Why is our day so long? (Feedback on Schedule)

[mamiof5]

Just my 2 cents....since I also feel that we do a lot of language arts over here.  I have a K, 2nd and 3rd grader, and we do a lot of LA.... I do like to have my bases covered, so we do grammar, vocab, spelling, handwriting and I can't remember what else.  Not sure if you take summer break or school year round....but what about focusing during the summer just in reading?  It does make a world of a difference (at least for me) when the kids are strong readers.  A lot of people have a love/hate relationship with :How to teach your child to read in 100 lessons".  I hated it at times.... actually, if I remember right, with all the kids I started it and at about lesson 6-7 had to drop it and come back to it later (it was too challenging for them? for some reason it just didn't work the first time around).  Anyway, we did eventually finish it with each child and they are very strong readers.  My 6 yr old son just finished it, and it has been great to watch his reading "emerging".  Whatever reading program you use, my point is that it might make it easier for you to focus in reading for a while and if that improves it could benefit you? 

[mmpmelmack]

Changing my reply a bit due to some of your responses. Since cursive is something they have asked for I would would add it to your enrichment schedule. Also since you don't want to read during meals, I would add a circle time and do all reading aloud then, alternate history and science and bible and lit two each day. Or do all if the kids will sit for it, narrations can be done at this time as well.

 

 

P.S. I should tell you that we used to know each other in real life. I am/ was a member of the apvillage, I moved to Texas five years ago. If you can't place who I am let me know!

[Aloha2U]

I talk to other homeschoolers (and read posts on this forum) where people say they can finish up 2nd grade in 2.5 hours.  I am wondering how they do that?!  

Am I scheduling too much?  If so, what can I cut?

Are my curricula choices making my day seem so long?  If so, what should I change?  (Right now I am using something separate for grammar, writing, reading, spelling, and handwriting!)  I am hesitant to make changes to our curricula because a) I want to avoid gaps, and B)  I don't want to spend additional money since I already purchased stuff.

 

FYI...

I have a 7.5 year old, a 6 year old, and a baby who is nearly walking.   My 7.5 year old and 6 year old are working together in most subjects.  My #1 priority subject this year is getting my two older children reading at grade level and fluently.  Right now we are using AAR, but it just seems to be taking forever to get them reading.  I feel like they are behind many children their age in reading despite daily, consistent work in the subject. 

 

On an IDEAL day my schedule looks like this.  We almost always fall behind this ideal schedule and school can sometimes take until 4PM if we get side tracked, take too long on reading/math, take too long switching gears between subjects (putting away materials, giving the baby attention, etc.)

 

8:00AM*-Cursive Handwriting

8:30AM-Math (Singapore 2A)

9:00AM-Reading with first child (AAR 2) (Other child has snack, plays with baby)

9:30AM-Reading with second child (AAR 2) (Other child has snack, plays with baby)

10:00AM-Grammar (finishing FLL 1 then 2)

10:30AM-Spelling (AAS 2)

11:00AM-History (2 days), Science (2 days), Geography (1 day)

11:30AM-Writing (Copywork, Dictation, Narration using WWE as a guide)

12:00AM-Make Lunch, Eat, Clean Up Kitchen/Family Room

1:00PM-Bible (Bible study for all ages)

1:30PM-Read Aloud (Sonlight list)***

2:00PM-Enrichment Subjects (Artist Study, Music Appreciations, Nature Study, etc.) 

2:30PM-Finished

 

*NOTE 1:  Our first problem starts at 8AM typically.  I am trying to start earlier so we can finish earlier.  BUT On some days my husband doesn't leave for work until 8:30 which gives us a late start.  OR, a kid will dawdle with getting dressed, finishing breakfast, etc.   So we realistically probably start our day at 8:30AM a lot of the time. 

 

**NOTE 2:  I know FLL doesn't take a full 30 minutes, but sometimes we go a little longer in reading.  (I let the kids finish the story they are reading or something.)  OR, we lose time switching between subjects, so scheduling a full 30 minute block helps us not to get too far off track. 

 

***NOTE 3:  I've tried moving read alouds to before bed several times.  The problem is, my DH usually does bed time with the older kids while I get the baby to sleep.  And read alouds just don't get accomplished when he is doing bed time.  (He has good intentions, but if I want them to happen I have realized I need to fit them into our day.) 

 

Honestly, considering the ages of your dc, what you've explained and listed appears to be a normal homeschooling day to me, as well as a normal homeschooling lifestyle in general—interruptions, transitions, and *life* take time. Be realistic about how long it takes to accomplish your goals—including start and end times—and don't be ashamed/afraid to admit it. I commend you for wanting to cover all bases, thoroughly and well. 

 

Just my two cents — Don't change what is working for you and your dc. I think it unrealistic to complete a study day for a second grader in 2.5 hours, especially if you're classically educating. Also, I wouldn't drop spelling, grammar, or writing, but perhaps just arrange a few things in order to streamline or make your day a bit more fluid during transitions, and continue working on phonics over the summer.  

 

  8:30 *Bible

  9:00 *Math

  9:30 *Handwriting

10:00 *Spelling

10:30 *Grammar

11:00 *Writing

11:30 *Read with first child

12:00  Lunch

  1:00 *Read with second child

  1:30  *History / Geography / Science

  2:00  Enrichment

  2:30 *Read aloud

 

Another variation could be to do the core* studies on days 1-4 (whatever days of the week they fall on for you); and then do geography, science, and enrichments on day 5, as well as reading/read alouds.

 

We have a saying over here that has stuck with us and comes up often: "Anyone can not do it." ~ Robin from The Door in the Wall by Marguerite de Angeli

[Haiku]

  8:30 *Bible

  9:00 *Math

  9:30 *Handwriting

10:00 *Spelling

10:30 *Grammar

11:00 *Writing

11:30 *Read with first child

12:00  Lunch

  1:00 *Read with second child

 

In this schedule, the kids' breaks all come in a big lump. I find that I have had better success scheduling breaks in at fairly regular intervals (although now that my kids are 11 and 12, they can work in a fairly sustained manner for a few hours and they take breaks whenever they feel it necessary). When my kids were the OP's kids' ages, I made sure we scheduled in a break every hour or so. Homeschooling is not like sitting in a classroom in that you don't get the chance to mentally check out when necessary or when you've completed your work and are waiting for the class to move on. When being tutored, you have to be "on" all the time, and for 6 and 7 year olds, I wouldn't expect them to be able to sustain concentration for three hours and still produce their best work.

 

It's true that anyone can not do it, but it's also true that homeschoolers can do it more efficiently. Imo, a homeschooled kid's day (at that age) should not be as long as a public school day.

[SarahW]

I'd bet you're spending a lot of time on transitions, especially with 3 kids, one of whom is an active baby.  

 

This is what I do, and your mileage may vary.

 

Other than oral reading, my DD and I knock it out in about an hour. I have the books stacked on the dining room table in the order I want to use them--first one on top. Everything is prepped ahead of time (which can, to be fair, take me up to an hour). I sit with the baby (who is nursing or otherwise quiet) in my lap, sit my DD next to me, pick up the textbook (which is already Post-It noted to the correct page), open it to the right page, supervise the work in a super-focused fashion, and close the book. Then I put it on the done pile, check it off the list (yes, I have an actual checklist), and move on. 

 

 

:iagree:

 

 

I meant to post last night, but I have an active baby too. It sounds like you (the OP) spend a lot of time distracted, not too much time on subjects.

 

In the morning when I have my hands free for a moment, I pull everything I need for the day off the shelf and stack it on the table. I also take a quick browse through it, and make sure I have everything and that nothing is overlapping. For example, if we are doing dictation from AAS, there won't be any dictation from FLL or anything else. We'll either skip that, or move it to another day. I abide by the Flybytheseatofmypants philosophy of planning, as you can see.

 

I'll remove pages from binders and just stack them. So it's just a matter of, "okay! great! let's see what's next!" to transition. And I can do it one-handed, which is VERY IMPORTANT.

 

As for dropping/consolidating subjects, 

 

1) I'm pretty sure SWB says to alternate FLL and WWE if you're doing both. The books themselves aren't set up to presuppose doing both, so there is some overlap between them. I think FLL 3x and WWE 2x a week. And then maybe switch it the next week.

 

2) I wouldn't necessarily drop AAS, it is made to support good reading skills. But I'm not sure how AAS and AAR ties together. I would ask AALP where in AAS you should be based upon where you are AAR and how to tie them together.

 

3) I support starting FLL in 1st, but it's up to your own kid, obviously. I don't count FLL as "seatwork" anyways. CP did most of it while jumping from tile to tile in the kitchen. Are they learning? Are they retaining? Those are the most important questions.

 

4) I don't do a separate reading program, instead I pick a book that is challenging for CP to read and then we tag-team it aloud together. If your kids need graded readers right now, then that's what you should focus on. But if you really want to consolidate and get the literature in, the goal is to get them to read the literature, not just you reading it aloud to them all the time. The only time I purely read aloud to CP is for Science and History, so that he can concentrate on the content. 

 

And finally, if you guys are having fun, you could stretch out your day for 8 hours. There's no prize for getting done the fastest.  :laugh:

[athomeontheprairie]

e I need a summer intensive on just phonics / learning to read. (and drop everything else.) THEN, I can add in the other language arts subjects.

My question is....

Don't you STILL need children to read aloud to you after they have learned to read? How can you be sure they are comprehending things? Or not skipping passages, etc. ? Or work on helping them decode unfamilar words, etc? Everything I have ever read talks about how important it is to continue listening to your kids read aloud in order to improve fluency, vocabulary, etc. Am I wrong?

So even if I get them reading, wouldn't I still need a block of time to listen to them read aloud?

 

I would just like to address this, as others are helping you in other areas. it is very important for me to make sure my children are reading well and correctly. I want to make sure they are figuring out new words and comprehending their books. BUT, this happens very naturally. when they read a book and come back and tell me blow by blow account of what happened, I know they're comprehending just fine. when I walked in and they're reading a book, I will ask them to read 5 minutes out loud to me FROM where they are right then. if I pick up a book that I think is too hard, I might comb through what they read and find a difficult paragraph and ask them to read it out loud to me.

this is very very natural here, it only takes a few moments a day. it lets me know what I need to work on with them during structured school, but it also frees up time during school.

OP, I hope you find a way to make your day less stressful. and I hope you find a good balance with all 3 kids, that is constant battle here as well :-)

[Tracy]

A couple of years ago, I had to pare everything down to the nitty gritty basics, because I realized that my dd (then about 7yo) would never be able to do it all due to an LD.  So here is what I did:

 

SWR:  covers handwriting, spelling, reading, and a smattering of grammar all at the same time - about 45 minutes

WWE:  covers composition and a smattering of grammar; I could have covered composition in SWR, but WWE was a better choice for her.  If I had to do it over again, I would not start WWE1 until 2nd grade (even without the LD).  - 10 minutes

Math - 30-45 minutes

History read-alouds while kids color or build something  - 30 minutes

Geography - nothing formal, just a map on the wall in our dining room; we talk about the map and play oral trivia games with it when we are eating.  When I tried to do formal geography, I found that my kids didn't need it, because they already knew more than the curriculum taught.  

Scriptures:  With Dad at bedtime

 

Grammar:  I decided that we just didn't need a separate, formal grammar program at that young age.  There was a lot of grammar in SWR and WWE, and I felt that was more than enough.  Last year (3rd grade), dd9 did Grammarland 1x/week for 18 weeks.  She seems to have a better grasp of grammar than the average 9yo, so I am quite happy with the path we have taken.  

[MeganW]

For language arts, we ONLY did reading & handwriting until they were reading WELL.  After that, we started spelling.  I didn't add grammar until this year.  

 

We now do spelling, grammar, and writing, but we only do two of the three subjects each schoolday - I just rotate them.)  None of those subjects takes more than 15-20 minutes tops.  After 15 minutes, I start looking for a logical stopping place even if it isn't the end of the lesson.  The writing lessons should cover handwriting/copywork/dictation, but I do a separate handwriting program just because it is an area that my kids need some extra work.

 

We do read-alouds during breakfast and lunch, or else listen to them in the car.  Being a captive audience tends to help my kids focus.  :) 

[Walking-Iris]

You've got a ton of great responses already!!! 

 

I would just add that as far as FLL, you could either drop it, or just do a simple 5-10 minute lesson in the morning during breakfast. Sometimes I would read ahead and make notes to myself on the FLL lessons and then just orally work on them with my ds at random times...while doing chores, in the car, on a walk etc.He hardly ever saw the actual FLL book. I rarely pulled it out and read from it to him. We covered quite a bit orally(non-scripted, in my normal conversation voice with him) and any writing activities we would do in the morning a few times a week.  WWE--combine days. Do the narration lesson and the copywork lesson in the same sitting. OR just wait until 2nd grade to start WWE. That makes a 4 day week of WWE a 2 day week. I would also look into using a spelling program to function as a phonics/handwriting program. And then just have the child read aloud from actual books another time in the day for reading practice. I love HWOT as well, but usually I would just give one of those workbooks to my children at the beginning of the year and finish it in a week or two and let copywork/writing be the handwriting practice the rest of the year. Same with grammar. I try to finish a grammar program in Fall (starting in 3rd--FLL 1 and 2 are a bit different. I'm thinking about any workbook type grammar) and then write the rest of the year and review/reinforce grammar through editing the writing.

 

If bedtime reading is difficult to do with the baby (btdt) then try to have a quiet time in the afternoon (after lunch?) where everyone snuggles up on the couch, or on a big bed, and listens to a chapter or two, or a small stack of picture books for your little ones. If you're lucky people will take a nap.

 

I have designated days for the extras we love. Friday is typically art and nature study after math lessons and a freewrite for my oldest. That's all we do that day. You might also like the Bravewriter idea of Tuesday Teatime. Kids love the whole production and it also knocks out read aloud time (poetry typically---but you can read aloud anything you like during the teatime). You might also try audiobooks at bedtime. My kids love listening to things like Classical Kids or a few Weiss audios, even music on Pandora, at bedtime. They also like to check out audiobooks from the library for bedtime.

 

Science and history tend to be ongoing around here. But typically I aim for content read alouds/discussion a few times a week. My 5th grader reads history daily. And I aim for  more involved activities a couple times a month. I also have no reservations using a Saturday or a Sunday for a science or history activity.

 

Instead of trying to schedule by the clock daily. Look at how you can spread out your work throughout the month.

[TheAttachedMama]

Reading through all of these replies this morning.  I just want to say THANK YOU to each of you again.  I know you are all just as busy as I am, so I really appreciate you taking the time to give me such valuable feedback. 

[angelmama1209]

random thoughts based on all i've read:

 

we don't do spelling until phonics is complete- in my oldest's case that was 3rd grade- and aar and aas are both SO teacher/time intensive, i certainly woudn't do them both together.

 

i would say her reading turned "fluent" between 2nd and 3rd grade

 

maybe get audio books for literature/Bible/history/etc to listen to during meal times and cut that time out of your day

 

i keep an abeka or bju reader in the car and have her read to me while we drive somewhere. it doesn't happen every day, but it entertains her sisters and lets me see where she is

 

fll 1 and 2 honestly took us no more than 10 minutes max. i understand flex time, truly, i have a baby and a toddler, but 20 minutes of flex time every day? nope

 

i would try to cut out the materials put away between each subject. get everything you need for the day out and stacked/organized/whatever, work through the stack, put away at the end. or maybe 2 sessions- before and after lunch.

 

i think dropping everything but reading for the summer is a good plan

 

my 5 and 6yos are learning to read, but i don't feel like plugging away at it for hours a day would facilitate that or benefit them at all. they do sight words (10-15 minutes), explode the code (2 pages, 10 minute2), phonics pathways (10 minutes), hooked on phonics app (5-10 minutes), and my 6yo had reading for her early intervention program (10-20 minutes depending on her attitude). it all feels different for them so they don't realize it's the "same".

 

my days seem incredibly long, too, but my kids make everything take for. ev. er. it's maddening and they complain that all they do is chores and school. but when you take 30 minutes to do a 5 minute job because you stop to play, or read, or complain, etc, of course it's going to feel that way. *eye roll* i am also simplifying our schedule/schoolwork to try and fix that. :) hang in there, mama. try different things, go for a general flow rather than a strict schedule, maybe take a break in the middle for rest/read aloud time and "fun" subjects before hitting the harder stuff again, and, some people may frown on this, but don't be afraid of the tv or a tablet for the baby (not sure how old yours is). my 2yo has learned her alphabet from watching super why (she can identify all the letters and loves to point them out everywhere. now when she does that i sing the little song from leapfrog letter factory to work on the sounds) and my 5 month old will watch a baby einstein freeing my arms up for 20 minutes or so to accomplish something else.

[Tracy]

Let me just add that even with a simplified schedule, it still takes all day for my dd9 to get her work done, even when she tries (which is why we had to simplify in the first place).  

[Tawlas]

Hey there, just chiming in quickly. I have three kids learning to read (4yo is an eager beaver lol) as well as a baby and we manage to get school done in 4 or 5 hours, depending on the day. BUT I have very little time for read alouds. When it works we all sit down with picture books before afternoon quiet time, but for novels - which I feel require daily consistency to work, especially for younger children - I *only* use what my library has on CD or mp3. Helps narrow down the choices, but I find my library has a pretty good selection. There are SO many wonderful children's books!

 

So breakfast time is when we listen to novels I've chosen from the WWE excerpts. We listen to poetry or music to go along with the composer of the month at snack time. I have SOTW on CD. My kids choose their own stories either from the library or audible.com for their quiet time. They have a fantastic vocabulary and LOVE books, even thought none of them read completely independently yet.

 

Perhaps you can either work with another child while one listens, or you can feed the baby (and yourself! what a novel concept! ;) ) or prepare for the next thing etc. Just one more way to shave off a bit of time.

 

Just FYI, for comparison, I do PK with the 4 yo at 730 after breakfast. I sit down with my husband for an hour at 8 while the older three do chores, then play. At 9, we do group work (FLL, WWE, memory work and calendar) then I work with the 6yo for an hour. We have snack, then I work with the 7 yo for an hour. Then a half hour of science or history, done together, then lunch. We are in town one day a week, so I do some school on Saturday - history or science activities or documentaries, art, usually "funner" stuff on top of a barebones one-on-one time with just a bit of reading from a levelled book of some kind and a page or two of math.

 

HTH?

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

When my oldest 2 were that age we had a pretty simple school day. We worked on math for about 30 minutes, phonics/reading for 20-30 minutes, handwriting for 10 minutes, and piano practice for 15 minutes, Bible/memory verse for 15 minutes. If we did copywork or wrote letters or thank you notes or any other kind of writing, we didn't do handwriting that day. I don't start any grammar, spelling or other language arts skills until around 3rd grade - or until they were reading well and could write easily.

 

For science we'd get books from the library on topics they were interested in, watch Magic School Bus or Curious George, or do simple things like having an ant farm, watching caterpillars turn into butterflies, or identifying the birds at our bird feeder. We'd also go for walks and then look up information on the interesting plants or animals the saw. It was never planned, structured, or consistent.

 

For history I mostly just read books. I used the Beautiful Feet Early American guide. I mostly used it as a book list. I've also used books from other lists like the ones found in the WTM and SCM. I chose the ones that looked most interesting and read as much or a  little as we felt like. Sometimes the kids would draw a picture of what I was reading, other times we just curled up together on the couch. We have our read aloud time either before afternoon rest time or at night before bedtime - depending on my husband's work schedule. It doesn't work for us to read when he's home so I schedule it for when he's at work. We'd start with my choice (either a history book or our current read aloud chapter book - not both) and then each of the kids would get to pick. They could choose whatever they wanted - library book, picture book, a chapter of something else, or another chapter of a school book. Even the babies liked to pick. Again, this was not planned out. We'd have a spot in the routine for it but what was actually read changed from day to day depending on what we all felt like. Sometimes I'd ask them to narrate something, sometimes I'd wait until dinner and then say, "Tell dad about that cool book we read about George Washington." Narration covered and no one knows it's school. :-)

 

Another thing you can do for history is watch a series like Liberty Kids or listen to history stories on CD. This is all we're doing right now. We're taking a few weeks "off" but the kids have been watching Liberty Kids again and this morning they were listening to the Legend of Squanto. 

 

My advice is to cut or shorten a bunch of stuff or try rotating if you really can't part with it. Also, set an ending time for school. Start with the top priorities and anything not done by the time school ends for the day just doesn't get done. Or do a loop schedule where you pick up the next day where you stopped the day before. But definitely prioritize. Pick the most important subject  and drop the rest (you can always add them back in one at a time if you find you have more time) or, if that's not an option for you, try out a loop schedule. For a while we did math and phonics/reading every day and everything else was on a loop schedule.

 

Hang in there! This is only a season!

[TheAttachedMama]

I like your idea of setting an ending time for the day...and looping subjects.  Thanks!

[CAtoVA]

Well, your schedule exhausts me just reading it! LOL!

 

I haven't read all the posts thoroughly so I am probably repeating others but...... I have been through with one already (DS now aged 10) and am now working with a DD (age 6) and I never did (do)  all that language arts with pre-reading/non fluent readers. Early dictation was a bust with DS anyway and WWE had to be dumped by 2nd grade. Academically, until about 2nd or 3rd grade my focus is on phonics/learning to read, read alouds of great lit, mathematics and handwriting (learning to print). No grammar or "real" composition yet.

 

So, just to compare and maybe help a little bit I'll describe what I do with my DD aged 6:  it is daily phonics/reading with a mixture of AAR level 2, K12 phonics and McRuffy Phonics along with other leveled readers (not all on the same day but a mash up). She has been working through Explode the Code books 2 and 3 independently and that serves as phonics reinforcement and spelling. I read aloud to her daily and also do Memoria Press First Favorites somewhat informally for literature (This is about 2-3 times a week and I scribe). DD also loves to listen to audio CD's of great lit on her own. For Mathematics we are doing Singapore math 1 with lots of hands on work (daily). She does either a page of letters, words and one sentence (copywork) per day for handwriting or 1-2 pages of HWOT. We do a Bible/character type of study informally about 4 times  a week. About twice a week  we do a home made geography study of the seven continents integrated with literature, music, art, culture and science (zoology, habitats and weather mostly). This involves lots of reading real books, drawing/coloring, making a cookie dough map of the continent, watching you tube or Netflix videos, etc.  We are working on Africa now. In August I plan to add a similar type of study of Early American history using Elemental History as a spine.

 

Once a week, DD goes to a homeschool coop and studies science, art, p.e. and chorus (singing). She also takes piano and ballet 1x each per week.

 

So, maybe you are trying to do too much, too formally, and too early? I don't know. You have to find what works for you but, academically,  my #1 goal for my kiddies in early primary is to read well, be exposed to good literature, write legibly and have a solid grasp of beginning math .This takes us about 2 hours per day (a little longer on geography days) . I also want her to have time to enjoy being outside when weather permits and to spend time playing with her little sister. Everything else is fun and gravy!

 

 

[foxbridgeacademy]

I agree with the previous posters, way too much language arts for non-fluent readers.  Grammar, writing/handwriting, and spelling should be about 30 minutes total, not 30 minutes each.  Consider dropping grammar and spelling until your children are reading fluently.  This would shave an hour off your morning schedule.  Alternate days of cursive handwriting and writing or combine the two.  You could have your children narrate from history, science, geography and/or selected read aloud titles.  Does AAR really take 30 minutes per child?

 

Would your day flow better if you rearranged your schedule?  Have you tried Bible or reading aloud first thing in the morning, then moving on to core subjects?  Consider a lunchtime read aloud or audio book.  History/science/geography and enrichment pair up nicely for afternoon study.  Or move history/science/geography to the first lesson of the day followed by math and language arts.   

:iagree:  Since they're not fluent I wouldn't have them doing grammar or spelling. Cursive should be 15 minutes 2-3 days and then have them practice what they've learned when doing Dictation the other days.  When they're fluent readers then drop Phonics/reading instruction for Grammar/Spelling/Comprehension.

We always did read aloud when the baby was sleepy (usually after lunch) so that she and even the older would fall asleep and I could have some alone time or 1 on 1 with the older child. 

[wehave8]

Some of these posts really have me confused (I know that's easy to do right now in my life!  :)  )

But, really, many suggest holding off on spelling until reading fluently.  I know the OPer is using AAS, but Spalding and some other programs teach spelling before reading fluently.

Mine were all well into the Ayres List before reading FLUENTLY.  Was I doing something wrong?

 

Pam

[Aloha2U]

Absolutely not, Pam. Quite the contrary, imo.

 

Wanda (author of SWR) Sanseri's Senate Hearing Speech: http://www.bhibooks.net/f/Senate_Speech.pdf

[Haiku]

I don't think it's "wrong" to teach spelling before reading, but none of mine really benefited from it. They didn't begin to spell decently until they began to read fluently. 

[RootAnn]

Some of these posts really have me confused (I know that's easy to do right now in my life!   :)  )

But, really, many suggest holding off on spelling until reading fluently.  I know the OPer is using AAS, but Spalding and some other programs teach spelling before reading fluently.

Mine were all well into the Ayres List before reading FLUENTLY.  Was I doing something wrong?

 

Pam

 

Using AAR & AAS together is overkill, IMO. If you do end up using both of them, you can cut down on half the stuff from one of the programs - making the other one shorter to implement. The idea for the OP is that she can use AAR until the kid is doing well with reading -- and then switch COMPLETELY over to AAS. It will streamline her schedule and be a smooth change since both programs are by the same publisher.

 

I get my kids reading _something_ before we start the Spalding-spin-off Spell to Write & Read (SWR). Part of that reason is because my kids don't have the small motor skills early to do handwriting - so we hold off on handwriting until the 2nd semester of K. So, by the time we have the ability to do some writing, the kids already know many of their phonograms and are started on reading. We switch over to JUST SWR (plus some read aloud time) as our phonics/spelling/handwriting course.

 

There's nothing wrong with spelling-your-way-to-reading, but that means your spelling program is your reading program. You don't have to do both.

[Tracy]

Learning spelling first is another philosophy to teaching reading.  It is not at all wrong.  But understand that spelling first is quite a different approach to spelling than what most people understand spelling to be.  It is not worksheets that get you to write the word several times.  It is an in-depth analysis of each word.  By analyzing a word for the purposes of spelling, one also learns to read it.  

 

I started my ds6 in SWR when he was almost 4yo (2yo if you want to count learning phonograms with big sister).  He was trying to read and write on his own, by just guessing, so I spent about 2 minutes per day on these skills at that age.  At the time, he did not have the fine motor skills to use a pencil and paper, so we used sandpaper letters and then graduated to a saltbox within a couple of months.  We continued with the saltbox and later a whiteboard until he was ready for a pencil and paper.  

[Ellie]

 

But, really, many suggest holding off on spelling until reading fluently.  I know the OPer is using AAS, but Spalding and some other programs teach spelling before reading fluently.

Mine were all well into the Ayres List before reading FLUENTLY.  Was I doing something wrong?

 

Pam

 

You misunderstand Spalding. :-)

 

Spalding doesn't teach children to spell before they are reading fluently. Spalding teaches children to read by teaching them to spell.  Children are specifically introduced to books when they finish the words to Section I of the Extended Ayres List. I'm not sure how many words that is, but you might consider that being "well into the Ayres list." Those first books are Ten Apples Up On Top, Green Eggs and Ham, and others of that level. After writing the words to Section L, they are ready for The Carrot Seed, Curious George, Madeline, the Five Chinese Brothers, and others like that. After writing the words up to Section O, they can read pretty much anything.

[simplemom]

I don't have a baby, but see myself ping ponging back and forth with dc next year since 6yo is still learning to read and 8 yo is not quite independent with other subjects (he reads well, but LOVES reading to me from the McGuffey 3rd reader and wants to keep one on one reading time in the schedule).

 

The only thing I can suggest for this season of life where I am certain baby care is taking a good but of transition time which is why the schooling doesn't move smoothly like ours does from subject to subject is this: maybe do history one semester and science the next OR choose one of those subjects to be hands off by you for just this season (meaning for history just have them listen to SOTW or other audiobook of choice and come narrate to you while you are prepping lunch or have them watch YouTube science videos and tell you what they learned after the fact). Just an idea either don't do both subjects the same semester OR choose one of those subjects to be hands off just for this season, you can always do something more hands on when the baby gets older.

 

The other thing is to choose between formal cursive OR formal manuscript for handwriting/copywork. Whichever you decide, get a dry erase board or dollar tree type handwriting workbooks for the other type you aren't doing formally in the am that they can work on their own in the afternoon without any pressure (just say to them something like, work on your workbook or dry erase handwriting for 10 minutes then have quiet time). Later, you can come back and more formally teach the other choice of cursive or manuscript (just don't drain yourself and teach both to both children every morning).

 

For this season of life, can you do art OR music one semester, or every 6 weeks. Something like study Monet prints and style for 6 weeks and then study Beethoven for 6 weeks. Do this only 2-3 times a week, so that takes out enrichment time every day, then leaves one day for nature study. And remember nature study is science too....if you are fitting this in once/week, don't double up and do science that same day.

 

Make grammar more informal, like correcting their incorrect a grammar, instructing on capitals and punctuation in copywork, etc....if you want to do FLL, just a brief lesson about 5-10 minutes on a topic to both children together, maybe 3 days/week (maybe during the time you don't do enrichment if you cut artist/composer back to 2-3x/week instead of everyday). Maybe on busy days, instead of reading from a lit book or sonlight reader, read a couple of short poems to lesson the time, yet dc still get quality reading time in.

 

Agreeing about if at all possible doing a short devotion/Bible time as a family (maybe 10-15 minutes?). We just read a segment from a Bible storybook. If your children are going to a Sunday School class or go to things like VBS, don't forget they are learning Bible stories there as well. At their ages, the kids probably pay attention for about the first 10-15 minutes of most things you teach and their attention span starts to dwindle after that. I hate to suggest you shorten Bible, but something short and sweet is likely to accomplish just as much as a longer Bible lesson at their age. They'll get the application in real life, and if you use the little moments to put in Bible lessons as life events come up throughout each day.

 

Also, for this season, do audiobooks of good quality lit during baby's nap time, and save reading to them for longer periods for days you are on break from school or weekends. That's just to get you through this busier season when your dc need so much one on one instruction from you and your baby is completely dependent on you for everything. Maybe take 5 minutes to read short library book or a couple poems, then turn on an audiobook.

 

Also, I'd like to recommend CDs that include the life story of the composer on them for your dc afternoon enrichment time. This doesn't take you hands off of their composer study forever just until your dc require less one on one instruction from you for the 3Rs.

 

I had so much planned for our dc education, but even without a baby, simplified to a fun song or game, 3 R's and short Bible devotion each morning. If the 3 R's take longer or we have an outside the home activity I don't get to other subjects that day. But on most days, I am able to get to a history read aloud, an artist/composer/poetry on rotation, sometimes geography or science. If I don't get to any of the subjects beyond the 3rs on a busier day, their education isn't going to fall apart. As long as they are consistently exposed to art, music, history, science, poetry, etc...at this age I think they are fine. But it doesn't have to happen on a schedule. Also, I hear you don't want to leave anything out. It is fine to not leave anything out, ALL your subjects are GREAT, just they all don't have to be taught all at the same time.

 

In summary: Focus on their reading, writing, math, and Biblical character/habits....then choose science, history, music, art, cursive, and other things divided up by trimesters, semesters, or months. And for all those extras, don't make all of them parent intensive, use audiobooks, CDs, and videos, you can be one on one for some of it, but you have a full plate with everything else and don't feel guilty taking an easy out for you for a few of the extras.

 

Just some humble suggestions from a green hand homeschooler, not at all offended if it isn't practical advice. Forgive all the run on sentences, I was thinking it out while typing and don't have time to go back and correct. You probably don't want to take any grammar or writing advice from me, lol.

[My3girls]

My girls are wrapping up 2nd grade, and here is what we did.  Take from it what you will.

 

10:00 poetry or Fable

10:15 handwriting

10:30 SpellWell

10:45 ETC

11:00 Break

11:15 Read Aloud (science or history or geography)

11:45 FLL2 or WWE2

12:00 Lunch

1:00   Math

1:30   Group Read (popcorn style)

2:00   Chores and then free play

8:00   Silent reading book of their choice (20 min)

 

All together that's about 3 hours give or take 5 minutes.  We sometimes took longer if the girls were into a topic.  Occassionally, we'd play boggle for spelling or Mad Libs for grammar or iPad apps for math.  Even though the lessons were short, their reading, writing, spelling, and math skills all improved.  They struggle with grammar, but I think that is a maturity issue and it will come in time.  Bits and pieces stuck in history and science, but it's basically for exposure at this age anyway so I try not to stress over it.  We do nature study on the weekend when Daddy is home to lead it.  As for music and art appreciation, we haven't really gotten into that too much yet.  I'm including it in their history lessons.  So far we've just looked at cave art, pottery, etc...  They have taken art lessons, and we plan to do music lessons starting in August which will add to the work load.   

 

In my humble opinion, 30 minutes it's too long for each lesson at this age.  15-20 min is plenty.  Math and read alouds are our only 30 min lessons, but in reality we are often finished a little earlier than that.

[wehave8]

You misunderstand Spalding. :-)

 

Spalding doesn't teach children to spell before they are reading fluently. Spalding teaches children to read by teaching them to spell. 

 

...like I said.

 

 

Children are specifically introduced to books when they finish the words to Section I of the Extended Ayres List. I'm not sure how many words that is, but you might consider that being "well into the Ayres list." Those first books are Ten Apples Up On Top, Green Eggs and Ham, and others of that level. After writing the words to Section L, they are ready for The Carrot Seed, Curious George, Madeline, the Five Chinese Brothers, and others like that. After writing the words up to Section O, they can read pretty much anything.

 

I know, I taught it.  It was YEARS ago.  I didn't have time to write out the list of books.

 

[pehp]

My son just turned 7.  We do school in 1-2 hours b/c we do a lot less.  Dailies are math, reading (this entails phonics and my child reading aloud to me) and usually copywork.  I don't do grammar or spelling yet.  We do cultures/geography, history or science some days, but that only consists of read alouds (or for science, a nature walk or maybe an experiment from our kit). I read the Bible to my children over a meal typically and also that is my favorite time to read poetry.  We fit literature read-alouds in whenever. 

 

Everything else rises pretty organically. I have some days on my blog (link in signature) that may give an idea of how things roll here. 

 

HTH!

[Korrale]

I am still reading through but wanted to add some ideas before I forget.

 

Don't drop family dinner time if that is what matters as a family. It can see that it is important for you. However when your daughters start having more reading independence I would assign reading time. Let them choose when they will have this reading time. You could assign books, or let them choose. I just give my son a selection and let him read as much as he desires. During family dinner time I would have the girls talk about their books. To make it fun you could create cheat sheet placemats. On the placemats have plot, characters, begging, middle and end, predictions etc. Then have them talk about their stories. You will know if they are understanding what they are reading.

Audiobooks are a good way to do read alouds. Our library has many selections.

 

As for LA. I agree with many of what has been stated. We are not relaxed homeschoolers (see signature) but we don't do that much combined language arts a day.

I was able to teach my son so much grammar in seconds as we read. I pointed out the importance of a capital letter at the beginning of a sentence. I showed him sentences that were statements, commands and questions and showed him the appropriate punctuation mark for each. I showed him what quotation marks were and how they were used. I epleined the difference between a period and a comma.

We also covered parts of speech. Mostly through play. First I demonstrated. Then randomly running around playing I will ask him for a noun, he will go a grab something or tell me a noun. I would then ask if it was a person, place, thing or idea. My son loves showing me a verb as he does some silly action. He lies down and pretends to sleep, he slurps up pretend soup or he does a silly dance. For adjectives we fill in the blanks. Especially when we are walking. I will point out to a tree and have him tell me something to describe the tree. By the time we started more formal grammar I had nothing to teach, so my son just filled out his books in minutes. Filling out his books was his handwriting practice by the way.

Do you get the idea?

[Korrale]

I also wanted to add that before AAR was available many people used AAS to teach reading. I don't use either programs, so you will be a better judge, are both really necessary?

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

I did second grade and K-4 this year with a one year old.  Some days, we were still working later in the afternoon, but we never start as early as 8 am, and we really take our time.  I have a serious dawdler.  We did all the language arts subjects too, but we did not do separate reading/phonics because he is a fluent reader.  I feel he gets this in spelling.  AAS and AAR does take a bit longer than other curriculums, but it sounds like this is where your focus needs to be.  I would say that you can do all these things, but you don't have to do every thing every day.  That is going to make for a long day, and they are still learning through play at this age.  Combine some things.  Do narrations from your read-alouds.  Maybe do a 4-day writing schedule every other week.  Alternate cursive writing or do 2x per week.  Maybe relax a bit on FLL until they are better readers.  I think reading should be the primary LA focus.  Yes, these other LA subjects are important, and I certainly do them.  But reading is the main goal right now, and it's hard to understand where a noun is in a sentence if you're still learning to decipher what the sentence says.  When they're reading on grade level, add the grammar and writing back in.  I don't know what you are using for history, but SOTW has geography built in.  I also don't know what science you are using, but this could be once a week, especially if you're doing nature study too.  Art and music can also be weekly or even every other week.  Don't feel tied to what a curriculum outlines even if it takes more than a year to finish the book.  Stick to daily math, reading and Bible and balance the rest.  Hope this helps!

[delaneyla]

I like your idea of setting an ending time for the day...and looping subjects.  Thanks!

 

Can someone help me understand "looping" subjects? Trying to get a schedule together for our first year homeschooling next year (1st grade) and my head is about to explode. 

[JubilantNest]

I didn't get a chance to read all the replies thoroughly, but in skimming I didn't see this mentioned...  Have you thought about shelving the AAS for now?  We did AAS with our eldest and just by hanging around listening to our lessons my two year old knew all the phonograms and was able to read simple words.  I can only imagine that AAR is actually working in reverse to teach your children spelling also.  Those programs are time intensive, so that should help loosen up your schedule without sacrificing any of the other things you want to teach.

[RootAnn]

Can someone help me understand "looping" subjects? Trying to get a schedule together for our first year homeschooling next year (1st grade) and my head is about to explode. 

 

So, imagine you have eight (8) subjects you'd like to get to. You decide you want to hit Phonics, Handwriting, and Math every day, but the others can be less often - to keep your sanity & a decent amount of work for first grade. The other subjects will be labeled A, B, C, D, and E for simplification.

 

So, on Monday, you hit:

Phonics

Handwriting

Math

Subject A

Subject B

... and you call your day DONE.

 

On Tuesday, you hit

Phonics

Handwriting

Math

Subject C

Subject D

... and you call your day DONE.

 

On Wednesday, you hit

Phonics

Handwriting

Math

Subject E

Subject A

... and you call your day DONE.

 

On Thursday, you hit

Phonics

Handwriting

Math

Subject B

Subject C

... and you call your day DONE.

 

On Friday, you go on a field trip and only get a little phonics done.

 

On the next Monday, you do:

Phonics

Handwriting

Math & pick up on your loop schedule where you left off with:

Subject D

Subject E

 

etc.

 

If you have something you want to hit at least twice per week, you add that in every-other-day and loop the other things. 

[expandingwisdom]

@TheAttachedMama, I can relate. I have struggled with my schedule as well. I have no idea if this is where you are at, this is just my experience with this situation. The only thing I have found that has eased the stress has been to deal with the question of "why" and my fears. I used to feel like I had to do a huge list of things and if I didn't there would be gaps or they would miss out or dss would take my kids away. (that was a real fear for me).  I was never able to have a confidence regarding what they should be doing until I clearly spelled out my why for homeschooling, and more specifically my why for committing to a certain homeschooling philosophy. Once I did that there was so much that became an automatic no, because it did not fit my why. For example, we decided that we believe what CiRCE and David Hicks teach about education. Therefore I know for the younger years I will not have lessons taking more than 15 minutes. I also know -for us - that history, science, and geography do not have to be separate subjects. I teach those subject through reading and everyday life with a little nature study thrown in. I also had to release fear. No matter what suggestions I received, there was always that nagging anxiety that it was not enough. It wasn't until I began viewing our curriculum from a place of love, rather than fear, that I had confidence about my decisions. This has been my experience/process in dealing with these same questions. Thank you for posting. :)

[delaneyla]

Thank you so much!   Now it makes sense :) 

 

 

So, imagine you have eight (8) subjects you'd like to get to. You decide you want to hit Phonics, Handwriting, and Math every day, but the others can be less often - to keep your sanity & a decent amount of work for first grade. The other subjects will be labeled A, B, C, D, and E for simplification.

 

So, on Monday, you hit:

Phonics

Handwriting

Math

Subject A

Subject B

... and you call your day DONE.

 

On Tuesday, you hit

Phonics

Handwriting

Math

Subject C

Subject D

... and you call your day DONE.

 

On Wednesday, you hit

Phonics

Handwriting

Math

Subject E

Subject A

... and you call your day DONE.

 

On Thursday, you hit

Phonics

Handwriting

Math

Subject B

Subject C

... and you call your day DONE.

 

On Friday, you go on a field trip and only get a little phonics done.

 

On the next Monday, you do:

Phonics

Handwriting

Math & pick up on your loop schedule where you left off with:

Subject D

Subject E

 

etc.

 

If you have something you want to hit at least twice per week, you add that in every-other-day and loop the other things. 

 

 

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

Just had to comment on this part as quoted:

 

Don't you STILL need children to read aloud to you after they have learned to read?  How can you be sure they are comprehending things?  Or not skipping passages, etc. ?  Or work on helping them decode unfamilar words, etc?  Everything I have ever read talks about how important it is to continue listening to your kids read aloud in order to improve fluency, vocabulary, etc.   Am I wrong?

So even if I get them reading, wouldn't I still need a block of time to listen to them read aloud?

 

If you teach your child how to read and they love it, you will constantly hear them read just as much as your son tells you about Pokemon.  They will always be saying, "Hey Mom, listen to this!"  Just talk to them about what they're reading and make it part of every day life.  In your Bible lesson, have them read a Scripture or two.  Narration also helps.  You don't need a block of time.  It's an organic part of learning.

[Wabi Sabi]

I've just skimmed the responses, but I'm wondering if you've considered the use of audiobooks? They've been a great way for us to sneak in more literature- your children could listen to books while you're tending to the baby, during meals, in the car, etc. 

Also, have you considered using materials that are less teacher intensive? While I liked the looks of AAS, I knew it would never work for us and opted for ETC for phonics instruction instead. I can spend 5 minutes introducing each new lesson to my 6 year old, then she can complete it independently. I let ETC do double duty for spelling and phonics right now. I won't start a formal spelling program until she finishes the ETC series (currently on book 4 out of 8), and even then I'll most likely have her use the same independent spelling program that my oldest child uses (Sequential Spelling on DVD.)