Burn out vs. depression

[Moxie]

How do you tell the difference between being totally burnt out and depression that would benefit from medication??

[chiguirre]

Can you take a week off and see how you feel? Maybe take an early spring break.

[Guest]

Can you take a week off and see how you feel? Maybe take an early spring break.

No and I've felt this way for a couple years.

[Zoo Keeper]

SWB has a really good audio lecture on burnout available in the PHP store. http://peacehillpress.com/index.php?p=product&id=331

 

She was very transparent on burnout vs. depression in her own life. 

 

It's worth a listen or two, and I hope you can find something to help the situation you are facing.

[hornblower]

I think I'd look at it this way:

 

can you (generic you :) ) make a schedule or even a loose plan for the next day/week and follow it

can you get 30 min of fresh air &/or exercise/ day
can you go to sleep and wake up at reasonable times

can you do any activities such as watching a show, a movie, listening to music, reading a book, dancing, & really enjoy them - feel present in the moment

can you make a list of pros & cons of whatever specific life situation is draining you & identify any small steps to make things easier

 

& by "can" I mean physically able to plan & execute those steps?

if you can, then do them & see how you feel in a couple weeks. If things are lifting & improving, it was burn out & you're taking steps to refresh & recharge & plot a slightly new course.

if you can't (or thought you could but it turns you didn't which probably means you can't) then you need professional help, either from a counselor to help break these things down into more tiny manageable steps, or from meds to get you over the hump & rebalance your brain chemistry so that you can start doing the things above....

Everything I keep hearing is that exercise helps with mild depression as much as anti-depressants. But if the person is so out of sorts that they can't/don't exercise, then it's a vicious circle of futility.


Oh & you could try to tweak things biochemically by improving diet & looking into supplements such as 5-htp, & certain vitamins, esp vitamin D & B complex.

[Arcadia]

Depression can be situational or clinical. Both can benefit from medication but causes are different.

 

My dad had situational depression from work related stress. Once the stressor is reduced or gone, he is okay.

 

A few friends have clinical depression and what I can understand is the stressors are within. They are fighting "internal demons" and can have suicidal thoughts for the long term.

 

Burnt out is more like exceeding the limits of your body, like a rubber band that can't bouce back to its original shape. Like you keep giving and forgot to replenish your own energy store.

 

It can be hard to tell without seeing a psychiatrist. Burn out and depression can coexist.

[chiguirre]

Vitamin D might help you out. I started it because my labs were deficient without expecting any effect. It turned out that it eliminated a couple of minor but annoying health issues I had and that improved my mood a lot. I rarely get aches and pains anymore. That's priceless compared to the occasionally painful knees, elbows and ankles I had before.

 

If you happen to have random aches and pains, I'd give it a try.

[texasmama]

Do you tend toward depression?  Have you been clinically depressed in the past (diagnosed or not, treated or not)?  Do you sleep well and adequately?  Are your social/support needs met?

 

If you had a week off to sit and stare at a wall, watch silly TV, read books, and sleep, without any other responsibilities, would this fix your feeling?

 

If you woke up tomorrow and a miracle occurred and everything was perfect, what would your life look like?  (That is a question from my therapist brain so fair warning there.)  I think the answer to that question will give you some insight about what your current needs are.

 

You do not have to answer these questions on here if you don't want to, but ponder them. 

 

(((hugs)))

 

ETA:  If you have suicidal thoughts, however fleeting, this needs addressed, and I would suspect depression rather than burnout.

[hornblower]

No and I've felt this way for a couple years.

 

Ok, I think that's probably something a bit deeper than burnout honestly....  

 

You could try this:  The Science of Happiness - a free online MOOC (avail till May 2015). It's a self paced 8 week course. https://www.edx.org/course/science-happiness-uc-berkeleyx-gg101x#.VGZ4QVfF90Y & then reassess in 8 weeks.

 

 

[MomatHWTK]

My doc mentioned that one determining factor is that you can't shake it off.  For instance, if a situation brought me down for a week or so- OK.  But, if it stayed with me and I couldn't shake it off, not OK. 

[Guest]

...gently...

 

It  doesn't have to be one or the other.  Both can be in the mix.  

[texasmama]

...gently...

 

It  doesn't have to be one or the other.  Both can be in the mix.  

This is a very good point.

[texasmama]

Coming back to add that I have known when I needed medical intervention and/or therapy when I had suicidal thoughts and when I was so overwhelmed and my senses so dulled that I was barely able to meet the children's minimal needs.  For me, it was situational (my dh was unemployed while my mother was disabled and in the process of dying and one of my kids was being diagnosed with delays/issues).  My dh eventually got a job, my mother passed away and I grieved, and I adjusted to having a child with special needs.  Being depressed was not my norm.  I was also very anxious during that time and found myself unable to make the simplest decisions.  I would become paralyzed about what toddler car seat to buy, for instance.  That is not my norm, either.

 

Sending you some (((hugs))), Moxie.

[LLMom]

Burnout will usually go away with time (relatively quickly) and the normal suggestions of changing things up, taking a break, etc.  Depression doesn't usually just go away.  I have a lot on my blog about depression and burnout.  Here are a few to get you started.

 

burnout or something more

 

depression and the homeschool mom

[texasmama]

Burnout will usually go away with time (relatively quickly) and the normal suggestions of changing things up, taking a break, etc.  Depression doesn't usually just go away.  I have a lot on my blog about depression and burnout.  Here are a few to get you started.

 

burnout or something more

 

depression and the homeschool mom

Thanks for sharing your blog posts.  Really good stuff.

[J-rap]

Another thing to ask yourself...  Do you have moments/times when you are very happy, like you don't have a care in the world, even fleetingly?  What are you doing in those moments?  Is it when you're having coffee out with a friend, time to yourself, etc?  Can those moments be duplicated and expanded upon?

 

 

[jar7709]

Burnout that extends longer than it should can also lead to anxiety/depression. Ask me how I know. :(

 

Wishing you well, do what you need to take care of yourself.

[PeterPan]

Have you done the basics like a thyroid panel (including Free T3 and Free T4) and D?  Reality is, you've had a bunch of kids and have a hard load.  That's wearying.  On top of all that, it's February, when EVERYONE gets crazy with low vitamin D, sickness, and low energy.  

 

I think somehow homeschooling has turned into this sick religion of anyone can do anything (have tons of kids, school through SN, figure out how to do therapies, deal with food allergies, make your own bread, milk your own goats, DE and create your own AP syllabii, etc.etc.).  Somehow the bar has gotten raised to the point of insanity.  I DON'T think one woman can do everything and if it's not working for you CHANGE whatever elements of it you need to change.  If that means demanding a house keeper  because that's cheaper than school tuition, fine.  If that means putting everybody in school for a year, fine.  I just think this idea that a woman can do EVERYTHING the way they (the nebulous effect of the internet and our imaginations) seem to imply is just insane.  Some situations are just hard.  It's ok to want help and ask for help.

 

Adding: For me depression was connected to physical problems (thyroid, D, sickness).

[Alicia64]

Google "dysthymia." It's low grade depression that hangs on and won't go away. The person w/ it can get out of bed, can open the curtains and go to work etc., but nothing is fun. Life is a drag etc.

 

That's dysthymia and it's serious.

 

I'd explain it to a dr. and possibly get some meds. Talking therapy can be very helpful, but if the dysthymia is chemical -- in your body -- you can talk 365 days a year and  you won't feel better.

 

Alley

[Halcyon]

I have dealt with depression on and off all my life, and am dealing with it again now, but it is also combined with burnout. I work as well as homeschool and I have zero joy in my work right now (i run my own business) and am exhausted. HS-ing is being neglected. My mood is so low. I am trying to make positive changes--reducing my hours at work, going to begin yoga again once i reduce my hours, spending more time with the kids on homeschool (this actually lifts my mood--HSing has been neglected, or rather, my involvement with their hs-ing has been neglected, and I need to refocus). 

 

I am hoping it will pass.

[hornblower]

 

 

I am hoping it will pass.

 

:grouphug:

 

This too shall pass.

[LLMom]

I have dealt with depression on and off all my life, and am dealing with it again now, but it is also combined with burnout. I work as well as homeschool and I have zero joy in my work right now (i run my own business) and am exhausted. HS-ing is being neglected. My mood is so low. I am trying to make positive changes--reducing my hours at work, going to begin yoga again once i reduce my hours, spending more time with the kids on homeschool (this actually lifts my mood--HSing has been neglected, or rather, my involvement with their hs-ing has been neglected, and I need to refocus.

 

I am hoping it will pass.

If those things don't help, please seek outside help. Total crash and burn can usually be avoided.

[Halcyon]

I am on medication--but i know myself well enough to know that if i burrn the candle at both ends long enough, i will eventually burnout. i have been working very hard, dealing with stress from family things, and trying to juggle the kids' needs as well. Time to back off.. 

[LostSurprise]

Lots of good information here. 

 

I don't have definitions for you, but I do know that burnout can be a reason to seek help, especially if you can't (for whatever reason) recharge, organize, or change your life to acquire more balance. Therapy can help you find ways to improve your life and promote balance. Medication can eliminate some of the anxiety so you can make changes in your life. Once you bring things back in balance burnout tends to disappear. From what I understand clinical depression can be different. Therapy can help, but sometimes you're correcting years of chemical and life unbalance. It's a bit more complex. 

 

I wish you the best. Whatever you're facing, it's important that you pay attention to your needs. 

[texasmama]

I am on medication--but i know myself well enough to know that if i burrn the candle at both ends long enough, i will eventually burnout. i have been working very hard, dealing with stress from family things, and trying to juggle the kids' needs as well. Time to back off.. 

Some of us are chronic "self-pushers", in that we push ourselves and overload ourselves chronically.  I tend towards this.  My dad says, "You like a full plate and then just a little bit more."  He's right.  

 

Sometimes I realize I am doing this, and I force myself to stop for a bit.  It takes effort.

 

It sounds like it is time to back off, Halcyon, but you know it and will do it.  (((hugs)))

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

...gently...

 

It  doesn't have to be one or the other.  Both can be in the mix.  

 

Burnout that extends longer than it should can also lead to anxiety/depression. Ask me how I know. :(

 

Agreed. Burnout and depression go hand in hand for me.

 

 

I have dealt with depression on and off all my life, and am dealing with it again now, but it is also combined with burnout. I work as well as homeschool and I have zero joy in my work right now (i run my own business) and am exhausted. HS-ing is being neglected. My mood is so low. I am trying to make positive changes--reducing my hours at work, going to begin yoga again once i reduce my hours, spending more time with the kids on homeschool (this actually lifts my mood--HSing has been neglected, or rather, my involvement with their hs-ing has been neglected, and I need to refocus). 

 

I am hoping it will pass.

 

:grouphug:  I'm in a similar place right now, and I'm having a hard time getting out of it on my own. I wish I had some magic words for both of us. 

[Halcyon]

Agreed. Burnout and depression go hand in hand for me.

 

 

 

:grouphug:  I'm in a similar place right now, and I'm having a hard time getting out of it on my own. I wish I had some magic words for both of us. 

 

 

If you feel like pm-ing me so we can support each other during this time, I check in most days.

[Halcyon]

Some of us are chronic "self-pushers", in that we push ourselves and overload ourselves chronically.  I tend towards this.  My dad says, "You like a full plate and then just a little bit more."  He's right.  

 

Sometimes I realize I am doing this, and I force myself to stop for a bit.  It takes effort.

 

It sounds like it is time to back off, Halcyon, but you know it and will do it.  (((hugs)))

 

 

Yep, that's me. 

 

I so wanted my business to succeed, and I worked really hard at it. And it DID succeed! But at what cost? I am tired, my kids' education is suffering--or at least I don't feel like I am devoting the time to it that I want to--and so is my home life. I am going to cut back to 3 days from 4 days (all part-time days) in May. I am going to start going to yoga 1-2 times a week in addition to my current gym time. I am going to pick up my hobbies again (either knitting or zentangling or coloring--or maybe all three! I have enough yarn to knit the universe a giant sweater) and I am going to cook again. 

 

That's the plan, anyway.

[Luckymama]

Oh, you guys :grouphug:

[texasmama]

I like your plan.  :)  I am not working at all right now.  I am dealing with a lot of family and extended family things, and I don't miss working one tiny bit.  I quit my job a year ago and have only done some sporadic consulting work and a smattering of therapy since.

[imagine.more]

Coming back to add that I have known when I needed medical intervention and/or therapy when I had suicidal thoughts and when I was so overwhelmed and my senses so dulled that I was barely able to meet the children's minimal needs. For me, it was situational (my dh was unemployed while my mother was disabled and in the process of dying and one of my kids was being diagnosed with delays/issues). My dh eventually got a job, my mother passed away and I grieved, and I adjusted to having a child with special needs. Being depressed was not my norm. I was also very anxious during that time and found myself unable to make the simplest decisions. I would become paralyzed about what toddler car seat to buy, for instance. That is not my norm, either.

 

Sending you some (((hugs))), Moxie.

Yes this is my experience of depression as well though mine is constant and not situational. But it manifests very similarly.

 

I normally function fine but situations or hormones can tip the scales so that i require more than sunshine, exercise, and an afternoon alone to cope. My personal guideline for when i get on medication or not are the following:

 

- suicidal thoughts

- intrusive thoughts (this is a ppd thing but crazy random thoughts or images that don't make sense)

- unable to take care of kids basic needs without feeling crazy overwhelmed

- anxious about simple decisions (ie the carseat example above)

- anxious about simple things (driving, meeting new people, and caring for the kids alone for a weekend are common things to get overly anxious about for moms)

- yelling at kids/husband over normal behavior (ie leaving socks on the floor)

- unable to exercise (feels like it'd take a monumental effort to even walk on the treadmill)

- zero interest in things i like (ie sewing, drawing, reading) like suddenly even all tv shows seem terribly dull

- not wanting to go to church/spiritual crisis. I've especially noticed if i am avoiding confession like the plague i'm probably really depressed, lol

- everything makes me feel tired/no change or improvement energizes me for more than a day max

 

So any 2-3 of those = severe enough depression to use meds to get myself out of the rut. Those would also be good signs of benefitting from counseling if you have access to counseling in your area.

 

I agree with a pp that Susan Bauer's talk on burnout is excellent and very worth a listen! She does a good job talking about depression and burnout imo.