Demoralized rant

[LolaT]

I had DD9 take the Singapore 4B placement test today because we're at the end of the line with RSM and I thought it would help reinforce the decision to get Singapore Math 5A for 5th grade next fall.  Also, she has to take the CC state test next week. I thought it might serve as a bit of practicel.

 

I didn't expect her to get a 100% but much to my utter dismay, she took 5.5 hrs and got less than 50%. She has not been diagnosed with any specific learning disabilities. She does have ADHD and does take a low dose of medication for that. I'm feeling pretty demoralized right now having spent the better part of my time for the past five years homeschooling her. She started off very bright and seems to be taking some steps backward this past year.   I'm feeling so bummed, at worst, I feel like I could put her in the public school system and just not think about it anymore.  I'm feeling like it wouldn't make much difference at this point. (She's not doing super stellar in other subjects either and it takes an eternity to get through just a few core subjects each day).  Today, we only did writing, went for a walk at the local gardens and a quick stop at the Museum of Ancient Life before having her do the math assessment. Not exactly the most strenuous load of work.

 

I just don't know where my mind should be at this point about this.  I can't help but feel so disappointed and again, demoralized.

[OneStepAtATime]

First,  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: .  I know this is very demoralizing and worrisome for you.  I am so sorry. 

 

I remember vividly when DD was in 2nd grade in brick and mortar we had a really bad week.  She had failed a spelling test we had studied for 7 days in a row.  She had gotten a 55 on a math test we had worked on together over and over.  Finally that week her teacher handed me a reading test she had taken.  We had studied for two weeks.  I created practice tests, flash cards, etc.  We reread the material multiple times.  We studied together every weeknight and weekend.  We had worked all year on how to take a reading comprehension test.  She got a 20.  I felt sick inside.  All those hours she could have spent being a child, playing with friends, enjoying life like a child SHOULD be doing.  And instead we had worked and worked and worked on all this material over and over, hours every day.  For nothing.  DD and her class headed off to P.E. and I stood in the hallway in shock.  I felt so helpless.  It was like the straw that broke the camel's back.  The Director of the school brought me into her office and i just started crying.  Those days are really hard as a parent.  Even though my child was in school, I felt I had failed her.  I had worked with her daily and it was obvious that what I had done was not helping.  I eventually found somewhat more effective ways to reteach the school material and it got her through with A's and B's from 2nd through 5th (for the most part), but we had a lot of demoralizing days.

 

Honestly, without more details I wouldn't have a clue if your child has learning issues that need to be addressed.  But if it were me, knowing what I do now, I would have my child assessed by a neuropsych.  Putting your dd in ps might work if she is just really bored and unhappy learning at home.  For some kids this works really well.  But honestly, that would not be my first choice unless you are certain that it really is just a bad attitude.  It doesn't sound, though, like that is the issue.  I would try getting an assessment first.  If there IS an underlying learning difference/deficit and she is put in ps, whatever gains she has now may be lost.  Most schools have huge classrooms and limited time for one on one attention.  And frequently there is limited understanding of kids who struggle.  Teachers often assume the child just has a bad attitude instead of trying to determine if there is an underlying issue.  Kids can fall further and further behind and are left feeling stupid and incapable.

 

My poor DD remained an undiagnosed dyslexic/dyscalculic with some sort of auditory processing issue until she was in 5th grade.  Even with the issues in 2nd we did not seek a diagnosis.  We just worked harder, hired tutors that didn't help and basically spun our wheels for another few years.  I found ways to reteach the material, but if I had only gotten a thorough assessment then a lot of the techniques being used by the school and frequently by me could have been changed to much more effective methods.  And when we did get an initial assessment it was through the school and was sadly useless. We wasted a LOT of time.  Once we had solid answers through a private assessor and finally picked teaching techniques that pair better with the way the kids think and learn, real progress finally started to happen.  We are still on that journey and there are days when I really worry, but for the most part things have definitely improved all over.  A thorough assessment might give you solid answers, not just about possible weak areas/learning issues, but also hidden strengths you may not even be aware of.  

 

Best wishes....

[Julie Smith]

If this helps you feel better... My son is 9, Turning ten next month. We are in Singapore 4a right now. He could not pass the 4b placement test right now, and that is not something I am concerned about. I personally don't consider him behind in a concerning way. Sure we plan to work on math in the summer, but we were planning to anyways.

[geodob]

I would ask whether 'Test Anxiety' may have been a significant factor?

[zoobie]

Test anxiety?

 

How different is the phrasing in Singapore from RSM? We use MM, but when my kids transitioned from Montessori, there was a learning curve re: format and terminology. They had the underlying skills but needed help translating what was being asked of them. They also were not used to there being a "right" and "wrong" answer. My oldest especially either gets caught up in the process or rushes to see what is next, and she makes careless errors that don't reflect her true understanding of the concept. We backed up a bit and covered familiar material so she could learn the mechanics of a more traditional math program.

 

Go back and look at what she missed and why. Was it because she didn't get the question or didn't get the concept?

[HomeschoolingHearts&Minds]

:grouphug:

My 14-year-old bombs math tests more than I'd like.  When we go over the test, we usually discover that he misunderstood the question because of the way it was asked or he made a mistake in his mental calculations (you'd think he'd show all his work after the number of times he's messed this up). 

 

I had DD9 take the Singapore 4B placement test today because we're at the end of the line with RSM and I thought it would help reinforce the decision to get Singapore Math 5A for 5th grade next fall.  Also, she has to take the CC state test next week. I thought it might serve as a bit of practicel.

 

I didn't expect her to get a 100% but much to my utter dismay, she took 5.5 hrs and got less than 50%.....Today, we only did writing, went for a walk at the local gardens and a quick stop at the Museum of Ancient Life before having her do the math assessment. Not exactly the most strenuous load of work.

 

I just don't know where my mind should be at this point about this.  I can't help but feel so disappointed and again, demoralized.

 

5-1/2 hours in one day?  That seems like a long testing session for a 9-year-old, and after writing and walking and so forth.  Or it broken up over a few days?

 

If she took the test all at once, I would redo the assessment at another time over a period of a few days (page or 2 at a time).  Most elementary kids are not going to be able to do 5-1/2 hours of testing in one day.  I would look over what she got wrong and see what kinds of errors she made.  It may be the questions were asked in a way she didn't understand (different terminology than she is used to), or that she is making careless errors, rather than not knowing the material.

[LolaT]

She has done Singapore Extra Practice before in the summers, so Singapore terms and how they present the problems are not completely foreign to her. I did sit next to her most of the time and made sure she understood the problems. I realize that taking a 5 1/2 hour test is not normal at this age or probably any age. This isn't a 5 1/2 hour test. It's probably meant to take around 45 min. I would guess. It had 27 questions.

 

She was tested for learning disabilities about a year ago by a psychiatrist recommended by her pediatrician at a time when we had tried many drug combos and he was out of ideas. The only deficit was that she had slow processing and execution. There weren't any recommendations as to how to deal with this. Most of the time, i resign myself to the fact that things will just take a lot longer and I try to "put in the time" with her, however long it may be. Breaking things up over days seems to be worse, breaking up her thought process over days. I do make sure she gets plenty of breaks, snacks, outdoor play time, etc.

 

I think what's hard to take is that she started off so bright. she was quick, remembered details, made connections between things she was learning and now, she simply does not. Do I make her work harder or simply accept it and let it be.

[OneStepAtATime]

She has done Singapore Extra Practice before in the summers, so Singapore terms and how they present the problems are not completely foreign to her. I did sit next to her most of the time and made sure she understood the problems. I realize that taking a 5 1/2 hour test is not normal at this age or probably any age. This isn't a 5 1/2 hour test. It's probably meant to take around 45 min. I would guess. It had 27 questions.

 

She was tested for learning disabilities about a year ago by a psychiatrist recommended by her pediatrician at a time when we had tried many drug combos and he was out of ideas. The only deficit was that she had slow processing and execution. There weren't any recommendations as to how to deal with this. Most of the time, i resign myself to the fact that things will just take a lot longer and I try to "put in the time" with her, however long it may be. Breaking things up over days seems to be worse, breaking up her thought process over days. I do make sure she gets plenty of breaks, snacks, outdoor play time, etc.

 

I think what's hard to take is that she started off so bright. she was quick, remembered details, made connections between things she was learning and now, she simply does not. Do I make her work harder or simply accept it and let it be.

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[MomatHWTK]

Don't measure your success by her performance. It isn't fair to the child and creates a conflict of interest between teacher and student.  Accept that she has something going on with regard to her ability to process and report information.  If you want to know what her limitations are, you will have to continue to work with her day by day and make note of her successes.  See how she best reports what she has learned, observe how she best takes in information and then conform your schooling to use these methods. 

 

 

She's only 9.  Early concepts are taught early for a reason.  If you are moving on to more complex topics and the child isn't keeping up, slow down.  Teach the child you have before you, not the one you thought you'd have.  :grouphug:

[Kevin'sMom]

What math topics are covered in Singapore 4b?

[freerange]

Could it be hormones kicking in? At around that age we had days & even weeks when it was as though everything they'd ever learnt had just fallen out of their heads.

[LolaT]

What math topics are covered in Singapore 4b?

This is a link to the actual test http://www.singaporemath.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/pmse4btest.pdf

 

 

Could it be hormones kicking in? At around that age we had days & even weeks when it was as though everything they'd ever learnt had just fallen out of their heads.

She is rather excessively emotional about nonsense things sometimes but I don't know how that could affect her to this degree.

[cornelia9805]

:grouphug:

 

It's so hard to watch your child work at something and not see good results. My recommendations are specific to my own experience with Singapore so you can take them with a grain of salt. From the research I did when I first started my then 5th grader in Singapore was that the books don't necessarily line up with grade level especially when a child is entering the program a little bit later on. For example, I started my 5th grader in 4a because she was behind in math. If she would have been right in line with her "grade level" I would have put her in 4b. Have your dd take the next lowest placement test and see how she does. If she still does poorly have her take the next lower one. If you really want her to enter Singapore it is important she is at a level that is a good fit for her. Going one lower for good review never hurts. Are you sold on Singapore? I've understood Teaching Textbooks is a good math program, especially for students who aren't particularly strong in math.

A recommendation made to me for slow processing is cutting the amount of work back. The mental exhaustion from keeping your brain going for so long doesn't allow for optimal results. By cutting work back, the child can find success and not be fatigued from a lengthy assignment.

I hope you figure something out that can best help your dd. :grouphug:

[Atilla the Mom]

I actually have a lot of experience here. My eldest is now 23, graduated from a regular college in 2012 as a history major, and is fluent in Spanish and English (post college immersion.)  She was adopted out of a central american country, and came home at nearly age 3, under the third percentile for height, and with frank evidence of protein calorie malnutrition, anatomically evident sexual molestation, chronic untreated ear infections, not yet toilet trained etc etc.  We put her into good commercial daycare for socialization purposes, and by the time she was about 3 and a half she was in the the normal range physically (not counting short stature), and was average socially. We did an awful lot of play physical and language therapy, zoos, museums, and stuff, and sent her into an Episcopalian church school kindergarten  at age 5 knowing and able to write her letters and numbers, able to count to ten, read and write her name and a few words, and knowing her colors,days of the week, seasons, common dinosaurs, common farm and zoo animals etc. etc. But even then, she couldn't learn the simplest nursery rhyme, bedtime prayer or mealtime grace despite any amount of repetition. We quickly got into the habit of never talking to her for anything more complex than "Would you like a popsicle?" without visual aids, either pointing at things, or using puppets,  picture books etc. She learned all her common fairy tales plots through videos,  puppet shows, children's theater, and playing Little Red Riding Hood with her toys. We also used Cuisinaire rods, dominoes, legos on food scales, and card games and number tiles etc. to teach her to count and to understand quantity, volume, weight and so on.

 

Kindergarten was a disaster!  She was already WAY behind the other kids - who were not particularly gifted children - and despite working like a dog with us for hours every day, was at the bottom of her class and knew it.  We got her extensively tested, audiometry, IQ, vision, audiometry, the works, and it came back pervasive developmental delay (aka mental retardation.) No formal diagnosis was actually made because I stopped the IQ testing part way  through because I could see that it would be somewhere in the 70s at best.  So did the testers.    I am a physician, and looking at the subscores, it became clear that she had a central audiotory processing disorder (phonics doesn't work if you don't have phonemic awareness, difficulty with visual processing (sight words don't work if you cant recognize word shapes), a sequencing issue (hello, if you want to count, you need to be able to sequence), ADD, and a language disorder. The only useful suggestions offered was to do Orton Gilligham and get language therapy.

 

We got the Writing Road to Reading http://www.spalding.org/index.php?tname=program book and cards, worked hard all summer and it did help, as did the language therapy which we did with both paid speech therapists and home therapy using Lindamood Bell's excellent series of books and workbooks (available on amazon.com.)  We trained a tutor in the Writing Road to Reading to work with her while we were at work, and she was, I thought exellent.  We got the headphones and shirt mike for people with trouble with background noise.   By this time it was the beginning of first grade, and we went to her school (did I mention we were also members of the church) to explain the findings (not including the IQ test), and asking that her tutor be allowed to work with her in the aftercare using the Writing Road to Reading, and that her teacher use the shirt mike, and let her wear the headphones she she could better comprehend what was being said. They refused on both, but offered their own (Friend of Principal) uncertified tutor using her own method, (which basically was reading crappy looking xeroxes of brief first grade level paragraphs, and not even reading the d*mn thing through so the kid might have an idea of what it was about), at the same cost, which was 20 dollars an hour 2 hours a day 5 days a week. This worked about as poorly as might be expected, and after a month we rebelled, and demanded that we be allowed to have our own tutor, who had previously worked with her.  They doubled down, and said that she needed to be pulled out of all her classes, except recess and PE and to work with Friend of Principal all the rest of the time. (Of course we would still be expected to pay tuition as well as for Friend of Principal's tutoring.)  We left the church and its school and enrolled her in the local public school (which was clean and safe but academically not as good.)

 

This was very helpful.  The teacher was willing to wear the shirt mike, and she fitted into the bottom of the lowest of their three regular reading groups and so she didn't feel  so completely out of it.  The sight words they expected her to learn were helpful, and writing them daily helped her learn them (her visual processing was still poor.)  She was able to work with her tutor in the aftercare, and we started working down the problem list:

 

(1) Auditory Processing and Language

 

The single BEST intervention for this, IMHO is  Fast Forward http://www.scilearn.com/products/ Two hours per day of auditory training exercises x 12 weeks during the summer before second grade and her auditory processing disorder retired from the lists defeated.  She went from not being able to hear the difference between "A bat was in the hat" and "The cat sat on the mat" (unable to differentiate between sounds < 450 ms long) to NORMAL (able to differentiate between sounds < 10 ms in length.)   She developed an auditory memory, and began singing around the house. (She couldn't remember songs, before either.)  Suddenly she had phonemic awareness, and could understand phonics, and furthermore, benefited a great deal more from her language therapy not to mention her in school instruction. We donated the headphones/shirt mike thingy to the school, and she graduated from language therapy. Other useful but less pricy interventions which we also used for  her auditory processing issue (and for her reading) were  Earobics http://www.boundlessat.com/Learning/Earobics and Read Write and Type  program http://www.talkingfingers.com/product_tour/ .  They were both great, and Read Write and Type is also good as a reading/writing program/typing program.

 

2) Visual processing and Reading

 

Once we no longer needed to invest her time in langauge therapy, we worked on visual processing.  Most of this was with a developmental optometrist, but there are some useful activities at http://www.eyecanlearn.com/ . We also did a lot of fluency drills.  Your local public school knows all about that - and btw, most public school systems do offer special education support to homeschoolers - and levelled fluency drills are also available on the internet. Google it. We were still doing Writing Road to Reading, which is also good for reading.  Writing was a weak spot, but by this time, even there, she had gone from basement level to low average by the time she finished third grade. We took advantage of a move to repeat her in third grade, and she felt more confident her second time round, and actually began to find books she could enjoy. 

 

4) Sequencing and math:

 

Done concurrently with auditory processing at age 6 . We put up a big chart of the numbers from 1-100 in a 10 x 10 array,  (printed off on my computer), and several times a day we would have her point to each in sequence and count first from 1 to 10, then from 1-20, etc until she was able to reliably count to 100 with the visual chart right there in front of her. Then we did it backwards until that smoothed out.  Then we did skip counting by 2s, by 5s, and by 10s, and started her on an adaptive computer math programs including Quarter Mile Math (which is good but boring), and another one whose name I have forgotten but was one in which you blasted asteroids with correct answers to math problems, and which adapted to you, as does Quarter Mile Math, but was NOT boring.  Eventually this nailed the sequencing issue. We did Keys to Math  before doing  Singapore Math and followed it with  Saxon math once she hit Algebra. 

 

4) Motor control and balance

 

Swimming and gymnastics seemed to work best for this. She learned to doggie paddle with a progressive swim trainer, not now available but similar to the Power Swimr Swim Float, looked forward to having one of the 12 pads removed from the vest every week, and could doggie paddle without aids by the end of one summer.  After she could doggie paddle the length of an olympic size pool (age 5) she had formal swim lessons at the Y and started gymnastics.  She learned to bike by progressing through the stages of big wheel, tricycle, scooter (which lets you learn how to balance before having to put it all together) before she got a big bike, but since we hit the decks running, she was still the youngest in her neighborhood to ride a real bike (at 6) without training wheels.  We taught her to write after she got her large muscle skills down, using the white board and markers technique, plus Draw Write Now materials http://www.amazon.com/Draw-Write-Book-Critters-Storybook-Draw-Write-Now  (since she was drawing people who looked like squashed bugs well into age 6). Motor skills were normal/superior by the time she was 6. Drawing skills were above average by age 12, after which she just had ordinary art lessons.

 

[Atilla the Mom]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

I have posted kind of a long essay on this thread, but first, if your kid seemed smart to begin with, it may be the meds.  None of the pediatric psych meds have been tested on kids for more than 18 months max. The long term effects are basically unknown, but a lot of them make kids spacey or aggressive.  ("Vitamin A")  Adderal at age 9 made my kid much smarter and more focused, but gave her headaches; Topamax for her headaches made her dumber than a rock.  After a few months, I decided to do without meds, and just dealt with it.  Adolescence was a nightmare, but we have a decent relationship at this point (age 23.)  She is still a bit scatterbrained but is basically average at this point, has finished college, is working, lives in her own place, and plans to marry in October. I'm still paying for her health insurance, invite her on vacations, and pick up repairs on her car, but I don't pay for anything else (except of course for the wedding.)

 

It sounds like your kid may have a sequencing problem, and may have some motor coordination issues.  What are you doing besides Singapore Math?  Please look up the thread to my other post and see if you recognize your kid.

[Targhee]

Mama, you're amazing - and so is DD!! You've persevered through HSing, and she through 5.5 hrs of a math test! I think after hour 2 nothing would have been a good same of her abilities - that's sooo long. And SM is a different animal! It has you thinking different than most math programs, and that alone can be hard to be tested on. When we brought DD (who is inattentive ADD) home after 3rd grade I just put her back in the 3rd grade SM (as a 4th grader) and we covered everything at the pace she needed to get it done. She works slowly (much better now on her meds) through problems and would make careless mistakes... But we went at her pace, and it took 3/4 of the year to do 3A/B, and then we started 4 and could skip a bunch if it, finished 5 in 5th, and went straight into AoPS PreA in 6th.

 

One way ADHD can be described us Executive Function disorder - and here is where we have to focus. We have to model, remind, and practice all the EF skills (still) in order for her to be successful in everything. It did help to get a full edpsych eval, discover a LD, and work with a psychologist on some issues. Perhaps that's the reason she needs to be home - to develop things that could never be developed individually and personally in school like EFs?

[kbutton]

This is a link to the actual test http://www.singaporemath.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/pmse4btest.pdf

 

 

She is rather excessively emotional about nonsense things sometimes but I don't know how that could affect her to this degree.

 

Do not rule out anxiety. Anxiety comes cloaked in many forms, including being excessively emotional. This is an age where previously minor problems often turn out to be big as well. Slow processing can make a person feel overwhelmed absolutely every minute of the day. Coupled with this exacerbation of previously minor problems, slow processing could be making her extremely anxious.

 

Slow processing and execution--you need to push to get some suggestions for dealing with it or additional testing to find out what's behind it. We are in a wait and see place with my younger son's slow processing (9th %ile for processing, but he's at least moderately gifted). The COVD optometrist can do more testing when he's a bit older, and that could be a big issue. He has red flags for auditory processing (too young for the formal testing), and there is a familial tendency toward really slow processing. It's tricky. We were told to have him play video games that require quick response times, and I do think it is helping.

 

What is RSM? Rod and Staff? Right Start? I am not sure what your abbreviation means to suggest ways to bridge the differences (in thinking or skill) between what you are using and Singapore. Using the Extra Practice books for SM may not be enough to get her into Singapore thinking. IMO, level four of SM ramps up quite a bit (though we use the IP books, which are harder than the TB and WB). You might start her back a level or partial level and/or do the IP for a level behind. If you do not understand the "how" of Singapore, you need to work on that before having her use the program. Some people need practice with this, but others pick it up quickly because it makes sense to them.

 

Breaks, changing topics...my older son does not do well with a lot of topic changing or frequent breaks either. It's much better to do about four subjects per day and do them on a deeper level. So, not every subject gets done every day. He is a slower processor, but not as slow at processing as my younger one. He's also a conceptual, top-down thinker, so it can take more time to introduce a topic. I have to stick with something until the lightbulb goes on (but once it does, it's smoother sailing).

 

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

My 9yo (10 in about a month) is about 1/3 of the way through SM 3B. She's starting to pick up speed now and I'm hoping to be in 4B sometime in the fall (we school year round). She's doing well where she's at and that's good enough for me. My goal is just that she have a very solid foundation in elementary math before we start the fun stuff in high school. :-) If that takes longer than the "average" child that's ok with me.

 

Try not to be discouraged. I've heard that 6A and 6B are mostly review so it's ok to stretch 5B to the end of 6th grade if necessary. I don't know what we'll do yet. If I feel like she needs extra practice/review, and we haven't done them yet, I may just go into 7th grade with 6A and 6B.

[Atilla the Mom]

I don't think there is any particular age at which it is inappropriate to address auditary issues, it getting it paid for. (A real problem if you are depending on insurance, which in our case paid nothing.)  My eldest kid got Fast Forword  at age 6 a year after the articles in Science and Nature came out, and as soon as it was out of the experimental phase.  (My sister was a neurologist, and I sent her to get the training, so she could supervise the program; it wasn't available otherwise where we were.) It was really tough, and the kid fought it all the way, and we had to sit next to her the entire time to redirect her when her attention flagged because of her ADD. We had this whole slew of graded positive and negative reinforcements, and a sticker chart so she could tell when she was due for prizes, and whether they were going to be small or big ones. We broke the 2 hours a day up into a bunch of 20 minute sections with breaks in between and it was still a surefire fight every day for 12 weeks. However, IT WAS ABSOLUTELY WORTH IT, and I would 100% do it over if I had to do so.  It is WONDERFUL when your 7 year old, suddenly starts learning without direct instruction, like normal kids, and starts asking abstract questions like "Why is the sky blue?"  

 

My younger child (also adopted out of central america) also had glue ears from untreated ear infections, and had only head control and a social smile when she came home at 7 months. She couldn't roll over or sit up; didn't babble until she got her tubes, and was a late speaker. When she was 1 year old, her only word was "Mickey Mouse", spoken once, and then nothing until 18 months. We were doing lots of at home Floor Time exercises http://www.stanleygreenspan.com/. However,  she got her tubes at 9 months, not at 3 years like my eldest. My second dd also had some mild issues with fine motor control, so we had to do computer mouse training games with her beginning at age 3 to get her ready for Earobics which she did at age 4. We followed that with Fast Forword and Read Write and Type.  All of it was a lot easier for her because she hadn't yet experienced failure, and so she was willing to work for m & m's; no elaborate rewards and penalties needed. (We still had to sit next to her however.) She went into Kindergarten reading and writing and doing math at the end first grade level, and able to touch type at 15 words a minute, and so unlike her poor sister, her teachers all loved her and petted her like a puppy. She got oodles of positive reinforcement and loved school.

[LolaT]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm still trying to process it and see what I can glean from it. It's improving my attitude just reading about others' experiences.

 

We did a trial run without meds last year for me to get a better idea of where her ADHD was without meds and re-evaluate the need for meds. We didn't last long. Then we tried no meds on weekends. We couldn't even do that. I do try to feed her very healthy meals and avoid high fructose corn syrup, food coloring, etc. I've started giving her supplements, a kids' multivitamin (without iron), FocusFactor, and an Omega-3 supplement to try to cover all the bases with nutrition. (Her pediatrician said vitamins were not necessary if she was eating healthy, but if her body doesn't need them, I guess it will just flush them out, right).

 

I think I will finish out RSM Level E (RighStart Mathematics) and maybe give her the assessment again. I had planned to do Singapore Math 4 Extra Practice during the summer as review and to catch anything missed. And begin SM 5A in the fall. But if the next assessment test doesn't go well, I think I will do as suggested and give her the next one down and maybe start on the previous SM level.

 

At this moment, she is taking the state required CC Writing Test. It consists of writing two essays 2-4 paragraphs each. Estimated time of test is 90 min. I know she will be there the duration of the test session, about 3.5 hrs. I told her to call me when she was done with the first essay. It's been 2 hrs. She hasn't called. I'm not surprised. I think I need to re-figure out how to take these things in order to know how to proceed with her. I know she won't do very well on this test because I didn't teach her writing in the format required for this test. (It's a new thing this year. Formulaic college style writing. I'm teaching classical style writing with copywork and dictation. Couldn't be more different). And that's OK. It's when she performs at a lower standard than where I think she is (or should be) --her own personal bar, that I become disillusioned.  Maybe I need to learn to dismiss the bad/disappointing days and just keep chugging along?  That's actually what I've trying to do. I think I've just been expecting some kind of payoff and when she did that math assessment there was no payoff and only the stark realization, we might be doing all this work for "nothing".  I guess, I don't have this quite figured out yet. But thank you for your comments, it really helps me get a better perspective on things.

[MerryAtHope]

You said she had done Singapore practice problems in the past--what level were they from? I know few neurotypical kids who would place into Singapore 4b coming from another program. SM 4 is not "4th grade" and isn't typical for 9 year-olds--I wouldn't feel demoralized at all. Unless she is regularly (daily) used to using SM and had been working level 4 problems along with RSM all year, I'd expect that SM 3 is probably the highest most incoming elementary-school-aged students would place.

 

I suspect that if you did a variety of math placement tests, you'd find she would place in very different places depending on the scope and sequence of different programs. (Case in point, when my son was 5th grade, he was using Horizons 4 but could have easily passed the placement test for Teaching Textbooks 7, but had I used a Singapore placement test, he probably would have needed to start in SM 3--and he regularly tested in the "high" and "very high" range for math on Standardized tests). 

 

Don't let one placement test get you down. Just keep teaching her at her level and moving step by step. 

[LolaT]

You said she had done Singapore practice problems in the past--what level were they from? I know few neurotypical kids who would place into Singapore 4b coming from another program. SM 4 is not "4th grade" and isn't typical for 9 year-olds--I wouldn't feel demoralized at all. ...

 

What you're saying is sounding very common sense to me today.  I think what you explained, coupled with how slowly she processes, just turned into a recipe for a monumentally disappointing outcome (for me).  I do need to re-evaluate my expectations and her abilities. It's possible, that looming state testing and friends' feedback such as "Oh, well my (very young) 2nd grader is reading at a sixth grade level and doing fourth grade level math", "Both my kids [one of which is the same age as mine and has ADHD] are getting straight A's", etc. maybe were working against me that day. I must have been thinking, surely she can get somewhere between 70-80% on this test, it will take her a bit longer, but certainly not a million hours.  

 

I do appreciate the feedback though, because each piece is helping me get into a more level frame of mind on this. I'm spending time researching different curriculum options for next year which I was all but ready to throw in the towel before.

 

----

 

Ironically, she's at the state CC math test right now. I know the session time is almost up so I will be going to pick her up though she hasn't called to say she's done yet. She exhausted the entire test session time yesterday on the writing portion and was supposed to be finishing that today too. The results won't be that telling of course since my teaching hasn't necessarily covered all common core topics and certainly not the writing methodology, but I can't dismiss it altogether either because it still does give an indication of her knowledge and ability to adapt her thinking to answer, write, and solve these questions. From looking at the sample tests, they seem quite well put together to me. It's probably a good thing, results won't be given until the fall though.

[Heathermomster]

I think you should pick a different math curriculum. I have never seen that placement test before until today...oy vey..

 

You have a child with known processing speed issues and ADHD. With respect, try to manage your expectations and teach to the child in front of you. There is a book titled How the Brain Learns Mathematics by Sousa. Maybe read it to gain a better understanding of the learning process.

 

For a child with a compromised processing speed, you need to adjust your teaching. Your child should work in shorter increments (like less than 20 minutes) and review one concept at a time. Did she use a calculator on the test? Is she typing? I would not hesitate to give her a calculator and get her typing. Is she accommodated for her state testing?

 

I'm curious to know what testing the psychiatrist actually performed. What were the numbers for the WISC-IV?

[PeterPan]

Well I'll just come in late.  

 

This is a link to the actual test http://www.singaporemath.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/pmse4btest.pdf

 

 

She is rather excessively emotional about nonsense things sometimes but I don't know how that could affect her to this degree.

This could be what others call anxiety.

 

You mentioned her timing out on the tests.  She should get time and a half because of her processing speed.  Starting giving it now, log that you needed to, and you'll have that trail when you go to the College Board asking for accommodations.

 

 

She has done Singapore Extra Practice before in the summers, so Singapore terms and how they present the problems are not completely foreign to her. I did sit next to her most of the time and made sure she understood the problems. I realize that taking a 5 1/2 hour test is not normal at this age or probably any age. This isn't a 5 1/2 hour test. It's probably meant to take around 45 min. I would guess. It had 27 questions.

She was tested for learning disabilities about a year ago by a psychiatrist recommended by her pediatrician at a time when we had tried many drug combos and he was out of ideas. The only deficit was that she had slow processing and execution. There weren't any recommendations as to how to deal with this. Most of the time, i resign myself to the fact that things will just take a lot longer and I try to "put in the time" with her, however long it may be. Breaking things up over days seems to be worse, breaking up her thought process over days. I do make sure she gets plenty of breaks, snacks, outdoor play time, etc.

I think what's hard to take is that she started off so bright. she was quick, remembered details, made connections between things she was learning and now, she simply does not. Do I make her work harder or simply accept it and let it be.

 

Nothing you're using has spiral, and it's very possible she would benefit from some spiral to build proficiency.

 

I 2nd the suggestion to look at the meds and see if you missed indications of APD as well.  

 

Another aspect to making connections is time and mental energy.  They need down time to read and explore and make connections the way they do.  The material is getting more complex, so the time needed to make more complex connections is increasing.  It was easy when the material was limited.  Now she's going to need more time.  I've literally given my dd the entire YEAR to read about the Holocaust.  I'm not sure how your day looks, but she may need more down time.  If you keep her formal school work to 3 hours a day, that will leave her 2 hours a day for reading and plenty of time and energy for creating.

 

It took me a long time to realize that the inverse and positive side of all this is that DOERS WANT TO DO.  When I finally set her up with stuff she could really DO, and trimmed everything and got it fast and more independent (all features she wanted based on her personality, your dd's may differ), she took off.  Yes my dd has Mary Poppins days where nothing happens and she can't focus.  Yesterday she cleaned her bedroom and bathroom and did some decorating because she was Mary Poppins.  That happens.  We just move on because we know overall she WANTS to do her work and CAN with the way it's structured.

 

Is this the first time you've done testing?  For a number of years I supervised my dd highly.  Did the psychiatrist run the WIAT or other achievement testing to compare to her WISC?  Those achievement scores would give you a sense of whether the current testing you're doing is getting unexpected results.  

 

Btw, these kids are not typically ever going to be stellar at computation.  At some point you stop freaking out about it, hand them a calculator, and move on.  I mean you could literally sit there and do computation FOREVER with my kid and she's not going to test as awesome.  Her conceptual understanding is strong and her ability to apply to word problems is good.  She's just not going to blow through computation tests.

 

Are you planning on taking off math for the summer?  I never recommend that, lol.  Congrats on finishing RS E!!  We found the BJU math was very similar conceptually and a good transition for us from RS.  Honestly it's tricky coming out of RS E, because you're not going to seem to fit anywhere.  You might find she could go into a BJU 4 or 5 text without a problem.  You might try doing some fun spiral review with TT this summer.  Literally just use the placement tests to pick a spot and do it double pace just to get her faster.  Then go into your more conceptual program in the fall.  It's not so much that you did something wrong as that there are seasons to math and different things you can focus on.  You can focus on conceptual or spiral or complex word problems or logic or...  So you've focused on one thing for a while, and maybe now you balance out and get a different focus.  That's ok!  What she did was GOOD.  

[kbutton]

We found the BJU math was very similar conceptually and a good transition for us from RS.  Honestly it's tricky coming out of RS E, because you're not going to seem to fit anywhere.  You might find she could go into a BJU 4 or 5 text without a problem.  You might try doing some fun spiral review with TT this summer.  Literally just use the placement tests to pick a spot and do it double pace just to get her faster.  Then go into your more conceptual program in the fall.  It's not so much that you did something wrong as that there are seasons to math and different things you can focus on.  You can focus on conceptual or spiral or complex word problems or logic or...  So you've focused on one thing for a while, and maybe now you balance out and get a different focus.  That's ok!  What she did was GOOD.  

 

 

I think the idea of using the summer to review/fill any gaps in methodology, skill, etc. is a great idea.

 

I wish I knew more about what content Right Start covers in a level to give more specific suggestions, but Elizabeth is right about needing time to process and cement. You might need to slow down to go faster in the long run. If you do decide to place her in Singapore in the fall, I have used levels 3 and 4 if you have questions about the program (US Edition). With level 4, we've been using the IP, but I didn't know what that was when I did level 3. The IP is what has given us that marinating--it hits the same concept several ways. Most people use it back one level. If you can find something that helps her marinate but not just pump out more computation, that would probably really help. My son does better with more ways of looking at something, not simply more of the same computation, but he's going to be using a calculator later on.