EmmaNZ Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I'm so sad and angry. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/thousands-flee-israeli-shelling-east-gaza-201472054222475214.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 It is tragic, and horrible, and devastating. The blood shed over that small piece of land is disgusting. It must end but I have no idea how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kewb Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 No, we may not discuss the elephant in the room. This article does not discuss the fact that Israel notifies in advance that they will be bombing/attacking and tells civillians to leave. Your article does not discuss the rockets that Hamas has been firing into Israel are responsible for the lack of electricity. This article leaves out the summer camps of hate these children attend. This article leaves out that Hamas uses their own people as shields by placing rockets in schools. This article is designed to elicit emotion and anti-semitism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I don't think the topic can be discussed without getting political. It is an awful situation. Sad for all involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 No, we may not discuss the elephant in the room. This article does not discuss the fact that Israel notifies in advance that they will be bombing/attacking and tells civillians to leave. Your article does not discuss the rockets that Hamas has been firing into Israel are responsible for the lack of electricity. This article leaves out the summer camps of hate these children attend. This article leaves out that Hamas uses their own people as shields by placing rockets in schools. This article is designed to elicit emotion and anti-semitism. Oh, but it has a picture with an injured child, so obviously Israel must be the one in the wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 There are Jews, Christians, and Muslims that want peace. I think they are in the majority, actually. I think people forget that sometimes. Having been there and seen a LOT first-hand, I am not as quick to judge anyone there. It is a very difficult situation, and I pray for a quick end to ALL the violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 There are Jews, Christians, and Muslims that want peace. I think they are in the majority, actually. I think people forget that sometimes. Sadly, it's the minorities that make the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Sadly, it's the minorities that make the media. No one here seems to talk about the Palestinian Christian minority. Esp Christians. That irks me. But I'm out--I can't really talk about what I've seen in Israel/West Bank without writing massive posts no one wants to read and espousing opinions no one wants to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 That article only paints one side of the picture. Of course the whole situation is sad and disturbing but posting that article in order to start a discussion is starting it way too unbalanced to make it worth discussing. Read some articles that actually discuss the situation as a whole and not one meant to villianize one side and draw sympathy for the other exclusively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I'm guessing there is no way this thread ends well. However, before it is closed I would just like to say that just because people support Israel's right to exist and support the right to a homeland for the Jewish people, does not mean we have to support every single action Israel takes. And just because we don't support what Israel is doing now, doesn't mean we support the tactics of Hamas that led to this miserable situation. This is a not a black and white situation. There is horror and terror and too many dead children on both sides for either side to claim the moral superiority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kewb Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 The article is biased. It leaves out quite a few things to elicit the response it is looking for. To post it with the header "can we talk about the elephant in the elephant room" is disgenuos. There are many strong feelings about what is going on and a lot of bias amd emotion. This is not the place for the discussion. There are members of all faiths and beliefs on this board and this thread is bound to hurt someone. The more I think about this article the more irritated I become. There is no mention of the 34 terror tunnels IDF located leading from Gaza into Israel that have now been shut down. No mention of the civillian homes rigged with explosives. No mention of the poor donkey loaded with explosives that IDF had to shoot and kill to force detonation. Just mention of Israel bombing Gaza. Sure, no bias in the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 It's very sad. I have different friends who live over there on different 'sides' of the situation. They all have a side. They're all educated, intelligent people. They're all hurting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 The people of Gaza can not flee so telling them that they will be attacked isn't super helpful. Neither side is innocent of crimes against humanity here but I do not support Israel's latest attacks in any way. Hamas leaders are being advised ahead of time where the strikes will take place. Instead of having people leave, they have people come. They are the ones firing rockets into Israel, which is currently defending itself. Hamas WANTS fatalities in an attempt to garner international support (which obviously is working on you). If they stop firing, Israel stops defending. Period. Israel is NOT attacking. Israel is defending. In the past week, Hamas has fired 1600 rockets into Israel. Israel uses rockets to defend its people. Hamas uses people to defend its rockets. Your sympathies in this current situation are misguided, to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chava_Raizel Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 This is a rather well done opinion piece which seeks balance. The trouble is balance isnt what people are after. They want black and white cow boy hats and their side to annihilate the other. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/20/opinion/sunday/nicholas-kristof-whos-right-and-wrong-in-the-middle-east.html?ref=opinion No. The Israelies do not want to annihilate anyone. They want peace. But when Hamas is firing rockets at them, and saying that they want to wipe Israel and every single Jew living there off the map, then yes, they have a right to defend themselves. If Israel called a ceasefire today, and said they would no longer fight, they would immediately be destroyed. If Hamas declared a ceasefire and said they would no longer fight, there would be peace. It's a pretty major difference. If Mexico started firing rockets into Texas and sending in suicide bombers, would you expect our country to sit back and take it? Would we be right to defend our people? I don't understand the one-sidedness of the news reports I've been seeing. It's as if Israel just decided on a whim to bomb Gaza with no provocation whatsoever. They completely ignore the fact that Israel was attacked first, by terrorists who use their own civilians as sheilds. It's a horrible situation all the way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 No one is sympathetic to the terrorists. People are sympathetic to the children and the families being destroyed on both sides. But somehow a showing of sympathy is not allowed and is made out to be support for Hamas and their tactics. Pretty sure very few people would support the use of human shields. Can't we feel terrible when those human shields - women, children, men, civilians, are killed? Does sympathy for those innocents depend on "who started it?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (I)f you read that article and claim it was designed to villainize you need to check your own bias. I suspect the fact that it was Al Jazeera (actually a well respected source) probably enflamed personal biases. My sentiments exactly. (J)ust because people support Israel's right to exist and support the right to a homeland for the Jewish people, does not mean we have to support every single action Israel takes. And just because we don't support what Israel is doing now, doesn't mean we support the tactics of Hamas that led to this miserable situation. This is a not a black and white situation. There is horror and terror and too many dead children on both sides for either side to claim the moral superiority. Spot on. Then, too, there's the fact that if you don't support a "Jewish homeland" you are cast in the role as anti-Semitic villain. The West's creation of a nation in order to appease our own guilt is the number one white elephant. Definitely can't go there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 That article is not biased. It reports clearly and concisely the facts of a situation. No one article can paint a full picture of the whole history of the conflct but if you read that article and claim it was designed to villainize you need to check your own bias. I suspect the fact that it was Al Jazeera (actually a well respected source) probably enflamed personal biases. For me there is no bias in terms of sides or reporters. I simply believe that the article was clearly trying to provoke a negative view on one side and gain sympathy for the other side in a situation that is so incredibly tense and complicated. Israel may be in the wrong in that current issue but Hamas is painted as this innocent group because the article ignores to thoroughly mention why Israel would make an attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 That article is not biased. It reports clearly and concisely the facts of a situation. No one article can paint a full picture of the whole history of the conflct but if you read that article and claim it was designed to villainize you need to check your own bias. I suspect the fact that it was Al Jazeera (actually a well respected source) probably enflamed personal biases. Isn't Al Jazeera connected with the ruling family of Qatar? This is an interesting article about which countries are opposing Egypt's attempt to bring peace. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/19/split-between-egypt-and-hamas-plagues-efforts-to-bring-cease-fire-in-gaza/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 No one is sympathetic to the terrorists. People are sympathetic to the children and the families being destroyed on both sides. But somehow a showing of sympathy is not allowed and is made out to be support for Hamas and their tactics. Pretty sure very few people would support the use of human shields. Can't we feel terrible when those human shields - women, children, men, civilians, are killed? Does sympathy for those innocents depend on "who started it?" Of course we can feel terrible about it but the OP posted an article painting only one side of the situation and mentioned it as the white elephant. What are they referring to? The fact that civilians are dying or the fact that cilivians are dying and the article pointing all the blame on Israel? I don't support either side in this situation but I also don't like news articles that are written to insight anger towards one side over the other but sadly its hard to find balanced reporting on such a hot topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 To paraphrase Golda Meir: "Peace will come when Hamas will love its children more than it hates us." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Given the history, the complexity, the emotion, the passion with which it is felt, the international community has yet to come up with a lasting solution. I doubt that one reporter writing one article can ever, ever, paint all the sides of the situation. So we can agree that one article (ANY one article) on the situation will be biased and incomplete. I am not sure that is the point however. Pretty sure the OP was referring to the elephant in the room being what is happening to the civilians being used as human shields. THAT is what people are routinely prevented from talking about. Everyone tip toes around it because none of us want to be seen as anti-Israel. The fact that those have been conflated is a huge part of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 No, we can not agree that any one article will be biased and incomplete. We can agree that no one story will tell the whole story. But that doesn't mean it is inherently biased or incomplete. I hope those who replied to my posts will read the op ed I posted bc in it, the author expressly deals with several of the common assertions and those seen on this thread. I agree with the op ed you posted but that is not what the original post was about. The OP has an article only about Israel's wrong doings in a thread labeled the white elephant in the room. That gives the impression that the original poster is faulting Israel in the situation and anta's to discuss it as if we all know it but aren't talking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Perhaps the OP posting the article IS attempting to provide balance? Access to Israeli-sided news reports is plentiful in my neck of the woods. You don't have to make an effort to hear or understand that side of the story. You do have to dig a bit to get your brain around the opposing view. Perhaps the "elephant" is that there is righteous indignation on both sides and it's not as simple as saying one side is so reasonable and the other is hateful savages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Oh, but it has a picture with an injured child, so obviously Israel must be the one in the wrong. you forgot your sarc tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatherwith4 Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 No good can come of any country that treats a portion of its people as second class citizens. That's where I'll stop, because tho I'd like to tell some of you what I think , I've not got the energy to care, and that's honesty, not snark:) (Dh had a heart attack Monday and quadruple bypass Wednesday, so I haven't got much energy for anything .) :grouphug: Sorry to hear that. I hope his recovery is going well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I read this the other day. This thread reminded me of it. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/teachingnonviolentatonement/2014/07/battling-to-the-end-in-israel-palestine/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaLisa Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 No good can come of any country that treats a portion of its people as second class citizens. That's where I'll stop, because tho I'd like to tell some of you what I think , I've not got the energy to care, and that's honesty, not snark:) (Dh had a heart attack Monday and quadruple bypass Wednesday, so I haven't got much energy for anything .) :grouphug: Hoping for a full and smooth recovery. Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 No good can come of any country that treats a portion of its people as second class citizens. That's where I'll stop, because tho I'd like to tell some of you what I think , I've not got the energy to care, and that's honesty, not snark:) (Dh had a heart attack Monday and quadruple bypass Wednesday, so I haven't got much energy for anything .) Dot, I'm so sorry to hear about your husband!!! :( You must be so exhausted and worried. I hope he makes a complete recovery. :grouphug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I'm sure the moderators will be here soon to remind everyone of the forum rule about "no political threads." Personally, I think that's a good thing, because I can't imagine that this discussion will turn out well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Did someone say my name? Take it to PM... Moderator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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