a-g requirements

[Hot Lava Mama]

I was looking at a web site that discusses the a-g requirements for University of California.  I would like to find a listing of courses that meet those objectives.  However, to do a search, you have to know specifics like the school name or online publisher.  Is there a way to search, for example, on "world history" and have a listing of publishers that would meet this requirement?  I was hoping to just list the requirements so I could take a look at all the providers that meet that requirement and then choose among those courses.

Any help is very much appreciated!

Hot Lava Mama

[JenneinCA]

I am not sure there are any online classes that meet the a-g requirements.

 

I looked into Connections Academy, an online public charter school in California, and it did not meet the requirements in all the classes. The problems were in lab science and foreign languages. I think they met them in the rest of the subjects, but I was interested in getting my daughter a a-g diploma and that means ALL of the subjects needed to meet the requirements.

 

If you do find something that works in lab science or foreign language then please post.

[Crimson Wife]

Have you seen this website: https://doorways.ucop.edu/list/app/institutionSearch-flow?execution=e4s1

 

I see a way to search for just online course providers and by course title (like world history) but I'm not sure how to combine the two.

[Hot Lava Mama]

Have you seen this website: https://doorways.ucop.edu/list/app/institutionSearch-flow?execution=e4s1

 

I see a way to search for just online course providers and by course title (like world history) but I'm not sure how to combine the two.

 

Yeah, I saw that.  If I search on something like "world history", it comes up with hundreds of entries, then I have to click on each one to see "where" it is (such as -------school).  I was hoping for something easier.

Thanks anyways.

Hot Lava Mama

[Hot Lava Mama]

You could pick the top 10 high schools in CA and then look at their course listings, for ex.

 

That's a good idea.  Thanks!

:)

[Susie in CA]

You can also take the a-g courses at the local community colleges. That's pretty much what we intend to do.

 

 

[Hot Lava Mama]

You could pick the top 10 high schools in CA and then look at their course listings, for ex.

 

My searches brought up names (in CA as well as the entire US), but they don't actually list the books used.  Under curriculum, they state general terms such as "History 9", etc. 

 

Any ideas of how I could get the actual book used?

Hot Lava Mama

 

[Hot Lava Mama]

You can also take the a-g courses at the local community colleges. That's pretty much what we intend to do.

 

That's a thought.  What will this look like?  Since the a-g courses are basically "everything" a child would take in high school, is your child doing high school in community college or are you just covering the "gaps" in the a-g requirements after high school?

 

I was looking at a local cc here, and the child has to be at least 16 before they are able to enroll.  In that case, there is no way he could do all his a-g requirements at cc unless he continued on there for the first two years of college.

 

Thanks for your help!

Hot Lava Mama

 

[Hot Lava Mama]

Also, I can't seem to find SPECIFIC information on what the a-g requirements are.  I saw general descriptions, but not a syllabus-like kind of listing.  It seems like they want to "approve" your course in order for you to qualify.  Does anyone know where I can get a detailed listing on what needs to be covered?  (ie: US history should cover founding documents, etc. etc.)

Hot Lava Mama

[Corraleno]

This PDF lists all of the a-g requirements, along with all of the possible ways of meeting them. Virtually all the requirements can be satisfied with AP or SAT subject tests, as well as DE courses, and the English requirement can even be met with the regular SAT — a score of 680 on the verbal section of the SAT satisfies all 4 yrs of English; a score of 560 satisfies 3 yrs, which could then be topped up with one course @CC. The only possible issue is that, starting next fall, they specifically require a geometry course, for which there's no AP/SAT exam, and it may be difficult to find a CC course. So for that one course, you might need to find an approved provider. I know that many of Laurel Springs online courses are a-g approved, but there are other providers as well.

 

If you're looking for specific syllabi & text books with the idea of meeting the a-g requirements with homeschool courses, I don't believe that nonaccredited courses are acceptable. However, there is also an option of "admission by exam," where you submit scores for 2 SAT subject tests plus either the ACT or SAT. There's a list of the scores needed to be eligible for this option here. 

[yvonne]

If you're looking for specific syllabi & text books with the idea of meeting the a-g requirements with homeschool courses, I don't believe that nonaccredited courses are acceptable.

 

This is what I've found, too.

 

It seems the options for meeting the a-g requirements boil down to:

 

1) "approved" a-g courses from some accredited institution:

         at a brick & mortar high school that offers the courses

         at a cc (if the student is at least 16, or if the student passes the CHSPE)

         from an online provider (listed on the UC doorways site)

         under an umbrella charter (home school the course using an option from the umbrella)

 

2) SAT 2 or AP exams for the a-g subjects you've covered on your own at home

 

3) entrance by exam

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

This PDF lists all of the a-g requirements, along with all of the possible ways of meeting them. Virtually all the requirements can be satisfied with AP or SAT subject tests, as well as DE courses, and the English requirement can even be met with the regular SAT — a score of 680 on the verbal section of the SAT satisfies all 4 yrs of English; a score of 560 satisfies 3 yrs, which could then be topped up with one course @CC. The only possible issue is that, starting next fall, they specifically require a geometry course, for which there's no AP/SAT exam, and it may be difficult to find a CC course. So for that one course, you might need to find an approved provider. I know that many of Laurel Springs online courses are a-g approved, but there are other providers as well.

 

If you're looking for specific syllabi & text books with the idea of meeting the a-g requirements with homeschool courses, I don't believe that nonaccredited courses are acceptable. However, there is also an option of "admission by exam," where you submit scores for 2 SAT subject tests plus either the ACT or SAT. There's a list of the scores needed to be eligible for this option here. 

 

See, this option seems so simple to me - take the SAT/ACT and 2 SAT subject tests - is it really that easy?  And if it is, why are so many people agonizing about a-g requirements?  Honest question.  This seems like a totally viable 3rd option to the b&high school vs. cc choices.

[Ellie]

My searches brought up names (in CA as well as the entire US), but they don't actually list the books used.  Under curriculum, they state general terms such as "History 9", etc. 

 

But that's what "curriculum" actually is.

 

Any ideas of how I could get the actual book used?

 

The schools probably use a variety books and methods (i.e., Internet, reports, projects) to cover the curriculum. Few schools depend 100% on textbooks to cover the curriculum.

 

 

[In The Great White North]

So, UC basically requires the use of an approved umbrella school or CC?  Possibly narrowed down by taking 6 Subject tests (World History, US History, Math 2, two sciences and a language) and the rest at the umbrella school or CC?  Even music?  

 

That is worse than any other "non-homeschool-friendly" school that has ever been mentioned on these boards.

[Corraleno]

See, this option seems so simple to me - take the SAT/ACT and 2 SAT subject tests - is it really that easy?  And if it is, why are so many people agonizing about a-g requirements?  Honest question.  This seems like a totally viable 3rd option to the b&high school vs. cc choices.

 

The scores have to be pretty high to be eligible for this option, and you can't use SAT subject tests in any subject you've taken a college course in. I think for an OOS student, the minimum needed would be around 2130 on the SAT + 710 on each subject test. And those are just the minimum scores needed to apply, not necessarily what you'd need to be competitive. But for students who can score well into the 700s, yes it would be the simplest option. 

[Corraleno]

So, UC basically requires the use of an approved umbrella school or CC?  Possibly narrowed down by taking 6 Subject tests (World History, US History, Math 2, two sciences and a language) and the rest at the umbrella school or CC?  Even music?  

 

That is worse than any other "non-homeschool-friendly" school that has ever been mentioned on these boards.

 

Well, to be fair, their requirements are pretty unfriendly to everyone, including in-state students attending B&M schools! 

 

This year, UCLA alone had over 100,000 applicants — UC can create as many hoops as they want, and people will still jump through them. With that volume of applicants, they don't have time to do "wholistic reviews" of each application, so making everyone jump through the same hoops makes it easier to just check off boxes.

[yvonne]

See, this option seems so simple to me - take the SAT/ACT and 2 SAT subject tests - is it really that easy?  And if it is, why are so many people agonizing about a-g requirements?  Honest question.  This seems like a totally viable 3rd option to the b&high school vs. cc choices.

 

If we home school high school, I do think the SAT2/AP route would be the simplest one for us.

 

Personally, I'm trying to sort out a couple of concerns in regard to our taking the SAT2/AP route, though.

 

1) If we follow a four year, chronological approach to history, will the student be prepared for the AP World History and the AP US History exams?  Are these exams so content-specific that they require focused "AP World History" and "AP USH" courses?

 

2) I'm not sure the SAT2/AP route supports a Great Books type of study. My oldest have been doing the Omni sequence in 7th and 8th. It's definitely more Great Books than history, but couldn't a "well-educated" student derive as much value from a Great Books education as from a hard-core, specifically AP/SAT2-oriented history study?  I suppose the solution would be to try to get a better balance of Great Books/history study, less Great Books/more history, but would that be enough to achieve an a-g qualifying score in world history and in US history?

 

3) I'm not sure how exam-driven our studies would become. We're trying to follow an academically rigorous path, and I'd like to think the SAT2s and APs would simply follow what my students would be studying anyhow, but we haven't btdt, yet, so I don't really know if or how much time we'd have to put into specific test prep.

 

A potential issue for others might be the foreign language requirement of 2 a-g years.  I think a passing score on the SAT2 exam would require at least 3 years of one language and at least 4 years for the AP. If the student took an a-g course for 2 years at a b&m, for example, he could satisfy the language requirement, regardless of how much he had learned.  If he were going the exam route, he'd need to take at least 3 years.

[yvonne]

See, this option seems so simple to me - take the SAT/ACT and 2 SAT subject tests - is it really that easy? 

 

It takes more than the SAT/ACT and two SAT2 subject exams. 

 

I may have misunderstood the info on UC's site, but I think the student would have to take a subject exam for any of the a-g subjects he did not take with an "approved" a-g course.

 

For example, on the "Options for Satisfying UC's A-G Subject Requirements," 2 years of history are required. A SAT2 World History score of 540 would satisfy ONE year of the history. A SAT2 US History score of 550 would satisfy ONE year.

You'd have to take two SAT2 science exams to meet the "d"/Lab Science requirement, three if you want to get to UC's recommended number of lab science credits.

 

Etc.

[Corraleno]

It takes more than the SAT/ACT and two SAT2 subject exams. 

 

I may have misunderstood the info on UC's site, but I think the student would have to take a subject exam for any of the a-g subjects he did not take with an "approved" a-g course.

 

No, there is the option for admission by exam, in which case you only need to take 2 subject tests plus either the ACT or SAT. But you need high scores (basically an average of at least 700 on each SAT component).

[Corraleno]

 I'm not sure how exam-driven our studies would become. We're trying to follow an academically rigorous path, and I'd like to think the SAT2s and APs would simply follow what my students would be studying anyhow, but we haven't btdt, yet, so I don't really know if or how much time we'd have to put into specific test prep.

 

If you are considering trying to meet most of the a-g requirements through SAT/AP, then I recommend going to a library or bookstore and looking through lots of the prep books to get an idea of what you'd be expected to cover. For some subjects, yes the content is very specific, so you would definitely want to be aware of the S&S as well as the format of the tests (how to answer DBQs, etc.).

 

You can also meet some or all of the requirements with CC courses, if DE is a possibility for you. Then there's also the CC-transfer route, or the admissions-by-exam route.

[JennW in SoCal]

There is another option.  Forget the UCs altogether.  Yes I'm being a bit too facetious, but the a-g hoops may not be worth the trouble for a system that is no longer the be-all-end-all for an undergraduate education.  I worked there for several years and am friends with current faculty members, some of whom have flat out recommended that bright students head elsewhere for undergrad work.  Some of the specific problems with the UCs are:

 

The UCs have faced the same deep budget-cutting knife that has gouged the Cal State system and the community college districts.  Campus libraries have been closed, excellent faculty have abandoned the system to teach elsewhere, and offerings have been cut.  Salaries have been cut, raises postponed -- it has been grim for staff and faculty alike.

 

The tuition (oh, excuse me -- the fees) have gone up to the point that the cost of sending our ds to a UC would be more than the cost of sending him to the out of state, private LAC he currently attends.  Seriously.  Many private LACs offer generous merit scholarships which make them financially very competitive.  IMHO the education and opportunities at my son's LAC are far superior to anything he'd get at a UC, but that's another topic altogether.

 

To balance their ledgers, many campuses are admitting more international and out-of-state students who will pay the full out-of-state fees, meaning a smaller percentage of in-state students get admitted.  Many of the young high school grads I know, some with excellent grades, scores, volunteer and sports credentials, have either headed to CalState schools, or to Arizona or Oregon state schools.  They simply weren't accepted to a UC.  

 

I know some homeschooled kids who transferred into a UC from community college.  That route has been made more difficult by the budget cuts, too, as the CC course offerings were reduced making it harder to get all the required prerequisites out of the way.  Furthermore, many of the guaranteed transfer agreements have been eliminated, meaning a UC will no longer automatically accept a CC transfer who has met all the requirements.  

 

 

If you are still determined to prepare your homeschooled teen for a UC, there are some other options.  Some public charter schools are WASC accredited and offer a-g courses.  Depending on the charter, you might be able to still homeschool as you wish and have the a-g credit on the transcript.  

 

UC Riverside has been accepting homeschool students through, I believe, a portfolio review for several years now.  Of course it means living in Riverside (apologies to those of you living in the Inland Empire!)

 

 

 

[Laura in CA]

Since we're in CA, the a-g discussion has been a pretty big deal, even for us homeschoolers (at least, for those of us who choose to look at the UCs. I had been dismissive of them as not being the incredible value they used to be -- and that's true -- but they're still way cheaper than any full-pay private school around here.) On the advice of hs'ers who'd tried to cover all the a-g requirements while still doing their own thing (which is why we're homeschooling in the first place!), such as Great Books, as Yvonne says, I initially threw the a-g stuff out the window when my son started high school. However, he's a good test-taker, and the UCs, in particular Berkeley and UCLA, started to seem like attractive options, and others, such as UC Irvine, looked like good 'backup' schools -- assuming he could get in. So I took a good hard look at that PDF of ways to cover a-g through testing and CC/univ classes.

The scores have to be pretty high to be eligible for this option, and you can't use SAT subject tests in any subject you've taken a college course in. I think for an OOS student, the minimum needed would be around 2130 on the SAT + 710 on each subject test. And those are just the minimum scores needed to apply, not necessarily what you'd need to be competitive. But for students who can score well into the 700s, yes it would be the simplest option.

This is very confusing, discussed a lot here in CA and also on national hs'ing loops, and has never been satisfactorily answered, even for hs'ing parents who teach at a UC. Two local hs'ing gurus/advisors say, you can call every UC and get a different answer from each one, and even from the same one, depending on whom you speak to. What if your child (like mine) takes the subject test in Math Level 2 and gets a score well over their theshold, and then takes a college course (at a b&m CA state college) in higher math than is tested on the SAT subject test? Never did get a satisfactory answer to that one. Or even what if he takes a course in, say, precalculus, after getting the high-enough subject test score?

Well, to be fair, their requirements are pretty unfriendly to everyone, including in-state students attending B&M schools!

 

This year, UCLA alone had over 100,000 applicants — UC can create as many hoops as they want, and people will still jump through them. With that volume of applicants, they don't have time to do "wholistic reviews" of each application, so making everyone jump through the same hoops makes it easier to just check off boxes.

And UC Berkeley had almost 73,000 freshman applications this fall. Crazy! But somehow my son was accepted. We have yet to hear from UCLA and some other UCs. I was initially almost in shock that my son was accepted at Cal, because their 'holistic' review is well-documented. We hadn't done all of the a-g "stuff," we homeschool, and my son is multiethnic (white and a waaaay-overrepresented-at-UCs minority), plus he was also rather careless in how he filled in his application (don't get me started :glare: -- I'll just say he's matured a lot in the last few months! :) ) ... but I guess they overlooked all that and his scores (very high) spoke for themselves ... ??

If we home school high school, I do think the SAT2/AP route would be the simplest one for us.

 

Personally, I'm trying to sort out a couple of concerns in regard to our taking the SAT2/AP route, though.

 

1) If we follow a four year, chronological approach to history, will the student be prepared for the AP World History and the AP US History exams? Are these exams so content-specific that they require focused "AP World History" and "AP USH" courses?

 

2) I'm not sure the SAT2/AP route supports a Great Books type of study. My oldest have been doing the Omni sequence in 7th and 8th. It's definitely more Great Books than history, but couldn't a "well-educated" student derive as much value from a Great Books education as from a hard-core, specifically AP/SAT2-oriented history study? I suppose the solution would be to try to get a better balance of Great Books/history study, less Great Books/more history, but would that be enough to achieve an a-g qualifying score in world history and in US history?

 

3) I'm not sure how exam-driven our studies would become. We're trying to follow an academically rigorous path, and I'd like to think the SAT2s and APs would simply follow what my students would be studying anyhow, but we haven't btdt, yet, so I don't really know if or how much time we'd have to put into specific test prep.

 

A potential issue for others might be the foreign language requirement of 2 a-g years. I think a passing score on the SAT2 exam would require at least 3 years of one language and at least 4 years for the AP. If the student took an a-g course for 2 years at a b&m, for example, he could satisfy the language requirement, regardless of how much he had learned. If he were going the exam route, he'd need to take at least 3 years.

I haven't looked at the recommendations closely, but the local public schools say 2 years of high-school foreign language for a Cal State, and 3 years for a UC.

It takes more than the SAT/ACT and two SAT2 subject exams.

 

I may have misunderstood the info on UC's site, but I think the student would have to take a subject exam for any of the a-g subjects he did not take with an "approved" a-g course.

 

For example, on the "Options for Satisfying UC's A-G Subject Requirements," 2 years of history are required. A SAT2 World History score of 540 would satisfy ONE year of the history. A SAT2 US History score of 550 would satisfy ONE year.

You'd have to take two SAT2 science exams to meet the "d"/Lab Science requirement, three if you want to get to UC's recommended number of lab science credits.

 

Etc.

Since we decided not to worry about covering every a-g base (on the advice of wiser, older hs'ers who had tried to combine a-g fulfillment and TWTM-style study, and it had killed their kid's love of learning and damaged the parent-student relationship), my son never took any history subject tests. (He did take the AP Comp Gov exam.) He easily could have, we just never got around to it. And it's still probably a good idea to have a lab class at a b&m school ... It's not completely clear that you can test out of the lab part ... We looked everywhere for lab sciences ...

Anyway, apparently Berkeley didn't care ... although my son *is* a good test-taker and had very high SAT scores, lots of APs, CC & Cal State classes, etc. That's what we were banking on. We don't know if the other 3 UCs he applied to will accept him, but we should know within a few weeks ...

 

Anyway, I hope that's helpful. Since it's impossible to get straight answers from any of the UCs (except Riverside, of course) regarding homeschool admissions, we just collected as many anecdotes and experiences as we could from hs'ers who had been accepted at UCs/Cal States, paid the application fees (!), held our breath, and ... at least one acceptance!

 

 

ETA: He just heard he's been accepted to UC Irvine and UC San Diego also! ... and now UCLA.

[Ellie]

So, UC basically requires the use of an approved umbrella school or CC?  Possibly narrowed down by taking 6 Subject tests (World History, US History, Math 2, two sciences and a language) and the rest at the umbrella school or CC?  Even music?  

 

That is worse than any other "non-homeschool-friendly" school that has ever been mentioned on these boards.

 

There is no such thing as "approved umbrella schools" in California.

[Laura in CA]

P.S. A few months ago my son wasn't even going to apply to UC Berkeley ... now that he's been accepted, and is being considered for a Regents' and Chancellor's Scholarship (the perks of which would make Cal on an even footing with a private university), he's seriously thinking about attending. He's especially excited by the opportunity to minor in classics and a foreign language -- Cal offers 57 foreign languages. He even said he might take a class in Yiddish or Armenian (!), just for fun. These big flagship state schools do have a lot to offer ...

[yvonne]

Thanks for the clarification, Corraleno. I've been so focused on the subject exams, I'd lost track of the admissions by exam route. 

 

The local cc's aren't a route we want to pursue.

 

There is another option.  Forget the UCs altogether.  Yes I'm being a bit too facetious, but the a-g hoops may not be worth the trouble for a system that is no longer the be-all-end-all for an undergraduate education.

 

Yep, this is exactly the point I'm coming to!  Is meeting a-g requirements really that worthwhile? They only keep the door to a UC open, and they don't guarantee the campus of your choice. I'm personally not sure how many gyrations I'm willing to take the kids through just to keep the UC door open.  If one of them decides s/he wants to attend UC, we can go the exam route at that point.

 

 

[yvonne]

Laura,

I was going to pm you when I saw your son's acceptance to UCB on the other thread!  Please pm me if this is better off list, but others on this thread might also be interested. 

 

Did your son take the admissions-by-exam route?  He did the SAT/ACT + at least 2 SAT2's or AP's?  Or do you think it was his CalState classes that did it?

 

Does it matter which SAT2's a student takes?

 

Did you lean more toward a standard high school sequence?  If you were able to preserve more of a Great Books/TWTM sequence, I'd be interested in how you did it?

 

Thanks!
 

[Laura in CA]

Yvonne, I'm happy to reply here ... the more info that's out there, the better for us homeschoolers! I'll come back and answer your questions later today -- in a few minutes I'm hopping on BART with my other son to go visit ... Berkeley! (My mother wants the t-shirt that says "UC Berkeley" in Chinese :D, so it's a good excuse for a fun outing with my college son home on break!)

 

[Crimson Wife]

Is meeting a-g requirements really that worthwhile? They only keep the door to a UC open, and they don't guarantee the campus of your choice. I'm personally not sure how many gyrations I'm willing to take the kids through just to keep the UC door open.  If one of them decides s/he wants to attend UC, we can go the exam route at that point.

Our local Cal State requires students to have met the a-g requirements as well. Things may be better this year with a stronger state budget, but a couple years ago they denied 2/3 of applicants. CSU Hayward!

[Susie in CA]

That's a thought.  What will this look like?  Since the a-g courses are basically "everything" a child would take in high school, is your child doing high school in community college or are you just covering the "gaps" in the a-g requirements after high school?

 

I was looking at a local cc here, and the child has to be at least 16 before they are able to enroll.  In that case, there is no way he could do all his a-g requirements at cc unless he continued on there for the first two years of college.

 

Thanks for your help!

Hot Lava Mama

 

 

A lot depends on your goals. Are you looking to transfer into a UC school? If so you may want to find the list of required transfer courses which are basically the a-g requirements.

 

 

A: English Comp, 1 course

B: Critical Thinking, 1 course

C:Math 1 course (must college Algebra or higher)

D: Arts and Humanities 3 courses

E: Social and Behavioral Sciences 3 courses

F: Physical and Biological Sciences, 2 courses

G: Foreign Language: 2 courses

 

This makes a total of 13 courses. Since at the CC they are all semester courses you could finish those in 2 years. I am not saying you have to or that you wanted to. It all depends on your goals. 

We are planning on doing all of our Math and Science courses at the CC. This is partly because I am not that comfortable with these subjects and partly because I am not able to provide a proper lab at home. We are still doing most of our history and literature as well as foreign language at home. The senior year I'll probably have the boys complete English at the CC. We'll try and test out of foreign language.

 

You should look at your cc's website or pick up their catalouge and you'll probably find the requirements listed in detai.

 

Also, I am not sure but I was under the impression that in CA you can attend any community college at 15. Prior to 15 years old it various by college. We are lucky, I guess. Ds is 14 and is taking Math there right now.

 

I hope was helpful and not too confusing. :-)

[Hot Lava Mama]

A lot depends on your goals. Are you looking to transfer into a UC school? If so you may want to find the list of required transfer courses which are basically the a-g requirements.

 

 

A: English Comp, 1 course

B: Critical Thinking, 1 course

C:Math 1 course (must college Algebra or higher)

D: Arts and Humanities 3 courses

E: Social and Behavioral Sciences 3 courses

F: Physical and Biological Sciences, 2 courses

G: Foreign Language: 2 courses

 

This makes a total of 13 courses. Since at the CC they are all semester courses you could finish those in 2 years. I am not saying you have to or that you wanted to. It all depends on your goals. 

We are planning on doing all of our Math and Science courses at the CC. This is partly because I am not that comfortable with these subjects and partly because I am not able to provide a proper lab at home. We are still doing most of our history and literature as well as foreign language at home. The senior year I'll probably have the boys complete English at the CC. We'll try and test out of foreign language.

 

You should look at your cc's website or pick up their catalouge and you'll probably find the requirements listed in detai.

 

Also, I am not sure but I was under the impression that in CA you can attend any community college at 15. Prior to 15 years old it various by college. We are lucky, I guess. Ds is 14 and is taking Math there right now.

 

I hope was helpful and not too confusing. :-)

 

Thanks for the information.  No, it wasn't confusing.  I'm not sure about all of CA, but the local one here said applicants had to be at least 16 years old.  Perhaps that is just the requirement for that one.  I might look at some other ones that are close (but not as close as that other one) as a possibility. Thanks for your help.

:)

 

 

[Ellie]

Also, I am not sure but I was under the impression that in CA you can attend any community college at 15. Prior to 15 years old it various by college. We are lucky, I guess. Ds is 14 and is taking Math there right now.

 

 

 

There is no law for community college entrance. It is up to the individual college. Both of mine were 14, as were many others that we knew. :-)

 

Also, their college (Evergreen Valley College in San Jose) had two categories of under-age student: dual enrolled and "student under 18 not enrolled in high school." With the second option, students earned college credit and only had to have parental permission, not paperwork signed by any school officials. They paid regular tuition, which at that time (early 90s) was not very high (textbooks were MUCH higher!), and they could take as many credit hours as they wanted. AFAIK, it was the only c.c. in the Bay area that had that option; all of the others did dual enrollment, but they were limited to the number of credit hours they could take each semester/quarter.

[Farmgirl70]

Our local Cal State requires students to have met the a-g requirements as well. Things may be better this year with a stronger state budget, but a couple years ago they denied 2/3 of applicants. CSU Hayward!

I have two kids at San Francisco State (a CSU)….we homeschooled independently and SFState does state that it requires a-g as well.  However, my kids applied with their SAT scores, my grades (one of them had one CC class) and they accepted our courses.  I think that they are more flexible with the requirements than UCs.  I did have a hiccup when it came time to submit final transcripts in June with dd #1, but it did all work out and she is finishing sophomore year now.  No problems or hiccups with my ds (#2).  Don't write the CSUs off--it's worth a try.  SFState was more familiar with umbrella schools/charter schools than with independent homeschoolers, but we got in!

[Pepper Potts]

Do any of the Cal State schools also follow the "Admission by exam" option? Looking for a "safety" other than the transfer from CC route. Any btdt besides Farmgirl70? Or know kids IRL who were accepted in this way to a Cal State??

 

We homeschool independently here in SoCal and Ds has taken a few CC classes but he won't have all the A-G equivalents met by the end of this Spring - his Junior year. He tests well and would make the admit-by-exam mark, but he doesn't think the UCs are a good fit for him. He's looking for a smaller tech school.

 

However, he needs a safety when applying next year, and honestly we're having a very hard time finding one that is cheap as dirt and a shoo in for admittance : ) I know CC is his ultimate back up - but it would be nice if he could "Love thy safety", kwim?

[Laura in CA]

Laura,

I was going to pm you when I saw your son's acceptance to UCB on the other thread! Please pm me if this is better off list, but others on this thread might also be interested.

 

Did your son take the admissions-by-exam route? He did the SAT/ACT + at least 2 SAT2's or AP's? Or do you think it was his CalState classes that did it?

 

Does it matter which SAT2's a student takes?

 

Did you lean more toward a standard high school sequence? If you were able to preserve more of a Great Books/TWTM sequence, I'd be interested in how you did it?

 

Thanks!

Yvonne, I'll answer your questions briefly here, but I'm in the process of writing up a more detailed (and more private) account -- because a lot of people are curious how an independent homeschooler got into Cal. I'll try to finish that within a week or so, while everything is still fresh in my mind. So please do PM me in a few days.

 

The short answers are that I'm not exactly sure, haha, & my son does test very well (as in, 790-800 on the SAT & subject tests, with minimal prep) -- he's a normal kid, but bright AND sees tests as puzzles -- i.e., fun. Go figure.

 

I don't think it was the CSU courses, b/c our local CSU is quarter system, so he'd had only a few weeks of class when the UC apps were due in Nov. He did have 3 CC courses already and 6 AP exam scores when he applied, as well as 5 SAT subject tests and the regular SAT. (And he indicated he was planning to take more CSU courses winter and spring quarters.)

 

I don't know if he applied via admission-by-exam -- frustratingly -- b/c the application has no place to indicate how you're applying (by exam, by exception, a-g, ELC, etc.). I had planned to go talk to a UCB admissions officer in person, or call, but I never got around to it. (At that point the UCs were just backup schools for my son -- he was fixated on tech schools.) In Nov. I did call UC Irvine, and a very helpful person there said my son should use the "Additional Comments" box on the app to emphasize that he had fulfilled many of the a-g requirements through testing. The UCI person (I think) basically said, just send us all your son's stats and trust us to sort it all out. (I'm going to go back and look at my notes when I write up the detailed account.)

 

When my son hit "submit," a screen came up that said he hadn't fulfilled all of the a-g, specifically fine arts (we knew that!).

 

As far as which SAT subject tests -- Math of course, and I'd aim for a variety of areas. Also look at the individual majors -- chemistry at Cal, for example, recommends certain ones (for all applicants). They're not *required,* but without them one's chances are very slim.

 

And yes, we absolutely did our own thing -- six years of classical lit, for example; several years of our own history classes; many AoPS courses; etc. As an independent homeschooler, you don't use that drop-down menu of approved course titles, but instead can type in your own homemade course titles -- as well as indicate whether the course is honors, AP, college level, etc.

 

Does that answer your questions? And I'll add more later if anything occurs to me!

 

 

ETA: here are the recommended SAT subject tests for various majors/UC campuses:

 

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/requirements/examination-requirement/SAT-subject-tests/

 

(I can't do the nifty link thing on my iPad :) )

 

Of course it's reassuring to admissions if homeschoolers take subject tests in additional areas beyond what is recommended in that link. For example, my son took the German subject test b/c Georgia Tech strongly recommended a foreign-language subject test for homeschoolers, and almost as an afterthought we sent the score to the UC system; I imagine it helped.

[yvonne]

Pm'ing you...

[Running the race]

My son was admitted to Cal State Long Beach with a fairly high ACT score, no AP, no community college classes, and the classes I input from our transcript. They are not A-G approved. We'll see what happens when we submit the final transcript. I hadn't thought about that.

CSULB is not near his top choice right now, but you never know.

[Pepper Potts]

My son was admitted to Cal State Long Beach with a fairly high ACT score, no AP, no community college classes, and the classes I input from our transcript. They are not A-G approved. We'll see what happens when we submit the final transcript. I hadn't thought about that.

 

CSULB is not near his top choice right now, but you never know.

 

Thanks for sharing, Running the race. Very interesting! And Congrats to your son  :thumbup:

Have/had any other homeschoolers you know IRL had luck with CSULB before?

 

[Running the race]

Thanks for sharing, Running the race. Very interesting! And Congrats to your son  :thumbup:

Have/had any other homeschoolers you know IRL had luck with CSULB before?

 

 

I know other homeschoolers who have attended CSULB, but they might have technically graduated from a private school with recognized A-G requirements. I could find out.

 

Edited to add: The family I know DID fulfill the A-G requirements. One graduated from a charter school and the second one graduated from a school with a brick and mortar campus.

[chiguirre]

What's the critical thinking requirement fulfilled with?

 

B: Critical Thinking, 1 course

 

All of the other a-g requirements are similar to the Texas CC-UT/A&M articulation agreements, but that one isn't.

[yvonne]

What's the critical thinking requirement fulfilled with?

 

B: Critical Thinking, 1 course

 

I think the list posted above was specific to some CC-UC transfer situation.

 

 

Here's the a-g list from the UC site:

 

• History/social science (“aâ€) – Two years, including one year of world history, cultures and historical geography and one year of U.S. history, or one-half year of U.S. history and one-half year of  American government or civics.

• English (“bâ€) – Four years of college preparatory English that integrates reading of classic and modern literature, frequent and regular writing, and practice listening and speaking.

• Mathematics (“câ€) – Three years of college-preparatory mathematics that include or integrate the topics covered in elementary and advanced algebra and two- and three-dimensional geometry.

• Laboratory science (“dâ€) – Two years of laboratory science providing fundamental knowledge in at least two of the three disciplines of biology, chemistry and physics.

• Language other than English (“eâ€) – Two years of the same language other than English or equivalent to the second-level of high school instruction.

• Visual and performing arts (“fâ€) – One year chosen from dance, drama/theater, music or visual art.

• College-preparatory elective (“gâ€) – One year chosen from the “a-f†courses beyond those used to satisfy the requirements above, or courses that have been approved solely in the elective area.

It isn't a big deal to cover all these in an academic home school situation. The issue is that UC regulates which texts you can use and/or which classes you can use to meet the requirements. You must use an "a-g approved" text or an "a-g approved" class. (Or SAT2s, etc.)

[Laura in CA]

I have two kids at San Francisco State (a CSU)….we homeschooled independently and SFState does state that it requires a-g as well.  However, my kids applied with their SAT scores, my grades (one of them had one CC class) and they accepted our courses.  I think that they are more flexible with the requirements than UCs.  I did have a hiccup when it came time to submit final transcripts in June with dd #1, but it did all work out and she is finishing sophomore year now.  No problems or hiccups with my ds (#2).  Don't write the CSUs off--it's worth a try.  SFState was more familiar with umbrella schools/charter schools than with independent homeschoolers, but we got in!

 

Farmgirl, may I ask what the 'hiccup' was? This is my fear -- that something will go wrong with the final transcript and they'll say, when it's far too late to go to any other schools, "Wait a minute -- he's homeschooled?!? We take it back!"

 

I've heard of some schools (not necessarily CSU/UC) that want the transcript notarized, etc. ... UCSD says something on their website about how homeschooled students must "receive a high-school diploma, a GED, or certificate of proficiency." Of course my son will have a diploma, but I'll issue it myself ...

Can I just print out my transcript, sign it, stick it in an envelope, and mail it? Will they accept it?

 

Thanks so much for any advice and btdt experience!

[Running the race]

Farmgirl, may I ask what the 'hiccup' was? This is my fear -- that something will go wrong with the final transcript and they'll say, when it's far too late to go to any other schools, "Wait a minute -- he's homeschooled?!? We take it back!"

 

I've heard of some schools (not necessarily CSU/UC) that want the transcript notarized, etc. ... UCSD says something on their website about how homeschooled students must "receive a high-school diploma, a GED, or certificate of proficiency." Of course my son will have a diploma, but I'll issue it myself ...

Can I just print out my transcript, sign it, stick it in an envelope, and mail it? Will they accept it?

 

Thanks so much for any advice and btdt experience!

 

I'd love to know about the hiccup also.

[Pepper Potts]

It isn't a big deal to cover all these in an academic home school situation. The issue is that UC regulates which texts you can use and/or which classes you can use to meet the requirements. You must use an "a-g approved" text or an "a-g approved" class. (Or SAT2s, etc.)

 

So if I'm a "private school" homeschooler via R-4(private school affidavit), all I need to do is use a certain textbook and then ds can say it's an approved course on his college apps? Or is there an approval process one needs to go through like one can for AP course approval?

 

I've never heard of this route before. Would be great to know...

[yvonne]

I should have said it's not a big deal to cover the actual subject matter/material in a home school. It is hard to do it in a way that is a-g approved.

 

I'm not sure how one does it as an R-4/"private school" home schooler. We're homeschooling under a charter specifically so that we can get a-g credit for some courses my boys are taking this year. 

 

I know you can't just use an a-g approved text and say you've completed an a-g course because I'm having that problem with French. The charter doesn't offer an a-g approved French III course. I can easily look up what text/s the local private schools use for their a-g approved French III class. However, since the charter does not have an a-g approved "course" recognized by the UC system, even if we do the same texts as the local high school, I can't call it an a-g course. When I asked the charter to get a French III syllabus a-g approved, the guidance person said it was "a lot of trouble" and "could take a couple of years." Who knows how accurate that is; I imagine she just didn't want to bother. But, it implies that there is some process through UC by which a school has to get an a-g syllabus approved.

 

On the UC site, there's info on submitting a course for a-g approval. If you look into it, I'd be curious about what you find out, if you wouldn't mind pm'ing me. It looks way too onerous for me. The more I find out about a-g, the more tempted I am to just toss the whole a-g hoop jumping as a lot of work for little return.

[Crimson Wife]

I've heard of some schools (not necessarily CSU/UC) that want the transcript notarized, etc. ... UCSD says something on their website about how homeschooled students must "receive a high-school diploma, a GED, or certificate of proficiency." Of course my son will have a diploma, but I'll issue it myself ...

Can I just print out my transcript, sign it, stick it in an envelope, and mail it? Will they accept it?

I don't have any BTDT experience, but I would imagine that the CHSPE would count as a "certificate of proficiency". Most of the HSers I know who have their teens home for high school have them take that test.

[Ellie]

I don't have any BTDT experience, but I would imagine that the CHSPE would count as a "certificate of proficiency". Most of the HSers I know who have their teens home for high school have them take that test.

 

Yes, the CHSPE would be the certificate of proficiency (for those not in California, CHSPE is "California High School Proficiency Exam." It is a 10th grade-level test; it may be taken by any student at least 16yo or in the second semester of 10th grade.)

[Laura in CA]

I don't have any BTDT experience, but I would imagine that the CHSPE would count as a "certificate of proficiency". Most of the HSers I know who have their teens home for high school have them take that test.

 

Yes, I imagine it would ... the problem is that my son is a senior and will miss the March date for the CHSPE (several of his friends are taking it next weekend, though), and if he takes it at the next sitting the result may come too late for fall university admission. Plus ... well ... he's been taking upper-division classes at the local Cal State and it just seems insulting to have to take a high-school proficiency exam, you know? I'm thinking that since we are legally recognized by the state of California (R-4/PSA) as a school, my diploma should be good enough. Since my son is excited about going to UC Berkeley (which I never expected; he wasn't even going to apply there a few months ago, and now it's the front-runner among the schools he's been admitted to), though, I don't want to take any chances! I probably would have had him take the CHSPE if I'd known he would become interested in the UCs ... they were always just his backup schools! 

 

I think I'll call Berkeley this week and ask ... and try to find out from homeschoolers who've successfully enrolled at UC/CSU how it all worked (Farmgirl? :)  and others ...)

[idnib]

Too bad it's not as easy as getting an AP course certified.

 

From http://www.ucop.edu/agguide/updating-your-course-list/school-program/index.html:

 

"California high schools are eligible to establish an “a-g†course list if they are a diploma-granting institution and are accredited by a regional accrediting agency."

[Farmgirl70]

I'd love to know about the hiccup also.

When my kids were accepted at SFState, their acceptance was also "conditional, subject to approval of final transcript."  I had called and informed them that my dd had been homeschooled and had been told, "No problem.  Just send in her transcript in June."  I actually had that conversation a couple of times.  So, when I sent her transcript in June it was flagged.  I called to see what the problem was.  They had two problems:

 

1.  I had listed 3  1/2 credit fine arts classes, and they wanted one full year fine arts credit.  (Silly, in my mind).  That they said I could just rename as one course and resubmit the transcript.

 

2.  This was the problem that was harder to overcome. They asked, "So, you'll be sending a transcript from her school, right?"  They had assumed an umbrella school.  So, we had lengthy conversations about the validity of "mommy" transcripts and California law about homeschooling.  It was a stressful couple of weeks and I tried my best to be persistent, informative and friendly.  I figured that this admissions person had to be my friend.  Ultimately, they were polite and direct.  The admissions director had worked there for 15 years and apparently had not come across homeschoolers like us before. (Not sure how that is possible.)  She said she'd take our case to a department meeting--that they needed to make sure that whatever precedent they established would hold true in the future.  They were concerned for the legality of it.  Just before the final deadline in July, I got a call that she had been accepted.  I didn't get many details about their meeting.  However, when my son applied the next fall, I called the same lady in admissions and reminded her of who I was, thanked her for her work on our behalf, and asked if there was anything I should know if our son was applying.  She said to just apply as usual, but she did take his name so she could look out for his application.  Everything went smoothly with him.  They did have me mail in an official transcript before his initial acceptance.  But all went well.

[Pepper Potts]

 

When my kids were accepted at SFState, their acceptance was also "conditional, subject to approval of final transcript."  I had called and informed them that my dd had been homeschooled and had been told, "No problem.  Just send in her transcript in June."  I actually had that conversation a couple of times.  So, when I sent her transcript in June it was flagged.  I called to see what the problem was.  They had two problems:

 

1.  I had listed 3  1/2 credit fine arts classes, and they wanted one full year fine arts credit.  (Silly, in my mind).  That they said I could just rename as one course and resubmit the transcript.

 

2.  This was the problem that was harder to overcome. They asked, "So, you'll be sending a transcript from her school, right?"  They had assumed an umbrella school.  So, we had lengthy conversations about the validity of "mommy" transcripts and California law about homeschooling.  It was a stressful couple of weeks and I tried my best to be persistent, informative and friendly.  I figured that this admissions person had to be my friend.  Ultimately, they were polite and direct.  The admissions director had worked there for 15 years and apparently had not come across homeschoolers like us before. (Not sure how that is possible.)  She said she'd take our case to a department meeting--that they needed to make sure that whatever precedent they established would hold true in the future.  They were concerned for the legality of it.  Just before the final deadline in July, I got a call that she had been accepted.  I didn't get many details about their meeting.  However, when my son applied the next fall, I called the same lady in admissions and reminded her of who I was, thanked her for her work on our behalf, and asked if there was anything I should know if our son was applying.  She said to just apply as usual, but she did take his name so she could look out for his application.  Everything went smoothly with him.  They did have me mail in an official transcript before his initial acceptance.  But all went well.

 

 

Thank you Farmgirl70. This is VERY useful information. On behalf of all homeschooling moms in CA, way to represent!!  :001_wub:

One CSU down, 22 more to go (And 9 UCs...) I'll keep your method in mind when ds applies next fall. Perhaps we need to just fight the fight (politely of course) school by school and hope that over time they'll be more accepting of our independent homeschoolers -- hey a girl can dream!  :D

I think ds will just take aim at a couple next fall -- not the other 31  :svengo: