Weird sensory issue

[sdobis]

My 10 year old daughter seems to have very mild sensory issues, but a strange one seems to have popped up over the past school year. She told me that writing with pencils makes her teeth hurt. I now reluctantly let her write everything in pen. Next year, I will buy erasable pen to make corrections easier.

This makes art, her favorite subject difficult because she won't use colored pencils; only crayons.

Has anybody heard of this before?

[Plink]

We've got a lot of wacky sensory issues here, but, nope, I've never heard of that one.

Long shot- Is she having sinus issues? My sensory kid often complains of tooth pain when her sinuses act up, and she doesn't like any vibrations at all during allergy season for that reason. Although, I have to admit that the vibrations of pencil have never affected her.

[Lecka]

Is it the scratching noise?  I notice it when I am using a pencil on a hard surface, but it is better if there is something a little soft (like a folder).  It is also better when the pencil is slightly dull. 

 

Could she be clenching her jaw because it is more difficult to use a pencil?  A lot of kids just have an easier time with a pen or marker or crayon, they slide more easily. 

 

I bet she might use pastels or markers.  And if it is the scratching, maybe you can try different things with writing surfaces.  Sometimes a particular pencil or style of paper can be very scratchy, too. I am actually picky about this as an adult ---- but also able to find plenty of combinations that work for me. 

 

 

 

[wapiti]

At least enchiladas don't make her legs hurt, as they do for ds.  Or so he likes to say.  When they are baking.   :glare:

 

Eta, kidding aside, I don't remember if I've heard about teeth hurting from writing with pencil, but it's plausible to me that there could be clenching or other force being employed within the body during writing with certain amounts of pressure.

[sdobis]

No sinus issues. I don't think it's clenching because it's immediately after she starts writing. I think it's the vibration. She will reluctantly use a mechanical pencil because it's smoother than a wooden pencil. She won't even touch them. I like the idea of using pastels for art. I haven't thought of that. She's not a big fan of markers as well.

[kbutton]

WARNING: A little known side affect for SPD is "out of the box" thinking manifested not by the sensory sensitive child, but by the parent of the sensory seeking or sensory averse child. Out of the box thinking is an under appreciated compensation mechanism that develops around the need to understand the individual, and at times, incomprehensible, nature of the reactions produced in sensory sensitive individuals. Out of the box thinking improves the lives of many frustrated children and parents around the world, but as yet, it is not recognized, in this context, as a marketable skill except perhaps in niche markets targeting sensory sensitive individuals. In a school environment, out of the box thinking may be mischaracterized as helicopter parenting, excuse-making, rationalization of problem behavior, or common sense, depending on the educator interpreting the parent behavior. As a result, out of the box thinking is highly flammable in certain instances--exercise caution in using out of the box thinking in unfriendly environments.

 

Tongue firmly in cheek here, folks. I am too tired to come up with a better clinical term than "out of the box thinking (so overused!)." I am enjoying the thought process in this thread that you've all used to explain why the pencil is a problem (been there myself, many times!), and this came to mind. Carry on.

[Lecka]

I might not rule out clenching, just b/c she complains early.  If she has had it be uncomfortable a few times, she will have that association pretty early in writing.  So she could be saying it early, b/c she knows from experience it will start. 

 

Or not -- but my son has things like that. 

[sdobis]

I might not rule out clenching, just b/c she complains early. If she has had it be uncomfortable a few times, she will have that association pretty early in writing. So she could be saying it early, b/c she knows from experience it will start.

Or not -- but my son has things like that.

I never thought about it that way. She's always hated to write. I just asked her again why she prefers pens. She told me that pens have a smoother tip and pencils are "scrapey". She said she doesn't like the sound they make either. I wonder if the sound (maybe like nails on a chalkboard) make her teeth hurt.

This child never ceases to confuse me!

[IsabelC]

I don't know what this sensitivity is called, but I have it! I detest writing with pencil, and also prefer "softer" pens to biros / ballpoints. It's the "scratchy" texture, and feeling of friction. It's a milder version of the pain when somebody is sharpening a knife on a sharpening stone, which I literally can't stand. Anything scratchy or with excessive friction is uncomfortable, and I also get a whole body reaction to using a touchpad mouse instead of a clicky one.

 

I don't have any great advice, just confirming that the sensory issue does exist ;)

[Julie of KY]

My son says pencils give him the same reaction as chalk on a chalkboard. He only uses pen. The only time he uses a pencil is for AMC/AIME competitions where he does his work in pen and then uses a pencil to bubble his answers.

I feel for her if not being able to use pencils affects her drawing. I have a daughter that loves to draw with pencils.

[clemota]

You're not alone! 

 

DD11 HATES scratchy pencils - she prefers gel pens over a scratchy pencil - this includes when others in the room are using one, not just for her own use.

 

There is a slight difference in pencil brands, we've discovered: USA Gold and Ticonderoga make slightly less scratchy noises than the cheap ones from Staples or Target.  And they are much smoother to write with than those cheap colorfully-printed ones that find their way into our house.... :glare:

 

For DD it's a sound AND feeling thing, but it's enough to throw her off for a while so we do our best to accommodate her.  She types most of her assignments now, so pencil use is limited to the occasional math problem or quick outline.

 

Would using dry-erase markers on a white board be helpful?  DD 11 likes doing math problems that way - easy to erase mistakes, and smooth to write with. 

 

Lots of artists draw with pen and ink - without sketching in pencil first.  Maybe you can find a book about that technique, or give her some fancy-colored gel pens to explore with?  Just a thought.

 

[IsabelC]

Oh, by the way, another tip for drawing: try color pencils that are designed for watercolor. They're the ones where you are meant to draw your picture and then go over it with a brush dipped in water, but you can just use them for regular, dry pencil drawings, and they are super smooth compared to normal colored pencils.

[sdobis]

You're not alone! 

 

DD11 HATES scratchy pencils - she prefers gel pens over a scratchy pencil - this includes when others in the room are using one, not just for her own use.

 

There is a slight difference in pencil brands, we've discovered: USA Gold and Ticonderoga make slightly less scratchy noises than the cheap ones from Staples or Target.  And they are much smoother to write with than those cheap colorfully-printed ones that find their way into our house.... :glare:

 

For DD it's a sound AND feeling thing, but it's enough to throw her off for a while so we do our best to accommodate her.  She types most of her assignments now, so pencil use is limited to the occasional math problem or quick outline.

 

Would using dry-erase markers on a white board be helpful?  DD 11 likes doing math problems that way - easy to erase mistakes, and smooth to write with. 

 

Lots of artists draw with pen and ink - without sketching in pencil first.  Maybe you can find a book about that technique, or give her some fancy-colored gel pens to explore with?  Just a thought.

I like the idea of a whiteboard for some school work. We used to do this, and she loved it. I don't know why we stopped. I will definitely look into art techniques that use pen.

[sdobis]

Oh, by the way, another tip for drawing: try color pencils that are designed for watercolor. They're the ones where you are meant to draw your picture and then go over it with a brush dipped in water, but you can just use them for regular, dry pencil drawings, and they are super smooth compared to normal colored pencils.

 

I haven't heard of these before. I'm headed to Hobby Lobby tomorrow, so I'll look for these. Thanks for another great idea.

[geodob]

The sound frequency of pencil on paper, is quite likely in the same frequency range as nails on a chalkboard.

Though something that I would note, is that sound is actually transmitted through our bones, with what is called 'bone conduction'.

 

So that what I wonder, is if it's not the sound of pencil on paper, as heard through the ears, is the problem?

Rather that she is hyper-sensitive to the bone conduction of sound?

Though perhaps you could try something to test this?

Rubber is a 'dampener' of vibrations.

So maybe you could get some 'rubber bands', and then wrap them around a pencil.  

Along the part of the pencil, that contacts the hand.

But don't wrap them too tight around the pencil.

Then have her write or draw with the pencil, and see if it eliminates the problem?

[Lecka]

Ticonderoga pencils are also a preferred brand for me.  I will keep an eye out for USA Gold ---- good to know if I need some and don't see Ticonderoga, lol.  I cannot stand erasable pens --- the ones I have used do not write smoothly and I have to press down too hard.  I also hate the act of erasing with them. 

 

For corrections in writing, I always use proofreading marks (the squiggles and carrot tops), it is easier than erasing. 

 

If I have to use an eraser ---- I do better with a separate eraser, I can like the white ones.  I do not like pink erasers and I never like an eraser on the back of a pencil or pen (though I can use a pencil one). 

 

You could also try pencil grips, if a rubber band would decrease vibrations a pencil grip might also.

 

But, I also have a dislike of writing with things that are "too smooth."  I like rubber bands (I have never put them on ---- but we had a stash of them from my older sister when I was a kid).  I like things that are textured or have some nubby place or that I can hold towards the bottom and feel the edge. I do like rubber bands, too, though.  There are more "pretty" options though, too. (I have/had an idea like rubber bands are for boys and pretty pencil grips are for girls ---- I would not have used a rubber band at school for that reason.  I also thought my sister was tomboyish, I also wanted to be different from my sister..... whatever, I have a stupid prejudice there.)  (Also ---- for me, it doesn't solve the problem.  It is better, but there is still a noise.  Especially a very sharp pencil on a hard desk, and especially on certain kinds of paper ---- it is so loud and it is so scratchy, and it the pencil ever slides across the paper it makes a horrible, horrible noise.) 

 

Another tip --- my little son does well with dry-erase markers on a page protector.  He is doing things like Handwriting Without Tears pages, it is easy on him and he can practice the same page. 

 

Also, I do think a lot of things are easier for me writing on top of a binder, the kind of binder that has a plastic over-liner thing (like -- where you could slide a piece of paper in the front of the binder).  Not the ones that are hard.  There are a lot of things that work for me.  I cannot stand to write on just a desk with nothing under the paper.  I think it reduces the noise for me.

 

I am not sure, but I think it is about the noise for me more than the sensation.  But I am not sure I can separate it all out.  I just know there are things I do not like.   

 

I am going to keep watercolor pencils in mind, too. That is good to know!  I do like pastels, too.  They are a joy to me. 

 

Oh, I also like heavier pens.  My step-dad has some special pens made for people with arthritis, they are heavy and bigger than other pens, and well-balanced, and I do like them.  I like lighter pens, too, I just like certain ones. 

[Just Another Jen]

We had to switch to mechanical pencils. My 8 yo says regular pencils make a noise. He also has issues with paper- we've trashed entire workbooks based on the slickness, or thickness of the pages.

[Lecka]

Imo the reason mechanical pencils are better is they don't get "too sharp" from being sharpened.  They are always kind-of dull.  They never have a point . If you write in a way that you get a sharp point, you can just break it off and have a kind-of dull tip again. I think the too-sharp points are scratchiest.

[IsabelC]

Yes definitely! I have spd and I have the opposite deal: I can't write with things that are too smooth. I need to feel the drag and hear the noise to be comfortable writing. So I prefer, for example, writing on a chalkboard rather than a white board. And big, thick pencils over pens.

 

Wow, that's really interesting. I never imagined anyone could prefer the feel of chalk to whiteboard markers. Although I do know someone who reacted badly to the smell of the markers (she was really smell sensitive, as in she couldn't stand being near somebody wearing noticeable perfume or aftershave).

[IsabelC]

So how come I like textured sheets and dislike satin sheets, whereas I need smooth writing implements? Is that normal (well, normal for people with sensory issues lol) to be sensory seeking with some things and avoiding with others?

[clemota]

So how come I like textured sheets and dislike satin sheets, whereas I need smooth writing implements? Is that normal (well, normal for people with sensory issues lol) to be sensory seeking with some things and avoiding with others?

 

Yes, absolutely! 

 

DD has both: she cannot stand to wear any shirt or dress that has embroidery, seaming or anything else that "pokes" her on her skin.  But she sleeps better at night with a weighted blanket. 

 

Shoes and pants are better when they are slightly tight. But shoes cannot have "bumps" in the on the inside where the two pieces of leather meet.  And socks need to have little to no seam.

 

FWIW, we did the Wilbarger Brushing Protocol with her and it made a huge difference in what she could and couldn't tolerate in both directions.  But it doesn't help with the pencil issues, which seem to be more auditory.

[Dmmetler]

It's pretty normal for people to be mixed-DD is both a sensory seeker when it comes to the moving, bouncing, swinging type stuff, but if it's touching her, it needs to be smooth, and sound, unless she's the one making it, really bugs her. And it can be pretty tiny sounds.

 

On sound, there are CDs you can get from an OT that help reduce sound sensitivity-they have target sounds masked by music. DD hated them with a passion, but they did seem to help quite a bit. Although I think when she's grown up, she needs a house with 100% hard floors, because I don't know that she'll ever be able to vacuum. (Seriously, the kid used to go into outright panic attacks when she saw a vacuum on display in Target because the sound of one hurt her so much, and she could hear a hotel housekeeper vacuuming two floors down. At this point, her being able to tolerate a vacuum running in a different room is a major improvement!).

 

 

[clemota]

On sound, there are CDs you can get from an OT that help reduce sound sensitivity-they have target sounds masked by music. DD hated them with a passion, but they did seem to help quite a bit. Although I think when she's grown up, she needs a house with 100% hard floors, because I don't know that she'll ever be able to vacuum. (Seriously, the kid used to go into outright panic attacks when she saw a vacuum on display in Target because the sound of one hurt her so much, and she could hear a hotel housekeeper vacuuming two floors down. At this point, her being able to tolerate a vacuum running in a different room is a major improvement!).

 

We did these as well - for both DD and DS.  We were never able to take the kids to the movies when they were younger, because the volume was just too much for them (and yeah, they are REALLY loud, so I know it's not entirely my kids' problem).  But noises that I am able to filter out normally were driving both kids crazy: the woodpecker on the tree outside, the washing machine going in the garage, even the fridge was sometimes the culprit.

 

Now DS is able to tolerate going to the movies, and DD can do it if she uses earplugs there.  And those minor sounds they are able to filter out for the most part.

 

But it's still a bad day when they guy across the street from us decides to work on his car - I dunno what tool it is he's using, but it is loud and whiny.  And it sets the tone for the rest of the day for DD.

 

And all of my kids hide at the other end of the house when I need to vacuum, although DS did actually use the vacuum on his own when he was cleaning out his room - that was a HUGE deal for us!  And not just because a teenage boy was voluntarily cleaning his room! :laugh:
 

[Tiramisu]

I had to jump into a sensory thread.

 

We have had lots of problems with writing instruments because of the feel of them, though we haven't had the auditory sensitivity with them that the OP describes.

 

Youngest dd gets "tingly" when she works "too much" (too much? really?) and describes a squishy feeling in her hands that is unpleasant to her.

 

And while I'm here with sympathetic sensory friends, can I complain again that she only wears one outfit? If I wasn't old and tired this would frustrate me much more, but as it is, I'm weary and just tell myself someday I will laugh about it. The good thing about being through this more than once is knowing that she probably will grow out of it, and the good thing about getting old is that I just don't care that much about what people think. I'm just glad that she's now wearing a pair of pants without rips in both knees like the last pair she used to wear everyday and the shirt isn't ripped like the last one and her feet don't stink anymore. ETA: She's actually a rather nice, normal kid otherwise, very creative and lots of fun.

[mommymonster]

I don't know what this sensitivity is called, but I have it! I detest writing with pencil, and also prefer "softer" pens to biros / ballpoints. It's the "scratchy" texture, and feeling of friction. It's a milder version of the pain when somebody is sharpening a knife on a sharpening stone, which I literally can't stand. Anything scratchy or with excessive friction is uncomfortable, and I also get a whole body reaction to using a touchpad mouse instead of a clicky one.

 

Me, too! In addition to pencils *freaking* my system out, I can't stand paper with any texture (like construction paper or newspaper). If I have to touch textured paper with a pencil, I get nauseous. It's fabulous trying to help my DS5 with his "art" projects. 

 

I can't stand eraser pens, so I have resorted to crossing things out neatly. And typing everything. 

[prairiewindmomma]

---

[Sambam]

I’m an adult and I can confirm this is a real thing. My teeth still hurt when I hear pencils on paper friction noise :(. It wasn’t with me at your age ( I believe it started when I was about 14 years old )

[jengal917]

I have had this since I was a kid, I remember I couldn't wait until 5th grade when we could use pen. I still have trouble writing in pencil, it feel like nails on a chalkboard, I am wondering if it is undiagnosed sensory processing issue but nothing comes up fitting the bill. I have discovered that I am a Highly Sensitive Person, may want to look that up.  That's great that you are looking for alternatives. Good news is I am 30years old and I am a practicing artist, so she is not doomed. I do prefer crayons to color pencils. Good luck :) Also she may like to learn playing string instruments like violin and cello, because that sort of stuff is the opposite, feels so good to play or listen too. I think it may be just extreme tactile, audio sensitivity. 

[jengal917]

On 4/4/2014 at 4:13 AM, sdobis said:

Oh, by the way, another tip for drawing: try color pencils that are designed for watercolor. They're the ones where you are meant to draw your picture and then go over it with a brush dipped in water, but you can just use them for regular, dry pencil drawings, and they are super smooth compared to normal colored pencils.

 

I haven't heard of these before. I'm headed to Hobby Lobby tomorrow, so I'll look for these. Thanks for another great idea.

Good idea!

[ieta_cassiopeia]

Perhaps one sense is being experienced as another (synaesthesia)? Accommodation is your best course here; previous posters have proposed many good ideas for helping with this.

[Dan]

Hello i actually have the same issue. I remember it starting in 3rd grade. Mainly the sound a pencil makes and somewhat the feel of it. I used pens my entire life and dreaded when teachers had tests that you were forced to use #2 pencil :(. I found that a very thin point mechanical pencil kind of helps….. but not really. 

[kbutton]

Zombie thread

[Kathleen Welch]

On 4/3/2014 at 2:32 PM, sdobis said:

My 10 year old daughter seems to have very mild sensory issues, but a strange one seems to have popped up over the past school year. She told me that writing with pencils makes her teeth hurt. I now reluctantly let her write everything in pen. Next year, I will buy erasable pen to make corrections easier.

This makes art, her favorite subject difficult because she won't use colored pencils; only crayons.

Has anybody heard of this before?

 

[Kathleen Welch]

My grandson who is seven also he has the exact same issue I was googling  sensory  pencils and can’t find anything to help

[Rosie_0801]

4 minutes ago, Kathleen Welch said:

My grandson who is seven also he has the exact same issue I was googling  sensory  pencils and can’t find anything to help

Please start a new thread. This one is years old.