Why is there so much hatred?

[happyWImom]

I was reading StaceyinLA's thread "My sure to be unpopular opinion-rant", and was about to post something when I discovered it was already locked. :001_smile:

 

My question is this:  When someone has a differing viewpoint on an issue, why does out and out hatred seem to follow?  That, to me is the way our culture seems today.  I realize a lot of the conflicts are over very strong social issues that people are passionate about.  I'm glad people are passionate and want to stand up for what they believe is "right".  But if someone doesn't have the exact same belief, why does it have to get violent and vitriolic? People can't seem to disagree peacefully with regards to social or political issues.

 

If someone doesn't believe in abortion, should they attack women that are leaving abortion clinics or try to blow the clinics up?  How about trying to change legislation instead?  Or organize some type of peaceful rally, protest-whatever.  

 

If someone is pro-choice, is it okay for them to fire bomb a bus belonging to a Catholic school that has "pray to end abortion" on it?

 

Politics has become so full of vicious attacks, it's hard to even follow the actual issues themselves.  I just don't understand it.  Maybe that means I'm getting old, but I just don't remember it being this bad.

[Chris in VA]

I think, when someone is really passionate about something they feel or believe, there can be a sense of almost desperate "I've GOT to do something!"

Some see what they feel is injustice, and it becomes life or death for them (and may be for others). Fight or flight is really strong, IMO.

Passionate belief can lead to justifying acts that ordinarily would not be considered.

[Mrs Mungo]

I think it probably means that you are more aware than you once were. The reasons that some people will resort to violence boggles the mind.

 

Here are just a few very random incidents of violence and rioting that came to my mind:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Cross_dispute

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-11507253

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-25338074

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/27/world/middleeast/egyptian-riot-police-attack-peaceful-protests-in-cairo.html?_r=0

[idnib]

I was reading StaceyinLA's thread "My sure to be unpopular opinion-rant", and was about to post something when I discovered it was already locked. :001_smile:

 

My question is this:  When someone has a differing viewpoint on an issue, why does out and out hatred seem to follow?  That, to me is the way our culture seems today.  I realize a lot of the conflicts are over very strong social issues that people are passionate about.  I'm glad people are passionate and want to stand up for what they believe is "right".  But if someone doesn't have the exact same belief, why does it have to get violent and vitriolic? People can't seem to disagree peacefully with regards to social or political issues.

 

If someone doesn't believe in abortion, should they attack women that are leaving abortion clinics or try to blow the clinics up?  How about trying to change legislation instead?  Or organize some type of peaceful rally, protest-whatever.  

 

If someone is pro-choice, is it okay for them to fire bomb a bus belonging to a Catholic school that has "pray to end abortion" on it?

 

Politics has become so full of vicious attacks, it's hard to even follow the actual issues themselves.  I just don't understand it.  Maybe that means I'm getting old, but I just don't remember it being this bad.

 

Are you suggesting that before this time in history people didn't use terroristic acts to accomplish political goals? Hmmm....

[happyWImom]

Are you suggesting that before this time in history people didn't use terroristic acts to accomplish political goals? Hmmm....

Ha!  Not at all, I guess I'm so aware because it is "my" time in history.

[Pawz4me]

It seems to be fairly normal or typical for every generation to think the generation behind them is going to you-know-where in a hand basket.  Likewise, I think it's normal and typical for every generation to believe that the times they're living in are worse (for hatred, crime, whatever) than things used to be, regardless of whether or not there's any factual support for that belief.  No doubt part of it is just seeing the past through rose colored glasses.

 

Whenever anyone mentions politics in this regard, I'm always reminded of the caning of Senator Sumner on the Senate floor.  Politics may be more verbally contentious than in the past (I'm not convinced that's true, just acknowledging the possibility of something that's probably difficult to measure objectively) but at least in my lifetime I can't remember any senator physically assaulting another one on the Senate floor.. ;)

[idnib]

Ha!  Not at all, I guess I'm so aware because it is "my" time in history.

 

:grouphug: 

 

It's hard, isn't it? I think it's more difficult after a person has kids and wonders about their future.

[*Lulu*]

Honestly? I think it's because today people read left- or right-leaning news outlets instead of being presented both sides to arguments in a balanced news outlet. Gone are the days of balanced reporting. When news shapes viewpoints (and I think we can all agree that it does), is it any wonder that people get so convinced of their own "right-ness"? After all, their opinion is validated by such-n-such news program/magazine/website/whatever. We feed ourselves that which validates our own opinions, get "fat" on that diet, and therefore everyone else MUST be wrong.

I don't know that the bias of news organizations is a recent development. The term yellow journalism was birthed well over 100 years ago.

[SadieMarie]

I think you have to take a long view.  I have been watching The Borgias on Netflix.  And before that I watched The Tudors.  Humanity has come a long way baby lol, even if we still have some room for improvement.

[Little Women]

I think there is a considerable amount of defensiveness.  If you say anything negative about my candidate or issue, you are attacking me, and that makes me angry.    Hence, everyone who disagrees with me must be the bad guy, or they wouldn't say such things.   

 

I think we have lost the ability to carefully parse out different pieces of an argument, to figure out which parts we agree with or disagree with, to analyse a story for what is good or bad or true or untrue about it.   We have a constant swirl of information, including a variety of statistics which may or may not be accurate, and we wind up without enough ways to sort it all out.   So we choose a person or group we generally agree with, and figure they must be right.   After that, it can become a knee-jerk reaction to whatever is said.

 

I've been an adult voter for 27 years now, and I've seen one thing over and over again:   if my guy does something, it's understandable.  If the other guy does it, it's a nefarious plot to do evil.     I've seen it go back and forth on all sorts of issues from closing Guantanamo to coercing banks to lend to bad credit risks to listening in on phone calls to taking actions that might lead to foreign wars.     We seem to choose sides as if it were a sports competition:  if I'm for the Cowboys, they are best team ever, the refs are bad, etc.....   But we do the same thing about serious issues, and it's a huge detriment to our country.

[Rosie_0801]

I don't know that apathy would be better.

[SadieMarie]

I kind of feel like we are in a period of change, big change and it is due mostly to changes in technology.  And I think if you look back you see that new technology creates huge societal/cultural changes whether it is the printing press, the steam engine or the internet.  And change is often difficult and creates tension.  OK, lecture over lol but really, I don't think that thread got all that bad, not compared to other places where you see what people are willing to write in the comment sections.  Considering how divisive an issue race has always been that was a fairly civil conversation.  I certainly did not feel hatred for anybody with whom I disagreed.  And I rather strongly disagreed with many things that were said.  

[happyWImom]

I think you have to take a long view.  I have been watching The Borgias on Netflix.  And before that I watched The Tudors.  Humanity has come a long way baby lol, even if we still have some room for improvement.

I'll have to add them to my watch list.  Hopefully, they will make me feel better about our times!

[happyWImom]

I kind of feel like we are in a period of change, big change and it is due mostly to changes in technology.  And I think if you look back you see that new technology creates huge societal/cultural changes whether it is the printing press, the steam engine or the internet.  And change is often difficult and creates tension.  OK, lecture over lol but really, I don't think that thread got all that bad, not compared to other places where you see what people are willing to write in the comment sections.  Considering how divisive an issue race has always been that was a fairly civil conversation.  I certainly did not feel hatred for anybody with whom I disagreed.  And I rather strongly disagreed with many things that were said.  

My mom is convinced the internet has ruined society. :001_smile:

[Danestress]

I am actually surprised sometimes that there is not more. Obviously we have heated and sometimes ugly national debate and discussion.   But we have relatively little political violence. 

 

Think about how much some people hated Obama, the predictions of all kinds of national ruin.  And when he won, we had a basically peaceful transition, just like we did when Bush won before him.  And when Obama won a second time, same thing.  Lots of people were very upset, but they got up the next day, and almost everyone went about their lives, without feeling the need to kill anyone over it.  If Romney had won,  I think we would have had a peaceful transition too.  It seems to me a fine thing that a nation accepts (angrily, even) a vote and moves forward - the winner's political enemies do not have to fear for their lives in the wake of an election.  Not every county has managed this historically. 

 

Yes, there is a lot of rancor. Yes, our cable news network have a lot of talking heads spouting their views, being knowingly deceptive and trying to stir up their target audiences.  And sure, there is hatred and anger.  But I actually think those things remain in the realm of talk, for the most part.  While we do have problem with crime in America, we don't seem to actually come to blows about political and social issues that often.  Even when someone is really super ugly, like Sterling and the "black are dirty and attract vermin" arguments, we seem to confine response to a lot of talking, shaming, and economic penalizing.  I don't see a lot of black people on the news stirring up hatred against whites as a response.   We just talk about what a creep he is and maybe refuse to buy tickets to his games.  No one suggests (publically, that I know of) killing him, hurting his children, burning his house down.  Even Sandusky was safe through his trial (though I am sure security was tight).  No one seem to have gone on the news suggesting that his house be burned down or his children punished for his crime.  People's sons were allegedly raped, and they waited for the court to deal with it. 

 

I also think that, despite what the news stirs up, I don't really see a lot of ugliness in daily life.  I live in a neighborhood with blacks and whites, Jews and Christians, dogs and cats and teen drivers.  It seems like we all get along fine for the most part, and when we don't there are arguments.  No one punches anyone or gets them fired or kills their dog.  They just complain to other neighbors or, in my case, complain here!

 

 

 

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Honestly?  I think it's because today people read left- or right-leaning news outlets instead of being presented both sides to arguments in a balanced news outlet.  Gone are the days of balanced reporting.  When news shapes viewpoints (and I think we can all agree that it does), is it any wonder that people get so convinced of their own "right-ness"?  After all, their opinion is validated by such-n-such news program/magazine/website/whatever.  We feed ourselves that which validates our own opinions, get "fat" on that diet, and therefore everyone else MUST be wrong.

 

I think the lack of balance plays a role, and then gets magnified by the 24-hour news cycle and the onslaught of talking head shows.  Throw in internet sites that stir the crazy with no repercussions...and well, here we are.

[NASDAQ]

Nastiness in public discourse waxes and wanes. We're probably waxing compared to, oh, 1955. But it's not the worst it's ever been, or ever will be.

 

Could be worse. The US fought a civil war not all that long ago, and then a president was shot immediately after by someone who vehemently disagreed with his politics. Anarchists at the turn of the century were notorious for blowing things up to make a point (witness The Secret Agent). My mum grew up to rioting in Oakland, so rude signs and disgruntled protesters camping out are not the nadir of political discourse.

 

Unpleasantness on the internet and cable news isn't all that bad.

[SadieMarie]

I'll have to add them to my watch list.  Hopefully, they will make me feel better about our times!

And the costumes are fabulous, worth watching just for that.

[mommymilkies]

I don't think politics is any nastier than it has ever been... it's just that we have more news coverage and at a faster speed so we hear about it more. (I think the nastiest presidential election we ever had was our first contested one - it was *nasty*!)

 

I also think hatred has decreased rather than increased and that we have more empathy across differences... we just have more work to do!

 

:iagree:  Yes, it's the old "Things were so much nicer in the past!" argument that doesn't hold water.  What we have now is a cake walk compared to many times in history.  I have a gggggrandfather who was a Tory hunter (sorry British friends) during the American Revolution.  Hatred is not a recent thing. 

I don't see much one-on-one hatred, personally. I have experienced being intimidated and spat on by a pro-lifer, but that stands out as an exception. IRL most people I know have common values that exclude acting out of hatred.

 

Disagreeing with someone, even forcefully, isn't hatred.

:iagree: I can still love people I strongly disagree with.  Hatred is such a strong word that I have reserved for a small list of people who have done me actual harm. Let's not judge a group by a whacko, too-liberal or conservative. 

[SKL]

Actually I think the use of the word "hatred" is polarizing.  Most of the time nobody is hating anyone, they just haven't got great communication / debating skills or they think they are on a short timetable to save the world.

[ElizabethB]

I kind of feel like we are in a period of change, big change and it is due mostly to changes in technology. And I think if you look back you see that new technology creates huge societal/cultural changes whether it is the printing press, the steam engine or the internet. And change is often difficult and creates tension. OK, lecture over lol but really, I don't think that thread got all that bad, not compared to other places where you see what people are willing to write in the comment sections. Considering how divisive an issue race has always been that was a fairly civil conversation. I certainly did not feel hatred for anybody with whom I disagreed. And I rather strongly disagreed with many things that were said.

I read a book called Morality and the Mail in Nineteenth-Century America by Wayne E. Fuller, if you took every instance of mail (spread of mail delivery) and changed it to Internet, it would be current. It was a really interesting book, although the writing is a bit dry.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Morality-Nineteenth-Century-America-Wayne-Fuller/dp/0252028120/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1398923802&sr=1-1

 

His One Room Schools of the Middle West was also fascinating, but dry.

[Targhee]

Complex problem, but here are my thoughts. First, individuals are often scared or threatened when people make choices/have ideas contrary to their own. Second, we no longer value (give attention to) civility, but focus on uncivil behavior (everything from day time talk show drama, to general news reporting, to anonymous online commenting). Third, we do not use reason in discussion and debate but fall to emotion and other fallacies.

[SadieMarie]

I read a book called Morality and the Mail in Nineteenth-Century America by Wayne E. Fuller, if you took every instance of mail (spread of mail delivery) and changed it to Internet, it would be current. It was a really interesting book, although the writing is a bit dry.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Morality-Nineteenth-Century-America-Wayne-Fuller/dp/0252028120/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1398923802&sr=1-1

 

His One Room Schools of the Middle West was also fascinating, but dry.

 

It looks interesting, and, yes, I see the potential for some dryness lol.  I have been trying to get through http://www.amazon.com/Land-Promise-Economic-History-United/dp/0061834815/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1398950452&sr=1-1&keywords=land+of+promise+an+economic+history+of+the+united+states and it starts with technology: new technology changes the economy, then the economic changes change social structures and culture must adapt...  I would put us in the changing culture stage now.  That is my nutshell anyway.  I am finding the book slow going though lol.

[happyWImom]

:iagree:  Yes, it's the old "Things were so much nicer in the past!" argument that doesn't hold water.  What we have now is a cake walk compared to many times in history.  I have a gggggrandfather who was a Tory hunter (sorry British friends) during the American Revolution.  Hatred is not a recent thing. 

:iagree: I can still love people I strongly disagree with.  Hatred is such a strong word that I have reserved for a small list of people who have done me actual harm. Let's not judge a group by a whacko, too-liberal or conservative. 

I feel the same way, and have friends who are polar opposite of me politically, and we either don't discuss it, or it doesn't get out of hand.  But, we have one family member who basically stated that it's not enough for us to agree to disagree, or to support her, we have to believe it too-or we don't care about her.  And it wasn't said in a nice way.  (I'm not just using my little example, I know of many other similar situations-I'm right, you're wrong, and it comes out as hatred)

[happyWImom]

Complex problem, but here are my thoughts. First, individuals are often scared or threatened when people make choices/have ideas contrary to their own. Second, we no longer value (give attention to) civility, but focus on uncivil behavior (everything from day time talk show drama, to general news reporting, to anonymous online commenting). Third, we do not use reason in discussion and debate but fall to emotion and other fallacies.

Yes!  Thank you for this comment.  You were able to somehow take my jumbled thoughts and put them into an intelligent, concise order.

[Indian summer]

I think the people who act out violently are still a tiny minority. I still see most people behaving respectfully or at least not resorting to violence.

 

As far as people being unable to have respectful conversations about differences without making personal attacks. Might this be because the schools and colleges, for the most part teach towards liberalism rather than encouraging students to see both sides. Isn't liberalism the place we are trying to get kids to in their world views. At least that was my experience at university. I'm not saying liberal views are bad, but they are only one side of the coin.

[mommymilkies]

I think the people who act out violently are still a tiny minority. I still see most people behaving respectfully or at least not resorting to violence.

 

As far as people being unable to have respectful conversations about differences without making personal attacks. Might this be because the schools and colleges, for the most part teach towards liberalism rather than encouraging students to see both sides. Isn't liberalism the place we are trying to get kids to in their world views. At least that was my experience at university. I'm not saying liberal views are bad, but they are only one side of the coin.

Yes, they're not bad but it's the fault of liberalism that respectful conversations without personal attacks aren't likely nowadays.  Gotcha. Do you watch Fox News? 

[BrookValley.]

I think the people who act out violently are still a tiny minority. I still see most people behaving respectfully or at least not resorting to violence.

 

As far as people being unable to have respectful conversations about differences without making personal attacks. Might this be because the schools and colleges, for the most part teach towards liberalism rather than encouraging students to see both sides. Isn't liberalism the place we are trying to get kids to in their world views. At least that was my experience at university. I'm not saying liberal views are bad, but they are only one side of the coin.

 

Huh? :huh:

 

[StaceyinLA]

I'm gonna admit that I have certainly been presented with one-sided views on a lot of things. After reading through my thread, I am making a conscious decision to seek out balanced news and information. I certainly have strong beliefs about a couple of issues that will probably never change, but on other issues, I believe my views have been tainted with slanted news (and I do believe that goes both to the left AND right of the political sides - the various outlets tell us what they want us to hear, what is sensational, etc.).

 

Honestly, I feel so much better just realizing that it is my responsibility as a citizen to seek the whole truth rather than just drinking the kool-aid.

 

 

[Heather in Neverland]

"Because begrudging another person's existence seems to be the most convenient way of validating your own."

 

I read that somewhere and cannot for the life of me remember where but it stuck with me.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Actually I think the use of the word "hatred" is polarizing. Most of the time nobody is hating anyone, they just haven't got great communication / debating skills or they think they are on a short timetable to save the world.

I agree!!!

 

If we call everyone who disagrees with us or have a different worldview from us "haters", then we are all haters. The fact that I disagree with you (you in a general sense) means I disagree with you; it doesn't mean I hate you; in fact, I may like you very much!

[SadieMarie]

As far as people being unable to have respectful conversations about differences without making personal attacks. Might this be because the schools and colleges, for the most part teach towards liberalism rather than encouraging students to see both sides.

 

No, it is all the conservatives refusing to listen to reason LOL.   :banghead:

[happyWImom]

I agree!!!

 

If we call everyone who disagrees with us or have a different worldview from us "haters", then we are all haters. The fact that I disagree with you (you in a general sense) means I disagree with you; it doesn't mean I hate you; in fact, I may like you very much!

:iagree:  It really bothers me when someone uses the term "hater".

[happyWImom]

Don't you think there is such division, though?  We've come so far in so many ways, but in the areas of race and "class" we seem to have stepped backwards.  For example, if someone makes a racist comment, yes it's unacceptable and they should be held accountable.  But, what about all of the people who are being accused of being racist if they don't agree with President Obama or some of his policies?  If the comments are strictly about his policies and not personal.  

 

Also, this is just another rambling thought (sorry, in a rambling mood today :D) but doesn't it seem like people are very quick to judge or label others in today's society?  I would not classify myself as a liberal or conservative, because I make my decisions based on individual issues.  Yet if I have a strong stance about one issue, it seems I am "labeled".  I'm not okay with that.  If I'm against Common Core, I must be anti-teacher or anti-union, if I believe in wildlife preservation and conservation I'm a tree-hugger, if I'm against GMO's, I'm a "Climate Skeptic of the Left" (I just read an article with this title!)

 

Why can't I (by I, I mean you, me, society) have opinions and beliefs that are varying without getting labeled?  When we do get lumped into one particular group, that seems to stir up the animosity.  

 

Okay, I've lost my train of thought now because I've been interrupted too many times to count!  I'm done with the rant.

[happyWImom]

I've been thinking more about this.

 

I still believe we have a kinder, less hateful, more tolerant society than 20, 50, 100 years ago.

 

...but what I do so as having changed is attitudes about what it is okay to talk about.

 

...we all talk about just about everything here.   ...and when we talk more, we find more differences rather than assuming everyone else shares my experience or perspective.

 

...and then too, we can get our disagreements out in words rather than actions (perhaps?). 

 

Conversation, will all its frictions and potential for hurt, is also an amazing vehicle for broadening one's perception of the world...

 

I don't see disagreement - even really vehement disagreement as hatred... and I don't see rejection of an idea as hatred either... but a chorus of passionate disagreement can feel hurtful to the one whose belief or approach is being rejected.

 

...and learning how to articulate disagreement in ways that minimize pain or shame isn't easy...

The key is being able to discus things calmly and rationally and allow for differences of opinions.  When we are reading our history lessons we enjoy looking at all different sides of some of the events, pointing out what we think is right and wrong.  I want my kids to develop reasoning skills and be able to form their own opinions based on fact gathering and deliberate contemplation.  I don't want them to just parrot what they hear from us, their friends, or television.  

[Pawz4me]

Don't you think there is such division, though?  We've come so far in so many ways, but in the areas of race and "class" we seem to have stepped backwards.  For example, if someone makes a racist comment, yes it's unacceptable and they should be held accountable.  But, what about all of the people who are being accused of being racist if they don't agree with President Obama or some of his policies?  If the comments are strictly about his policies and not personal.  

 

Also, this is just another rambling thought (sorry, in a rambling mood today :D) but doesn't it seem like people are very quick to judge or label others in today's society?  I would not classify myself as a liberal or conservative, because I make my decisions based on individual issues.  Yet if I have a strong stance about one issue, it seems I am "labeled".  I'm not okay with that.  If I'm against Common Core, I must be anti-teacher or anti-union, if I believe in wildlife preservation and conservation I'm a tree-hugger, if I'm against GMO's, I'm a "Climate Skeptic of the Left" (I just read an article with this title!)

 

Why can't I (by I, I mean you, me, society) have opinions and beliefs that are varying without getting labeled?  When we do get lumped into one particular group, that seems to stir up the animosity.  

 

Okay, I've lost my train of thought now because I've been interrupted too many times to count!  I'm done with the rant.

 

I think, for whatever reason, most humans have a great need to label things.

 

And I think the Internet has given us such an ability to communicate with so many people that it makes us want even more to label people.  It helps us to keep them in neat little understandable (to us) boxes.

 

And to go a bit further with the Internet communication thing -- Remember that even just 15 or 20 years ago a typical stay-at-home parent might not talk to anyone except his/her spouse or children during the course of a day.  Maybe a neighbor or two, or grandma/grandpa, or the cashier at the grocery store.  Even people who had full-time jobs didn't typically associate with a really wide variety of people unless they traveled a lot.  And here we all are talking to hundreds (thousands?) of people on this one message board every single day.  People from all walks of life and from many different countries.  It's understandable we're going to have more "differences" with such a broad range of people than if our contact was limited to a relatively small group of people within our own immediate community.

[Indian summer]

Yes, they're not bad but it's the fault of liberalism that respectful conversations without personal attacks aren't likely nowadays. Gotcha. Do you watch Fox News?

No, I've never seen fox news. I don't usually watch American news shows. I don't think you and I mean the same thing when we use the term liberalism. I'm not conservative either in my political views. I just meant that there's a push toward one side of the coin in a lot of institutions. And it doesn't encompass everyone's views.

 

Am I sensing some hostility towards conservatives? Is this the kind of thing op means, except without the violence? I think the whole black and white liberal vs conservative division is a part of the issue from an outsider looking in. Where I live, people generally don't care if you vote liberal or conservative, most of the time we wouldn't know how our friends or neighbors are voting. Plenty of people switch sides from one election to the next.

 

I find the US system fascinating - i can't help but wonder if the division is by design.

[Indian summer]

No, it is all the conservatives refusing to listen to reason LOL. :banghead:

Oops, I didn't mean liberal as in the political party. Sorry, I'm not American, I forget those terms mean something very different within the US.

[Mrs Mungo]

I haven't seen anyone get labelled racist because they disagree with the POTUS or his policies. However, some would like to ignore the fact that certain factions use racism to their advantage and that certain factions *are* racist. Instead of owning up to the cold stone fact that what we are talking about is racism, they would rather claim that anyone against the POTUS is crazily being labeled a racist. That is how I see it. I am talking about politicians calling him an uppity black man or political activists using the n word or political signs showing him as a witch doctor or monkey, I am talking about *actual examples of racism*.

[Denise in Florida]

I think the people who act out violently are still a tiny minority. I still see most people behaving respectfully or at least not resorting to violence.

 

As far as people being unable to have respectful conversations about differences without making personal attacks. Might this be because the schools and colleges, for the most part teach towards liberalism rather than encouraging students to see both sides. Isn't liberalism the place we are trying to get kids to in their world views. At least that was my experience at university. I'm not saying liberal views are bad, but they are only one side of the coin.

 

The teaching of 'my side good and sensible, other side evil and stupid' is not limited to either liberals or conservatives.

 

Seeking to teach students logic, reasoning and looking for the facts is also not limited to liberals or conservatives. 

 

Not sure I understand what you mean by the bolded. Who do you mean by 'we'?  homeschoolers'?,  college educated?, america'?  The sentence seems to encourage liberalism but the last sentence seems to resist liberalism.

 

Could just be me.  :tongue_smilie: Happy to discuss further if you wish.

[mommymilkies]

No, I've never seen fox news. I don't usually watch American news shows. I don't think you and I mean the same thing when we use the term liberalism. I'm not conservative either in my political views. I just meant that there's a push toward one side of the coin in a lot of institutions. And it doesn't encompass everyone's views.

 

Am I sensing some hostility towards conservatives? Is this the kind of thing op means, except without the violence? I think the whole black and white liberal vs conservative division is a part of the issue from an outsider looking in. Where I live, people generally don't care if you vote liberal or conservative, most of the time we wouldn't know how our friends or neighbors are voting. Plenty of people switch sides from one election to the next.

 

I find the US system fascinating - i can't help but wonder if the division is by design.

My father is VERY conservative, so no hostility.  I do find it irritating when everything is blamed on the "liberal media (or insert other term)" without any look at the other side, as well. 

 

Oops, I didn't mean liberal as in the political party. Sorry, I'm not American, I forget those terms mean something very different within the US.

Yes, that implies a political party here and using that is very polarizing.  

[Denise in Florida]

Actually I think the use of the word "hatred" is polarizing.  Most of the time nobody is hating anyone, they just haven't got great communication / debating skills or they think they are on a short timetable to save the world.

 

It can be polarizing and is often used to justify furthering the argument.  

 

However, in some cases 'hate' is clearly 'hate', and like the famous quote about pornography "you know it when you see it".

 

Sometimes like beauty (man I'm on a cliche roll here,  :lol: ) it is in the eye of the beholder. If some one says "this hurts, it feels like hatred when these things are said about me", I choose to err on the side of kindness and believe them.

[SadieMarie]

Oops, I didn't mean liberal as in the political party. Sorry, I'm not American, I forget those terms mean something very different within the US.

 

No problem and sorry for jumping to conclusions.  

[Denise in Florida]

No, I've never seen fox news. I don't usually watch American news shows. I don't think you and I mean the same thing when we use the term liberalism. I'm not conservative either in my political views. I just meant that there's a push toward one side of the coin in a lot of institutions. And it doesn't encompass everyone's views.

 

Am I sensing some hostility towards conservatives? Is this the kind of thing op means, except without the violence? I think the whole black and white liberal vs conservative division is a part of the issue from an outsider looking in. Where I live, people generally don't care if you vote liberal or conservative, most of the time we wouldn't know how our friends or neighbors are voting. Plenty of people switch sides from one election to the next.

 

I find the US system fascinating - i can't help but wonder if the division is by design.

 

Ok, I understand better now.  :blush:

 

Yes, most institutions (college, churches, large businesses, etc) develop a corporate culture that leans one way or the other. People who lean in the same direction as the overall culture are encouraged, and then more 'like minded folks' join in.

 

There is a common line of thought in America that all public colleges lean left (liberal).  That might be true to a degree but actual individual schools like any other institutions can lean either way.

 

Sadly, because people tend to be more comfortable in groups where everyone agrees (at least in general) there can be an unwritten code to discourage, intimidate, mock or ignore the other view points.

 

It can be blatant or subtle, but either way it can cause harm to those in a vulnerable position; student vs. teacher, employee vs. supervisor and new church member vs. old crowd. The vulnerable party then learns to fit in and the pattern repeats. 

 

When this takes place in a college it sets up bad reasoning skills for a large chunk of the population. 

 

Is this more in line with where you were going?

[Mrs Mungo]

Sometimes like beauty (man I'm on a cliche roll here, :lol: ) it is in the eye of the beholder. If some one says "this hurts, it feels like hatred when these things are said about me", I choose to err on the side of kindness and believe them.

I agree with this.

 

I had a friend who posted something on *my* Facebook timeline a couple of years ago and tagged me in it that I found offensive about my race. When I told her I found it offensive, she told me I was wrong. I unfriended her on Facebook because my family was irate that someone would post something like that at me. She just recently told another friend that I unfriended her for being a republican. People don't like the idea that *they* could be offensive or appear bigoted, so they would rather paint the offended party as sensitive or mad about something else. It is important to be willing to listen when someone tells us that we have wronged them.

[Slartibartfast]

I think there is a certain anti-academic attitude among some people. They feel their opinion holds as much weight and value as actual knowledge, facts, and education. 

 

IMO this sort of attitude impedes progress and creates hostility.

 

 

 

 

[Indian summer]

Ok, I understand better now. :blush:

 

Yes, most institutions (college, churches, large businesses, etc) develop a corporate culture that leans one way or the other. People who lean in the same direction as the overall culture are encouraged, and then more 'like minded folks' join in.

 

There is a common line of thought in America that all public colleges lean left (liberal). That might be true to a degree but actual individual schools like any other institutions can lean either way.

 

Sadly, because people tend to be more comfortable in groups where everyone agrees (at least in general) there can be an unwritten code to discourage, intimidate, mock or ignore the other view points.

 

It can be blatant or subtle, but either way it can cause harm to those in a vulnerable position; student vs. teacher, employee vs. supervisor and new church member vs. old crowd. The vulnerable party then learns to fit in and the pattern repeats.

 

When this takes place in a college it sets up bad reasoning skills for a large chunk of the population.

 

Is this more in line with where you were going?

Yes. This is exactly what I was trying to say. My ps education left me weak in debate/communication skills, so it came out wrong. ;)

[Slartibartfast]

I think there are also issues with certain media figures (of all sorts) as well as websites (of all sorts) and Politicians (of all sorts) who somehow brainwash people into believing completely irrational things. These people then venture out IN PUBLIC and make these outlandish claims. Family members, facebook friends, work colleagues or fellow website visitors react with hostility towards the insanity which is then rebutted with more insanity.

 

I think  people make quite a bit of money from crazy people so they continue this vicious cycle of craziness.

 

I have unfriended so many conspiracy nuts it is ridiculous and some of my relatives who will not SHUT IT with the insane facebook posts are ON NOTICE.

 

Recently my dad's cousin posted something crazy on FB. I mentioned how it was inaccurate and just frankly not "how things work." Then someone else told him it was true so he was all talking about how he "verified it" but it was still COMPLETELY STUPID. Now this is my dad's cousin, not my cousin so I wasn't going to be "Yer a few tacos short of a combination plate." but I still thought it. If it was someone closer to my age and I was not fond them I would have been more forthright. I haven't come up with a nice way to tell someone the link they are posting is ridiculous so I just keep saying "this is ridiculous." It persists.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mrs Mungo]

I do agree that it is a major problem for people to want rational reactions and discussions about things that are obviously insane lies/half-truths. I don't think that is a fair expectation.

[Luanne]

For some reason, when someone doesn't like someone else on here or what they are saying, instead of just ignoring that person and their posts, they choose to attack them at every turn.  Between people on here and my brother-in-law, I'd say there are a lot of immature and juvenile people out there today masquerading as adults.