DD got every problem right on the test and got a C

[Tiramisu]

She's in ps and didn't show her work. What gets me is that the steps she didn't write were so obvious that I wouldn't have thought it necessary either. For example, what's 9 squared or 3 cubed or the square root of 49. Grrrr. 

 

She was a miserable hser and I know it's not an option but things like this really annoy me. At least it makes me appreciate having my others at home.

 

 

[Farrar]

I get it sometimes because it can be important, but the ones you mention fall into the category of "math facts" for older kids.  I mean, really.

[Kathryn]

I get it sometimes because it can be important, but the ones you mention fall into the category of "math facts" for older kids. I mean, really.

I agree.

[mathmarm]

Unless the students have had reasonable instruction and explanation by what the teacher means by "show your work" that is just something you know by the time you are a "big kid" and to deduct such a chunk of the grade is more than a tad absurd.

 

I make it explicit to my students what I expect them to be showing me and it looks different for each level.

[mom2bee]

Its not that unusual, as far as I know, especially in the upper grades.

The teacher really should have made clear what he meant by "show your work" well before test day, but let your daughter know that she isn't alone. I have lost as much as 30% of a math assignment based on poor notation and non properly formatting an assignment. :grouphug:

 

Everyone who has taken a certain Mrs. Williams class for calculus has learned to write the most explicit and detailed solutions that you've probably ever seen. (Seriously, the woman was crazy!!!). It happens in math classes. Also, fixing your notation and formatting for a set of math exercises is a lot easier than building understanding and learning the procedures. Just focus on the fact that she got all of the correct answers and knows why. Starting tonight, encourage her to take the time to write out at least one problem a day using "Teacher Approved" notation.

 

:grouphug:

[Crimson Wife]

I would suggest she ask the teacher for a re-test with the maximum grade set to a "B". The teacher might refuse, but she has nothing to lose by asking.

[Roadrunner]

Yikes. I dont know which grade that is, but our local elementary school is now having 3rd graders write out reasoning behind their solutions.

[jenamiles]

Last year in my son's 6th grade class we had the same issue.  He'd come home with F's in math because even though he showed his work, the teacher couldn't read it clearly or it wasn't lined up EXACTLY like she said it was supposed to be.  I WAS a 4th/5th grade teacher and even I was like, "SERIOUSLY!?!??!"  I won't say that is why I am now homeschooling, the high schooler was really the impetus to start, but it was one part of the kids' school I wasn't going to miss.  After 4 hours of homework every night and still failing multiple classes, I was just done.  When asking the teacher, she'd say that he had a total grasp of the material but she had to fail him because it wasn't done precisely like she wanted it.   I think this goes back to preparing them for standardized tests.  I know I expected things done a certain way to ensure they would do it on tests - circle/underline key things, blah, blah, blah.  But I never deducted major points for not doing it.

[PhotoGal]

How ridiculous! I could see docking a few points, but a C? That's crazy!

[maize]

How do you show work for simple square root facts?

[Catherine]

Welcome to the era of "test security".

 

My writing-hating son couldn't manage to get this right while he was in school and it was one of the many reasons we left. I honestly don't think it's reasonable to ask a child who is not in high school taking math beyond Arithmetic to show their work. IMO it's discrimination against children who understand math more intuitively and who don't like writing or have neat writing.

[school17777]

When ds went to b&m school for the first time in 8th grade, he went through this for the first month of school.  He and I battled "show your work" for years.  He would get a lower grade in b&m school on his math even though he got all the answers right than the kids who showed their work, but got the answers wrong.  He finally learned to show his work.  Dh said that at work even though your "solution" might make perfect sense to you, you have to be able to explain how you got your answer, so this was/is a skill that will carry through to his future.

[momacacia]

This is a fascinating discussion. Makes me worry for my math-intuitive dd doing RS and all that blasted mental math she gets before I do. :-/ 'Course, I make her explain how she got there, which strategy she used, etc., so maybe there's a point to that.

[kiana]

Wait, how on earth are you supposed to show work for 9^2 or sqrt 49? Write 9^2 = 9*9 = 81 and sqrt 49 = sqrt (7*7) = sqrt (7^2) = 7? Or are you maybe supposed to draw 9 rows of 9 dots each and flippin' count them?

 

This is ridiculous.

[Arcadia]

Wait, how on earth are you supposed to show work for 9^2 or sqrt 49? Write 9^2 = 9*9 = 81 and sqrt 49 = sqrt (7*7) = sqrt (7^2) = 7?

Yes. :lol:

While it may be silly for simple ones like these, showing working for square roots that has surds for answers are useful in middle school math.

[Serenade]

Well, I'm grateful for this thread because I'm going to show it to my 13 year old, who always complains about showing his work -- maybe he'll be convinced that it's not just me that requires this.  Although I don't make him show very simple things, either.  I do try to get him to copy the problem, and work down from there, showing his work, so that it is pretty obvious exactly how he solved the problem.

[8filltheheart]

I have a very bright 3rd grade niece who didn't "pass" the admissions test into some program bc she didn't show her work. When they asked her why, her response was that she did the first time it was a new type of problem to show them she knew how to do the work but that she didn't think she needed to do it for all the rest bc the math was easy and she knew the answers.

 

Honestly, I am stunned that they rejected her. Compliance and conforming are more important than rescuing a bright mind from complete boredom? Her answer demonstrates, IMHO, an astuteness and intelligence exceeding the adults looking at the answers and marking them all wrong.

[Laura Corin]

Here's another way of looking at it:

 

The test is set up so that you can complete it at a certain speed including showing your work

 

If you don't show your work, then you have more time for other questions

 

So if someone is 'given a break' by being allowed not to show their work (whilst others are required to) then they are essentially being given extra time to complete the test.

 

I agree that the marking criteria should be clear, but I think they should be applied across the board.

 

L

[Tiramisu]

How do you show work for simple square root facts?

 

 

Wait, how on earth are you supposed to show work for 9^2 or sqrt 49? Write 9^2 = 9*9 = 81 and sqrt 49 = sqrt (7*7) = sqrt (7^2) = 7? Or are you maybe supposed to draw 9 rows of 9 dots each and flippin' count them?

 

This is ridiculous.

 

 

Yes. :lol:

While it may be silly for simple ones like these, showing working for square roots that has surds for answers are useful in middle school math.

 

Ironically, the teacher wrote down 7 * 7 as a correction to the *show-your-work error* for the square root of 49. She obviously did not show all her work either.

[katilac]

In the teacher's defense, it's mid-October, and I find it hard to believe that "show your work" hasn't come up yet. This can't be a complete surprise. Surely they have had tests, quizzes, homework, classwork? It's possible that some students have been deliberately resistant, and this is her way of showing that she means business. I really like Laura's point of it not being fair to the kids who do take the time of writing everything out.

 

I have heard enough stories to know it's *possible* this is the very first test and the teacher never mentioned showing your work, but that's not the assumption I would make. If my kid was claiming to be caught by surprise, I would try to find some sources that might show what expectations were. Does the teacher have a web site? A syllabus, guide, or list of rules? What about past written work?

[Tiramisu]

In the teacher's defense, it's mid-October, and I find it hard to believe that "show your work" hasn't come up yet. This can't be a complete surprise. Surely they have had tests, quizzes, homework, classwork? It's possible that some students have been deliberately resistant, and this is her way of showing that she means business. I really like Laura's point of it not being fair to the kids who do take the time of writing everything out.

 

I have heard enough stories to know it's *possible* this is the very first test and the teacher never mentioned showing your work, but that's not the assumption I would make. If my kid was claiming to be caught by surprise, I would try to find some sources that might show what expectations were. Does the teacher have a web site? A syllabus, guide, or list of rules? What about past written work?

 

I understand your point and I completely agree that she wants to show that she means business. I don't know what goes on in class, but generally dd is attentive. Definitely a rule follower. The instructions stated, "Show your work," and dd did for problems that did not have obvious answers, like squares. And it's the first test. Chapter 1. This issue did not come up the one previous quiz, and homework isn't corrected by the teacher.

 

I understand the value of showing work, and in high school and college I was happy to get partial credit for showing work when I got an answer wrong. It just seems odd to lose so many points, particularly where something is so obvious. 

[Tiramisu]

I just wonder what kind of work one would show with squares.  I'm referring to smaller, obvious, perfect squares.  That's like saying add 3 plus 3 and show your work.  What is there to show?

 

For example, in addition to the answer, for 3 squared, she wanted 3 x 3, for the square root of 49, she wanted 7 x 7.

[SKL]

I once got a zero for not showing my work.  (I also had 100% correct.)  I was a rebel, though.  :)

 

Yesterday Miss A told me she had gone over Miss E's math worksheet and rewritten the sloppy parts so the teacher could read it.  ;)  She said it was because she didn't want Miss E to miss out on Honor Roll.  ;)  Mostly OT, but I guess they have had the "show your work - and neatly" talk in 2nd grade already.