"It's too bad your parents won't let you go to school." How do you respond?

[Elisabet1]

take your own advice.  this relative is not to be trusted. (actually - she's worse) this isn't about homeschool - it's about everything.  she is undermining not only your authority - but everyone who may ever have authority over them.  she is attempting to incite rebellion, with a devil may care, do what you want and lie to avoid the consequences attitude.  whether she means to incite rebellion or not is irrelevant - she is attempting to.  re: actions speak louder than words. I would keep my children away - and the only way in hades she'd see them is if I was present the entire time.

Exactly.

 

She is teaching your children to do whatever else, and you are the bad guy if you say no. Down the line, they will face temptation, and then they will think mom is just a fuddy duddy who never lets us do anything fun and they will do just whatever...which could be drugs, drinking, sex, running away, etc.

[Grover]

I know I'm late to this discussion, but I'm adding my voice anyway.  NO adults ask children to keep secrets from their parents.  None.  Ever.  If she isn't aware that this is risky behaviour she needs to be told so, and make sure the kids know too.  If it continued after you've pointed this out to her I'd have to put her into the group of "unsafe adults".

[EndOfOrdinary]

Is it possible to have one of the older children explain that when she makes these comments it puts him/her in a tough place? Could you turn it into a situation where the kids could self advocate? It's not like they aren't going to be put into places where someone they care about is teasing them with very nice looking choices that you have told them aren't okay. Drugs, tobacco, going to parties, alcohol, sex, etc. are normally suggested by close friends or in situations where there is immense pressure to conform. Could this be explained as a trial run for standing up to peer pressure?

 

If that did not work, then by all means go use some of the extensive homeschool classical education vocabulary on said relative to make the person feel small and scamper back under their rock!

 

My fourth grader told a kid at library book club that the other boy's "sexist thoughts perpetuated misogyny." The room grew very quiet and the boy apologized obviously confused. When I asked in the car how on earth my son even knew those words he said, "You told GG (great grandpa) that sentence when he kept saying I had to cut my hair because I looked like a girl. It works really well!"

 

You never know what you might teach them.

[Melissa in Australia]

EndOfOrdinary, that is terrific

[DawnM]

Ugh.  This is my MIL.  DH is taking my kids up there without me.  I can't handle seeing her.  She is constantly making comments to my kids about how she feels so sorry for them because they don't get to go to school, or she feels sorry for them because they don't believe in Santa, or some other such crap.  She says it right TO them.

 

I simply don't have the patience for it anymore.  I was better in my 30s.  My 40s have taken away all my filters.  

 

 

 

[73349]

The first time somebody says DS ought to go to school, I'll be :lol: , because DS and school were not cut out for each other. But the second time, I would be Quite Clear that these comments are not okay.

 

I agree with the PPs that the lying is a huge issue and sufficient reason to keep kids from being with the aunt without me present. I'd tell her that directly, because honesty is something we have worked hard to inculcate in our child.

[Harriet Vane]

This is not something to be "nice" about.

 

I would seriously go ballistic on this one. Your relative needs to be told in no uncertain terms:

 

--Don't EVER tell my kids to lie to their parents or hide things from them. That is the behavior of child abusers and it is a bad, bad idea to legitimize such interactions with the kids.

 

--You are NEVER allowed to discuss schooling or other parenting decisions with my kids. Period. Because you cannot do so in an appropriate manner.

 

It's not something to discuss. When objections are made or the behavior is minimized, you repeat your boundaries (above). Frankly, something like this calls for a "big dog" posture. By that I mean choose to be firm, with an assertive tone of voice and a closed look on your face. Everything about your body language needs to make it clear that there will be no argument on this.

[brehon]

I agree with Laurie & Harriet Vane. This is NOT a time to be nice. This is the time to gird your loins (as it were) and tell your relative/friend/whomever to Knock It Off - in no uncertain terms.

 

OP, your warning flags are flying for a reason. Heed them. Many women have this (IMO) awful tendency to sugar-coat serious issues so they don't hurt anyone's feelings and keep the peace. This isn't one of those times to be nice.

 

Vacationing with someone is never mandatory unless *you* make it so. Find somewhere else to go or something else to do.

[Kathryn]

Vacationing with someone is never mandatory unless *you* make it so. Find somewhere else to go or something else to do.

Yep. We gave up our annual summer vacation by stopping contact with my mother. Doing what was best for my children was far more important than the continuation of that family tradition (and I do mean tradition: five generations of my family have gone since childhood to this place every summer). Honestly, that's been one of the hardest things about it, for my children and for me. I understand. But, if this person won't stop after being told, I wouldn't hesitate to remove myself and my children from the situation.

[Laurie4b]

So, we have a relative that is always making comments about homeschooling vs PS to my kiddos. 

 

"You really should ask to go to PS, you are missing out on so much fun."

"Your parents are soooo overprotective."

"I feel bad for you - people just shouldn't homeschool for high school."

"You can't possible be learning all my kids are learning."

"You all should go to school now, so you can enjoy your life."

 

Every statement is not just anti-homeschool, but are worded to make my dh and I look like fun killers.  In fact this relative will do stuff with our kids that they think we'd disapprove of and then tell my kids not to tell us.  It's usually stuff we totally approve of - ie. ice cream before lunch.  But they says, "don't tell your parents, they'd be mad."  I've instructed my kids that anyone that ever says, "Don't tell your parents," is not to be trusted, so this confuses them.  I really think they just want to be the fun one and have us be the not fun ones.

 

I've talked to my kiddos (K-8th) about why we homeschool, the benefits of each choice, the cons of each choice, and how we came to our conclusions.  I've told them not to enter into an argument, and to let the comments run off their backs.  The older ones can engage if they want to, but to keep in mind how much we love said relative. 

 

How do you all handle this? 

 

 

oh - one thing I just thought of.  you say how much you love her despite this behavior.  child predators (not saying she is that type - but she is A type) get away with this because they're so charming and "everyone loves them".  it's how they get close to "other people's children".  so that when accusations finally come against them, they have a whole laundry list of people who will testify to their "good character".  no matter how irrefutable the evidence.  (e.g. Sandusky)

 

eta: your warning flags are waving in the wind. heed them.

 

You know, I am rethinking my earlier response a bit. I keyed off of your post that you didn't see this person as a threat, just an annoyance, but pointed out that her behaviors were serious. You may be right and she may be clueless/ignorant, she may be immature, she may be a jerk.... or ... I really think you have to consider this: she may be a predator. Gardenmom is right. The "charm"/loves kids, etc. factor is part of what enables predators to function. I've also bolded another aspect that is true of predators: you suspect she wants to be "the fun one." Right now, the bribe for going behind mom's back is ice cream before lunch. That could change.

 

Here is what your loved relative does that is in common with predators in the grooming process: 

• She is setting herself up to be the fun one
• giving them things that are forbidden (or that she thinks are forbidden)
• telling the kids to lie about it
• working to create an alliance with the children with herself against you, the parent.

 

In actual predators, the forbidden things escalate into sexual things. The guilt from having indulged in some forbidden things earlier behind the parents' back can bind kids to the predator. They  feel stuck. It's very insidious.

 

 Now you may be totally correct and she may just be clueless./ignorant/immature.  I am not saying that she IS a predator, but I think there is enough behavior here that you need to actively consider the predator hypothesis as shocking as that may be to you since it's someone you love.

 

And even if you think she is not a predator, you still need to teach your kids to react to predator grooming behaviors she exhibits in a way that is practice for them and would still protect them if an actual predator did these same behaviors down the road.

 

Teach them to pay close attention to their discomfort not to ignore it (let it roll off their back) or override it (remember how much we love her.)  Their discomfort is the single most important warning signal they have should they encounter a predator.

 

"Remember we love ___"   can translate to " Don't be angry with her. Don't express your feelings forcefully. Don't draw sharp lines. Don't hurt her feelings" in the kids' minds. This is exactly the kind of binding dynamic that keeps kids interacting with predators they know and who have ties with their families and who their parents like--whether it's a neighbor, coach, Scout leader or relative. So many of us teach kids this and don't realize what we're teaching our kids. Often it's as simple as an instruction to "Kiss grandma, c'mon, little one, kiss grandma" when little one doesn't want to. This teaches kids that their feelings/discomfort about interactions are to be put aside in favor of older people who want something from them and we teach them that this is love. Many parents do these kinds of things never dreaming how broadly kids will apply them

 

You want to teach them that their feeling of discomfort overrides all that stuff, not that that stuff overrides their feeling of discomfort.

 

 

 The very positive thing is that you've trained them to come to you and they have so far. However, at some point, they may figure, "Got it. I have my instructions now and will handle this relative like this because now I know what mom will say, and oh, this other person is doing just what grandma/auntie did. I'll handle that the same way, too. I won't tell the person off because I don't want to hurt her/his feelings. Mom doesn't need to be involved because I already know how she wants me to deal with stuff like this"

 

Your reaction to them coming to you is probably contributing to your kids' feelings of confusion. Another pp said take your own advice. You've told them that these behaviors are untrustworthy, but now that they are reporting them to you, your reactions are not what one would expect in response to untrustworthy behavior. This is confusing to the kids, too.

 

The standard procedure for kids with uncomfortable adults (including predators) is "NO, GO, TELL. They should say "No" forcefully when incited to break your rules and/or lie to you. They should not let it roll off their back. They should get out  of the situation immediately (GO). They should TELL you (as they have.) Then you act and set the consequences/boundaries for the adult.

 

If you are sure she is not a predator, and you want to warn her, I would also confront her with a list of grooming behaviors and say, "You may not realize what you are doing, but you are teaching them these behaviors are okay. "  if you choose to give only a warning this time,  tell your kids to confront her  (Say NO) if it happens again. "No, Grandma, Auntie, whomever. We will not lie to mom. We need to leave now because you've told us to hide something from our mother. "  Then they LEAVE (if they are able) or they REFUSE TO GO and they come tell you and you make sure they are not put in that situation again.

 

So sorry. I know you were thinking this is a typical anti-homeschooling scenario only. I hope that you are totally right that she is clueless/ignorant/immature, and carrying it way too far,  but don't sabotage your efforts at training them how to protect themselves by making an exception for this person.

 

 

[Zebra]

Here's the problem....even if your relative is "clueless" she is teaching your children that hanging out with a predator type is okay and normal.  Which is the worst thing in the world you can do for your kids.   Kids need to learn what normal behavior is so alarm bells go off in their heads when something bad is happening.   This relative is telling your children that the choices you are making raising them are wrong, and that they should keep secrets from you.   She is basically telling them to ignore those red flags in life.  You've got to teach your kids to use good judgment, and she is undermining that. 

 

I think this is a huge/enormous/big deal, way beyond an annoying relative.  I think you should stop sharing a vacation house with this person.   And it doesn't matter how painful or uncomfortable the whole scenario is to get yourself disentangled from.   And it will be painful and uncomfortable, I guarantee it.

 

This is clearly sending off alarm bells in your head, and you need to not ignore them.

[Catherine]

Depending on how well I knew the commenter (I don't waste my breath at all on strangers), I would respond, "What a shame YOUR parents did not make the effort to homeschool you!"

[gardenmom5]

I agree with Laurie & Harriet Vane. This is NOT a time to be nice. This is the time to gird your loins (as it were) and tell your relative/friend/whomever to Knock It Off - in no uncertain terms.

 

OP, your warning flags are flying for a reason. Heed them. Many women have this (IMO) awful tendency to sugar-coat serious issues so they don't hurt anyone's feelings and keep the peace. This isn't one of those times to be nice.

 

Vacationing with someone is never mandatory unless *you* make it so. Find somewhere else to go or something else to do.

God gave us a "mom-gut" for a reason.  so we can protect our children. (especially when *we* think there is no danger.  society has done a bang-up job of teaching women to *ignore* that warning voice.) yours is going off.   L.I.S.T.E.N. to IT!   HEED it.  ACT on it by removing your children from her sphere of influence. 

 

 ... I really think you have to consider this: she may be a predator. Gardenmom is right. The "charm"/loves kids, etc. factor is part of what enables predators to function. I've also bolded another aspect that is true of predators: you suspect she wants to be "the fun one."

 

Here is what your loved relative does that is in common with predators in the grooming process: 

• She is setting herself up to be the fun one
• giving them things that are forbidden (or that she thinks are forbidden)
• telling the kids to lie about it
• working to create an alliance with the children with herself against you, the parent.

Teach them to pay close attention to their discomfort not to ignore it (let it roll off their back) or override it (remember how much we love her.)  Their discomfort is the single most important warning signal they have should they encounter a predator.

 

"Remember we love ___"   can translate to " Don't be angry with her. Don't express your feelings forcefully. Don't draw sharp lines. Don't hurt her feelings" in the kids' minds. This is exactly the kind of binding dynamic that keeps kids interacting with predators they know and who have ties with their families and who their parents like--whether it's a neighbor, coach, Scout leader or relative. So many of us teach kids this and don't realize what we're teaching our kids. Often it's as simple as an instruction to "Kiss grandma, c'mon, little one, kiss grandma" when little one doesn't want to. This teaches kids that their feelings/discomfort about interactions are to be put aside in favor of older people who want something from them and we teach them that this is love. Many parents do these kinds of things never dreaming how broadly kids will apply them

 

You want to teach them that their feeling of discomfort overrides all that stuff, not that that stuff overrides their feeling of discomfort.

 

 

 The very positive thing is that you've trained them to come to you and they have so far. However, at some point, they may figure, "Got it. I have my instructions now and will handle this relative like this because now I know what mom will say,

 

Your reaction to them coming to you is probably contributing to your kids' feelings of confusion. Another pp said take your own advice. You've told them that these behaviors are untrustworthy, but now that they are reporting them to you, your reactions are not what one would expect in response to untrustworthy behavior. This is confusing to the kids, too.

 

The standard procedure for kids with uncomfortable adults (including predators) is "NO, GO, TELL. They should say "No" forcefully when incited to break your rules and/or lie to you. They should not let it roll off their back. They should get out  of the situation immediately (GO). They should TELL you (as they have.) Then you act and set the consequences/boundaries for the adult.

:iagree: we got the "kiss grandma" all. the. time.  she had a personality disorder - and was insidiously pscyhologically abusive.  but we were constantly being told to ignore our discomfort and make this woman happy. (and she did a H*** of alot of damage to per posterity she got her claws into.)  because my mother would be so dismissive of my discomfort - when I was approached by a flasher, I didn't tell anyone because the responses I always got when *I* was uncomfortable was to dismiss it.   oh - it also can contribute to kids to be more likely to be the victim of a bully because they don't stand up for themselves and they've been taught to put up with bad behavior.  but I digress -

[Elisabet1]

Ugh.  This is my MIL.  DH is taking my kids up there without me.  I can't handle seeing her.  She is constantly making comments to my kids about how she feels so sorry for them because they don't get to go to school, or she feels sorry for them because they don't believe in Santa, or some other such crap.  She says it right TO them.

 

I simply don't have the patience for it anymore.  I was better in my 30s.  My 40s have taken away all my filters.  

Dawn..why do you let your dh takes your children to a person you do not want to be around because she is too toxic?

 

My dh and I had to go to counseling over this years ago. Toxic is toxic. It is horrible to expose your child to a toxic person you do not want to be around. Either go with your dh or do not send them. You should never ever send your child in to a situation you would not go in to, and even worse when you send them without you. 

[Lucy]

I've told them to let the homeschool comments roll off their back.  Not the don't tell your parents thing.  Trust me, we have talked about predators and what to do - it's well covered territory.  I tell them all the time to trust their gut and be strong.  I already said that they don't spend time alone anymore due to these comments and situations - not because I feel the kids are unsafe, but because she doesn't support our parenting choices.  I do not have any gut feeling that this relative is a predator - she just wants to be the fun one in their eyes.  Thanks all for your concern, but this is really just an issue of respect and my need to set clear boundaries.

[Leav97]

Do they have kids?  Spend the summer telling their kids, within their hearing, all about how they should be homeschooled.

 

"You really should ask to go to be homeschooled, you are missing out on so much fun."

"Your parents just don't love you enough."

"I feel bad for you - people just shouldn't be institutionalized for high school."

"You can't possible be learning all my kids are learning."

"You all should be pulled from school now, so you can enjoy your life."

[I talk to the trees]

I'd tell the relative firmly to quit, and if it continued, after the next comment from said relative I'd say something like, "Well kids, I guess that takes care of the 'dealing with a$$holes' portion of our socialization today."  Followed by a withering stare at the relative.

 

:lol: Good one!