Does anyone have experience with a "very late" potty trainer and outside classes? *TMI*

[AimeeM]

DS will be 5 in May and nowhere near potty trained, thanks to some chronic constipation issues (we're working on resolving, but it's very slow going). We're working on getting him into a GI, as his pediatrician doesn't seem the least bit concerned. This is the middle kiddo that was born with other birth (heart, lung, vascular) defects, so we're a bit behind the game physically regardless (cognitively, no problems).

 

He will pee on the potty when in underwear consistently, but because of his "bowel movement inconsistencies", underwear is not an option - he is either constipated and smearing constantly or his medication has kicked in and we have the opposite (which he can't seem to control).

 

We would like to enroll him in CCD at the church this fall, but all children *must* be potty trained (no diapers). Same reason we didn't enroll him last fall.

 

I'm going to call the church and ask, but does anyone have experience with these issues and enrolling in outside classes? I'm wondering if a doctor's note and me staying on campus would be enough for them to make an allowance?

[Lolly]

A doctor's note and you nearby should suffice to get him in class. This is a medical issue, not a potty training issue imnsho.

[SKL]

I agree, this is a medical issue and deserves an exception.  If they say no, ask them whether they ban kids in wheelchairs because walking is a desirable and developmentally appropriate skill.

[abba12]

At this point I would say your soon has moved from late potty training to a form of disability (it doesn't sound like the potty itself is an issue since he will wee in it just fine, its the severe bowel issues which are the real problem here). one of the things your child needs due to his medical issues is to wear a diaper, not because he hasn't been trained but because he physically cannot be trained right now until other issues are resolved.

 

As such, I think you need to reference their guidelines regarding special needs, not their standard potty training rules which would have been written with 3 and 4 year olds in mind. a doctors note might help if they don't consider the issue a special needs issue (I'm sure you've probably been on the receiving end of plenty of judgment already for having a 5yo in diapers)

 

he may still be unable to attend if they are unable to cater to special needs due to size, staffing or setup, but at least you can approach them the same way any mother of a special needs child would instead of arguing potty training.

[momto10blessings]

A doctor's note and you nearby should suffice to get him in class. This is a medical issue, not a potty training issue imnsho.

Agreed. Good luck!

[AimeeM]

Thanks guys! It's reassuring to hear.

Luckily we haven't really had much negativity regarding him in diapers, as he is roughly the size of a 2 year old, most people do not give it a second thought. Those who know his age, usually know his medical struggles and aren't judgmental.

 

[SKL]

As far as experience with this, my sister's daughter is 4 and still not reliably potty trained.  She attends preschool in pull-ups.  As far as her mom is concerned, pull-ups are underwear; the child can get them up and down and go to the toilet on her own.  The part-time preschool she attends has not given them a hard time.  It is possible another school would.

 

Even a preschool that requires kids to be potty-trained must expect that kids that age have accidents.  Some of my kids' 7yo classmates still have them.  I think what they mean is that they don't want parents to expect them to change diapers or constantly remind kids to go to the toilet.

[AimeeM]

As far as experience with this, my sister's daughter is 4 and still not reliably potty trained.  She attends preschool in pull-ups.  As far as her mom is concerned, pull-ups are underwear; the child can get them up and down and go to the toilet on her own.  The part-time preschool she attends has not given them a hard time.  It is possible another school would.

 

Even a preschool that requires kids to be potty-trained must expect that kids that age have accidents.  Some of my kids' 7yo classmates still have them.  I think what they mean is that they don't want parents to expect them to change diapers or constantly remind kids to go to the toilet.

 

I *think* it has to do with health regs and changing dirty diapers (also wiping children, etc)? I wish I could put pull ups on him and call it a day, but to be frank - he smells half the time if he isn't changed quickly, and I think that's the issue we'd run into in a "no diapers" classroom situation.

 

[abba12]

Thanks guys! It's reassuring to hear.

Luckily we haven't really had much negativity regarding him in diapers, as he is roughly the size of a 2 year old, most people do not give it a second thought. Those who know his age, usually know his medical struggles and aren't judgmental.

 

If he's the size of a 2 year old then it would be obvious, physically, that there is a disability involved here. Even the cranky old ladies who potty trained all their kids at 18 months old (ha!) would have a hard time arguing that still being in diapers is not a medical issue/disability.

 

So yeah, I would DEFINITELY approach this as a special needs issue, not a toilet training issue, and he should be fully entitled to the special care, including time taken to change diapers, that any disabled child would receive (but, again, depending on the group, they may not allow children with involved disabilities, i.e. those who need active help/attention, to attend. That would be different to refusing him because he is still in diapers, but still valid in a small group setting. They might not be set up to do it)

[Kerileanne99]

My dd4 goes 2 days/week to a play based preschool. There is a child in her class, the son of a friend of mine, who is not potty trained fully due to some slight medical issues. When the child started school there were a few snooty rumblings from 2 moms who happened to see a diaper poking out of the child's trousers and made judgements, calling on the schools pt policy.

 

The school did a great job of dealing with their 'complaints', and the issue at large. It is not an uncommon issue and they do treat it as a medical issue. A plan was made for the kiddo, so to maximize success and to minimize embarrassment. He is able to keep clothes, bags, wipes and such in the office. Apparently the teachers are not allowed to change him. Most schools (mom was told) have this policy in place for older children to protect the children and the adults, as well as to avoid the practical impossibility of diverting teacher attention from the rest of the class. His mother simply makes sure she is within a reasonable distance to get to the school very quickly. In the interim the child can put on clean clothes (he does underpants knowing mom will be there very quickly to switch out) and the admin/teachers can help with clean up of clothes and such by putting the soiled items in a bag for mom to take home.

I think that the vast majority of schools and teachers will treat the situation with the empathy, sensitivity, and compassion your child deserves. They may well ask for documentation from your kiddo's doctor, just for their records and to cover themselves. Make an appointment to discuss it with the admin, and I think you will hopefully be pleasantly suprised at how willing they are to work with your child. It is no different than needing a plan in place for a child with food allergies or similar, especially since you are obviously willing to stay and deal with any issues yourself.

And if their response is not "okay, thanks for giving us the information, how can we help to make this a great experience for your child, here is how we have compassionately dealt with this in the past..." Then it probably isn't the best place for him to be anyway.

 

Good luck, and I hope he has a great experience:)

[Haiku]

Medical disability. The CCD class should accomodate.

[Tammyla]

I think with a note and you on campus to quickly take care of any accidents, would be very easy for them to accommodate him into class.

 

 

[Ottakee]

Hopefully as a medical issue the church will be able to accept him.

 

If not, he would likely qualify for free public preschool programs for "at risk" kids due to his physical issues.

 

My one dd was not potty trained, as in not even ONE success on the toilet, until she was 4 3/4.  She has a mild CP and the urologist and neurologist just said that her brain/bladder/bowel connection wasn't there yet.

 

Just a side note, depending on your health insurance, if you get a doctor's prescription for them, some insurances will pay for pull ups and wipes for a child over age 3 who is not potty trained due to medical issues.  That was a huge money saver for me.

[G5052]

All you can do is ask. Hopefully they can think of a way of making this work. I suspect that the teachers are not allowed to change the clothing of the students they're in charge of. When I worked with kids that age in a church, we were not allowed to do that sort of thing under any circumstance. We had to call the parents to come get them. 

 

Programs not receiving government funds don't necessarily have to accommodate disabilities.  Think about how many churches are not accessible and/or don't have facilities for individuals with mobility issues.  So they legally do have an out, but practically they may be able to work with you.

[AimeeM]

Hopefully as a medical issue the church will be able to accept him.

 

If not, he would likely qualify for free public preschool programs for "at risk" kids due to his physical issues.

 

My one dd was not potty trained, as in not even ONE success on the toilet, until she was 4 3/4.  She has a mild CP and the urologist and neurologist just said that her brain/bladder/bowel connection wasn't there yet.

 

Just a side note, depending on your health insurance, if you get a doctor's prescription for them, some insurances will pay for pull ups and wipes for a child over age 3 who is not potty trained due to medical issues.  That was a huge money saver for me.

 

Oh we aren't looking at school for him! Just religious ed (CCD) on Sundays :)

[Ottakee]

I thought that you meant a preschool program.

 

I would see no reason why he couldn't go to CCD (like our SUnday School) on Sundays.  If he needs help they can come and get you.

[dbmamaz]

I have to say this - problems with bowels and being very small are both STRONG symptoms of gluten intolerance or celiac.  Even if all the tests come up negative, i would strongly recommend trying a month off gluten and see if it helps.  My middle child was always constipated and late to train - in preschool he would throw his underwear away if he had an accident, because the teachers were very unsympathetic.  MOM helped sometimes . .. I didnt discover his gluten issues until middle school, when he was having diarrhea twice every morning before the bus came.  It stopped in 2 days of quitting gluten.  

[zoobie]

I would phrase it as a medical issue, but they likely will not have the ability to change him. The changing facilities would need to be in the room or they would have to have enough staff for two people to take him to the changing area and staff to cover the rest of the children. He probably would not want to be changed in front of his friends. Will you be nearby for them to call or be able to provide an aide?

[ddcrook]

 We're working on getting him into a GI, as his pediatrician doesn't seem the least bit concerned. 

I'm glad you are getting him to a GI.  I have a slightly older child with similar issues and we have been working with the GI for over two years trying to figure this out.  Currently, we are working with a motility specialist.  She has undergone several tests and we are waiting for the results of her latest test to see if surgery, biofeedback, or a different medicinal regime will help her. The pediatrician's knowledge of this is limited.   A GI will provide much more thorough exams and treatments.

 

I agree with the previous posts.  This is a medical issue, not a potty training issue.  When my daughter attends classes, I always stay on campus.  When she takes a class that is only for one day (at the museum, etc.) I hand the teacher a card that says, "(Child's name) has a medical condition and may need my help in the restroom.  Please call me at (cell number)."  

 

I know this can be a difficult issue and I wish the best to your family!

[AimeeM]

His lung specialist wants him to see endo first, to see if this is *all* related to a growth issue (given his size - apparently, while his slow growth was understandable prior to his lung/vascular dx, and initially following his hospital stay and surgery, we're years later and it can no longer be considered that he is "just catching up").

 

I have to go down to the parish tomorrow to discuss my youngest child's baptism (yikes - are we late on that!), so I'll talk to the secretary about DS4 and the CCD class this fall, and put feelers out.

I'm glad you are getting him to a GI.  I have a slightly older child with similar issues and we have been working with the GI for over two years trying to figure this out.  Currently, we are working with a motility specialist.  She has undergone several tests and we are waiting for the results of her latest test to see if surgery, biofeedback, or a different medicinal regime will help her. The pediatrician's knowledge of this is limited.   A GI will provide much more thorough exams and treatments.

 

I agree with the previous posts.  This is a medical issue, not a potty training issue.  When my daughter attends classes, I always stay on campus.  When she takes a class that is only for one day (at the museum, etc.) I hand the teacher a card that says, "(Child's name) has a medical condition and may need my help in the restroom.  Please call me at (cell number)."  

 

I know this can be a difficult issue and I wish the best to your family!

 

[AimeeM]

I would phrase it as a medical issue, but they likely will not have the ability to change him. The changing facilities would need to be in the room or they would have to have enough staff for two people to take him to the changing area and staff to cover the rest of the children. He probably would not want to be changed in front of his friends. Will you be nearby for them to call or be able to provide an aide?

 

Yes, I plan to either stay on campus or have his older sister nearby (she'll be in a separate CCD class and can change him if needed - she sincerely never minds helping with her little brother if for some reason an emergency came up and I couldn't be on campus suddenly).

[katilac]

Is he really wanting to go? If not, I'd probably just give it a pass until the following year, simply because it's an optional class and most 5-yr-olds are going to be self-conscious about this sort of thing. 

[Whereneverever]

Yes, I plan to either stay on campus or have his older sister nearby (she'll be in a separate CCD class and can change him if needed - she sincerely never minds helping with her little brother if for some reason an emergency came up and I couldn't be on campus suddenly).

Could your older child volunteer in the room?

[AimeeM]

Could your older child volunteer in the room?

 

It would depend on what time her (older dd's) CCD class is.

[AimeeM]

Is he really wanting to go? If not, I'd probably just give it a pass until the following year, simply because it's an optional class and most 5-yr-olds are going to be self-conscious about this sort of thing. 

 

He does, very much, want to go to *something*, lol. If not this, we'll run into the same issue with dance class, etc. We do plan on enrolling him in t-ball, though.

[Heather in Neverland]

If it is just essentially a Sunday school class and you will be nearby to change him then I don't see the problem.