skimomma Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I have an 11 yo that does not sleep well. She never has, not even as an infant. Because she is homeschooled, it has not been as big of a problem as it could have been. She can sleep later on bad nights and we can just be more flexible in general. But as she is getting older, she is getting more involved in activities and online classes that require her to be up and functioning earlier in the morning. I have done so much research about good sleep habits and I do think we are doing everything as right as we can. One big factor is that we are northern enough that it gets dark here at 4pm in the winter and stays light until 11pm in the summer. Morning light also fluctuates seasonally. Natural melatonin is triggered by darkness at bedtime. Natural light upon waking is also an important factor. Aside from light-blocking blinds which can help with summer evenings, there is not much I can do about the fact that our natural light rarely lines up with our sleep times. We traveled overseas a few months ago. During past trips, we have all suffered from jet lag so I did some research before we left for this trip and decided that it was worth it to try melatonin. It worked great. We all slept very well and got into the local time quickly. We only took it for three nights then stopped. Because we walked miles and miles every day and were up late, dd did not have trouble sleeping. She was just simply exhausted and sleep came easy. Since then, she quickly fell back into her normal patterns of going to bed around 9pm but being awake in bed until close to midnight sometimes even later. It is very frustrating for her. She asked if we could try the melatonin again. So we did for 4 days last week. It worked perfectly. She took it a bit before bedtime and was asleep within 15 minuets of going to bed. Hoping that "reset" would stick, I stopped giving it to her. Immediately she was back to being awake at midnight. I have looked at all the info about melatonin and kids. I know they do not have much research and the general consensus is to just not give it to kids. It is a hormone and that is scary. Dd's doctor just told us there is nothing really for kids and gave us the same old list of suggestions we have been following her whole life (no screen time before bed, light blocking blinds, calm before bed, etc.....). Anyone have info about melatonin that might not be kicked up in a common internet search? Anyone have a kid that takes it regularly? If so, have you seen any reason to be concerned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I am not a doctor but our doctors (endocrinologist, psychiatrist and neurologist) all approved and suggested melatonin for my girls. One still takes it daily and the other one we were able to stop after about a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I have a non-sleeper who takes melatonin regularly at the suggestion of his pediatrician. Our family doc (an integrated med doc) also suggests this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pronghorn Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 You can do something about the light variations -- get sunglasses that block out the blue component of white light. I overcame my insomnia using these. You can read about it at lowbluelights.com. There may be other suppliers if these glasses too now. The glasses look a bit geeky but you can read etc. with them on. I used these to get off ambien and they worked great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 My son sleeps like me, terribly, and he always has. He uses a couple things to help him sleep. He attends public high school so adjusting his wake up time is no longer an option and he is just MISERABLE if he doesn't sleep enough. He also dances in a ballet company, so he really needs adequate sleep to function. So, he takes melatonin on school nights, if he thinks he needs it. We also have some magnesium citrate, which I really like but he takes irregularly. He took it last night because he had a big math test today and he gets anxious that he won't sleep, that he'll fail the text b/c he's tired so then he can't sleep due to anxiety etc etc. It's a death spiral. He takes half a teaspoon mixed with some water and used that to swallow the melatonin. It works really well. We also have blackout shades for his room and he is very good about no screens for an hour before bedtime...when homework makes that possible. It doesn't always but he does make a good effort and will tell you that it makes a difference. We are also all about routine, routine routine when it comes to sleep. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilly Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 One of my children takes it at the recommendation of the pediatrician. It has helped immensely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeghansMom Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 My daughter's pediatrician recommended it and uses it with his own daughter. I even use it to sleep but twice the dose of my daughter. I will say it helps you fall asleep but not necessarily stay asleep. It does work wonders for us though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyforlatin Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 For me, jujube extract works, and it seems to be working for two family members who both used to need melatonine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pronghorn Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Remember that a person's body is perfectly capable of making melatonin if you provide the correct light conditions in the two hours before bedtime. The most natural approach is to change the light exposure via sunglasses or special light bulbs. The effect of these can be very dramatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Remember that a person's body is perfectly capable of making melatonin if you provide the correct light conditions in the two hours before bedtime. The most natural approach is to change the light exposure via sunglasses or special light bulbs. The effect of these can be very dramatic. Got any helpful links to stuff on this? I'd like to know more about how to provide good light levels. In addition to my DD13 having some trouble getting to sleep I'm having trouble waking, and sometimes trouble sleeping. In the master bedroom we have light-blocking curtains because the street light shines right through our windows, keeping me awake. I used to be an early bird, when I was younger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne in ABQ Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 My son was 11 when we finally learned about melatonin. He started with the 3 mg tabs that dissolve under the tongue. They were like a miracle for him. He went from nightly sleepless, anxiety ridden (worrying about what tomorrow will be like if he doesn't sleep) nights to sleepy, restful nights. It may not work for everyone, but it was a godsend for us. He is 17 now, and still uses it on occasion (5 mg now), but doesn't need it for the most part. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Mine take 3 mg. They are like me; just a terrible time sleeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pronghorn Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Got any helpful links to stuff on this? I'd like to know more about how to provide good light levels. In addition to my DD13 having some trouble getting to sleep I'm having trouble waking, and sometimes trouble sleeping. In the master bedroom we have light-blocking curtains because the street light shines right through our windows, keeping me awake. I used to be an early bird, when I was younger. Lowbluelights.com was my best resource. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 My son was 11 when we finally learned about melatonin. He started with the 3 mg tabs that dissolve under the tongue. They were like a miracle for him. He went from nightly sleepless, anxiety ridden (worrying about what tomorrow will be like if he doesn't sleep) nights to sleepy, restful nights. It may not work for everyone, but it was a godsend for us. He is 17 now, and still uses it on occasion (5 mg now), but doesn't need it for the most part. How does he know (now) when he needs to use it? Does he wait until he has tried to fall asleep or does he choose nights when poor sleep would have dire consequences? Also, did he ever attend summer camp? If so, did he take it then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 For those that use glasses and/or lights, how do you handle times when you are not home? We find that dd has even more trouble when we are traveling, camping, or when she is at summer camp. This adds up to a significant portion of our nights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 Thanks for all of the responses. If I knew that it was 100% "harmless" I would not hesitate to use it. The difference in dd's quality of life on the days she has gotten enough sleep is huge. I feel so bad that she spends most of her days in an exhausted daze. It sounds like those that use it regularly have the blessing of their doctors? Dd's doctor did not seem to know much about it and was not really interested in discussing it at all. Short of finding a new doctor (we really like this doctor in all other ways), I don't think I will get any further in that discussion. Her doctor seems to have the opinion that trouble sleeping is normal for tween girls and is just a phase. She knows dd's sleep patterns have been a problem her entire life but I get the impression that the doctor thinks we are exaggerating. And I feel a little weird pushing for "sleeping drugs." Then I go online and the general opinion is that not enough is known about melatonin supplements in general and that it is especially worrisome for kids due to lack of studies and the potential for hormone issues during puberty. It requires a prescription in other countries. For those that are using it regularly, what is your opinion on these potential dangers? Do you think it is just general caution that is probably not a real concern or is it something you do worry about but even less so than your kid being perpetually exhausted? Do you worry about it becoming habit-forming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Our doctor highly recommended it. He was comfortable talking about it. I have a friend who is a social worker with very high risk kids who are often on a lot of medications. The meds often make it difficult to sleep at night, but sleeping medications on top of things like anti-psychotics are a tricky thing. But melatonin can be taken safely b/c our bodies make it, so you aren't introducing anything new to the system. It won't react with anything or cause more problems. I am not concerned b/c I haven't seen anything that makes me worry from a source that I find compelling. It isn't exactly a new, I had a friend who took it to deal with menopause induced insomnia and that was at least 20 years ago. People have been taking it for a long time and I haven't heard of anything that makes me worry. If anything, I am hearing more about how the lack of enough melatonin is bad for us. All those studies about the health risks of shift workers worry more than taking melatonin. And habit forming? Well, we make melatonin to sleep, need melatonin to sleep, so we are all 'addicted' to it already aren't we? My problem is that I have a 'sleep phase disorder' and I suspect my son does as well. If melatonin makes it possible for us to function in a world that isn't going to rearrange itself for us, how is that a problem? If I could make it go away I would. I don't not sleep at night because its fun or because I don't understand how sleep works or what is needed for a good night sleep. Melatonin helps me create better sleep habits. Is it habit forming? I don't know. I sleep crappily without it and I sleep slightly less crappily with it. My sleep isn't more crappy without it than before I started taking it. Is that habit forming? I sometimes don't take it and I get about 2-4 fewer hours of sleep. How is that good for me? But, I do understand feeling cautious because it's your kid. Why don't you try taking some yourself and see how it feels. It isn't a drugged feeling at all. You can shake it off and I have. You just feel like its time for bed. For someone like me, who doesn't feel that way often it was a revelation. The idea that you could turn off the light and close your eyes and fall asleep in 20 or 30 mins instead of 2 or 3 hours? That is a game changer. I still have to do all the other stuff for good sleep, and I also take magnesium citrate, but melatonin gives me a fighting chance. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieW in Texas Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 All of my kids have taken melatonin at various times to try to help with sleep with the blessing of their doctors. It didn't really do much for any of my kids. My middle dd even went all the way up to 15mg/night (slowly ramped up by doctor) before giving up on it. I can take 1-2 mg of melatonin to sleep at night. If I take more than 2mg, then I am groggy the next day. I have to have at least 3 hours of sleeping time left when I take it or I am groggy the next day. I end up taking melatonin almost every night. I have to get up at 5:45am and I am not a morning person. I also have a commute of 45-60 minutes each way and I am terrified of falling asleep while driving. My 16yo's sleep issues are bad enough that she has been on a prescription sleep aid for the past three years for severe insomnia. The first night on the sleep med was a wonderful wonderful thing. It was the first night she got more than 4 hours of sleep in over two years. She is still on the same dose that was originally prescribed, 3/4 to 1 full tablet of the lowest-dose tablet they make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 My kids doctor asked if we wanted our kids to do a sleep study though to rule out sleep apnea when we mentioned about sleep issues. I had brought medications (pills and inhalers) to camps with no issues as a kid. Kids with allegies have their epi-pens with them nowadays. I don't think it would be an issue for your daughter to bring melatonin pills to camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevergiveup Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 The body is supposed to produce melatonin naturally. However, not all bodies work like they should. Sleep is so very important for so many things. I would supplement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pronghorn Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 But, I do understand feeling cautious because it's your kid. Why don't you try taking some yourself and see how it feels. It isn't a drugged feeling at all. You can shake it off and I have. You just feel like its time for bed. For someone like me, who doesn't feel that way often it was a revelation. The idea that you could turn off the light and close your eyes and fall asleep in 20 or 30 mins instead of 2 or 3 hours? That is a game changer. I still have to do all the other stuff for good sleep, and I also take magnesium citrate, but melatonin gives me a fighting chance. If your body doesn't need more melatonin, then you may get nightmares and other side effects from taking it. Taking it yourself does not really show you how your child will feel taking it. The effect is very different on someone who is deficient in natural melatonin levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pronghorn Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 For those that use glasses and/or lights, how do you handle times when you are not home? We find that dd has even more trouble when we are traveling, camping, or when she is at summer camp. This adds up to a significant portion of our nights. I have used glasses and lights myself away from home but never at summer camp lol. (Wouldn't summer camp for moms be fun?) I bring the glasses along and wear them starting two hours before I plan to go to bed. I bring a special low-blue-light nightlight and plug it in in the bathroom (and try not to forget it when I leave). And I wear a sleep mask while sleeping to keep the light out. This all helps tremendously, perhaps even more than at home in a familiar environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 If your body doesn't need more melatonin, then you may get nightmares and other side effects from taking it. Taking it yourself does not really show you how your child will feel taking it. The effect is very different on someone who is deficient in natural melatonin levels. I don't know... dh often takes melatonin and he tends to the 'fall asleep before his head hits the pillow' type. He takes it when he travels for work and sleeps in hotels etc. He sometimes has trouble sleeping in unfamiliar places. He takes it if he has to get up for an early meeting an he needs to fall asleep earlier than usual. I'd say he takes it maybe 3 nights out of 7? He has never had a problem with nightmares or anything like that. I guess it is possible, some people say that it gives them more intense dreams, but I suspect that might be due to getting more REM sleep if one was sleep deprived. I also know people who claim that eating pesto or cheese before bed can lead to intense dreams or nightmares. But I do think it is good to know how it feels. It isn't a weird drugged feeling, like an ambien or even a benadryl. The first time I took it, the dose was too small and had no effect whatsoever. I need at least 5mg to feel the effect, my friend had given me 1mg, lol. I have used glasses and lights myself away from home but never at summer camp lol. (Wouldn't summer camp for moms be fun?) I bring the glasses along and wear them starting two hours before I plan to go to bed. I bring a special low-blue-light nightlight and plug it in in the bathroom (and try not to forget it when I leave). And I wear a sleep mask while sleeping to keep the light out. This all helps tremendously, perhaps even more than at home in a familiar environment. I looooove my sleep mask. It stopped my early morning wake ups. I have this one: http://www.amazon.com/Revolutionary-Patented-SLEEP-MASTER-Sleep/dp/B0015NZ6FK/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1426697526&sr=8-6&keywords=sleep+mask Best 25$ I ever spent. I love it so much that I am going to get a second on and put it away in case I lose this one. My kids are both begging me to get them one, but at 25$ it's a little expensive. I might start them with one that is cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 My kids doctor asked if we wanted our kids to do a sleep study though to rule out sleep apnea when we mentioned about sleep issues. I had brought medications (pills and inhalers) to camps with no issues as a kid. Kids with allegies have their epi-pens with them nowadays. I don't think it would be an issue for your daughter to bring melatonin pills to camp. I'm not sure a sleep study is in order since the problem is not staying asleep. She is fine once actually asleep and never has middle-of-the-night problems. It is just the falling asleep. I know medications are normal at camps but I worry that a non-prescription medication would be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I'm not sure a sleep study is in order since the problem is not staying asleep. She is fine once actually asleep and never has middle-of-the-night problems. It is just the falling asleep. I know medications are normal at camps but I worry that a non-prescription medication would be a problem. Does she have to tell anyone? Can't she just bring it and take it before she goes to bed? Do you need to send her with a bottle of motrin and a note if she gets a headache? Maybe you do, I don't know. But, who would know if she has it in with her toothbrush and shampoo. Do they go through her stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 some kids simply do not produce enough melatonin. dudeling has taken it regularly since he was six. he was even taking 3mg- 6mg. this is under the supervision of a naturopath. (who wasn't thrilled with the dose - but realizes this is what it takes for it to work for him. she wanted him on no more than 1 1/2mg - but he had to have at least 3) It was the first supplement he actually asked for - everything else he FOUGHT me about taking. the 2nd night he asked for it again. If I forgot to give it to him - he asked. if he has trouble falling asleep - he asks. even now, he'll come to me and ask. it has made an enormous difference for him, both functionally and how he feels just because he's getting a decent nights sleep. as I child I had a horrible time going to sleep. my mother would demand I was in my room with the lights off anyway. I was w.i.d.e. awake. and bored. to. tears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 Does she have to tell anyone? Can't she just bring it and take it before she goes to bed? Do you need to send her with a bottle of motrin and a note if she gets a headache? Maybe you do, I don't know. But, who would know if she has it in with her toothbrush and shampoo. Do they go through her stuff? I have seriously contemplated this idea. But I believe she (we) would be in a lot of trouble is she were "caught." She is going to camp on a very large scholarship and the rules are very clear. Even in my own childhood camp experiences this was the case. No, they would not search her belongings. But I do remember having to check in tylenol for my own headache issues as a teen. I could take them when I needed them but had to go to the nurse's station. They made sure I did not take more than I should or too frequently. While I 100% trust that dd would take her melatonin in the correct dose and at the correct time, I also 100% understand why a camp would not want to be responsible for anyone not administering their own meds correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 as I child I had a horrible time going to sleep. my mother would demand I was in my room with the lights off anyway. I was w.i.d.e. awake. and bored. to. tears. There is no secret where this comes from. This was my life as a kid. It was horrible. I try to be sensitive about this with my own dd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I have seriously contemplated this idea. But I believe she (we) would be in a lot of trouble is she were "caught." She is going to camp on a very large scholarship and the rules are very clear. Even in my own childhood camp experiences this was the case. No, they would not search her belongings. But I do remember having to check in tylenol for my own headache issues as a teen. I could take them when I needed them but had to go to the nurse's station. They made sure I did not take more than I should or too frequently. While I 100% trust that dd would take her melatonin in the correct dose and at the correct time, I also 100% understand why a camp would not want to be responsible for anyone not administering their own meds correctly. Then send her with a bottle and say that she has your permission to take it before bedtime as needed. If she is taking it now, she will know about how much she needs and when she needs it. When I go out of town I just count out the pills I need for the duration of my trip. If they have any questions they can call you, but the less big deal you make about it prob the better. If you go out of your way to explain and contact people etc you are just going to draw attention to it. It's going to say melatonin right on the bottle. Any camp nurse is going to know what that is and why she takes it. You are allowed to give your own kid melatonin, no one needs to give you permission to do so. Someone might question your judgement about it, but it's not their place to override your judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 She is going to camp on a very large scholarship and the rules are very clear. Even in my own childhood camp experiences this was the case. Could you get her doctor to write her a prescription? I had a prescription for double strength/dose Sudafed as well as Benadryl so that anyone in charge knows I am not overdosing on OTC drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSmomof2 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) I have a non-sleeper who takes melatonin regularly at the suggestion of his pediatrician. Our family doc (an integrated med doc) also suggests this. Edited September 30, 2017 by Bethany Grace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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