of fashion in the last few generations). I personally think that to pit one sphere against another or even to think that one has supremacy over another (in "every" area) is one of our nation's (world's?) biggest thinking problems.

 

Next, of course, is the question of what categories, etc, are the duties of which spheres, and which overlap. For reasons I can't get into here, I happen to think that education is primarily the responsibility of the family. That's not to say, of course, that the family can't use means outside the home for instruction, just that it's the family's "responsibility" to be sure it's done according to their wishes. One might argue that education is a function of justice, and that, therefore, it's the state's responsibility to be sure that it's provided for everyone within their borders. However, I always go back to Scripture for my starting point, and I haven't yet been persuaded of that argument. So, my position on book banning at this point (i.e., I'm willing to be directed, here), ends up being an absurdity. And here it is (I guess) -

 

A family, having sovereignty (and therefore responsibility) for the education of the children, has the "right" (I've come to hate that word) to "ban" books - for the safety and protection of the children. They have the right/responsibility (the two go hand-in-hand) to shepherd their child and shape their minds.

 

Having said this, I then think about the state as a collection of families, comprised of the families within its realm. How much voice does that collective group exercise for itself in the area of education? And, since I believe that a magistrate is (ultimately) appointed by God - even through the electoral process - what sorts of duties, then, does that magistrate (rep of the state) have regarding the education of the families within his/her borders?

 

'At this point' (again), I don't think the magistrate has a responsibility, corporately speaking, for the education of the children within families. [The children don't belong to the state. They belong to the families. If they belonged to the state, God would have arranged for them to arrive via the US postal system rather than a mother's womb]. So, perhaps they ought not use the resources of their coffers to provide libraries in the first place(!?) After all, libraries as a service of government is a fairly new phenomenon, no? On the other hand, communities, comprised of mutually inter-dependent families, can (ought?... neh) garner their resources to provide for the stocking of a community library. If they did, though, I'd say they had the "right" to ban or include whatever books they chose.

 

And "if" the state has the right/responsibility to provide a public library, I'd suppose it would also have the right to ban whatever books it thought would be to the detriment of its citizens and, therefore, subversive to its own welfare. Ultimately, then, I don't guess I think banning books is so very bad. But to do so would require amazing quantities of wisdom - wisdom that, perhaps, no single person has. But perhaps communities would be able to access a corporate wisdom which, right or wrong, would be able to have its own selection standards.

 

Hmmm. I'm open to suggestions for my thought processes, here. Any Biblical input would be nice. 'Cause I think the church has an obvious role in instruction of its families as well. I say "role," not meaning to imply that it's primarily the church's duty. I guess that's where we need wisdom - which duty belongs "primarily" to which sphere and, then, how do the other two spheres contribute to supplement the originating sphere's responsibilities?

[abreakfromlife]

A Shameful Week for the Press

Here's a good post put up by National Review about the media.

[Katrina]

Kids have also been known to be the victims of this kind of bullying because were NOT Christian. I know kids even in my time growing up that were told they were "going to hell" and all kinds of other stuff.

 

If I had a nickel for all the times I've been told I was going to hell from other Crhistains, I'd be richer than Bill Gates. (Well, maybe not richer, but I'd at least be able to take a nice cruise with my family this winter.)

[Jenn in Mo]

Would that no be proselytizing?

 

I hardly think praying out loud constitutes as trying to convert someone to Christianity.

 

How about if the Muslim or Jewish students did the same? Worse yet, a pagan or other alternative faith kid? I would gather you would not want your child(ren) exposed to their other faith prayers.

 

I'm not sure where you gathered that she would not want her children exposed to other faith prayers. Most of us on this board are providing a classical education for our children, which includes exposure to many different cultures and beliefs. I'm not teaching my children to run over and repeat them or join in the prayer, but I am teaching them to respect the fact that other people believe differently than they do.

 

It's never enough to have quiet prayer, one always wants everyone else to here theirs as well.

 

Do you mean that you always want everyone else to hear your prayers? Who are we talking about here? I personally don't know anyone who prays to be heard by anyone (other than God.)

[kokotg]

...and here's a good column by Joe Klein (formerly a big McCain supporter):

 

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/09/angry_amateurs.html

[astrid]

The media could have easily focused on her son going to war, and what parenting things did they get right to raise a son as patriotic as that?

 

I'm sure they did many of the same things Senator Biden and his wife did to raise a son as patriotic as Beau, who is also going off to Iraq.

 

Astrid

[Michelle in MO]

I think it's too soon to quote this as gospel; the LA Times (which doesn't seem particularly conservative) printed this article about all the hubbub surrounding McCain's choice of Palin. Especially interesting was this paragraph:

 

On Tuesday, Time magazine's online edition launched another Scud, quoting a former mayor of Palin's small Alaska town as saying she had once inquired about banning certain books from the public library. Typical of today's rush to post all political news first online, the story did not offer much detail. It didn't even suggest which books might have been headed for the dumpster. Hmmmm.

 

Here's a retraction from the NYT for one of it's front page stories yesterday...

 

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/09/nyt_issues_retraction.html

 

I'm certainly not for book banning, but I think at this point it's way too early to pass judgement on Governor Palin until this story is more substantiated. NYT has had to issue retractions before, like the one that LisaK in VA posted. I don't think we have enough of the backstory yet.

[astrid]

It has always been the tradition that the VP candidate isn't expected to do one on one interviews or press conferences until after the convention. This was true for Biden and it's true for Palin. That's why you haven't heard from her directly. She will be on the interview circuit after the convention.

 

She did answer one question that I now of from the press.....when asked by a reporter early on about her being on the list of McCain's potential VP candidates, she replied with, "What exactly does the Vice President DO all day, anyway?" I hope someone's clued her in since then.

 

Astrid

[Quiver0f10]

What would be the purpose of that? I cannot think of a positive one at all; it would feel to me like an attempt to make those around her listen to her devotions... and can you imagine the chaos if even half the kids were standing up and praying aloud? Each with different prayers, different faiths? How could anyone concentrate on what s/he was saying? How could the non-praying children concentrate on their lunches, their conversations, or cramming for the test after lunch? It seems to me that praying aloud in that setting is just ill mannered in the extreme and serves no religious function - unless proselytizing or "witnessing" is the intent... and that would be really offensive (and I assume that wasn't your thought *at all*)

 

...but I might be missing something here (it certainly wouldn't be the first time!) What positive purpose would you see in a child praying aloud in the lunch room?

 

Oh. I am dense! Perhaps you weren't advocating for it at all. Perhaps you were throwing that question out to explore where the boundaries are on a child's right to private prayer in a public school setting. ... if so, it is a great question for that purpose.

 

Hmmm... it seems to me that the boundary should be where one student's private devotions are intruding themselves on other students. What do you think?

 

 

I agree 100% . I am saying if a child where to pray in school, whether to God or Allah or Budda or whomever, it would be stopped asap. Saying a child can bow his/her head quietly and pray doesn't mean they can pray in school. Kwim?

[6packofun]

Well gossip seems to be what they (most of the media outlets) have to report. Perhaps we'll see more retractions like this one in the coming days and weeks. Here's a retraction from the NYT for one of it's front page stories yesterday...

 

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/09/nyt_issues_retraction.html

 

I've already received two of the same forwarded anonymous e-mails from people who supposedly know Palin...

 

Is there truth to any of it? I don't know -- but apparently, fact checking is getting a bit lax. But, print today and get sales -- retract tomorrow buried somewhere and no one notices.

 

My head hurts.

 

 

It's like a lawyer saying something inflammatory that they know will be stricken from the record so that it's "out there" and heard by the jury and then quickly saying "withdrawn" afterwards. The media just wants to say whatever they can to hurt the GOP *now* and worry about the retractions later. Those oh so prominently displayed retractions. LOL

[rowan-tree]

I didn't read the article, but your posting made me go back to thoughts I've had about the dither on Sarah's daughter's pregnancy. Prayer has been removed from the ps. The Ten Commandments have been removed from ps. Censorship is all but non existant in a secular way, but turned not in a religious way in all forms of media. Teen pregnancy is rampant, drug and alcohol abuse is rampant, gang violence is rampant and keep going with other things. Is it any wonder someone like Sarah is going to any extreme to fight the influence of these things in her state. I would never go to her extreme, but that IS one big reason why I homeschool, so yeah, I am doing something about myself.

 

It's interesting to me that you connect the censorship of religious forms by government school institutions with moral ailments within our society. I personally agree with this connection on one level (not ubiquitously). But it's also interesting to me that the banning of Christian input into government education was precisely what R.L. Dabney predicted when he wrote his almost "prophetic" essay arguing against the government-institutionalizing of education. Dabney thought that Christians would be opposed to education falling under the auspices of the state because of the inevitable secularization process: "[T]he Jeffersonian doctrine of the absolute severance and independence of church and state, of the entire secularity of the State, and the absolutely equal rights, before the law, of religious truth and error, of paganism, atheism, and Christianity, has also established itself in all the States; and still the politicians, for electioneering ends, propagate this State education everywhere. By this curious circuit "Christian America" has gotten herself upon this throughly pagan ground; forcing the education of responsible, moral, and immortal beings, of which religion must ever be the essence, into the hands of a gigantic human agency, which resolves that it cannot and will not be religious at all. Surely, some great religious body will arise in America to lift its Christian protest against this monstrous result!" [Dabney, Discussions, Vol. IV: Secular, 548]. I quoted this from the Chalcedon site, if you're interested. Here's Dabney's treatise in booklet form.

[Erica in PA]

I'm sure they did many of the same things Senator Biden and his wife did to raise a son as patriotic as Beau, who is also going off to Iraq.

 

Astrid

 

True, but the point is, if the media wants to focus on personal lives, why only *Sarah Palin's* personal life, and why only the negative aspects? The point here was that she has positive things going for her family as well, but those are not mentioned, only the negatives. I am sure that each of the four candidates have blemishes in their personal lives, but only Sarah Palin's made the cover of US Weekly. :glare: (Wonder why John Edward's confirmed bad behavior didn't make the cover-- while mere rumors and innuendo made Palin the cover girl?)

 

Erica

[Quiver0f10]

So they said their prayers out loud in front of all the other kids? She was asking about saying them out loud. I have no issue with anyone wanting to have a quiet moment to say a prayer. It's when they want to make others listen to it or make all kids do it, that I have a problem with.

 

 

I said prayers, but I never said praying to WHO. I meant prayers, I don't care what your religion is-if you tried to pray in school you would be quieted.

 

For the record I don't want prayer in school for the reason someone stated; prayers to who? I wouldn't want my kids subjected to forced prayers to Buddah or Allah or listening to Jewish prayers( sorry I don't know what to call that, no offense meant) nor would I want to force my religion on anyone else. Therefore I do agree with no prayer in school. However, I have no trouble with a moment of silence each morning to allow those who wished to pray the time to do so.

[SFP]

Reported by Laura McGann:

 

ANCHORAGE — Tuesday afternoon, the Mat-Su Frontiersman, in Wasilla, hosted me in their offices so I could dig through their print archives to get a sense of Gov. Sarah Palin’s tenure as mayor there.

I photocopied one story, from December 1996, about Palin’s run-in with Wasilla’s director of libraries, Mary Ellen Emmons. The article is in line with what several commenters mentioned here a few days ago. Emmons says that in October and December, 1996, the year Palin took office, the new mayor asked her if she would tolerate censorship of library books.

According to the article, Palin’s response to the accusation was to say that the discussions were “in the context of a professional question being asked in regards to library policy.â€

The next month Palin left a letter on Emmons desk asking her to resign. It said, â€I do not feel I have your full support in my efforts to govern the city of Wasilla. Therefore I intend to terminate your employment ….â€

The Anchorage Daily News reported at the time, as did the Frontiersman, that the conflict was over whether to restructure the local library and museum operations. After some discussions, Palin seems to have decided Emmons was willing to toe the line. She kept her job as library director.

[Ahwahnee]

She did answer one question that I now of from the press.....when asked by a reporter early on about her being on the list of McCain's potential VP candidates, she replied with, "What exactly does the Vice President DO all day, anyway?" I hope someone's clued her in since then.

 

She is a bit facetious, but astute on this question. A VP may only shake hands, make speeches, preside over the Senate, and wait for the President to become unable to perform his duties. Day to day that isn't much. However, the President may choose to use the VP for much more.

[MomofSeven]

She did answer one question that I now of from the press.....when asked by a reporter early on about her being on the list of McCain's potential VP candidates, she replied with, "What exactly does the Vice President DO all day, anyway?" I hope someone's clued her in since then.

 

Astrid

 

Please?

[Cricket]

I don't know the details of what kinds of books she wanted removed, but I will be the first to say I wish that public libraries would exercise a little more discretion in what they carry. They have limited space and make decisions every day about what they will and will not purchase. Why not purchase more classics and quality literature? I rarely even take my kids to the library anymore because I don't want to argue with them about what they can and can't borrow. We request books online and I pick them up. And for the record, my standards really aren't very high compared to a lot of moms on these boards (based on what I've gathered in 6 1/2 years of reading the boards).

 

I don't know what this whole story is about either but I completely agree with you. Librarians don't buy every book out there so obviously there is some kind of criteria they use to judge whether or not to buy a book. Why can't one of those criteria be whether or not a certain book is a good fit for that city or county? At our high school library some other students and I filled out paperwork to request that a certain book be removed from the library. The librarian was in complete agreement with us and had already decided to withdraw the book but wanted us to do all the paperwork anyway. There is a legitimate process to go through in requesting a book be removed from a library. It's not like anyone is making the book illegal in the entire state for goodness sake. There is nothing wrong with exercising good judgment in choosing which books to put in a library.

 

But I'm still curious as to what this story is all about. Most of that article seems to be trying to get people all worried that Palin wants to institute a theocracy. And another big gripe is that she is a savvy politician. :blink: Uh, aren't they all? Quite frankly, that's why I have a hard time getting excited about any of them! They are all politicians!

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Link to vid of Palin on CNBC

 

 

[LizzyBee]

She did answer one question that I now of from the press.....when asked by a reporter early on about her being on the list of McCain's potential VP candidates, she replied with, "What exactly does the Vice President DO all day, anyway?" I hope someone's clued her in since then.

 

Astrid

 

If you and I are thinking of the same interview, she also said that she's used to being productive and she wouldn't want to be VP if it wouldn't allow her to work hard and be productive; in that vein, someone would have to explain to her what the VP does all day. Since she accepted McCain's offer, I assumed that someone 'splained it and she decided the position would offer her the opportunity to work hard and be productive.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'm really not politically savvy and have lots to learn, but reading this article, I don't walk away confident that she's an awful person. Stein, who lost to Palin in a race for Mayor once upon a time, says she asked a librarian about banning books. The librarian was unreachable? Stein is a reliable source for a quote about Palin's stance in this area?

 

I'd have to see a better source before buying that.

 

I could even see a situation where a mayor was approprately in responding to voter/citizen questions about book availability in a Publicly Funded Government Run Library.

 

That is very different from censorship, restricting individual ownership of said book, preventing sale of the book etc. The ALA stance on book banning is generally that any book should by available to any patron at any time. I don't find this to be my stance.

[Saille]

but I have yet to hear a Main stream media journalist ask Obama or his spokesperson directly to respond to these allegations . If family is fair game then by all means past and current associates certainly are. I'd like to see them go after the other candidates with the same frenzy. It's disheartening.

 

Here's an article Obama wrote on the subject of Reverend Wright.

 

Here's a website, Fight the Smears, which has been specifically created by the Obama campaign to directly respond to any and all allegations against him.

 

My candidates are accountable to me. Any question pertaining to their credentials, conflicts of interest, or conflicting statements is one I am entitled to ask. From what I can see, Obama agrees. I have a problem with any candidate who doesn't, and I'm not really sure what purpose blind trust among the electorate is supposed to serve. Who does that benefit? It seems...comfy but dangerous? Sort of like cheerfully driving a Chevy Corvair in stop-and-go traffic.

[nakitty]

It's my understanding that Ketchikan is the 4th largest town / city in Alaska. It is part of the inland passage, south of Juneau. This area has a huge amount of tourism. Is it really a bridge to "no where" to connect the airport to the mainland? People now have to use a ferry. It's so interesting to see how life is viewed from different contexts.

 

I think she comes with a healthy dose of political maneuvering just like the rest of the politicians. I wouldn't sell her as above the rest. My Alaskan friends don't consider her as someone with much experience yet.

 

Just my two cents worth. Alaska is so unknown to the rest of the lower 48 that it makes it all hard to figure out. I wonder how much fishing her family will be able to do in Washington D.C.?:)

 

Actually....I think it is important to know how ridiculous the request was.... I live near the San Juan Islands....the ferry system they want to replace is FAR better than ours... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravina_Island_Bridge

[astrid]

My candidates are accountable to me. Any question pertaining to their credentials, conflicts of interest, or conflicting statements is one I am entitled to ask. From what I can see, Obama agrees. I have a problem with any candidate who doesn't, and I'm not really sure what purpose blind trust among the electorate is supposed to serve. Who does that benefit? It seems...comfy but dangerous? Sort of like cheerfully driving a Chevy Corvair in stop-and-go traffic.

 

Oooh....Ralph would love this comment! Next time he walks by I might mention it to him! :D

 

 

astrid

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Lol- my dd is a big Gidget fan too (both Sally and Sandra Dee)

 

Here are some I have seen around the net:

Peggy Hill

 

Supernanny

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

And the reason that Obama comes out smelling like a rose for not participating in the mud slinging is because he doesn't have to! The liberal media does it all for him.

 

So do you think Sen. Obama should sling some manure, so that he doesn't smell like a rose? How can he win? If he slings mud, he's a scumbag. If he doesn't, he smells like a rose but only because "his" default lackeys do it for him?

 

Remember when Sen. McCain battled the phone push polls in 2000 (S&L crisis and Keating 5 "questions" posed to voters) and the "fathered an illegitimate black baby" rumors in SC that tanked his chances in the state? Tucker Eskew, who was on the Bush team back then, (by his admission) authored that nonsense so that Bush was left smelling like a rose. He even, after the SC debates, reached over and told Sen. McCain that he TRULY had nothing to do with that kind of dirty trick. (Sen. McCain snarled "Don't touch me" and a couple of unprintable things. It was a Loooong time before thing cooled down from that one.)

 

Oddly enough, Sen. McCain just hired Tucker Eskew for his team 2008. Now why would he do that? What on earth does he think Tucker Eskew does for a person's campaign? He has first-hand knowledge, sure knowledge, life-altering knowledge, of what Tucker Eskew brings to a campaign.

 

To my knowledge (and of course, I could be wrong but I have seen no evidence of such a thing) Sen. Obama has not hired anyone to make phone calls or smear the other side. If snarky bloggers are snarky or if tabloid-y reporters ask tabloid-type questions, it's not necessarily because Senator Obama sicced them on or paid them. His hands aren't necessarily clean because someone else is throwing his manure for him. His hands may be clean because he stays away from pigsties.

[PamJH]

I am a long-time member of the much-maligned media. It's difficult for me (but I've developed a thick skin over the years) to listen to people bash the media as if the majority of us are nothing more than muck-raking scoundrels.

 

I work at a mid-sized paper that focuses on local news. Any national stuff we run comes from the Associated Press. We don't add to the stories unless we have a local angle.

 

We have run stories on Palin, Obama, Biden and McCain, not all of them flattering. It depends on the news of the day. And we are darned if we do, and darned if we don't. If we hadn't run the news on Palin's daughter, we would've received many irate calls. If we hadn't run the news on Obama's former pastor, again we would have fielded many irate calls.

 

The media cannot be blamed for all the negative coverage. I have found over the years that for newspapers to survive, we must give the readers what they want, not what we think they need. So we readers are to blame for a lot of this. If there weren't such a market for unflattering news, media outlets wouldn't print so much of it. These boards prove that many, many people are willing to discuss the candidates and their foibles.

 

Yes, we can be judicious in what we print. But if Sarah Palin is involved in an investigation into the firing of an employee or if Barack Obama listens for years to a pastor with an acid tongue, I believe the public has a right to know it. These people want the most important jobs this nation has. They want us to gift them with our votes. Therefore, they must withstand the scrutiny. If they can't, then perhaps they shouldn't run.

 

As you can see, I'm still a larvae. I use this board as a search tool; most of my questions have been discussed at some point so I find little use in starting new threads about old subjects. I look at these boards quite often and am gratified to see that most every side of political issues are discussed.

 

I'm chiming in late here, but at least I feel better for having defended my profession.

[PariSarah]

It just doesn't work that way.

 

Jed says to Leo, "What about this new v-p candidate?" Leo says, "Don't worry about that."

 

Then Leo asks C.J. and Toby, later, "Where are we on the new v-p candidate?" Toby says, "I think we should hit them hard on the inconsistencies. Find any program, anything, $10 worth of chewing gum to off-shore whalers, and that takes care of this reformer image crap. And family values? Her daughter's pregnant while she's running around the governor's office, with a baby in a sling!" C.J. chimes in, "Toby, the president doesn't go near that one with a ten foot pole. He's not even in the same room with somebody who addressed it three days ago." Leo says, "Toby, C.J.'s right. Let the blogosphere handle that--if she misspelled her daughter's name on a school permissions slip, they'll find out." Toby, only partially mollified, persists, "And the chewing gum?" Leo: "I think they'll get that too."

 

And then, later, Jed says to Leo, "Where are we on the new v-p candidate?" And Leo says, "It's being taken care of."

[PamJH]

Any other reference you can use?

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

It just doesn't work that way.

 

Jed says to Leo, "What about this new v-p candidate?" Leo says, "Don't worry about that."

 

Then Leo asks C.J. and Toby, later, "Where are we on the new v-p candidate?" Toby says, "I think we should hit them hard on the inconsistencies. Find any program, anything, $10 worth of chewing gum to off-shore whalers, and that takes care of this reformer image crap. And family values? Her daughter's pregnant while she's running around the governor's office, with a baby in a sling!" C.J. chimes in, "Toby, the president doesn't go near that one with a ten foot pole. He's not even in the same room with somebody who addressed it three days ago." Leo says, "Toby, C.J.'s right. Let the blogosphere handle that--if she misspelled her daughter's name on a school permissions slip, they'll find out." Toby, only partially mollified, persists, "And the chewing gum?" Leo: "I think they'll get that too."

 

And then, later, Jed says to Leo, "Where are we on the new v-p candidate?" And Leo says, "It's being taken care of."

 

Yeah, I know I'm idealistic and naive and unrealistic. :tongue_smilie: And I'm too old to think any party doesn't require liberal squirts of Rosie's Rose Personal and Room Deoderizer. But I prefer to think that there are some people in the world... well, maybe there are none. But I'm going to leave it there.

 

I'm listening to the tone of the RNC right now. Mr. Giuliani (who I happen to admire on one level, so it makes me sadder) is laughing, snickering, making fun. And I just want to weep for my country.

 

This is why I didn't watch the DNC pre-speaches. I assumed it would be much the same there.

 

Where's the vomit emoticon?

[Jenny in Atl]

Yeah, I know I'm idealistic and naive and unrealistic. :tongue_smilie: And I'm too old to think any party doesn't require liberal squirts of Rosie's Rose Personal and Room Deoderizer. But I prefer to think that there are some people in the world... well, maybe there are none. But I'm going to leave it there.

 

I'm listening to the tone of the RNC right now. Mr. Giuliani (who I happen to admire on one level, so it makes me sadder) is laughing, snickering, making fun. And I just want to weep for my country.

 

This is why I didn't watch the DNC pre-speaches. I assumed it would be much the same there.

 

Where's the vomit emoticon?

 

[CAMom]

I'm listening to the tone of the RNC right now. Mr. Giuliani (who I happen to admire on one level, so it makes me sadder) is laughing, snickering, making fun. And I just want to weep for my country.

 

 

 

I agree! He's being obnoxious right now.:glare:

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I agree! He's being obnoxious right now.:glare:

 

He's preaching to the choir, too. (Besides being obnoxious.) He, of all people IMO, could rise above and inspire and move and attract the middle-grounders that the campaign needs. But he blew it. He flippin' blew it. I expected so. much. more. from that man.

[Elaine]

So do you think Sen. Obama should sling some manure, so that he doesn't smell like a rose? How can he win? If he slings mud, he's a scumbag. If he doesn't, he smells like a rose but only because "his" default lackeys do it for him?

 

 

His hands aren't necessarily clean because someone else is throwing his manure for him. His hands may be clean because he stays away from pigsties.

 

No. What I am saying is he does not need to resort to smear campaigns because the liberal media does it for him. Look here and here to see what I mean.

 

The liberal news media is having a field day, a disgusting field day, the likes of which I have never seen. Obama is thier guy and nothing anyone says here can convince me otherwise.

 

Do I believe he got where he is by keeping his hands clean and staying out of pigsties? Abso-freakin'-lutely not.

[PariSarah]

Any other reference you can use?

 

. . . to convey information or convince anybody of anything. :D

 

Just to demonstrate my ability to do impersonations, even in print. If you haven't seen what I'm impersonating, it's just kinda . . . silly.

 

I kill me, I really do. :lol: :lol:

[genie]

The liberal news media is having a field day, a disgusting field day, the likes of which I have never seen. Obama is thier guy and nothing anyone says here can convince me otherwise.

 

 

Well, I'm not here to convince you of anything, Laney. :)

 

However, I can't help but feel that the "field day" that's going on is because there is so much fodder out there. I'm not saying there is truth to all the rumors. It just seems that Palin is disproportionately surrounded by controversy for as short a time as she's been in politics. The media may be exploiting the stories, but the stories were there to be exploited. And that's what they get paid to do.