Is anyone here a nurse or familiar with nursing? Dd may want to go into it-have a few questions!

[HappyGrace]

Thanks for taking a minute! We're just at the beginning of trying to research and consider options. What is the current climate in the nursing world-do you feel is it a stable field to go into? I assume we don't know yet about the effects of Obamacare, etc.-has there been any talk about how this could affect things?

 

Is it enough to get an RN? A friend said the RN is not a bachelor's degree though, is that right? Does that matter? To do well in the field, would it be better to go further, and if so, what is "further" in the nursing world? I know there is nurse practitioner-what else is there and what is your opinion of those options? (I realize she may figure out a more specific direction once she gets into clinical work and sees what types of nursing she likes best, but we're just generally at this point trying to see what schooling paths there are.)

 

The community college here has a good reputation in the area for their RN program (there is a waiting list), so we thought maybe dd could start it in her senior year of college and have that count as both high school and college, and it would be very economical. Does a community college look bad though if she wants to go on in nursing education?

 

How much math is required during college for RN (and beyond, if you know)? Dd is generally a stellar student, but math is NOT her strong suit. (the community college only requires completion of Algebra I, but we would still have her do more than that during the next couple years in case things change-she is 14)

 

Please feel free to add any comments, tips, etc beyond what I have asked. We are interested in learning as much as we can about this!

[umsami]

Definitely get the BSN at minimum, it's becoming the standard.  There are some programs that offer direct entry into a Master's (now usually a Doctorate DNP) level nurse practitioner program.  Have a neighbor's daughter who did that and is a certified nurse midwife at 23.  Great career ahead of her.

 

If she does the RN at a community college, there are a lot of BSN completion programs out there.  

 

As for the Affordable Care Act as well as just the dynamics of healthcare, becoming a nurse practitioner would be where I'd be leaning.  There will be more and more need for them as well as PAs.  

 

Check out these boards regarding Nursing www.allnurses.com 

[Dory]

My aunt, mom, and one cousin are RN's and I have another cousin that is an LPN. I would advice my dd to get a BSN if she is planning on nursing anywhere besides in the north. Up here RN's and LPN's are paid a premium as an incentive to keep nursing staff up here. As the world changes though, I think that RN would be inadequate.

[Twigs]

If she goes the route of community college RN, some employers will offer tuition assistance to complete a bachelors.

 

Also, she will need to take A&P. I strongly suggest working through a Medical Terminology workbook before tackling A&P. See these threads here for more info on Med. Term.

 

For math, she will need algebra in chemistry. Unit conversions are extremely important. Statistics may not be required, but is very helpful.

 

Best wishes.

[Momof3littles]

I always mention to anyone interested in nursing to also consider whether they might have an interest in allied health positions, like becoming a PT, an OT, or SLP.  There is a considerable amount of autonomy in those positions.   For PT, most programs are now DPT, so the time involved is fairly extensive.  A master's is needed for all 3 to obtain licensure.  There are also physical therapist and occupational therapist assistant positions if she doesn't see herself pursuing graduate school.  I  have had several friends and family members interested in nursing, and I encouraged them to also job shadow/observe if possible in the allied health fields, preferably in more than one setting, because day to day is very different in outpatient pediatrics vs. a skilled nursing facility.  IME, people are a litlte more familiar with PT and SLP, but many don't really understand occupational therapy and assume it is more like "work hardening" (which is frequently handled by physical therapists not OTs).  I didn't really grasp all that OTs did/do until I was well into graduate school as a physical therapist, TBH.  What they do day to day in something like pediatrics is very different than many people might imagine when they hear "occupational therapist."

 

In those fields it is possible to work in outpatient private practice, pediatrics, early intervention, skilled nursing, schools, hospitals, rehab, etc.  They might see ICU patients, work with amputees or those with spinal cord injuries, infants, the elderly, etc.  There are many options.

 

Ditto to the PP who suggested looking into NP or PA if those are of interest.

 

If she has any interest in PT, OT, etc. PM and I may be able to help her with more specifics.  For PT when I attended, stats and calculus were required, as well as math-heavier courses like chemistry and physics.

[Stratford]

The nice thing about being an RN is that there are many ways of getting a degree.  While I would strongly recommend a BSN, a very economical route would be to get an RN through the community college and then complete an RN to BSN program (usually only around 30-40 credit hours, many are online programs, and most hospitals will pay for completion of this program for their employees.)  A community college is a great place to start.  The term "RN" is confusing sometimes.  It refers to the nursing license; there are different education tracks to get a license (bachelors, associates, diploma.)  While most RNs start out in the same place, the ability to further your career is limited without at least a BSN. 

 

As far as advanced degrees go, experience is invaluable, both in completing those types of programs and deciding what track to take.  I wouldn't decide without having some experience under my belt.  You can go the advanced practitioner route (NP, nurse anesthetist), you can go into management, into teaching, either in nursing school or in a clinical specialist role within a healthcare organization.....there are lots of places to go! 

 

My advice would be to try to arrange some shadowing experiences for your daughter.  I went into nursing school with only a basic understanding of what nurses actually DO.  I did volunteer in the hospital back home for several years, which was helpful.  While in school I worked as a nursing assistant, also helpful.  Nurses work in such a wide variety of settings, it really is beneficial to visit some of those areas before committing to school. 

[IdahoHomeschooler]

Thanks for taking a minute! We're just at the beginning of trying to research and consider options. What is the current climate in the nursing world-do you feel is it a stable field to go into? I assume we don't know yet about the effects of Obamacare, etc.-has there been any talk about how this could affect things?

 

Nursing is a very stable field for RNs. I would discourage becoming a vocational nurse (LPN or LVN), unless it is on the way to becoming a RN. The Affordable Care Act doesn't affect the job security of nurses, it just makes our jobs a bit more complicated.

 

Is it enough to get an RN? A friend said the RN is not a bachelor's degree though, is that right? Does that matter? To do well in the field, would it be better to go further, and if so, what is "further" in the nursing world? I know there is nurse practitioner-what else is there and what is your opinion of those options? (I realize she may figure out a more specific direction once she gets into clinical work and sees what types of nursing she likes best, but we're just generally at this point trying to see what schooling paths there are.)

 

Bachelors degrees will be mandatory in a few years, for new grad RNs. Already, their are many hospitals that give preferential hiring to BSN degrees. I am hoping to skate by on my associates degree, because I have no interest in further nursing studies. I may be forced to pursue the degree, or get out of nursing altogether in the future. Nurse practitioners now require a PhD. In my opinion, if someone is interested in medical, they should just go ahead and pursue an MD or DO. They are already putting in the time and money, might as well have the status and pay grade to reflect it. I will say, also, that the nurse practitioners ARE affected by the Affordable Care Act, and not in a positive way. I can see a trend away from hiring them in the future, as their practice is not as independent as it once was. Physician Assistants have even less autonomy than nurse practitioners, I've been told. way.

 

The community college here has a good reputation in the area for their RN program (there is a waiting list), so we thought maybe dd could start it in her senior year of college and have that count as both high school and college, and it would be very economical. Does a community college look bad though if she wants to go on in nursing education?

 

This would be variable based on the transfer institution. As a whole, though, nursing tends to pretty flexible and accommodating towards various pathways of entry.

 

 

How much math is required during college for RN (and beyond, if you know)? Dd is generally a stellar student, but math is NOT her strong suit. (the community college only requires completion of Algebra I, but we would still have her do more than that during the next couple years in case things change-she is 14)

 

This would, again, depend on the institution. Generally, though, math past Alg2 would be fairly common. I would *AT LEAST* do Alg2 at home, but ideally pre-calculus. I can say that nursing is a job where you use algebraic math every.single.day. You certainly don't have to be a math genius, but a good understanding is incredibly helpful. Higher math is also needed in the classes that are necessary for nursing school entry, like chemistry and statistics.

 

Please feel free to add any comments, tips, etc beyond what I have asked. We are interested in learning as much as we can about this!

 

If it were my daughter that was interested in pursuing nursing, I would encourage her to look into other medical areas as well, such as ultrasound or physical therapy. I would also discourage her from starting a program on the younger side, unless she was very mature. In nursing, you run the risk of being physically and verbally assaulted. You take care of criminals, pedophiles, drug addicts, etc. You see people die, you see people grieve, you see people that are angry and lash out. You basically see a lot of people at their worse. I would want my child a little bit older before having to face this stuff, but your mileage may vary, and certainly there are plenty of younger nurses capable of handling these things.

 

I would also encourage volunteering in a hospital to get a feel for what the job entails. If there is a possibility of job shadowing a nurse, then definitely do that. Look into other professions like speech, occupational, or physical therapy. Look into medical or osteopath schools. Look into veterinary medicine. There are so many other amazing options out there.

 

[Excelsior! Academy]

My dd is interested in nursing also.  This is a great thread!  She was advised to not consider anything less than a 4 year degree.

[history_junkie]

I have two friends who are 2012 and 2013 grads who are in their first nursing job. Here in Ohio, it is becoming a requirement to have a BSN. I believe the deadline may be as soon as 2015. Both were able to find jobs within a few months of graduation, but not necessarily in their preferred area. 

[Stuart]

Most places in our area are requiring a BSN. Applicants with Associates it Technical degrees are not being considered. Coming right from high school go with a 4 year program it will provide a better outcome. I would encourage her to get a CNA license so she can have a well paying job through school. Weekend and Holidays pay well.

[Jeannie in NJ]

my dd will be starting at Villanova College of Nursing in June.  She will be transferring in 40 plus credits from our local community college so will have her BSN in 2 1/2 years and then wants to go to graduate school to become a nurse anesthetist.  THe only math required is Statistics and the min (Algebra ?) that is required to take Chem 1 and Chem 2

[ocelotmom]

Agh, just wrote a long reply and the server ate it. Bad server.

 

Thanks for taking a minute! We're just at the beginning of trying to research and consider options. What is the current climate in the nursing world-do you feel is it a stable field to go into? I assume we don't know yet about the effects of Obamacare, etc.-has there been any talk about how this could affect things?

 

It's about as stable as you're likely to find. In some areas, new graduates have trouble finding jobs, but that's true of any major right now, and probably moreso in other fields.

 

I feel that most speculation about the impact of the ACA on nursing is just that - speculation. And generally more strongly influenced by the speculator's personal politics than actual reality.

 

Is it enough to get an RN? A friend said the RN is not a bachelor's degree though, is that right? Does that matter? To do well in the field, would it be better to go further, and if so, what is "further" in the nursing world? I know there is nurse practitioner-what else is there and what is your opinion of those options? (I realize she may figure out a more specific direction once she gets into clinical work and sees what types of nursing she likes best, but we're just generally at this point trying to see what schooling paths there are.)

RN can be either a Bachelor's Degree (BSN) or Associate's Degree (ASN/ADN).

 

Your local community college probably offers an ASN program, though I've seen a few community colleges that offer BSN programs, so that isn't 100% certain.

 

IMO, an ASN program is perfectly acceptable as a starting point, and I'd anticipate it remaining that way for the near future. Depending on where you live, it may make it harder or impossible to get a hospital job without further education, but there are plenty of job opportunities for nurses outside the hospital. RN to BSN programs are easy to find, easy to get into, and usually designed to be done while working. And, as someone else mentioned, some jobs will offer tuition reimbursement.

 

Nothing wrong with going straight to BSN either, but I certainly don't think it's necessary at this point. It just depends on what works best for your family.

 

I agree with the poster who said not to bother with an LVN/LPN program (unless it's a program where you get an LPN license after the first year of the program, then continue on to RN) - both job options and career advancement opportunities are a lot more limited. This is something I see the LPNs I work with really struggling with, because there are no good educational advancement options for them in our area. They're pretty much stuck unless they want to move or start over at the beginning of an RN program.

 

The community college here has a good reputation in the area for their RN program (there is a waiting list), so we thought maybe dd could start it in her senior year of college and have that count as both high school and college, and it would be very economical. Does a community college look bad though if she wants to go on in nursing education?

 

It is not safe to assume that a wait list means a good program (though your local program may be very good, or at least acceptable), unless you have other programs near you that are freely admitting anyone who applies. Wait list just means that more people are applying than there are spaces in the program (which are often very limited due to lack of clinical placement options and the necessarily low student:teacher ratio), and a wait list is how that program chooses to handle the excess. 

 

As far as the overlapping high school and nursing school plan goes... to oversimplify a little, there are two types of nursing programs. 

 

One type admits directly into the nursing program, usually on the basis of high school (or previous college) GPA and standardized test scores, and does not require any previous college-level coursework. These programs are true 2-year programs (though I imagine some students take longer to get through the general ed stuff), and students take all nursing coursework, related coursework (biology classes and things like that), and general education requirements at the same time (ie. VERY heavy courseload). I cannot see this type of program admitting a student who had not graduated high school, unless it was a special program specifically designed for high school students.

 

The other type (which I think is more common these days, but it varies geographically), requires prerequisite coursework to be done prior to admission to the program, and admission is based on performance in these classes and general education classes (most encourage, but don't require, students to finish most or all general ed classes before applying to the nursing program). These programs generally end up taking at least 3 years overall - 1 or more for the prerequisites, and 2 for the nursing program itself. Again, I find it unlikely that they would admit a high school student into the actual nursing program. However she could work on the general education classes, and at least theoretically start the prerequisite coursework, while still in high school. (I say theoretically because the prerequisite courses are often hard to get into, and, if dual enrollment students have low enrollment priority, may simply not be available.)

 

I don't see much of a stigma around community colleges in nursing. These days, even BSN nurses are commonly starting out at community college for their prerequisites. What matters is whether your highest degree fulfills the job requirements, not where you started. 

 

I have some hesitations about the idea of attempting to accelerate someone into nursing. I think that could be a very difficult path. 

 

I'm happy to babble on more about any of this if you have any questions.

 

How much math is required during college for RN (and beyond, if you know)? Dd is generally a stellar student, but math is NOT her strong suit. (the community college only requires completion of Algebra I, but we would still have her do more than that during the next couple years in case things change-she is 14)

 

Please feel free to add any comments, tips, etc beyond what I have asked. We are interested in learning as much as we can about this!

 

College level chemistry is required for nearly all nursing programs, and statistics for most BSN programs, so enough math to qualify for that (at the community college catalog I'm currently looking at, these both require Algebra II as a prerequisite).

 

Actual math used in nursing doesn't really go beyond the pre-algebra level, but she needs to be very solid and confident in that - dosage calculations and so forth aren't difficult, but getting the right answer may be literally a life or death thing.

[TechWife]

 

Is it enough to get an RN? A friend said the RN is not a bachelor's degree though, is that right? 

 

You are correct - it is the difference between having a license (issued by the state) and having a degree (issued by the college or university). RN's can have either an associate's or bachelor's degree (this may be state dependent, I'm not sure). A nurse who has a bachelor's degree has many more career paths open to them and a higher compensation scale than one with an associate's degree. Licensure as an LPN only requires a technical school education. Many use it as a stepping stone degree - a way to make money as they pursue a BSN. LPN's have limited jobs available to them and a lower compensation scale than an RN with either an AS or BSN.  

[HappyGrace]

Oh, I'm SO grateful for all these wonderful and informative responses-it is exactly the type of thing we need to know!

 

So we'll definitely stay away from LPN! And sounds like we should gear toward BSN. There is just so much here to help get us started, and we're so appreciative to you for taking the time to post. I will share these w/ dd tomorrow and we'll check back with any more questions. Feel free to keep posting though!

 

BTW, dd did consider physical therapy (hasn't totally ruled it out) and shadowed with a friend who is a PT-dd didn't exactly like the type of thing this woman was doing, but thought she might like to work with children in PT. It's just that the schooling is SO long for it now too! We know one woman who is a nurse making $66000 after 2 yrs RN degree with no college debt (went to community college) and her sister is not even making that as a PT after 6 yrs of school and lots of college debt! So that made us kind of think twice!

[ocelotmom]

BTW, dd did consider physical therapy (hasn't totally ruled it out) and shadowed with a friend who is a PT-dd didn't exactly like the type of thing this woman was doing, but thought she might like to work with children in PT. It's just that the schooling is SO long for it now too! We know one woman who is a nurse making $66000 after 2 yrs RN degree with no college debt (went to community college) and her sister is not even making that as a PT after 6 yrs of school and lots of college debt! So that made us kind of think twice!

 

That's not an unreasonable salary expectation (comes out to about $35/hour, assuming 3 12-hour shifts per week), but it very heavily depends on where you live. Some areas will be starting new grads around $19/hour, some areas as high as $50/hour (these areas tend to have very high cost of living, too). So look into what you can expect locally (or wherever your DD plans to move to).

 

Also, the pay rates for new graduate nurses don't tend to vary all that much between ASN and BSN. BSN just provides more opportunities. 

[G5052]

The only thing I'd add here is the recommendation to go to a nursing information session at the community college as soon as you can.  The one I work for does them every other month.  They recommend going as soon as you are thinking about nursing, even if you are just in late high school.  This will help you understand their requirements, what the process is for getting admitted, and what your options are.

 

[Jane in NC]

This is a great thread!  OP--I am cross posting a link to this on the high school board.  Some of the folks over there do not read the chat board.

[anne1456]

My 17 year old daughter is starting Nursing school at an ASN program next fall.  She took the route of doing most of her general ed. classes at community college her last two years of high school, so she will start nursing school in the fall with all her non-nursing classes done except microbiology.  Around here it is not required that you do that, but many people find it is hard to carry the required number of credits and do well if you don't.  And it allows her to take some classes that interest her, like Spanish, to fill out her schedule.  Plus the high grades in classes like A&P make it easier to get into nursing school, which is competitive, even if you are looking at community college.

 

We looked at both 4 year and 2 year programs, and she liked the 2 year better.  We also found the atmosphere at nursing schools varied a lot, so definitely visit some, don't just pick the closest.  Look at pass rates at on the NCLEX exam and drop out rates.  One college my daughter liked had 50% attrition rate, which seems way too high! She did find volunteering in a hospital invaluable in figuring out that she really wanted to pursue nursing.

[Crimson Wife]

Do look at allied health programs like ultrasound technician, EEG technician, etc. as those programs are short (1.5 to 2 years) but the pay is good.

[magnificent_baby]

Yes, she should plan on getting her BSN, or at least soon after an associate's degree. The majority of hospitals here are requiring a BSN as entry level, and even making existing RN's get it if they want to keep their jobs. There are a few routes she can choose from. Some programs require prereq's and basic science classes be taken before you can get into the actual program, although my ADN program had everything I needed built into it. Programs are very competitive here and difficult to get into, but it sounds like your Dd gets good grades, so that will help her a lot. She does need to be proficient at math basics and algebra type problems, but specific nursing math is taught within the programs (aside from any prereq's). I don't think nursing math is especially hard, but you do need a good foundation of it and feel comfortable with it before you practice. 

 

I think there will be a great need for RN's with baby boomers aging and also because of Obamacare. There are SO many fields of within nursing to go into! There are about 10 nurses in my immediate family and we are all in different areas. I'm in an NP program now, which is a master's degree program and the current entry level for NP's (this will change in the future to require a Doctorate of Nurse Practitioner, but not a requirement yet). You can go pretty much straight through to become an NP (my program requires 2,000 hours of RN experience) but I am glad I have experience in a few different areas, that helps. 

 

Good luck to her and keep us posted! 

[LucyStoner]

If she wants the best RN jobs, she will need to earn a BSN. Most practices and hospitals are only hiring new grads with a BSN. My MIL is an RN with nearly 40 years experience and she says that any RN under age 50 is really best off enrolling for the BSN. She is near retirement though so it's not really needed for her. As far as I have heard the only opportunities for new grad LPNs and RNs without the BSN are nursing and day homes.

A master's will mean more money, prescriptive authority and more autonomy. In my state midlevels (ARNPs and PAs) can practice on their own.

[Barbara H]

You've gotten a lot of good advice. One other thing I wanted to mention is to look early not just at requirements but what the admissions rates are like at the programs in your area. At our local community college there are many students who start in various allied health majors and then get lower grades in some of the require prerequisites particularly in math and science. They may still get their associates but it turns out they aren't competitive for admissions for nursing programs. So, you want to make sure she's got a solid foundation so she pulls strong grades in the early courses too.

[Murrayshire]

You've gotten a lot of good advice. One other thing I wanted to mention is to look early not just at requirements but what the admissions rates are like at the programs in your area. At our local community college there are many students who start in various allied health majors and then get lower grades in some of the require prerequisites particularly in math and science. They may still get their associates but it turns out they aren't competitive for admissions for nursing programs. So, you want to make sure she's got a solid foundation so she pulls strong grades in the early courses too.

Just want to say that I have found your Facebook page most helpful! Thank you!


I will be following this thread..... Thanks for all the great information!

[HappyGrace]

I am just astounded at all this great information! It is saving us so much time that you all have been so generous in sharing your tips! Thank you again!