What Colleges Do Not Accept Latin for Admissions

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I've seen several threads over the years that caution families that Latin might not fulfill the foreign language admissions requirements for college applications.

 

I've done some searching but haven't come up with much of a list of schools that actually have a stated preference for modern spoken languages.

 

So, if you know of a school that does not accept Latin as fulfilling the foreign language requirement for admissions or if you know of a school that takes Latin with reservations please add it here.

 

If you can link to the page that states requirements, that would helpful for future readers who want to see if policies changed.

 

If you know of a school that takes Latin for ADMISSIONS but has some restriction for COLLEGE GRADUATION go ahead and add that too.

 

What I've found so far:

 

Air Force Academy – Latin does not fulfill admissions requirement

Modern Foreign Language*: 2 years

*We look for modern foreign languages (any language except Latin) with an emphasis on strategic languages such as Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Spanish, German, French, Portuguese and Russian.

 

BTW, even though I've seen threads that warn that "service academies" will not accept Latin, so far as I can find, only the Air Force Academy has actually stated this as an issue. The USAFA Admissions page states "modern foreign language" in their academic recommendations; on the page for recommendations for homeschoolers, they specify no Latin.

 

Grove City College – Latin does not completely fulfill college graduation requirement

 

Foreign language: Students pursuing a Bachelor of Arts major or a non-science Bachelor of Science major will be required to complete a full year of the intermediate level of a foreign language at Grove City College, unless they meet one of the following criteria:

• 3 years of the same modern, widely-spoken foreign language during high school, such as Chinese, French, German, or Spanish, with an average grade of “B†or higher will fully meet the foreign language requirement, or

• 3 years of the same classical written language during high school, such as Latin, New Testament Greek, or Biblical Hebrew with a “B†or higher grade average will partially fulfill the foreign language requirement. Students must complete two additional courses as outlined in the “General Education and Degree Programs†section under the “Foreign Language†guidelines.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Did I mention I'm on day two of watching packers pack and am in need of diversion?

[brookspr]

I would like to know this as well, so far most of the colleges/universities I have looked at offer Latin so I would assume they accept Latin as a foreign language.  My daughter will be homeschooling her freshman year next year so I am trying to plan ahead.  Our local high school also offers Latin as a language.  Wondering if I should have her continue French as well since she had three years in PS grades 5,6,7.  She is interested in studying music in college and I think Latin would be a good fit for that.

[Vida Winter]

General heads-up -- some universities do not accept any foreign language unless it is from an accredited school - this would mean Latin and all other languages as well. Dd is planning on taking French from Brigham Young University online high school - they probably offer Latin but you'd have to check. The alternative would be to take a SAT Subject Test.

[snowbeltmom]

General heads-up -- some universities do not accept any foreign language unless it is from an accredited school - this would mean Latin and all other languages as well.

 

Could you provide the names of the universities you have come across with this policy?  Thanks!

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Vida Winter, have you found this to be the case for considering students for admissions or for granting college credit or doing college placement?

 

Naming names and giving links would help. I find myself wondering how much of the Latin reservations are conventional wisdom. Just as an example the service academy caveat seems to only apply to USAFA.

 

Having said that I could see a school being dubious of homeschool language credit given what I've seen of Rosetta Stone and once a week coop options.

 

Eta I don't think all accredited courses are necessarily what's needed but a seasoning of outside courses and test scores like NLE or SAT subject or national language exams can help substantiate work done.

Although 20 years old, this study is interesting.  After polling 1,091 four year colleges (in 1991), only 5 were found that required some foreign language for admissions, but did not accept Latin.  Other surprises in this report include how much fluctuation there has been in the last 50 years for these requirements.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Although 20 years old, this study is interesting. After polling 1,091 four year colleges (in 1991), only 5 were found that required some foreign language for admissions, but did not accept Latin. Other surprises in this report include how much fluctuation there has been in the last 50 years for these requirements.

That was interesting. I wonder if ACL has updated info.

 

The article author is the current editor/author of Wheelocks.

[flyingiguana]

Most high school language courses don't count for anything - homeschool or otherwise.  Which is why colleges have placement tests for languages.

[Ms. Riding Hood]

Nebraska-Lincoln *accepted* ds with Latin, but then after the fact notified us that ds would have to take his language requirement in college.  When pushed, they said that ds could take a proficiency exam and if he scored well enough the requirement would be waived.  The person I spoke with said that ds lacked a "spoken component", and that was the problem. (Truly, the whole thing was kind of fuzzy.  At one point the man argued, "But surely he could benefit from further language study?") I mentioned that Latin in general does not have a spoken component, no matter what the setting--p.s., private academy, homeschool, whatever--other than typical chanting or possibly singing.  So in this case it appeared they were discriminating particularly against ds as a homeschooler, since apparently Latin is accepted from other schools.

 

He did not want to take a proficiency exam (having taken his last Latin as a 10th grader).  I wish, with hindsight, that I had had him do the NLE.  

 

Now, mysteriously, the requirement seems to have been dropped from his list of things that "needs attention".  I'm not asking any questions.

[Vida Winter]

Could you provide the names of the universities you have come across with this policy?  Thanks!

 

 

The one in question is Oregon State University. I'm not sure if other Oregon public Universities have this requirement but OSU seems to be particularly picky. There is absolutely no way to get around the requirement of accredited language high school credits other than testing out (SAT2, CLEP, AP) or taking the required language credits at the uni as a requirement for graduation.

[Vida Winter]

Vida Winter, have you found this to be the case for considering students for admissions or for granting college credit or doing college placement?

 

Naming names and giving links would help. I find myself wondering how much of the Latin reservations are conventional wisdom. Just as an example the service academy caveat seems to only apply to USAFA.

 

Having said that I could see a school being dubious of homeschool language credit given what I've seen of Rosetta Stone and once a week coop options.

 

Eta I don't think all accredited courses are necessarily what's needed but a seasoning of outside courses and test scores like NLE or SAT subject or national language exams can help substantiate work done.

 

I replied above that the school in question is Oregon State University; the info below is from their website. They require three SAT subject tests from homeschool applicants, and one of them may cover the foreign language requirement. They absolutely would not accept a high school course that was not accredited (even if it were taught by a certified instructor).

 

Not sure which other universities have this requirement (it would not surprise me if other Oregon state schools are similar). It seems like they go out of their way to make it difficult for homeschool students, but better to know early and plan accordingly.

May be met in any one of these ways:

• Completing two years of the same high school-level foreign language
• Earning grade of C- or higher in the third year of high school-level foreign language
• Completing two consecutive quarters of the same college-level foreign language
• Earning a satisfactory score on an approved assessment of foreign language knowledge
• Demonstrating proficiency in American Sign Language (ASL)
• Completion of grades 1-7 at a school in which all courses are taught in a language other than English. (Documentation is required.)

[RootAnn]

 

Nebraska-Lincoln *accepted* ds with Latin, but then after the fact notified us that ds would have to take his language requirement in college.  When pushed, they said that ds could take a proficiency exam and if he scored well enough the requirement would be waived.  The person I spoke with said that ds lacked a "spoken component", and that was the problem.

 

That particular university is not overly homeschool friendly. Their foreign language requirement has gotten more lenient over the years with this being the current requirement (for homeschoolers only):

Students who have taken courses in foreign language must include a description of how they learned the verbal component of the language (i.e. tutor, tapes)

 

They used to only accept foreign language credits from when you were in a 'classroom setting.' There is no mention of Latin not being acceptable, however. (But you are the only homeschooling mom to ever have a kid go there, so hats off!)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

 

I replied above that the school in question is Oregon State University; the info below is from their website. They require three SAT subject tests from homeschool applicants, and one of them may cover the foreign language requirement. They absolutely would not accept a high school course that was not accredited (even if it were taught by a certified instructor).

 

Not sure which other universities have this requirement (it would not surprise me if other Oregon state schools are similar). It seems like they go out of their way to make it difficult for homeschool students, but better to know early and plan accordingly.

May be met in any one of these ways:

• Completing two years of the same high school-level foreign language
• Earning grade of C- or higher in the third year of high school-level foreign language
• Completing two consecutive quarters of the same college-level foreign language
• Earning a satisfactory score on an approved assessment of foreign language knowledge
• Demonstrating proficiency in American Sign Language (ASL)
• Completion of grades 1-7 at a school in which all courses are taught in a language other than English. (Documentation is required.)

 

 

Thanks for the link.  I'll try to add that info to the original post. 

 

[Ms. Riding Hood]

 

 

 

 

That particular university is not overly homeschool friendly. Their foreign language requirement has gotten more lenient over the years with this being the current requirement (for homeschoolers only):

 

This is SO interesting to me, because I would swear that that particular bit of information wasn't there when we were applying and later fighting them over this.  In fact, I specifically argued the point that *nowhere* was there any mention of such a requirement for homeschoolers.  Huh.  Then again, I"ve been wrong before.  But I read everything I could find on their website talking about language requirements, homeschool, and the intersection of the two.  Then again, it seems like much of their requirements have been changed (curriculum synopsis of the courses which parallel the University of Nebraska–Lincoln's 16 core course requirement, detailed description of how the applicant fulfilled the natural science laboratory requirement).  I'm pretty sure I would have freaked over these requirements, and we most likely wouldn't have even tried to apply.  I don't like homeschool-unfriendly.  The market is WIDE open and I'll go elsewhere! 

 

They used to only accept foreign language credits from when you were in a 'classroom setting.' There is no mention of Latin not being acceptable, however. (But you are the only homeschooling mom to ever have a kid go there, so hats off!)

 

You mean the only mom on this board?  Because I can't be the only homeschooling mom to have a kid go there.  I'd be shocked if I was the only mom on this board, even.  Or did you mean something else? 

 

[Corraleno]

Thanks for the link.  I'll try to add that info to the original post. 

 

There's nothing in that link that says they don't accept Latin, though.

 

And the linked page also says that students can be admitted without 2 yrs of foreign language, they just have to pass 2 quarters of FL at OSU in order to graduate. Many colleges have a FL requirement for graduation, so that doesn't seem that unusual to me. 

[regentrude]

Most high school language courses don't count for anything - homeschool or otherwise.  Which is why colleges have placement tests for languages.

 

That may be for college credit.

But high school language courses must still count to satisfy the admission requirements - otherwise it would make no sense to require 2-4 years of high school foreign language classes for admission.

 

That was interesting. I wonder if ACL has updated info.

 

I haven't been able to find any.  Another amazing statistic was that in 1991, only 30% of surveyed four year colleges required any foreign language.  I think that's changed a lot recently, or maybe it was very skewed based on the competitiveness of a school.

[Vida Winter]

There's nothing in that link that says they don't accept Latin, though.

 

And the linked page also says that students can be admitted without 2 yrs of foreign language, they just have to pass 2 quarters of FL at OSU in order to graduate. Many colleges have a FL requirement for graduation, so that doesn't seem that unusual to me. 

 

The only reason I mentioned it is that one might think that a school would accept a non-accredited foreign language credit - I certainly didn't realize it until I spoke with admissions at OSU, even after reading the linked page. My older daughter took two years of honors Spanish with Senor Gamache of La Clase Divertida, online. It would not have counted at all unless she passed a SAT2. It turns out she didn't even apply to OSU so it was a non-issue for her. My next dd is interested in OSU's marine science program, so she will have to deal with the requirements no matter what language she chooses.

[Corraleno]

The only reason I mentioned it is that one might think that a school would accept a non-accredited foreign language credit - I certainly didn't realize it until I spoke with admissions at OSU, even after reading the linked page. My older daughter took two years of honors Spanish with Senor Gamache of La Clase Divertida, online. It would not have counted at all unless she passed a SAT2.

 

But when you say it "wouldn't count," you mean it wouldn't fulfill OSU's graduation requirement, not their admissions requirement, right? I.e., if she attended OSU, she'd have to either pass some sort of proficiency test or take a 2nd-semester Spanish class in order to graduate. She could still have been admitted with unaccredited Spanish classes.

 

By way of comparison, our state university requires that all Arts & Science majors demonstrate competence in a foreign language equal to a 4th semester college class in order to graduate, and HS classes don't count for that at all — you can either pass an exam (AP, CLEP, or a departmental exam) or take the class(es). I thought that was fairly standard, so the fact that OSU will actually waive the foreign language requirement for students with accredited HS classes seems generous to me in comparison! 

 

ETA: I just looked at the foreign language requirement for a BA from University of Oregon, and they also require the equivalent of 2 yrs of college level language, which can be demonstrated either by exam (e.g. AP) or by passing at least a 6th term class (3rd term of a 2nd-yr level) — it doesn't say that they would accept any HS language courses, accredited or not, in fulfillment of that requirement.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

FWIW-

More positive than negative I think but...

 

College of William and Mary:

"Is foreign language required?

There is no foreign language requirement for applicants. However, W&M requires its graduates to be proficient through four semesters of a foreign language. If a prospective student has taken four years of a single foreign language, he/she is automatically exempt from the foreign language requirement at W&M. Therefore, we recommend four years of a foreign language, but it is not required."

 

They do not specify modern languages and refer to the course catalog so... since the catalog includes Latin...but I have never specifically asked.

 

http://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/faqs/academics/index.php

 

and for University of Virginia:

 

There doesn't seem to be an admissions requirement but there is an Undergrad requirement-Latin can be met either via an SATII or AP exam or (they seem to imply) through departmental placement exams.

 

http://college.artsandsciences.virginia.edu/fl-placement-index

 

 

It does seem a bit hard to tease out which are admissions requirements with regard to Latin and other foreign languages and what are areas where folks are trying to meet an undergrad requirement ahead of time.

 

[G5052]

Yes, I've seen the same ambiguity.  "No language required BUT..."  

 

Admissions people have told me to document the foreign language classes with test scores.  One in particular said they want at least 2-3 AP/SAT II's for homeschooled applicants, preferably with one foreign language score.  All of the schools we're looking at require a foreign language for many of their degrees, but you can get out of it with a good AP or SAT II score.  Just to be sure, we're doing both in May-June.

 

All were good with Latin except for Grove City, and that was a reach school anyway.  My oldest is seriously talking about staying local because of a particular program anyway, and they want a foreign language SAT II from homeschooled students (not on the website, I was told this).

 

 

[RootAnn]

 

This is SO interesting to me, because I would swear that that particular bit of information wasn't there when we were applying and later fighting them over this.  In fact, I specifically argued the point that *nowhere* was there any mention of such a requirement for homeschoolers.  Huh.  Then again, I"ve been wrong before.  But I read everything I could find on their website talking about language requirements, homeschool, and the intersection of the two.  Then again, it seems like much of their requirements have been changed (curriculum synopsis of the courses which parallel the University of Nebraska–Lincoln's 16 core course requirement, detailed description of how the applicant fulfilled the natural science laboratory requirement).  I'm pretty sure I would have freaked over these requirements, and we most likely wouldn't have even tried to apply.  I don't like homeschool-unfriendly.  The market is WIDE open and I'll go elsewhere! 

 

They used to only accept foreign language credits from when you were in a 'classroom setting.' There is no mention of Latin not being acceptable, however. (But you are the only homeschooling mom to ever have a kid go there, so hats off!)

 

You mean the only mom on this board?  Because I can't be the only homeschooling mom to have a kid go there.  I'd be shocked if I was the only mom on this board, even.  Or did you mean something else? 

 

Sorry about that wording. I had trouble with that sentence & revised it several times. UNL is my alma mater, so I keep tabs on it. I have never heard of anyone IRL (or seen anyone on here) who had a homeschool-graduate attend UNL. I've heard of a few people's kids (through the alumni grapevine) who applied, but they ran into those two requirements ('classroom setting' for languages & the lab sciences requirement - which used to be quite the bugger since they used to require a 'certified teacher' to supervise the lab. There was a rumor they didn't accept Apologia texts, but that wasn't ever on the website). I've just personally never heard of a homeschooler who attended UNL. I know there are probably several each year, I've just never heard of any. The hoops were too cumbersome for the value.

 

The 'homeschooler' page is new, but there has been homeschool-only guidelines on their admissions page for 5+ years. (I started looking when I started homeschooling my oldest, something like eight years ago.) 

[Ms. Riding Hood]

Sorry about that wording. I had trouble with that sentence & revised it several times. UNL is my alma mater, so I keep tabs on it. I have never heard of anyone IRL (or seen anyone on here) who had a homeschool-graduate attend UNL. I've heard of a few people's kids (through the alumni grapevine) who applied, but they ran into those two requirements ('classroom setting' for languages & the lab sciences requirement - which used to be quite the bugger since they used to require a 'certified teacher' to supervise the lab. There was a rumor they didn't accept Apologia texts, but that wasn't ever on the website). I've just personally never heard of a homeschooler who attended UNL. I know there are probably several each year, I've just never heard of any. The hoops were too cumbersome for the value.

 

The 'homeschooler' page is new, but there has been homeschool-only guidelines on their admissions page for 5+ years. (I started looking when I started homeschooling my oldest, something like eight years ago.) 

Ohhhh, thanks for clarifying.  Well I can attest that I did not submit all that they are asking for on that page and certainly didn't document lab science.  I vaguely remember a page addressed to homeschool students, but it has absolutely been updated and revised...and not in a good way.  :/  That's too bad.  I'm glad I looked it up, though.  If my next ds is hoping to go there, we might have to rethink it.  Maybe I should write UNL and tell them that?   Go Huskers! :)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

So I think I will only edit the list at the top when there is a requirement or limitation that only applies to Latin or other "non-modern" languages.

 

I appreciate any other comments about language restrictions but I want to keep the op list focused on Latin.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

USC (California) will not use an AP score in Latin to assess foreign language transfer credit. Thus high school Latin through AP will not meet the college graduation requirement.

http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/apply/trans_credit.html

 

The above link is broken.  Searching again for the USC policy, I'm not finding a restriction related to Latin.  But they require (as a college graduation requirement) either coursework taken at USC or a placement test score equivalent to the required coursework, or an exemption by national/state exam as requested by an advisor or a USC competency exam given by USC faculty. 

 

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Univ of Washington uses a world languages category but includes ASL, Latin and Greek in the description. They exclude computer languages and non-ASL deaf signing. (And describe acceptable languages as natural language, presumably excluding Klingon Elvish and Esperanto. )

 

http://admit.washington.edu/Admission/Freshmen/CADR#world-languages

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Tangentially related. State ps graduation requirements for foreign language as of 2010. Might influence how state unis view languages.

 

http://www.ncssfl.org/docs/States%20with%20Foreign%20Language%20Graduation%20Requirements%20-%20%20Revised%202010.pdf

 

I'm packing up our big computer as soon as our online Latin class is over. So I probably won't pretty up the list for a few weeks. But I'll keep tossing links in.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

bump

 

BTW, please don't just say that you've heard that some colleges won't take Latin.  The point of this thread is to specifically list colleges who will not accept Latin - taken in high school - as meeting the college admissions requirements. 

 

If you do know of a specific school that does this, name it and if possible, link to their policy on their website.

 

 

 

[JadeOrchidSong]

A side question: If both parents speak their native language 99% of the time to their homeschooled children and also teach them the reading and writing of that langauge, and the children were born in the US but do not have lots of exposure to oral English except on two co-op days a month and a weekly kids' Bible class at an English speaking church, would this native language meet foreign language admission requirement? These children are fluent in the native language and are taught to read and write since age 6. The eldest (tween) reads and writes well in English, but is not very good at speaking it.

[OneStepAtATime]

A side question: If both parents speak their native language 99% of the time to their homeschooled children and also teach them the reading and writing of that langauge, and the children were born in the US but do not have lots of exposure to oral English except on two co-op days a month and a weekly kids' Bible class at an English speaking church, would this native language meet foreign language admission requirement? These children are fluent in the native language and are taught to read and write since age 6. The eldest (tween) reads and writes well in English, but is not very good at speaking it.

For this in particular I would think an outside accepted language test such as mentioned in posts above would be a way to prove they knew another language.  Surely most colleges would accept it if they passed that test (assuming there IS a test for the other language - I know someone on here posted once that there isn't one that is acceptable at most U.S. colleges for her native tongue).

[regentrude]

A side question: If both parents speak their native language 99% of the time to their homeschooled children and also teach them the reading and writing of that langauge, and the children were born in the US but do not have lots of exposure to oral English except on two co-op days a month and a weekly kids' Bible class at an English speaking church, would this native language meet foreign language admission requirement? These children are fluent in the native language and are taught to read and write since age 6. The eldest (tween) reads and writes well in English, but is not very good at speaking it.

 

Yes, why not? I would make sure to continue instruction through the high school years, so that the kids have a credit for the language for each year, and I would try to substantiate the foreign language mastery by a standardized test if it is a language for which a test  is available. I would elaborate on the specific immersion method of instruction in the course description and the school profile, or describe the experience in the counselor's letter.

 

I would also make sure they receive more English exposure. I would be concerned that a tween born in the US is not yet fluent in English, both from an educational point of view, and because it indicates an upbringing isolated in an immigrant community.

[chiguirre]

I would also make sure they receive more English exposure. I would be concerned that a tween born in the US is not yet fluent in English, both from an educational point of view, and because it indicates an upbringing isolated in an immigrant community.

I have to agree with Regentrude, English fluency is absolutely essential to be able to live a productive adult life in the US. I'm also amazed that the kids haven't mastered spoken English if they were born here. Every kid I know who speaks Spanish at home sounded like a native born American after living here for a year if they came before high school, even those who live in Miami in an environment where Spanish is spoken everywhere, all the time. 

[OneStepAtATime]

I have to agree with Regentrude, English fluency is absolutely essential to be able to live a productive adult life in the US. I'm also amazed that the kids haven't mastered spoken English if they were born here. Every kid I know who speaks Spanish at home sounded like a native born American after living here for a year if they came before high school, even those who live in Miami in an environment where Spanish is spoken everywhere, all the time. 

I agree that English fluency is very important (although I have friends working here in the states that are not fluent but are doing well) and I would definitely encourage working on that.

 

However, regarding the bolded, fwiw, I would like to point out that not all kids become proficient in spoken English  just through exposure if another language is their primary.  I have a friend who has been here since she was 8.  Her native language is Spanish.  She is now married and has two kids.  She has lived in the States since she came here a couple of decades ago.  She went to ps.  Her accent is still incredibly thick and her spoken English is just not nearly as good as her written English.  

 

I have a friend who is Russian.  Her husband is from Columbia.  Their kids were born here.  They went to private school then a charter school that is only English speaking.  They all have a very unusual accent.  Their written English is much easier to understand than their spoken English.

[wapiti]

To be honest it jumped out to me also that the tween isn't very fluent and I would focus on that for all the kids.

 

FWIW, my dh was born here but his only language was Spanish until he went to public school around 6 y.o.  He never had a problem with English and 4-5 years later was admitted to a top magnet school in NYC for middle and high school.  That was a different era, however, and it seems to me that he actively tried to "forget" Spanish as ability to speak Spanish was not recognized as a positive attribute in that time and place.  (He has never had an accent that I'm aware of, nor do his siblings.  He can "put on" an accent on purpose but that's just for fun.  He would struggle to maintain a long conversation in Spanish - I've never seen him do it.)  Eta, OTOH, MIL has a very strong accent even after 60 years, though she speaks Spanish to many of her current friends on a daily basis; I think she arrived around 16 y.o. but she did not attend school.

[regentrude]

I agree that English fluency is very important (although I have friends working here in the states that are not fluent but are doing well) and I would definitely encourage working on that.

 

However, regarding the bolded, fwiw, I would like to point out that not all kids become proficient in spoken English  just through exposure if another language is their primary.  I have a friend who has been here since she was 8.  Her native language is Spanish.  She is now married and has two kids.  She has lived in the States since she came here a couple of decades ago.  She went to ps.  Her accent is still incredibly thick and her spoken English is just not nearly as good as her written English.  

I have a friend who is Russian.  Her husband is from Columbia.  Their kids were born here.  They went to private school then a charter school that is only English speaking.  They all have a very unusual accent.  Their written English is much easier to understand than their spoken English.

 

Having a strong accent is not the same thing as not being proficient.

 

I agree that some people never lose their accent, and that they may remain hard to understand unless they undergo a professional accent reduction program with a speech pathologist. I have friends who have been in this country for several decades and still sound as if they just stepped off the boat. But those people usually are still proficient in language use, able to converse fluently in all kinds of situations, and understand spoken English.

[OneStepAtATime]

To be honest it jumped out to me also that the tween isn't very fluent and I would focus on that for all the kids.

 

FWIW, my dh was born here but his only language was Spanish until he went to public school around 6 y.o. He never had a problem with English and 4-5 years later was admitted to a top magnet school in NYC for middle and high school. That was a different era, however, and it seems to me that he actively tried to "forget" Spanish as ability to speak Spanish was not recognized as a positive attribute in that time and place. (He has never had an accent that I'm aware of, nor do his siblings. He can "put on" an accent on purpose but that's just for fun. He would struggle to maintain a long conversation in Spanish - I've never seen him do it.)

I think the bottom line here is that some kids pick up other languages more easily than others. If they are struggling then more systematic, structured exposure with native speakers might be helpful.

[OneStepAtATime]

Having a strong accent is not the same thing as not being proficient.

 

I agree that some people never lose their accent, and that they may remain hard to understand unless they undergo a professional accent reduction program with a speech pathologist. I have friends who have been in this country for several decades and still sound as if they just stepped off the boat. But those people usually are still proficient in language use, able to converse fluently in all kinds of situations, and understand spoken English.

Agreed.

 

With the kids I spoke of they do understand and can converse in English. They are just kind of hard to understand. That is not the same as not being proficient.

 

For my friend, she struggles to understand rapid conversations and her vocabulary and grammar is off. She still does better with Spanish than English. Only Spanish is spoken at home, though.

[Love_to_Read]

Yes, oral fluency and a native-English accent is easier to pick up before the teen years, so while I would be VERY proud of raising children who are bilingually literate, I would try to arrange more English-speaking activities with native speakers for the tween before that window of opportunity closes.  Even watching more t.v. for the listening skills might help, with the closed captioning turned on if necessary at first to provide the written words as support. There are some good educational programs that may relate to the subjects you are studying for school, which would help with academic spoken English.  Perhaps calling friends from co-op on the phone or on Skype might be another option for adding more social spoken English  with native speakers while at home.

 

Some students who speak a language other than English at home will be required to take the TOEFL to prove English fluency for college admission, but usually there is a presumption of fluency based on the number of years in the country.  Children who have been here since elementary school are likely exempt or excluded from TOEFL, but it's worth looking directly at colleges in the same manner as this thread is collecting links.

[regentrude]

Some students who speak a language other than English at home will be required to take the TOEFL to prove English fluency for college admission, but usually there is a presumption of fluency based on the number of years in the country.  Children who have been here since elementary school are likely exempt or excluded from TOEFL, but it's worth looking directly at colleges in the same manner as this thread is collecting links.

 

How would the college know how long the kid has been in the country?

The issue never came up during DD's college application process, and I do not recall anybody asking how many years we lived in the US.

[Love_to_Read]

I have friends who had it come up somehow...I think perhaps their child may have had an ESL class on his high school transcript, after they sent him to public school, and may have been lacking the necessary credits or grades in the standard French, Spanish, etc. that people normally take.  Probably unlikely to come up for a homeschool graduate with a parent-created transcript that doesn't say ESL on it, but it might if you were trying to qualify for foreign language exemption by specifically mentioning native language fluency, particularly if the native language was not studied formally in high school for credit and/or if the native language is not one commonly studied in the US.  

 

Sorry to get so far afield from the original question about Latin.

 

[TranquilMind]

I've seen several threads over the years that caution families that Latin might not fulfill the foreign language admissions requirements for college applications.

 

I've done some searching but haven't come up with much of a list of schools that actually have a stated preference for modern spoken languages.

 

So, if you know of a school that does not accept Latin as fulfilling the foreign language requirement for admissions or if you know of a school that takes Latin with reservations please add it here.

 

If you can link to the page that states requirements, that would helpful for future readers who want to see if policies changed.

 

If you know of a school that takes Latin for ADMISSIONS but has some restriction for COLLEGE GRADUATION go ahead and add that too.

 

What I've found so far:

 

Air Force Academy – Latin does not fulfill admissions requirement

Modern Foreign Language*: 2 years

*We look for modern foreign languages (any language except Latin) with an emphasis on strategic languages such as Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Spanish, German, French, Portuguese and Russian.

 

BTW, even though I've seen threads that warn that "service academies" will not accept Latin, so far as I can find, only the Air Force Academy has actually stated this as an issue. The USAFA Admissions page states "modern foreign language" in their academic recommendations; on the page for recommendations for homeschoolers, they specify no Latin.

 

Grove City College – Latin does not completely fulfill college graduation requirement

 

Foreign language: Students pursuing a Bachelor of Arts major or a non-science Bachelor of Science major will be required to complete a full year of the intermediate level of a foreign language at Grove City College, unless they meet one of the following criteria:

• 3 years of the same modern, widely-spoken foreign language during high school, such as Chinese, French, German, or Spanish, with an average grade of “B†or higher will fully meet the foreign language requirement, or

• 3 years of the same classical written language during high school, such as Latin, New Testament Greek, or Biblical Hebrew with a “B†or higher grade average will partially fulfill the foreign language requirement. Students must complete two additional courses as outlined in the “General Education and Degree Programs†section under the “Foreign Language†guidelines.

I think this is fascinating.  Latin is the basis for so many other languages and used to be de rigueur for all educated persons. 

 

Now they don't want it?  Wow.  It would make picking up those other languages that much easier.   

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I think this is fascinating.  Latin is the basis for so many other languages and used to be de rigueur for all educated persons. 

 

Now they don't want it?  Wow.  It would make picking up those other languages that much easier.   

 

I haven't seen any colleges that expressed that they didn't want students who had studied Latin.

 

I have seen some that indicate that Latin does not fulfill all of the college graduation requirements, typically because the school has some kind of a requirement for courses that meet a global viewpoints distribution.  World languages are seen as meeting that because of the exposure to other cultures.  Latin courses aren't always seen as meeting that req (and many history courses focused on western civ wouldn't either).

 

I've never seen a good explanation for the USAFA non-acceptance of Latin as meeting high school courses for admissions.  I guess that they are looking for students who have experience with modern spoken languages, because there is an attempt to increase the number of military officers with language proficiency.  Alas the days of speaking with diplomats and military leaders of other countries in Latin have passed astern.

[Kareni]

... Alas the days of speaking with diplomats and military leaders of other countries in Latin have passed astern.

 

There's always Rome!

 

Regards,

Kareni

[MamaSprout]

Indiana's proposed High School "college and career" diploma specifies "World Language". I don't know exactly what that means, but I know in the past, other states have followed Indiana's standards. I guess that could flow over to college admissions, or it might not matter.

 

ETA- it all looks a lot like Common Core, though.

 

ETA2- maybe ask over at the Memoria Press board- they have a high school attached to their program that only offers Latin.

[FaithManor]

That may be for college credit.

But high school language courses must still count to satisfy the admission requirements - otherwise it would make no sense to require 2-4 years of high school foreign language classes for admission.

 

This.

 

Also, for the most part, unless a student is really talented and quite advanced, I do not recommend that they attempt a higher level foreign language course at the university level coming out of high school with the standard 2-3 three years of study. Frankly, foreign language instruction is abysmal around here and most of these students despite three years of A's and maybe even an AP will still end up over their heads if they don't start at the beginning in college where material is covered quickly and expectations are much higher. Plus, there is nothing wrong at all with having a class that first or second semester that is not difficult or "easy A" if the student really was well taught.

 

Ds has three years of German and he has done remarkably well. Still, he opted to begin with German 110 in college, and we were very happy with that decision.

 

As for Latin, all of our kids have had two years of high school Latin and while I have no comprehensive list of schools who would not accept it, I can tell you that U of MI, Alma College, Northern, MTU, Ferris State, Cedarville University, Wheaton, Western Michigan, Michigan State, and others that I am not remembering off the top of my head (dd applied to quite a few schools) were all fine with it. But, Michigan is a homeschool friendly state with numerous classical homeschoolers from the Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo areas so it would be "normal" for them to see a classical language on a homeschool transcript.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

As a PSA for folks doing Latin in high school, the SAT Subject Test for Latin is only offered a couple times a year, not at every Subject test date.  We found that there were a lot of scheduling conflicts with the June exam date (some of which weren't possible to resolve).  

 

It may be worth taking the Dec Subject Test, even if another few months might improve the score somewhat.  (In our case, we're ending up with a possible testing date several months after the last Latin class for my oldest.  Taking it before the end of his third year would have been much better.)