Severe distractibility in 12yo boy. Is there anything we can do to help him?

[abrightmom]

DS12 is a GREAT kid.  :coolgleamA:

 

His distractibility challenges have gotten NO better over the years. I have to ride him constantly and FAR more than any of my other children and in all areas of life EXCEPT his obsession with all things Lego.

 

He is a boy. I understand this. But, I know lots of boys (have 3 of my own, gobs of boys in my life in the form of nephews and buddies to my kids :) ) and THIS boy has a tough time with focus. He is distracted by his own BRAIN. I could put him in an empty, sound proof room and he'd still not get through a modest to do list in a reasonable amount of time. 

 

He is always off in his own world OR chatting about it (he's a talker).

He is staring into space.

He wanders. A lot.

He goes down to put 1 thing away and forgets to come back. 

He leaves to use the bathroom and forgets to come back.

He loses stuff, puts his clothes on backwards (still!! after all these years :) ), drops things, forgets, etc. An absent minded professor type .... 

He says he is always BURSTING with ideas that need to get out and it makes him feel "stressed and overwhelmed".

Loves to create: write, build, design (games, Lego, gadgets)

Says that classical music RELAXES him and helps him to focus (why is this?)

He LOVES the trampoline (the small, rebounder) and it relaxes him. He jumps and thinks. A lot.

 

Based on lots of things I have read (books, websites) I think he has significant challenges with Executive Skills and that he is a Right Brain kid (still reading on this one). He may have A.D.D. as he certainly fits the checklists I've done (not sure how accurate or truly helpful those are). I don't know that a diagnosis matters  but I want to know how to HELP him get on top of the inability to focus and stay on task. It's truly affecting his life and our family with no improvement over the years. 

 

We have had him tested twice at a place called H.E.L.P. (Help Eliminate Learning Problems); once at age 8 and once at age 11. At age 8 his scores in 12 areas of cognitive development were fascinatingly asynchronous (unusual they said) in that according to their assessment he was processing like a college student in some areas and at the lowest possible place in others. We considered the program (a "brain training" type of program) but we were unable to make it work logistically. Now, we have options due to Skype/Facetime and other resources. His results to the same test at age 11 were better though his "weak" areas remained lowest (though they were up in the "normal" range for his age). We didn't feel that his scores warranted spending $3500 on the program YET (though it isn't off the table as it *could* really help him ... it's such a huge financial risk when his scores are normal now).

 

It's so hard to convey what he is like in writing. It's a drain on his life and our relationship. HARD tactics always blow up. We have to tread gently and seek to be joyful and loving toward him while gently helping. If we confront with a hard line consequence he implodes as a person (panics, feels utterly overwhelmed and in despair, has even wanted to leave this earth :( ). We have learned that he doesn't need some "kick in the pants" like some kiddos do as he isn't choosing to be lazy or disobedient. I believe he is genuinely unable to focus or stay on task UNLESS he is doing his thing: Lego, writing, designing, thinking (he is so creative and is literally bursting with inspiration all.the.time and he says it sometimes HURTS because he has so many ideas he needs to get out). 

 

I don't know what to ask.

 

Should we put him through some sort of cognitive therapy to help his thinking/brain/executive function/???

Can Dianne Craft materials help here? I am FASCINATED by the stuff on her site but would literally have to buy it outright as I can't find it via friend or library here. It looks like, based on samples and articles on her site, that her work is very much like the work done at the H.E.L.P. place and would be far less expensive (though require ME to learn and facilitate). 

Supplements or nutrition? We aren't awful but we aren't Paleo either. We take Fermented Cod Liver Oil/High Vitamin Butter Blend and D3 (when it isn't summer).

 

I have seen NO GROWTH in this area with time and maturity. It bothers him. He feels like he doesn't know what to do about it ..... feels like he's failing at times. Feels worthless and hopeless. Maybe I need to keep with my gentle parenting and incessant reminding (argh!) and hope for the best? I'd like to see growth though and an increase in his ability to stay on task. He DOES manage to stay on task with math but I don't require him to spend more than 45m -1h on math daily (and it's USUALLY about 45m) in two blocks with a trampoline break in between. 

[EKS]

You could try medication.  Actually, try coffee first just to see what happens.  

 

We also found a protein breakfast to help quite a bit.

 

But time is probably going to help more than anything else.

[Mbelle]

My son is similar to this.  Also struggles a great deal with insomnia.  He takes calcium/magnesium/zinc at bedtime. He has so many ideas at once and processes things very fast so that sometimes it is too fast for his speech, but as he's gotten older that has improved.

 

He does drink half a cup of coffee every morning.  Also whole body exercises help, but actually they are hard for him.  I send him out running with his older sister. He doesn't have to keep up with her, but just keep her in his sight.

 

One of my friends is an OT and she thinks mild sensory issues could be at play too.  So things like jumping on the trampoline are filling that need.  I once took him to an obstacle tree top place.  He loved it and he is good at it.  Could not believe it.

 

My son is very smart and I started giving him more and harder work, but I do have to be nearby to keep that focus/attention drawn back to the work.  I think he could do more, but right now I want to work on the attention/focus.

 

I look forward to seeing responses to this.

[EKS]

Agreeing with Mbelle--exercise in the morning (especially with coffee!) does wonders.

 

Also agreeing with the idea of harder work.  I've found that work that is too easy makes my kids space out, but harder work makes them think and focus.

[AmyontheFarm]

I did resort to a windowless room, in the basement with white noise so he can't hear when Dad drives in with a tractor.  Protein heavy breakfasts help a lot.  We just started with magnesium so I can't speak to that yet.  Amazingly, with school work, the harder it is, the happier he is.

[sbgrace]

He sounds very much like my 10 year old.

 

Medication really did help my son, though in his case it aggravated (pre-existing) OCD and hyper-focus brain stuff. I wish it hadn't, because it was major life improvement for all of us in all ways except the anxiety.

 

Anyway, a medication trial sounds really warranted based on what you described. I think most people who finally try wish they had tried sooner.

 

If you want to try other things first, natural things which have studies supporting their use include:

Pycnogenol . Pediatric asthma studies use 1 mg. per pound, and that is the dose that helps ADHD here. The  ADHD studies use about 1/2 that (1 mk per kg).

Here is a pediatric ADHD study with dosing http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16699814

The asthma doses do help my son, though not as much as the prescription med did, though it also doesn't cause OCD for him  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12639402  (1 mg per pound, maximum 200 mg) 

 

Another thing to research might be phosphatidylserine--study with dosing http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23495677

 

I think it might be helpful, given his distress, to try a prescription medication first. See how that works, then see if you can get the same or close to the same effect with natural choices.

[Mom22ns]

:grouphug:

 

I don't really know what the HELP center you dealt with is, but you need to get him evaluated by someone who can give you a complete evaluation, diagnosis if appropriate and strategies for moving forward. This should not be someone who is pushing the sales of their product/service.  

 

Would Diane Craft materials help? They might. I haven't used them, but I've never met anyone who did who regretted it. 

 

Are there strategies you can use with him to help him? Yes there really are, both to work on his executive functioning and to help him through his day, but he may be so distractible that those strategies will not be enough. To give suggestions, I'd have to know much more about what you are currently doing and what is and isn't working.

 

Finally, I want to invite you over to the learning challenges board. I promise we don't bite and you'll find a great deal of wisdom about dealing with highly distractible children. The first and most common response you will get though is to start with a diagnosis.

[abrightmom]

Thanks everyone. Good ideas and food for thought here.

 

Why coffee? :)  

 

How do I give him harder school work? I had hoped to enroll him in some online classes but honestly backed down due to worries over the distractibility. I don't want to overwhelm him and its scary to risk a $500 class (was looking at the WTM Academy writing and also Latin .... ). I'm not sure what harder would look like if he's "on level" in math and other subjects. I steer clear of anything that is "busy" for him as he questions pointless and useless assignments. He'd prefer to "just do it orally" or skip it because he already gets it. Even in math I'm not REALLY sure .... He DOES focus better there (so many silly little careless errors though). We use Math Mammoth and I'm trying to cut out how much I ask of him without sacrificing mastery.

 

:grouphug:

 

I don't really know what the HELP center you dealt with is, but you need to get him evaluated by someone who can give you a complete evaluation, diagnosis if appropriate and strategies for moving forward. This should not be someone who is pushing the sales of their product/service.  

 

Would Diane Craft materials help? They might. I haven't used them, but I've never met anyone who did who regretted it. 

 

Are there strategies you can use with him to help him? Yes there really are, both to work on his executive functioning and to help him through his day, but he may be so distractible that those strategies will not be enough. To give suggestions, I'd have to know much more about what you are currently doing and what is and isn't working.

 

Finally, I want to invite you over to the learning challenges board. I promise we don't bite and you'll find a great deal of wisdom about dealing with highly distractible children. The first and most common response you will get though is to start with a diagnosis.

 

What kind of place or person would I go to for a complete evaluation? Is there a name for what kind of evaluation I would want? 

 

Should I post the same questions on the learning challenges board or just enjoy reading over there? I do think (and have dipped my toe in the water in posting about this kiddo in the past) he is SO SMART and CAPABLE if only these issues weren't bogging him down. Our relationship is MUCH better since DH and I have backed down on some of our hard line tactics (they were motivated by love and concern and it took us a good while to figure out we were making things WORSE!).

[Garga]

The coffee is for the caffeine.  You can also use an Irish Breakfast tea if you like.  The caffeine stimulates the brain like the ADD meds do.  A person with an ADD brain actually calms down when given a stimulant.  Some ADD people use caffeine to self-mediate.  Others turn to harder illegal drugs, but since you're on this with your guy, he'll know how to handle his issues without illegal drugs!

 

My DH started ADHD meds at age 42 and loooooved them.  He could focus for the first time in his life and he was very pleased with the results.  We started giving them to our son (who was just like his dad) and the improvements were immediate.  I mean, like 20 minutes after he took the first pill he sat and did a math worksheet in under 5 minutes and all the problems were correct.

 

Also, the meds haven't changed the personalities of my DH or DS.  It's just made their good attributes come out even more, and the bad ones have receded.  Actually, they're even more awesome on the meds, wittier and more upbeat, than without.

[MiMi 4under3]

I agree with the coffee suggestions...

 

:grouphug: 

[Storygirl]

Thanks everyone. Good ideas and food for thought here.

 

Why coffee? :)

 

For some people with ADHD, caffeine does the same (or similar) thing that the ADHD meds do -- it stimulates areas of the brain that allow the student to focus more on the areas that they need to focus on, instead of being distracted by every single thing going on.

 

 

What kind of place or person would I go to for a complete evaluation? Is there a name for what kind of evaluation I would want? 

 

Start with an appointment with the pediatrician. They may refer him to a psychologist or a psychiatrist for further evaluation. The most thorough screening would be with a pediatric neuropsychologist, but that may be a step down the line, because it can be expensive, and insurance may not pay. It's also common to have to wait a long time (months) for an appointment. So a child psych (for a behavioral assessment) or a psychiatrist (because they can prescribe meds) might be the first stop after the pediatrician. You can also ask your local school to assess him, even if he is homeschooled.

 

 

Should I post the same questions on the learning challenges board or just enjoy reading over there?

 

Absolutely. The people who post there know just what you are going through and have a lot of wisdom to share. Come on over!

 

Also, I will add that there are a lot of approaches other than medication that can help with executive function and attention issues, but for DS10, meds have by far made the most difference (he wears his clothes inside out and backwards, too, by the way). Some people are anti-medicating (I was there for 10 years), but it can be an effective tool. DH and I decided we didn't want to withhold from DS a tool that could help him succeed better in life. In your shoes, I wouldn't automatically jump to the idea that medicating is the best answer but would explore all the options that the experts offer you. Get the evaluations. Explore the options. Try some things out. Learn what makes a difference in the life of your son and your family. I guarantee you will be glad to get some answers.

[PeterPan]

What kind of place or person would I go to for a complete evaluation? Is there a name for what kind of evaluation I would want? 

 

Should I post the same questions on the learning challenges board or just enjoy reading over there? I do think (and have dipped my toe in the water in posting about this kiddo in the past) he is SO SMART and CAPABLE if only these issues weren't bogging him down. Our relationship is MUCH better since DH and I have backed down on some of our hard line tactics (they were motivated by love and concern and it took us a good while to figure out we were making things WORSE!).

Neuropsychologist, one who is really well-regarded for ADHD, someone who is known for giving helpful feedback and for being homeschool-friendly.  Our psych with dd was awesome.  He listened to everything and gave me courage to go forward in ways I wouldn't have had the guts to do otherwise.

 

The full eval is going to go WAY beyond a label.  You'll get processing speed, IQ, all kinds of little breakdowns on things like motor control, word retrieval, etc.  We were able to solve so many problems with evals because we finally had the data to explain the things that were plaguing us.  HIGHLY recommend evals, can't say that enough.

 

Btw, my dd got her evals at 12.  It was a situation like yours, where we hit the wall and just could not go forward.  Turning point for us, HUGE.  And waiting so long was such a big mistake, I'm not making that one again.  ;)  My ds just got his evals last week, and we get our results next week.  He's very emotionally fragile, as you say, and yes I *try* to work with him like you're describing.  I think you're really wise to be listening to your Mother Gut there and I'm very inspired by how well it has worked out for you.  I think you deserve the right words and he does too.  Frankly, you deserve to know that ADHD is the *right* description.  You never know.  There were things our psych said about dd that, at the time, I sort of poo-pooed and blew off.  I reread that report monthly for a year, and now, 3 years later, I realize how prescient and insightful he was.  He saw things in her that I couldn't yet see objectively, but once he identified them I could see them and stop aggravating them.  So it was good.

 

So yes, 2Ns is right, you need evals.  Your $$$$ cognitive therapy is interesting.  There are certainly plenty of cognitive therapies out there and maybe your place has some blend of things that is really worth it.  The internet has made things SO accessible, I think sometimes we have more options than we realize to implement stuff ourselves.  You can do, for instance, a hack version of Interactive Metronome at home yourself for FREE.  You can add in digit spans.  You can get info on Neuronet and subscribe to it by (I forget, quarters?) for a moderate price.  You can find an OT who will create a body work plan incorporating Brain Gym, etc. if you want that and then just go to them say once a month for homework.  You can do Balavisix yourself at home.  You really have options.

 

Neurofeedback is the one thing I haven't found a series replacement or home version for.  There is one, but I'm not sure it's actually reputable, dunno.  Neurofeedback is *considered* as effective as meds and permanent.

 

Good evals will cost you $1-3K.  I agree there's that question of whether that money is better spent on cognitive therapy with someone or evals.  Maybe they've given you a lot of that info in the evals you've had so far?  If you want meds, obviously you're going to want to get evals or at least a ped label.  Anyways, you can just think/pray it through and decide.  Hard to do your own evals, but it is possible to do your own therapy.  :)

[Storygirl]

I'll also add that sensory issues can look like ADHD, so I'd suggest having him evaluated by an occupational therapist as well.

[PeterPan]

And yeah, you don't want to go to LC.  People have glow in the dark kids over there and...  :D

 

Yes, the first few times I posted there it felt like I was coming out or saying something about my kids.  Then I got over it and realized it was just a non-pressured place to be who you are, to admit things are confusing and complex, to ask for help with contradictory and confusing situations.  :)

[She Reads a Lot]

Did you fly to my house and peek in my windows anytime last year?? Because you are describing my son to a T before we figured out that SPD was causing his ADHD. Last year (he was nine), he got diagnosed with ADHD and dyslexia, not that either was a surprise to me, since we'd been homeschooling for 2 1/2 years at that point. We were already doing the Barton Reading & Spelling.

 

What did surprise me was that ADD/ADHD is no joke. I'd always known he was a high energy, distractible kid and public school was a disaster for him. But reading "Driven to Distraction" was seriously eye opening. It showed me that instead of just thinking he would outgrow it, we needed to help him. It talked about how ADD/ADHD kids tend to have more car accidents, spend their money unwisely/impulsively, even have higher percentages of substance abuse because they try to self medicate to get focus. Seriously threw me for a loop, and this wasn't some wacko book--apparently it is the gold standard in ADD/ADHD research/books.

 

So, we tried three different stimulant medications but they made him jittery and he felt awful/sick on every one. Then a friend mentioned again that I consider Sensory Processing Disorder. I thought it was just for highly reactive kids. I was wrong. People can be over reactive or under reactive in eight different areas. Our son is under reactive to touch (always bumping into things), for example. We did a questionnaire with our OT and he was off the charts in six of the eight areas. Even the OT was surprised by the extent of it.

 

Fast forward six months, and he is a different child. We did about four months of OT really focused in on the SPD and it has transformed my son. He feels better. We feel better. School is so much better it's hard to put into words how relieved I am! The best part is that *he* is so proud of himself because he can focus way better and he is functioning so much better. Warning: the OT made us cut screen time back to two hours per day. I thought this might kill all of us, but it has been a big part of how much better he is doing. We see this when he has lots of screen time on a sick day.

 

So now that I've written you a novella, OP, hopefully this is a little bit helpful in terms of seeing that you can remediate or ameliorate ADD/ADHD and/or SPD with help from an OT and without paying a fortune to that program you mentioned. He does his regulating activities each morning before school (jumping on the trampoline, weighted ball presses, wall presses, etc.) and they make such a difference.

 

I would encourage you to look into how you can help your son, since it will help all of you. He will be getting a lot less negative feedback from the family, and you will have much more peace b/c your kiddo won't feel so out of sync. BTW, that is a book you can read "The Out-of-Sync Child" about SPD but it is much less fun to read than "Driven to Distraction"--it's a little dry.

 

Best of luck!

Christina

 

[She Reads a Lot]

So while I was typing my novella, Storygirl said exactly what I was trying to say in one sentence. Srriously.

 

Any my son at 10 still wears his clothes inside out and backward, too, though it's mostly down to pajamas now. He mostly gets his day clothes right these days. Why did I just realize that? Sigh. Another sign of progress and I had overlooked it! 

 

 

[ondreeuh]

I looked in the HELP program at Marylhurst a few years ago. Anyway, from what I remember their whole stance is that they are against meds and instead use their program to grow the brain in a way that "fixes" ADHD ... anyway, as a parent with 3 kids with ADHD I think it's just pure BS. They have their own agenda and are not qualified to evaluate medical conditions. The head guy is a former school psychologist. They are selling their services and it is part of their business model to state that they can CURE you with their program.

 

If your child is that affected by ADHD, then it is a disability. You owe it to him to treat him and not just accommodate symptoms. It breaks my heart to see a child needlessly suffer - and you know what happens when kids with severe ADHD aren't treated? They lose confidence in themselves, believe they are stupid, become oppositional, achieve far below their potential, and are at a higher risk of self-medicating with things that are a whole lot scarier than prescription meds.

 

The fact that you asked what you could do without mentioning meds makes me wonder if you are already influenced by the anti-med propaganda. ADHD is a real medical disorder and most people respond well to medical treatment for it. I'm not saying other things can't help too - but clearly you've tried a lot of things. In my experience, other things can help alleviate some of the intensity, but only meds have brought any kind of normal brain function.

[Lori D.]

Getting on meds that help is be the very best thing for some people. It does not mean your DS has to be on it for life. It does not mean you are harming him or drugging him. There are a number of people on this board with students on Ritalin because it IS what helps the students succeed. Yes, meds are frequently over-prescribed, esp. in school settings where teachers need to keep control of big classes. But that is not your situation.

 

I'd suggest getting a formal evaluation with a knowledgable physician, and if meds are recommended, go ahead and give it a trial run. Again, it doesn't have to be forever, and if it is not helping, you can discontinue. (Note: be sure to carefully follow any special instructions for stopping meds, as some meds -- some anti-depressents, for example -- you can't just quit "cold turkey" without negative reaction.)

 

Some things you can try while waiting to get in for formal evaluation:

 

Physical/nutritional helps to reduce distractibility:

- remove all dyes and sugars, and from the diet

- also try removing all wheat and dairy to see if there is a hidden food intolerance triggering distractibility

- add probiotics (acidophilus and bifidusto) to increase "good bacteria" in the gut -- an imbalance can lead to all kinds of mood and attention disorders

- add nutritional supplements: a yeast-free multi-vitamin; essential fatty acids through fish oil capsules or orange flavored cod liver oil -- or flaxseed oil that also contains borage oil; fish oil for the DHA

- 5-HTP can help with focus/concentration; take 1 of those in the morning, and then fish oil at night

- melatonin can help, if he does not sleep well

 

Tips for schooling:

- alternate short bursts of concentration (10-20 minutes), then a short burst of high energy exercise

- have DS stand at a counter to do "seat work", which allows for movement to help focus

- try "chewie" or "feelie" fidgets to allow tactile stimulation

- sitting on a big yoga ball at the coffee table can increase focus (allows "micro movements" for balance, which help keep focus)

 

Additional possible helps:

- a little caffeine on days he absolutely needs some focus -- half a cup of coffee, for example

- limit overall screen times each day

- NO screens at least 2 hours before bedtime (TV, computer, e-reader, i-pad, etc. -- the light and the subliminal screen redraws keep triggering brain cells to fire for up to 2 hours after stopping) 

[abrightmom]

I've purchased a few books to help me along as I investigate these issues with DS 12 (and DD8). Admittedly, they set my mind to spinning as there is so much info. out there. The lines between "typical behavior and normal kiddo stuff" and "these are issues that should be evaluated" are blurred for me. :) 

 

Any recommendations on how to find a reputable, homeschool friendly neuropsych? Pediatrician recommendation and church family are my starting points and perhaps the best way to go.  :coolgleamA:

[ondreeuh]

If you're in the Portland area, we had a good experience with The Children's Program in Multnomah Village. Dr. Sosne was very thorough, got accurate results from my kid (as you know these kids can be hard to test!) and gave a clear report. I would have liked more specific info on where to go from there, but we were getting my ds evaluated for LDs. We already knew about the ADHD and it was being addressed.

[abrightmom]

I looked in the HELP program at Marylhurst a few years ago. Anyway, from what I remember their whole stance is that they are against meds and instead use their program to grow the brain in a way that "fixes" ADHD ... anyway, as a parent with 3 kids with ADHD I think it's just pure BS. They have their own agenda and are not qualified to evaluate medical conditions. The head guy is a former school psychologist. They are selling their services and it is part of their business model to state that they can CURE you with their program.

 

If your child is that affected by ADHD, then it is a disability. You owe it to him to treat him and not just accommodate symptoms. It breaks my heart to see a child needlessly suffer - and you know what happens when kids with severe ADHD aren't treated? They lose confidence in themselves, believe they are stupid, become oppositional, achieve far below their potential, and are at a higher risk of self-medicating with things that are a whole lot scarier than prescription meds.

 

The fact that you asked what you could do without mentioning meds makes me wonder if you are already influenced by the anti-med propaganda. ADHD is a real medical disorder and most people respond well to medical treatment for it. I'm not saying other things can't help too - but clearly you've tried a lot of things. In my experience, other things can help alleviate some of the intensity, but only meds have brought any kind of normal brain function.

 

I see him with ADD rather than ADHD unless distractibility is part of the 'H'. He is NOT hyperactive but his sister is (oh my word!). 

 

I am not opposed to medication :). I'd probably prefer to try other things first (such as those Lori mentioned) and one thing sticks way out in my mind: food dye. He had a crazy, serious reaction to food dye as a little boy (age 5 or 6). I mostly avoid it but our church has had a ridiculous amount of candy distribution going on this year and just this past weekend I was discussing with DH that it has to STOP. It's awful for the kids and DS12 stashes it away and has a steady supply of it. He doesn't pig out at all (he is very willing to delay gratification) but it HAS been more a part of his diet these past few months than ever before (this candy issue started in the summer with some programs that were running). We are currently discussing how to handle the candy situation as I've had it!  It's also more sugar than I prefer my kids to have. It's no longer a "treat". 

[Dory]

We seem to be a mild ADD family. Not my immediate family, but me, my youngest son, my two younger brothers, my grandfather, my one aunt and two of my cousins are that way. We self medicate with coffee. It's amazing how much we get done on that stuff. If he is ADD, caffeine is a stimulant and should help it. Also, I keep something in my hands or mouth that takes no thought but keeps some part of me moving. That helps with my focus too.

 

I have no idea if I'm repeating someone else or if this is just ridiculous. It's past midnight here and I didn't read through all the answers. I wasn't focusing on them well, lol.

[PeterPan]

Brightmom, google DSM5 ADHD and see how it's currently handled.  ADD is no longer a label.  You get ADHD and a subtype.  And yes, the subtypes can be DRAMATICALLY different.  We'll see what happens with my ds.  If they tack an ADHD label on him, there's no way in the WORLD he's the same as my dd, because they are totally night and day, lol.  I guess the psych will do what he'll do, lol.  

 

Neuropsychologist.  You're not gonna like this answer, so don't squirm, but the best way to find the good neuropsychs is to find out who is popular for the ASD (autism) kids.  Now some neuropsychs do *only* ASD, yes, but there will be so much ADHD in the ASD population (and so much crossover of symptoms, frankly) that it's a good way to get clued in to who might be good.  

 

I googled a lot, looking for referral lists.  People have mentioned OT to you.  You'll sometimes find OT places have put their referral lists online.  Or find the popular OT and ask them who they refer to.  I like that confirmation of multiple places.

 

Find who is doing neurofeedback near you and see who they refer to.  

Find OTs doing Interactive Metronome and see who they refer to.

 

None of it is foolproof, just ways of comparing your lists.

 

If the psych is in a children's hospital, it's hard to talk with them first, but PRIVATE psychs will usually return calls and talk with you.  Might take a day or two, but they'll call you back.  That will let you decide for yourself if they're homeschool friendly, what they mostly see, how much they charge.  Ask what tests they would likely do, how many hours of testing they do, how long their reports are, and what their experience has been with homeschoolers.  

 

If you talk with several like this, you'll get opinions pretty quickly.  Our first psych (dd's eval) was a sit on my couch and pour it out, I'll listen, kind of psych.  He was AWESOME.  The psych I'm using with ds is totally different.  He's so fast-paced it cracks me up. Whatever, just different.  I call it the "no time to cry" approach, and since there's actually been a lot of crying in our house (at least on my part) over this, I'm actually glad for it.  He clearly LIKES the kids, enjoys them, doesn't view them as defective/broken/worthless, and I really appreciate it and am trying to take it in.  

 

So they're just going to vary.  Pray, take your time, and find the one that meets your needs.  

[Mom22ns]

Why jump thru all these hoops? If a child seems like he has ADD he probably does.  If he is 12 and not 5 and he can't learn because of it the easiest and most eficient approach is a trial of meds.

 

Go to the ped or family doctor and use the Conner scale and if he qualifies try ritalin or one of its relatives.  Its safe and effective.

 

The reason you jump through the hoops is because there is much to learn besides that he is ADD and can take drugs.

 

If you learn from testing his particular strengths and weaknesses and how best to use the strengths and accommodate the weaknesses he may be able to get by in a homeschool situation without needing meds. He will also still have those same strengths and weaknesses with the medication and learning how to deal with them to his best advantage will be a benefit even if he does take medication to help the ADD.

 

Giving drugs to a child is not every parents first choice. The OP has said she is willing but would prefer to try alternatives first. That is her right. Both the safety (side effects) and the effectiveness of ADHD drugs vary for each child. You can't speak for hers. She gets to do that.

[katilac]

 Maybe I need to keep with my gentle parenting and incessant reminding (argh!) and hope for the best? 

 

No. I cannot emphasize strongly enough how much I think additional action is needed. 

 

It sounds like you have been doing a great job with the gentle parenting and reminding, yet it's been years and you say his distractibility challenges have gotten no better. 

 

Much more worrying than the distractibility itself is the way it is affecting your ds emotionally, based on some of your wording: He feels stressed and overwhelmed. It is affecting his life and family life. It's a drain on his life. Panic, utterly overwhelmed, in despair, has even wanted to leave this earth. 

 

I bunched all those descriptions together, and I realize they don't apply all the time, but I think you are describing a boy in crisis. He's suffering. You've been great about working with him and trying to help, but at this point, he needs more or different help. 

 

Personally, I would probably go for an ADD evaluation first: it sounds very likely, it can usually be done quickly, and it's often easy to tell if meds are going to help (not always). Then, you can delve deeper and try other things as you learn more and get a handle on things. I know you said you'd prefer to try other things first, but haven't you been trying other things for years and years? 

 

Best of luck to you and your son! 

[Mom22ns]

And yeah, you don't want to go to LC.  People have glow in the dark kids over there and...   :D

 

Yes, the first few times I posted there it felt like I was coming out or saying something about my kids.  Then I got over it and realized it was just a non-pressured place to be who you are, to admit things are confusing and complex, to ask for help with contradictory and confusing situations.   :)

 

You should know OE. I think her's glows brightest.  :lol:

 

Seriously though, the advantage of the LC board is that it is a judgement free zone with the only people around those that have dealt with some kind of issue with their otherwise terrific kids. Maybe not your issue, but some kind. Most people have been through evals and can talk about who they saw, what they gained, and help you understand the eval if your evaluator didn't. It is a slower paced board. People drop in now and then as opposed to so many there, but it is a great place to get btdt advice. I know I tend to share more freely there about ds's struggles than here because I know those reading it there will get it. My oldest is 2e with a stack of labels. He has overcome many challenges, and fights through more every day. We win some and we lose some, but in the long run he is winning.

[PeterPan]

The reason you jump through the hoops is because there is much to learn besides that he is ADD and can take drugs.

 

Adding, you jump through the hoops and get the evals so you don't end up like one of the percentage who realize there was MORE going on or that the drug-dispenser ped got the label wrong entirely.  And you get the eval because meds alone aren't going to change how you homeschool, how you teach, or give you information on how his brain works.  They're not going to catch issues that need to be referred for (OT, vision, etc.).  

[texasmama]

No. I cannot emphasize strongly enough how much I think additional action is needed. 

 

It sounds like you have been doing a great job with the gentle parenting and reminding, yet it's been years and you say his distractibility challenges have gotten no better. 

 

Much more worrying than the distractibility itself is the way it is affecting your ds emotionally, based on some of your wording: He feels stressed and overwhelmed. It is affecting his life and family life. It's a drain on his life. Panic, utterly overwhelmed, in despair, has even wanted to leave this earth. 

 

I bunched all those descriptions together, and I realize they don't apply all the time, but I think you are describing a boy in crisis. He's suffering. You've been great about working with him and trying to help, but at this point, he needs more or different help. 

 

Personally, I would probably go for an ADD evaluation first: it sounds very likely, it can usually be done quickly, and it's often easy to tell if meds are going to help (not always). Then, you can delve deeper and try other things as you learn more and get a handle on things. I know you said you'd prefer to try other things first, but haven't you been trying other things for years and years? 

 

Best of luck to you and your son! 

This is my take on it, as well.

 

I come from a "try other things but do not fear meds" perspective, though, and I have seen kids' lives changed overnight for the better when they began ADHD meds. 

 

My kids do not have ADHD, and I would not go first to meds, but I would not be afraid to do a trial to see the result.  It should be very clear pretty much immediately if the meds help.  Untreated ADHD is akin to a learning disability.  Truly. 

 

I am familiar with Cogmed, and I know someone whose child did this program.  It had some benefit, however, it did not replace his ADHD meds.  I view meds for ADHD much as I do meds for depression.  Sure, take fish oil and exercise and sleep well and attend psychotherapy.  If these things do not bring you relief, go get an SSRI.  No one should have to suffer when there are alternatives.

[PeterPan]

No. I cannot emphasize strongly enough how much I think additional action is needed. 

...

I bunched all those descriptions together, and I realize they don't apply all the time, but I think you are describing a boy in crisis. He's suffering. You've been great about working with him and trying to help, but at this point, he needs more or different help. 

 

:iagree:   I had done SO many things to accommodate and work with her, but we hit this WALL when she was 12.  It took three ladies backchannel from here on the boards BEGGING me...  Sometimes it takes that outside perspective and jolt.  Or as my local friend put it: Wow, you've been dealing with this for a LONG time.  As in it's ok to ask for help.  

 

Ask for help.  Getting the evals does NOT mean you have to go on meds.  It's actually the best way for you to make that decision, because then you have full information.  At the time we got our evals, the psych didn't think we needed meds because what we were doing was WORKING.  It's not like every psych is out there to medicate all kids.  Some are pretty flexible; ours was.  But I think that's a yearly evaluation: IS IT WORKING?  It's nice to have options.  It helps to have accurate information.  And remember, neurofeedback is considered a tier 1 intervention by the APA, as effective as meds, and permanent.  You have OPTIONS.  With no evals, you don't know the options.  

[PeterPan]

I do agree with this to some extent, but for homeschool moms who spend all day with their kids and really know them this almost seems like a non issue to me.

 

Unless you really are completely baffled by your child.

 

My son also has dyslexia which I knew in grade 1 and it wasn't confirmed until the testing when he was 10.  So he went officially undx'ed.  But I knew.  At 10 the neuropsych didn't give an autism dx.  But I knew.  And at 15 he got one. And it didn't change anything.  Bc I knew that he was on the spectrum.  LOL

Just as a side question, what do you think accounts for the staggered diagnoses?  Different psychs?  Different focus in the evals?  I've been wondering this for some time, because I've seen a number of people describing unfoldings like this.

[Erin]

I just wanted to toss in that in addition to testing, meds, etc. age WILL help.  

I'm raising this kid, too.  Ages 10-13 were the worst.  Fourteen has become a noticeable transition year, so I have high hopes for 15 and beyond…  ;)

 

My best advice is to give him tools.  

Teach him to hang his life on his planner.  You'll have to experiment to decide if he needs a paper one or something he can put in an iPod or something.  Alarms are handy.  Not only do they keep my kid on time, but a quiet ding every 15 minutes can help drag him out of day-dreams.  Make a home-base and insist that he use it.  EVERYTHING comes back to home base.  Ours is his "spinner" (a Desk Apprentice from Staples). And so on.  

Kids like this need predictability to maintain their center.  

[Mom22ns]

I come from a "try other things but do not fear meds" perspective, though, and I have seen kids' lives changed overnight for the better when they began ADHD meds. 

 

For the record, I totally agree with this perspective.

[PeterPan]

I just wanted to toss in that in addition to testing, meds, etc. age WILL help.  

I'm raising this kid, too.  Ages 10-13 were the worst.  Fourteen has become a noticeable transition year, so I have high hopes for 15 and beyond…   ;)

 

My best advice is to give him tools.  

Teach him to hang his life on his planner.  You'll have to experiment to decide if he needs a paper one or something he can put in an iPod or something.  Alarms are handy.  Not only do they keep my kid on time, but a quiet ding every 15 minutes can help drag him out of day-dreams.  Make a home-base and insist that he use it.  EVERYTHING comes back to home base.  Ours is his "spinner" (a Desk Apprentice from Staples). And so on.  

Kids like this need predictability to maintain their center.  

Carrying on with Erin's organization thought, this book is interesting.  Organizing for Your Brain Type: Finding Your Own Solution to Managing Time, Paper, and Stuff  It finally explains why dd needs such a DIFFERENT organization method from me, wow...

[Mom22ns]

Carrying on with Erin's organization thought, this book is interesting.  Organizing for Your Brain Type: Finding Your Own Solution to Managing Time, Paper, and Stuff  It finally explains why dd needs such a DIFFERENT organization method from me, wow...

 

That looks really interesting! I requested it from the library.

 

 

[73349]

 He had a crazy, serious reaction to food dye as a little boy (age 5 or 6). I mostly avoid it but our church has had a ridiculous amount of candy distribution going on this year and just this past weekend I was discussing with DH that it has to STOP. It's awful for the kids and DS12 stashes it away and has a steady supply of it. He doesn't pig out at all (he is very willing to delay gratification) but it HAS been more a part of his diet these past few months than ever before (this candy issue started in the summer with some programs that were running). We are currently discussing how to handle the candy situation as I've had it!  It's also more sugar than I prefer my kids to have. It's no longer a "treat". 

 

I buy candy without food coloring and we trade. If you have a Whole Foods or an Earth Fare near you, nothing in those stores contains food coloring. If you need to order online, I like http://www.naturalcandystore.com/ . DS doesn't blink at handing his Halloween candy (etc.) over (either for Daddy to eat or just to throw out), because I have something more impressive on hand.

 

Some people report improvement when eliminating wheat and dairy from the diet. We tried it for 3 weeks this summer, and I found out that DS reacts to coconut (which I used to replace dairy) just like food coloring, and being without wheat did not seem to make any difference.

 

The OP could have been a description of me as a kid (quite possibly undiagnosed ADHD-Inattentive type), and DS sometimes struggles in these areas as well. Our current strategies, which are working fairly well although there's no quick fix, are these:

• No food coloring
• TV only between 4 and 6 PM, except videos required for Spanish
• Starting each school day with a few minutes of yard work, weather permitting
• Ironclad bedtime
• Intentionally drawing his attention to the clock and calendar, and telling him or asking him to estimate how long something should take
• Written checklists (e.g., what needs to be done before school in the morning)
• Daily quiet time
• Never let him get too hungry!
• Regular sensory opportunities: swinging, writing in salt/sand, playing with lentils, long baths, playing an instrument
• Focus opportunities: daily meditation (we're up to 3 minutes!), using an eye dropper (such as dropping vinegar onto a plate of baking soda)
• Outdoor/exercise time often (I'm considering getting him a trampoline for Christmas, the kind with a bar, because it's very rainy here).

But with a 12YO experiencing such intense difficulty, I'd also be bringing him in for a neuropsych eval. Ultimately, medication may be needed so he can concentrate and not always struggle with that.

[abrightmom]

I buy candy without food coloring and we trade. If you have a Whole Foods or an Earth Fare near you, nothing in those stores contains food coloring. If you need to order online, I like http://www.naturalcandystore.com/ . DS doesn't blink at handing his Halloween candy (etc.) over (either for Daddy to eat or just to throw out), because I have something more impressive on hand.

 

There have been so many wonderful, helpful suggestions from so many of you. Thanks so much for reaching out to encourage, challenge, and recommend. 

 

It didn't occur to me to trade the candy for dye free. We have Whole Foods in town =). That will absolutely work.

 

I talked with DH this morning about meeting with the ped. to discuss the ADHD/Inattention issue. Our pediatrician is fantastic and while he is an MD he is also very holistic in his practice. He deals especially with kiddos on the autism spectrum and those dealing with ADHD so I feel that we'd be in good hands in this area. While we already have well child appointments on the books for next month I hope that we can get in a bit earlier to specifically address what I shared here. There are some questionnaires on the pediatrician's website that we are to fill out specifically targeted to families seeking help with possible ADHD. 

[abrightmom]

I just wanted to toss in that in addition to testing, meds, etc. age WILL help.  

I'm raising this kid, too.  Ages 10-13 were the worst.  Fourteen has become a noticeable transition year, so I have high hopes for 15 and beyond…   ;)

 

My best advice is to give him tools.  

Teach him to hang his life on his planner.  You'll have to experiment to decide if he needs a paper one or something he can put in an iPod or something.  Alarms are handy.  Not only do they keep my kid on time, but a quiet ding every 15 minutes can help drag him out of day-dreams.  Make a home-base and insist that he use it.  EVERYTHING comes back to home base.  Ours is his "spinner" (a Desk Apprentice from Staples). And so on.  

Kids like this need predictability to maintain their center.  

Erin,

 

In case you come back by here do you mind sharing what alarm you use that has a quiet ding? Maybe it's an iPod or phone but our timers are jolting. The beeping works for a transition but not as a reminder to stay on task ... We have discussed using two timers for a school work block so that one can be the Reminder to Stay on Task Timer" but they are too loud. He can't use my phone :)  as it would prove WAY too distracting for him. 

[Erin]

Yep, its in his ipod. He just uses the "timer" that is part of the OS.

It counts down. He shuts it off, then restarts it.

 

And if your boy is not ready for personal devices during school time (we've been there too), you might look for something you can run through your desktop computer, instead. We used to use Howler, for example. It pulls whatever sound files you want, off your computer.

[Storygirl]

Just chiming back in with a couple of comments.

 

1) A reminder to discuss the possibility of sensory issues with your pediatrician as well. Sensory and ADHD often go hand in hand (DS10 has both), but sometimes the sensory issues present with symptoms that mimic ADHD. In other words, the true cause of the issues could be sensory and not ADHD. I'm just bringing this up again, because some things in your OP really sound sensory to me. I'd ask for a referral to an OT. (And, by the way, you do want a separate appointment just to talk about this -- don't just bring it up during the well visit).

 

2) As far as what we learned from our NP report that we couldn't figure out ourselves -- A LOT!  DS10 was diagnosed with many things in addition to the ADHD, and they were a surprise to us, even though they make sense now that we know them. We could never have figured these things out for ourselves. In fact, we had tried to figure him out on our own for ten years. Maybe your child isn't one of those quirky hard-to-fit-in-a-diagnosable-box kind of kids. But what we learned about DS shifted everything that we thought about his issues and behaviors, explained most of the quirky things that we had found difficult to understand, brought clarity to our confusion, and gave us a new trajectory for our thinking about him, his needs, and his future. I don't think it is an exaggeration to say that it was life changing. And there are so many layers of new knowledge and suggestions for things that will help him that we haven't even begun to unpack most of it, six months later.

 

For someone who ends up with an ADHD diagnosis and not much else, the NP report may not be so earth shaking. But it will still provide a ton of information that will be helpful along the journey of homeschooling and parenting your child. And when they are older, it may steer them toward a better understanding of themselves, which is priceless. It's no fun to wonder "why am I this way?"

 

You may end up deciding that a full NP report is not essential for getting appropriate help for your son. That's okay. Sometimes we can get enough help from other sources. But pursuing it is an option for you to consider. Our pediatrician thought it might not be worth the cost, but we went ahead, and we are glad that we did. It was more than worth it for us.

 

And, by the way, our report contained a couple of surprise learning disabilities. Even homeschooling moms can miss things sometimes, even though we work so closely with our children every day. Sometimes we miss things because we work so closely with them every day, and it takes someone else to see it.

[PeterPan]

 

For someone who ends up with an ADHD diagnosis and not much else, the NP report may not be so earth shaking. But it will still provide a ton of information that will be helpful along the journey of homeschooling and parenting your child. And when they are older, it may steer them toward a better understanding of themselves, which is priceless. It's no fun to wonder "why am I this way?"

It WAS earth shaking here, even without any LD diagnoses.  There were a number of things he found that were *just under* the level he would diagnose clinically but enough that we needed to be aware of them.  We learned a TON through the process.  Even if it's "just" ADHD, if you get a neuropsych who's known for giving helpful feedback, you're GOING to learn stuff that changes how you teach and interact.

[katilac]

Erin,

 

In case you come back by here do you mind sharing what alarm you use that has a quiet ding? Maybe it's an iPod or phone but our timers are jolting. The beeping works for a transition but not as a reminder to stay on task ... We have discussed using two timers for a school work block so that one can be the Reminder to Stay on Task Timer" but they are too loud. He can't use my phone :)  as it would prove WAY too distracting for him. 

 

Do you have an educational store near you?  Or teacher supply store? They usually have quite a few different types of timers, often with different sounds to choose from. Some of them, like the stop light version, have a visual component as well. 

 

There's also generally quite a few timers at Walmart, Target, etc. Check both the kitchen section and the clock section. You likely won't be able to hear the sound before buying, but they are cheap.