Gracepoint (and Broadchurch) *Spoilers*

[SquirrellyMama]

Aw shoot. I'm really just kidding. The tone of this thread has been very pro-BC and I was just teasing because of that.

 

Sorry.

 

I know, you did put 3 smiley faces :tongue_smilie: I should say this thread has reminded me of my teacher. So much hate for Gracepointe and those who liked it.

 

I should have added some smiley faces to my response too.

 

Here is something I don't understand about BC. Tom acts suspiciously the entire time, but in the end he has no knowledge of what happened.  Why was he deleting messags and destroying his hard drive? I understand that in GP since he ended up actually killing Danny.

 

Kelly

 

[SquirrellyMama]

***SPOILERS***

 

I didn't like that at all. I mean... are we really supposed to believe that out of nowhere, after years of happy marriage and no issues, he suddenly became a pedo? It just perpetuates this idea that any man is dangerous. I just didn't believe it narratively. I could have believed he pulled the wool over Ellie's eyes, but the way this was told, there was no wool to pull. Just one day he snapped and changed. It's hard to disagree with that presentation because how do you argue with it, but it doesn't feel believable. I liked that they left a little ambiguity with what was going to happen next, but overall... no.

 

I liked Anna Gunn though. There's not enough love for Anna Gunn in the world in general.

 

But this is the story line from BC and GP. There is nothing leading up to Joe in BC becoming a pedophile. In both shows they were supposedly happily married until one day he snaps.

 

Did I miss something in BC?

 

Kelly

[SquirrellyMama]

Since I prefer American comedies (usually reruns of old shows) and many British shows, I turned to DH after watching Gp epi 3 and asked, "Are all American dramas this bad?" The witer a nd witing were so good for BC! Just who messed up this version?

 

I guess I'm not seeing much of a difference in the two shows. They were almost word for word the same script. Although GP did have two extra episodes so there was obviously some added.  I've watched both British and American dramas and haven't thought one was better than the other. Maybe I'm watching the wrong shows.

 

Kelly

[Angie in VA]

I should say this thread has reminded me of my teacher. So much hate for Gracepointe and those who liked it.

 

Here is something I don't understand about BC. Tom acts suspiciously the entire time, but in the end he has no knowledge of what happened.  Why was he deleting messags and destroying his hard drive? I understand that in GP since he ended up actually killing Danny.

 

Kelly

 

 

 

First off, I didn't like GP, but I meant no dislike towards those who watch GP. Please accept my apologies, Kelly, and anyone I may have offended by my posts. I just don't get why it was remade, and w/o many changes? 

 

As for Tom in BC, he was mad at Danny b/c Danny told him he had a new friend (it was Joe, Tom's dad). Danny had pulled away from Tom and Tom was hurt.

 

 

I guess I'm not seeing much of a difference in the two shows. They were almost word for word the same script. Although GP did have two extra episodes so there was obviously some added.  I've watched both British and American dramas and haven't thought one was better than the other. Maybe I'm watching the wrong shows.

 

Kelly

 

Yes, they were practically the same script, but, well, see what High Heels said about in this thread anvils. Also I can't remember who said they seemed to cast look-alikes for some (not all!) roles, but I agree. Why go through the trouble? Just bleep out the bad words and air ir here. Weird. 

 

 

[SquirrellyMama]

I know he was mad at Danny, but why destroy anything? It wouldn't get him in trouble.

 

I also agree it didn't have to be remade. It was excellent as is. And, anything I didn't like can be forgiven because I love David Tennant's Scottish accent.

[happi duck]

My take on BC Tom was that he felt guilty that he'd been mad at Danny. Also everyone was treating him as the grieving best friend and putting him in that role. I felt like he felt pressure to hide their fight so he could fulfill that role for the sake of everyone.

 

Eta: I'm thinking of destroying the laptop. The initial deleting seemed like the kind of rash "oh no!" false guilt one has when one sees a police car behind...you haven't done anything wrong but you think "was I speeding?" Etc.

Just my two cents!

[elegantlion]

i just finished Broadchurch. I don't think I'll watch Gracepoint, I'll need a few days to recover from BC anyway. Disturbing and sad, yet I kept clicking next episode on Netflix. The cinematography was beautiful. 

[Angie in VA]

i just finished Broadchurch. I don't think I'll watch Gracepoint, I'll need a few days to recover from BC anyway. Disturbing and sad, yet I kept clicking next episode on Netflix. The cinematography was beautiful.

Yeah, it really took a lot out of me. It was weeks before I watched anything, and then it was old sitcoms like Frasier.

 

You might want some time between season 1 and season 2 which starts January 5, I think.

[elegantlion]

Yeah, it really took a lot out of me. It was weeks before I watched anything, and then it was old sitcoms like Frasier.

 

You might want some time between season 1 and season 2 which starts January 5, I think.

 

I may go back to Gilmore Girls for a while. 

[SquirrellyMama]

Broachchurch took a lot out of me also. I was extremely sad and couldn't sleep. I didn't feel that way after Gracepoint. Some would say that makes BC better, but I prefer not to feel that depressed after watching a show.

 

Kelly

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I went to Doctor Who after Broadchurch.. Plenty of Who...

[elegantlion]

I think series 2 of Broadchurch should begin with finding a lost English teenager on the beach. She won't know how she got there, has a bit of an attitude, can't understand anyone because she's not sure they are speaking English, and can only converse with DI Hardy by quoting Shakespeare.  ;)

 

Series 3 could begin by finding a weeping Rose on the beach. DI Hardy can't understand why she claims to be in love with him, but finally remembers when she heals his heart issue. He wasn't ill, just suffering from one of his hearts being broken. 

[BarbecueMom]

Series 3 could begin by finding a weeping Rose on the beach. DI Hardy can't understand why she claims to be in love with him, but finally remembers when she heals his heart issue. He wasn't ill, just suffering from one of his hearts being broken.

The plot of every BC/DW crossover fanfic ever. Or the one where Hardy finds a watch in his pocket with some weird circular language inscribed on it. He also keeps a diary of his alien dreams.

 

Just saw a commercial on BBC America for Broadchurch. March 4th!

[Angie in VA]

The plot of every BC/DW crossover fanfic ever. Or the one where Hardy finds a watch in his pocket with some weird circular language inscribed on it. He also keeps a diary of his alien dreams.

 

Just saw a commercial on BBC America for Broadchurch. March 4th!

 

Huh. Waiting till March when it airs here in the states to watch season 2. Interesting concept. 

 

.  ;)

[BarbecueMom]

Huh. Waiting till it airs here in the states to watch season 2. Interesting concept. ;)

LOL, I didn't wait the first time around. But now I don't have a working PC, just the phone and Kindle, so I'm sort of stuck waiting.

[Liz CA]

Wait..this is a remake of Broadchurch (which I watched) with David Tennant in the remake? So, for those who have a hard time understanding Brits, will he be speaking in an American accent? :)  :) ?

[Angie in VA]

Wait..this is a remake of Broadchurch (which I watched) with David Tennant in the remake? So, for those who have a hard time understanding Brits, will he be speaking in an American accent? :)  :) ?

 

Yes, Gracepoint was the American remake of season 1 of Broadchurch. David Tennant was in both and yes, he had an American accent in GP, but I think if you stick w/ him, you'll get used the accent. I mean, ITA w/ BarbecueMom about that accent.

 

Mercifully, there will not be a 2nd season of GP.

 

Broadchurch's 2nd season starts Jan. 5 in the UK and will be broadcast here (in the states) on BBC America in March (for those who can wait that long to watch it). 

[Angie in VA]

LOL, I didn't wait the first time around. But now I don't have a working PC, just the phone and Kindle, so I'm sort of stuck waiting.

 

 

You poor thing. Want to come over and watch w/ me?

 

Actually, that could be problematic. I loved watching season 1 in one fell swoop, well, spread out over a few days. I'm not used to waiting an entire week to see the next episode of BC.

[Farrar]

Okay, I finally got around to watching Broadchurch... and I have no idea what anyone was on about it being *so* much better. There were some things I thought were better - a little more nuance to some of the characters and the plot was a little tighter - but there were a few things in the American version that I thought were better, like Nick Nolte's performance. And, honestly, I still kind of like Anna Gunn's performance slightly better. I'm sure everyone will hate on me for that sentiment. Plus, the moral was the same. And I thought that was wrong, even if the mood and writing of the show as a whole were excellent, I don't really agree with the conclusions that anyone can "suddenly" snap and become a pedo. I think that's a bit rubbish and I was super disappointed by that element since I had so hoped it would turn out more differently in Broadchurch.

 

Ah well. I'll be curious to see season two anyway...

[happi duck]

I'm guessing that seeing one or the other first has an effect.

 

I saw BC first and to me when I watched GP everything felt "wrong". There was even the " wrong" voice coming out of DI Hardy!

 

I'm sure it affected my view of GP.

[Mom in High Heels]

Okay, I finally got around to watching Broadchurch... and I have no idea what anyone was on about it being *so* much better. There were some things I thought were better - a little more nuance to some of the characters and the plot was a little tighter - but there were a few things in the American version that I thought were better, like Nick Nolte's performance. And, honestly, I still kind of like Anna Gunn's performance slightly better. I'm sure everyone will hate on me for that sentiment. Plus, the moral was the same. And I thought that was wrong, even if the mood and writing of the show as a whole were excellent, I don't really agree with the conclusions that anyone can "suddenly" snap and become a pedo. I think that's a bit rubbish and I was super disappointed by that element since I had so hoped it would turn out more differently in Broadchurch.

 

Ah well. I'll be curious to see season two anyway...

 

Okay, glad I'm not the only one!  I didn't even watch all of BC, because there were parts that were pretty much word for word, and I was thinking "I just watched this, I don't want to see it all again."  I liked the ending better, as I wasn't thrilled with the killer in GP, but I agree about the becoming a pedo all of a sudden.  There was just nothing, IMO, to even suggest it.  I did like hearing DT with an accent though.  ;)

[go_go_gadget]

Not a comparison between the two, but I watched Broadchurch twice and never got the impression that Joe ''snapped'' and became a pedophile. I assumed he always had been, and had just recently begun losing the battle against his urges, which seems perfectly plausible to me. 

[BarbecueMom]

Not a comparison between the two, but I watched Broadchurch twice and never got the impression that Joe ''snapped'' and became a pedophile. I assumed he always had been, and had just recently begun losing the battle against his urges, which seems perfectly plausible to me.

Right, and in the dinner scene, they talked about how Joe wasn't from Broadchurch. His past wouldn't have been as well known as those who had lived there their whole lives.

 

ETA: that's if I'm remembering correctly. Need to rewatch soon.

[Mom in High Heels]

Not a comparison between the two, but I watched Broadchurch twice and never got the impression that Joe ''snapped'' and became a pedophile. I assumed he always had been, and had just recently begun losing the battle against his urges, which seems perfectly plausible to me. 

 

Still, there just didn't seem to be any sort of clues IMO.  There should have been some sort of hint, because when I got to the end, I was like WTF?

[BarbecueMom]

Still, there just didn't seem to be any sort of clues IMO. There should have been some sort of hint, because when I got to the end, I was like WTF?

I think this was because they kept even the cast in the dark about who was the killer until the 7th episode filming. It was a questionable directing choice, because then there weren't any nuances from acting choices to pick up on.

[elegantlion]

Still, there just didn't seem to be any sort of clues IMO.  There should have been some sort of hint, because when I got to the end, I was like WTF?

 

I think it was also POV thing. The show unfolded clues very carefully, like about Hardy's illness. Even though we saw scenes with other characters, it seemed the reveal was almost more first person. That's not coming out how I mean to say, I guess like a limited third person POV in a novel. You just don't see everything.

 

 Think about how many real life stories end up with friends and neighbors saying they never had a clue about this person's issue. 

 

Did it mention why left emergency services? I don't remember. 

[Laura Corin]

I think this was because they kept even the cast in the dark about who was the killer until the 7th episode filming. It was a questionable directing choice, because then there weren't any nuances from acting choices to pick up on.

 

I agree.  I don't think it was fair on either the actors or the audience to do that.  I enjoyed the show, but I think this was a flaw.

 

I have the second series set up to record next week.

 

L

[Farrar]

I did notice that in BC there were a few more Joe looking sort of vaguely suspicious shots, but still. Just nothing. Even if his "past" had something... how? I mean, do we really believe that there are people who have happy, heterosexual marriages for at least a dozen years who one day snap and start being attracted to young boys? Because I don't really. If there had been more information to set that up, maybe. But there isn't. There specifically isn't.

 

I think the sequence about Tom going missing for a day in GP made Joe and Elly's relationship so much more real and genuine and his character so much more likable and sympathetic that it was a worse problem in GP than BC. In BC, he's almost a nobody.

 

In terms of the performances that I think were really, really good - like Elly and Beth and some of the others, I think it is a bit down to which you saw first. I liked Anna Gunn, but I saw her version first. Olivia Coleman was excellent too. Just slightly different take.

[Angie in VA]

I think the clues mentioned in this article are weak, but check this out:

 

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/09/25/broadchurch-killer-finale/

[Farrar]

I think the clues mentioned in this article are weak, but check this out:

 

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/09/25/broadchurch-killer-finale/

 

Yeah, many those clues make narrative sense that Joe would be the killer. But they don't make actual sense. Ellie questioning how Susan Wright couldn't have known that her husband was abusing their kids is not a reason that her own husband is a killer. That's just nonsense. I mean, yes, in terms of plot and foreshadowing, sure. But not in terms of actually implying anything. I mean, if that was a real event, thousands of women in happy marriages would be thinking the same thing. It doesn't *lead* to their husbands becoming abusers.

 

I mean, I get why he's the killer for the moral of the story and the setup of the narrative. I just vehemently disagreed with the moral. Or, at least, how it was presented. At one point, DI Hardy says that anyone is capable of the murder given the right circumstances. I totally, completely can get behind that. Extreme circumstances can lead to extreme behavior. Except that in this case, Joe created the situation himself. And the show doesn't ever explore how he really got into that extreme situation. We're made to believe it just happened. That's the piece I can't buy.

[go_go_gadget]

I still don't see anything to suggest that Joe spontaneously developed pedophilic urges. It's entirely reasonable, IMO, to suppose that he'd had the urges all along, but it was only when the incident between Danny and Mark happened to push Danny to search for paternal affection in Joe that the urges got to be too much for Joe to hold back anymore. Like an addict who goes along okay most of the time but succumbs when their vice presents itself. People don't become addicts (or pedophiles) in one night, but they can be sober for decades and fall off the wagon in one night. In Joe's case, though, it happened over a matter of months (from the incident with Mark to Danny's death). 

 

I don't think it's too far-fetched to imagine Ellie had no inkling, either. Just like the kid who shot up his fellow students (including a cousin or two) in Washington, who everyone said was such a nice, happy, popular kid. I'm sure it's easy to look back in hindsight and find the signs, but that's because we're looking for them. Most people aren't constantly searching for evidence that their spouse is secretly a pedophile.

[Farrar]

The show specifically states that Joe had never had a relationship or even an attraction to a young boy before. And while it could be a lie, I think it's purposefully presented as if it's true because that fits the "anyone could do it and there's no way to know" moral of the show.

 

Except that does not jibe with my understanding of what pedophilia is actually like. In the wake of the Sandusky case, there were a lot of articles about how pedophilia works, how pedophiles get away with it, etc. etc. As I understand it, for someone to suddenly, after years of a calm, outwardly happy - even to their partner - marriage to become a pedophile in their 40's? Um, I don't think that's a thing. And I dislike it as a moral because I think it plays on our anti-male, keep the children inside sort of fears. Plus, I think it's lazy. It's too easy. Random neighbor pedo did it. I mean, it's not as lazy as if that red herring drifter had done it, but still.

[Angie in VA]

The show specifically states that Joe had never had a relationship or even an attraction to a young boy before. And while it could be a lie, I think it's purposefully presented as if it's true because that fits the "anyone could do it and there's no way to know" moral of the show.

 

Except that does not jibe with my understanding of what pedophilia is actually like. In the wake of the Sandusky case, there were a lot of articles about how pedophilia works, how pedophiles get away with it, etc. etc. As I understand it, for someone to suddenly, after years of a calm, outwardly happy - even to their partner - marriage to become a pedophile in their 40's? Um, I don't think that's a thing. And I dislike it as a moral because I think it plays on our anti-male, keep the children inside sort of fears. Plus, I think it's lazy. It's too easy. Random neighbor pedo did it. I mean, it's not as lazy as if that red herring drifter had done it, but still.

 

I agree w/ you. I didn't really notice Joe. I had to go back and re-watch some of his scenes. I don't buy the suddenly becoming a pedophile either, but I looked at it as he was a SAHF and felt unimportant till Mark and Danny had a falling out and then Danny came to him. I figured that made him feel important and special, and that eventually Joe became obsessed w/ Danny. 

 

I'm in for season 2. I'm glad Mark & Beth will be in season 2. 

[Farrar]

The fact that he was a SAHD just made it worse for me. As if SAHD's don't take enough crap in society.

[Tammyla]

We just finished Gracepoint last night a few weeks after watching Broadchurch.

 

I'm still not sure how I feel about it.

 

Maybe if I read through the thread, I'll be able to process it and come up with something.  (I was avoiding the thread so as not to spoil it.)

[SquirrellyMama]

What will the 2nd season of BC be like? Another murder? I understand that murders can happen in small towns.  We had one in our town a few years ago, but that has been the only one in 15 years. I'm a little skeptical of a small town with numerous murders.

 

Kelly

[Laura Corin]

What will the 2nd season of BC be like? Another murder? I understand that murders can happen in small towns.  We had one in our town a few years ago, but that has been the only one in 15 years. I'm a little skeptical of a small town with numerous murders.

 

Kelly

 

Unless there are 100,000 people in the town, it seems unlikely on the face of it (our murder rate is 1 per 100,000 per year).  The town of Bridport, which includes West Bay where Broadchurch is filmed, has a population under 14,000.

 

However: there's nothing to stop one town having two murders in two years and many others having none at all.....  The carnage seen in Oxford over the course of Endeavour, Morse and Lewis must be a serious blip in the statistics, for example.  It's a wonder parents still send their children to university there.

 

L

[go_go_gadget]

Oh, that's never stopped British crime dramas before. According to Inspector Morse and its derivatives, Oxford would rival Detroit for murder rates by capita.

[Joules]

What will the 2nd season of BC be like? Another murder? I understand that murders can happen in small towns.  We had one in our town a few years ago, but that has been the only one in 15 years. I'm a little skeptical of a small town with numerous murders.

 

Kelly

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Cabot Cove was the murder capital of the U.S. for quite a while there :-)

 

But I'm still looking forward to what they do with the second season.  I've only seen Broadchurch.  I've never liked the American remakes of any shows I've tried.  I could see it eons ago when we couldn't watch the originals, but now why bother with another version?  Can people just not understand the accent?  If someone is going to spend money to make a new show, why not give us something original?!?

 

Though it was a sad story, I really loved BC.  It was cinematically beautiful, not just the scenery, but just the depictions of emotions in people.  It all seemed so real.  I didn't guess the ending, but I didn't dislike it.  I think it makes the point that it is not always the priest or the scout leader that everyone is always so suspicious of.  Sometimes it is someone that you would never suspect.  I do like mysteries that lay out clues that I can figure out, but somehow I was OK with there being none here.  Maybe I was just so wowed with the beauty ;-)