How do you handle siblings and exclusion?

[Gentlemommy]

I have 3 girls-3, 6, and almost 9. We have two neighbor families-one with an almost 6 year old girl and three younger brothers, and one with sisters age 8 and 11. This works great most of the time! Everyone has a playmate, they go from house to house, ect. On other occasions, not so much. Today, dd6 wanted to go with dd8 to the older neighbors house, since her little friend was heading in for dinner. They all walked over together, and when they got to the door, neighbor told dd6 she couldn't come in, and went in with dd8, closing the door in dd6's face. Needless to say I was infuriated. This is not acceptable to me. I had TOLD dd8 that dd6 would be going. When the neighbors come here, everyone plays together, no problem. Dd8 gets plenty of time with just neighbor8, while dd6 plays with neighbor6. Actually, dd6 has never even been into older neighbor home. (We've only lived here a few months) So it's not that I'm expecting dd6 to be able to tag along ALL the time. When everyone comes here, (which is frequently as the other two neighbors have babies, so it's easier for me than the other moms) everyone is expected to be kind and inclusive. I can't make that happen anywhere else obviously, but I'm saddened my dd8 went along with what happened today. It's a trigger for me, girls being mean and catty and exclusive, and it just will not tolerate it. Anyway, I'm unsure of what to do here. What consequences should there be? What boundaries and rules? How often is fair to say everyone must play? I don't feel that they should always be segregated by age, even if they have age mate friends. So help me find a balance...I got very upset today at dd8 for not standing up for her sister, for feeling it was A ok to shut the door in her face, leaving her outside alone.

[regentrude]

My kids mostly had separate friends. Just because they are siblings does not mean that one kid's friend must invite the sibling into his/her house as well - just as I would not have expected them to play with their friends' siblings. It is great when it happens, and it sometimes does, but I do not dictate who my kids must play with; I would not want anybody mandate with whom I must socialize.

 

I do not think you can make rules that the neighbors have to host both your kids. You can make rules at your own house about inclusive play, but you can't insist that both your kids get to play at a neighbor's house. Your 8 y/o was in a weird position; it would have been awkward to insist to a host that the younger sibling must be invited in as well. Telling her that sister is going as well does not suffice, you should have squared that with the hosts.

You might want to have a talk with the other mom and discuss common rules.

[Entropymama]

I've had this kind of thing happen and it drove me nuts. However, you can't control your neighbor's child (and do you know how her parents feel about it? Maybe she was just being unkind but it's not going to be an ongoing thing). As for your own dd, maybe she was caught off guard and didn't know how to handle it. 

 

 

[J-rap]

I remember my kids going through similar situations.  It's hard!  Mine were all very close in age and all played together, all the time.  But, many other families didn't do it like that.  And, I can understand that an 8 year-old in another family might want to just play with the 8 year-old in your family.  It's a good time to explain to your children that it's not meant personally -- it's not really meant to be AGAINST your 6 year-old.  It's just that sometimes children like to play with same-age children.  I wouldn't get upset with your 8 year-old because probably it happened too fast for her to react or even know what to do.  How WOULD she know what to do?  You can talk to her about how to handle it if it happens again.  For example, she could gently explain to her younger sibling that she herself will be playing with the friend, and perhaps she could walk her younger sister home.  Or, your 8 year-old could explain to the friend that the 6 year-old needs to be part of the activity too, and perhaps they could all play at your house.

 

I agree that the friend handled it rudely.  Like I said, I do remember when my kids went through similar things!  It's hard for the one feeling left out.  As they get older it will certainly happen more, but then your own children may initiate the same-age get-together themselves.  In the meantime, you can certainly have an open invitation to all ages within your own home.

[Ottakee]

It was a tough situation when it happened but unless invited I would not have sent 6dd along with your older dd to a friend's house.  Playing together is great and should be encouraged but I remember going to friend's houses growing up when the mom said we MUST play with a younger sibling ALL of the time and I still remember resenting that.  Some of the time was perfectly fine but we were 3 years old and wanted to do some things without a younger sibling tagging along.

 

Also the neighbor's parents might not have been wanting to watch 6 dd and were just planning on your older one coming.  I know that if I had extras here an almost 9 year old would require less supervision from me than if a 6 year old tagged along.

 

I guess I just don't see it as that big of a deal.  I am sure there will be times when 6dd has a friend over and they won't want older dd playing with them and that will be fine.

[City Mouse]

I can understand your upset, but I would not expect the 8yr old sibling to know what to do in a situation like that.

I would agree with the PP who suggested that you talk to the other parents. To me, there could be a lot of difference in having a 8yr old come over to play and having a 6yr old come over. As a parent of older kids, I wouldn't necessarily want to deal with that.

[Starr]

I think an 8 year old knows when she's shutting her sister out. I would make it clear ahead of time when it's both girls or none. And start reminding the 6 year old that soon she will be taking her younger sister along with her from time to time. Maybe you need to call ahead.  :grouphug:

[rmtzc2009]

My kids are 8 & 10 so we can run into this situation with neighbor kids. In my home generally all the kids play together. However, there's times I realize that three's a crowd and allow a child & their friend to play indepently. I don't think it's unusual for children to have friend preferences just as we adults do. If that had happened with my boys I would just only send the boy who had gotten the invite next time. If it was clear this neighbor preferred playing with one of my children over another that would not be a problem for me. Especially with the age gap of your children. I know these situations can be difficult as we all have our own ideas of how things should work.

[Seasider]

While I understand the wanting everyone to feel included, I think there are times when siblings should be able to have individual play time with same age friends (as long as it's an additional opportunity and everyone is accepted and treated nicely when they are playing as a group).

 

For what it's worth, we have some families in our friend set that likes for all the siblings to come with wherever the oldest comes over (oldest is my youngest - and only one homeschooled - child's age). The result is that my kid doesn't often get to to have her friend/their oldest over to play, because *I* can't offer the attention required by the younger ones. A pair of 8yo girls is pretty self directed, but when the youngers come, too, I am diverted from anything else I might have needed to get done. It doesn't mean I don't like the kids, it just means I can't take a crowd.

[Susan in TX]

I simply wouldn't allow my child to go to that friend's house anymore. I would welcome the friend to come to my house if she played nicely with everyone.

 

Susan in TX

 

[bettyandbob]

I think an 8 year old knows when she's shutting her sister out. I would make it clear ahead of time when it's both girls or none. And start reminding the 6 year old that soon she will be taking her younger sister along with her from time to time. Maybe you need to call ahead.  :grouphug:

 

 

this could back fire in sibling relationships. 

 

I know my sister resented me terribly. 

[school17777]

I had a friend whose two sons where one was 1 1/2 yrs older and one was 1 1/2 yrs younger. She insisted that I had to invite both boys or none. Three were a crowd, one was sometimes left out and it was stressful for me to have both her boys over at the same time. I would have much preferred one at a time and would have been happy to set a date for the other boy to come over at another time. She would not agree to that, so we just didn't invite them over.

[Paige]

I have a rule that DD6 is not allowed to walk to houses alone. In that situation, my older girls would be responsible for walking DD back to our house. That's one of my most important rules. In turn, I usually have my girls walk other kids back to their homes and see that they go inside or at least see that they meet up with another person outside. In that situation, once DD6 was walked back to the house, DDs9 would explain the situation and I'd see how DD6 felt. You can't make the neighbor include DD6 and I can see that if she's an older 8, that the age gap may be significant. They may feel like they are babysitting and not want to have to include her all the time. I'd address the rudeness of the way it was handled, however, and teach DDs9 some words and phrases to use in those situations. It might be something like, "It's not ok to speak to my sister like that. I can't play today if she can't come over because I am playing with her today. We wanted to know if you wanted to play with us, and since you don't we'll go home. Maybe I could play with you tomorrow and little sister will do something else."

 

IMO, it's ok to tell little sister that she can't always play with older DD, but it's not ok for a host to invite one person in and not the other when they show up together. I mean, DH is welcome to go out with his friends by himself or go over for a guys' night, but if we stop by together and his friend says, "Paige's DH, you can come in, but your wife has to go home," I'd think that was really rude and be super mad if he went along with it. The fact that they showed up together and asked if she wanted to play with "them" made it a package deal this time. Maybe the little friend is too young to be expected to know that, but she has to learn sometime.

[LostSurprise]

It wouldn't occur to me that I could 'invite' one of my children into someone else's house without the permission of the parents (at least a statement of 'sure come over anytime') or the child themselves. It doesn't matter how open you usually are with the older child. Each child needs their own invitation. 

 

Yes, it may have been catty and older dd dropped the ball, but you put them in an awkward spot by insisting both go when only one had an invitation. Talk with older dd and rehearse similar situations, and if you want them to go together make sure the host child is interested in having both over. 

[Laurie4b]

I think that you need to deflate the mama bear in this  situation.  It's not only okay for kids to experience some difficulties, even some hurt, it helps them develop. Protecting dd6 from feeling excluded by girls much older than she is is unrealistic and it deprives her of the opportunity to learn to deal with hurt feelings productively.

 

In the situation you describe, you're requiring the neighbor to have your values and to invite the 6 year old just because they play together at your house.  Your house, your rules; their house, their rules.

 

Sorry. I know it's hard to see one of your kids sad. But you can help her find a way to deal with it productively.

[myfunnybunch]

:grouphug:

 

Hugs  your dd6 for being left out and to your dd8 for not quite knowing how to handle the situation gracefully and to you for wanting to protect your dd from being left out.

 

There are lots of different things at play here: relationships between the different-aged kids, sibling relationships, rules about who can and can't play, and so on. It's hard to negotiate.

 

Unless all of the families around you get together and establish some ground rules together about inclusion, you'll have to understand and expect that the rules will be different in each home. That's reasonable. Each family knows what they can and can't handle from day-to-day. We've had days where we've had all of the neighbor boys running in and out from house to house, and days when I've said, "Let's just invite A over because I really need some quiet today." I think your house rules are lovely and reasonable, and very similar to ours. In our house siblings are almost always welcome, the more the merrier. But not every family is able to handle that.

 

It's not reasonable to expect that you should be able to send your dd6 to play at someone else's house when she wasn't invited. That's placing an additional expectation on the adults in the house, and it changes the play dynamic between the children.

 

The neighbor girl handled the situation rudely. It doesn't excuse her behavior, but an 8 y.o. just plain might not know yet how to say politely, "I'm sorry, we weren't expecting you," when faced with an unexpected guest. That's an awkward situation for adults to negotiate.

 

Your dd8 probably didn't know what to do in that situation. That's a teaching opportunity. When you've cooled off, think about your expectations and then talk to her about them. Do you expect her to never play at the neighbor's unless her sister is invited too? Do you expect her to walk her sister back home and ask if she can go back to play? Do you expect her to call the neighbor first to see if dd6 is also welcome, or would you be willing to do that?

 

Hugs, momma bear. I know it's hard to see, especially when you value inclusion highly. I do too, and in our house we don't say "You can't play." Everyone is welcome. (Though I have no problem with "Not today/Come back later/It's not a good time.") But I remind my children that we need to remember to respect other families and their ways of doing things. We've had our share of "Why can't I go too?" and I gently remind the sad young person that they weren't invited this time. Then I take some extra time to play a card game or make cookies or read a book together to help soothe the hurt feelings.

 

Cat

[Aelwydd]

I would be irked at the neighbor kid's rudeness, but disappointed that dd8 would go along with poor treatment of dd6 and basically abandon her. Not cool. I think I might reenact that scene with dd8 and yourself, and let her realize how that kind of rejection by family really stings.

 

But, then I'm pretty biased against Mean Girl Syndrome today. Earlier, ds went out to join some kids in a community play ground. The group just happened to be comprised of all girls. Still, ds bravely waded in, only to have the queen bee shut the gate in his face. In response, ds went and got one of his friends to ride bikes over with him to the play area.

 

Again, ds approached the gate and again it was shut in his face. He went to open it and Mean Girl told him she was stronger.

 

He promptly pushed the gate and her aside. She huffed and shut it after him on his friend. Ds just grabbed the gate and pulled it open again. At that point, the Mean Girl posse just left. Apparently, they found the prospect of sharing the grounds too odious a thing to be borne.

 

Ds and friend rode around on their bikes in victory laps.

 

Meanwhile, QB noticed me walking Sam, our poodle. She was all squeals and "Oh how cute!" She didn't realize I was ds' mom, of course.

 

If I could have, I'd have had Sam pee on her.

 

I can't stand princess crap like that. All Jackson wanted to do was join in the game. He shared his sleds with some of those girls during the winter storm a few months back. I'm glad he stood up to the really snotty one!

[catz]

I definitely would not expect 8 year olds to competently navigate a situation like this well. Sorry OP, but sending them both over without calling first wasn't a great idea. I'm guessing this was a new situation for 8 year old to be in? I'd make sure oldest has some one-on-one with older kids of her choice without needing to always be inclusive. And continue to lay down the law about how things will go at your house most of the time. You can't control other people's children, and always making older include younger isn't a great set up for a positive long term sibling relationship. EVERYONE gets left out sometimes - younger, older, whoever. Being able to take that with grace is also something important to learn, as is knowing there is a time and a place to be inclusive.

[Paige]

It didn't sound like the kids were going over to the girl's house with a formal invitation to play. I took it as neighborhood kids knocking on the door and saying, "Do you want to play?" It would be rude if Sally had invited Suzy over and Suzy's mom made her take her little sister, but I don't think the OP or her DD did anything wrong by bringing little sister in this type of situation.

[catz]

It didn't sound like the kids were going over to the girl's house with a formal invitation to play. I took it as neighborhood kids knocking on the door and saying, "Do you want to play?" It would be rude if Sally had invited Suzy over and Suzy's mom made her take her little sister, but I don't think the OP or her DD did anything wrong by bringing little sister in this type of situation.

I don't think she did anything wrong in this way at all. I just know even with my 9 and 13 year old, sometimes I need to fully talk through a new social situation with them before sending them into it. Sometimes if I send my kids somewhere together, I need remind them that they absolutely must stay together no matter who they run into. These sort of interactions are very common in our neighborhood with a wide age range and varying kids with varying relationships. Not everyone mixes well. When my kids were younger, we certainly ran into a some situations like this, but over time we have some really clear lines about when it's big kid or little kid time and when everyone has to be inclusive. I don't think it's hurt my younger long term to be excluded sometimes. And now that's she's older, there are certainly times she wants to exclude her older sibling.