If your child scored very high on the reading section of the SAT...

[Jane Elliot]

...to what do you attribute the high score? (If you're willing to give your child's score, I think that would be helpful.)

 

Just curious.

 

 

 

[regentrude]

In my DD's case (reading score 790 on the SAT, 36 on the ACT), I attribute it solely to reading a large amount of quality literature of various time periods and genres since elementary school.

I believe this is the best preparation.

 

Any questions she missed in practice tests were always due to ambiguity: with literature, there are often different ways to interpret a passage, and it may not always be clearcut what the "right" interpretation is, even if the test format pretends that this is the case.

 

[Candid]

Mine has not actually taken the SAT, but he did do the first test in their released test book and scored 800 so I expect he will score high. (We did no test prep to set a baseline and tried to administer it as it will be administered.)

 

And I will say the same thing regentrude says about massive reading. He once nearly gave a local librarian a heart attack when he told her at 14 that is favorite author was Dickens. 

[Jane Elliot]

I attribute it solely to reading a large amount of quality literature of various time periods and genres since elementary school.

I believe this is the best preparation.

 

 

Thanks for answering. Did you read a lot of this literature aloud to her? If so, how much did you continue to read aloud as she became more capable of reading independently? Did you do anything with the literature she read (i.e. dictations, narrations, analysis, comprehension questions, discussions) or was it mainly just reading?

 

You did practice tests. Did you do a lot of them? If so, how early did you start these? How much do you think practice tests contributed to her high score?

 

I'm sorry for so many questions. I'm just trying to figure this out.

[Jane Elliot]

 

And I will say the same thing regentrude says about massive reading. He once nearly gave a local librarian a heart attack when he told her at 14 that is favorite author was Dickens. 

 

Thanks for answering. Did he read Dickens on his own or did you read it aloud to him? Is he reading independently or are you having a lot of discussions? I'm just wondering how much can be attributed to just simply reading large quantities and how much would be attributed to interaction with someone else (mom/teacher) over the literature/reading.

[regentrude]

Did you read a lot of this literature aloud to her? If so, how much did you continue to read aloud as she became more capable of reading independently?

 

I read aloud daily (regular childrens' books) until she was able to read by herself in K; after that, she prefered to read by herself because that was quicker. But we listened to many audiobooks on our travels.

 

 

Did you do anything with the literature she read (i.e. dictations, narrations, analysis, comprehension questions, discussions)

 

Heck no! That would be the surest way to ruin her joy of reading. We did some lit analysis in high school, but not overly much.

Mainly she read. I always found comprehension questions dumb- they are a tool for classroom teachers to make sure the students read their assignment. I know whether my kids read and whether they understand what they read. We have informal conversations about books all the time. Contrary to popular opinion, kids do think about what they read, even if I do not make them. And they like to share their thoughts - just maybe not within the framework of "school", but rather while out on a hike.

 

 

You did practice tests. Did you do a lot of them? If so, how early did you start these?

 

She took her first SAT in 7th grade and did two practice tests for that. She scored a 730 back then.

Before her "real" SAT in 11th grade, she did two practice tests, but was focusing mainly on math; she did not worry about Reading at all (she wrote a few practice essays for the writing portion)

 

 

 How much do you think practice tests contributed to her high score?

 

I think the only benefit of the practice tests for English was to become familiar with the style of questioning. They did nothing for her subject mastery, but helped to be prepared for the kind of test. She always had time to spare in the English sections (time she would have loved to spend on math)

 

ETA: For math, the practice tests were helpful to drill speed and to find out how to play off the multiple choice format, i.e. when to work backwards  from the possible answers. They were definitely useful for improving score. They did nothing to contrinbute to subject mastery though.

[Jane Elliot]

 

 

ETA: For math, the practice tests were helpful to drill speed and to find out how to play off the multiple choice format, i.e. when to work backwards  from the possible answers. They were definitely useful for improving score. They did nothing to contrinbute to subject mastery though.

 

Thank you for answering the questions on reading. It gives me a lot to think about.

 

 I agree completely with you regarding the math section (above).

[Gwen in VA]

My kids did well (three 800's and an upper 700's), but all they have in common (from an English lit perspective) is a listening to a lot of read-alouds when they were in int elementary grades!

 

Dd1 and ds1 were bookworms who devoured books. Ds2, a budding engineer, hated reading and read only technical stuff for self-education. He didn't even read much for English -- he hated studying literature enough that I let him get away with only writing classes starting his junior year. Dd2 genuinely doesn't like to read and only reads required books.

 

So I have no idea what to credit their good scores to, but apparently in some cases copious quantities of reading and/or literature study does not need to be part of the equation!

[Sunshine State Sue]

Ds only took the ACT at the end of 9th and 10th grade.  His English score increased from 27 to 35.  His Reading score increased from 23 to 32.  He did a bit of prep with a tutor in 10th grade mostly for the writing section (and that score was unimpressive).  I don't think our level of homeschool reading is anywhere near TWTM standards, especially since he's been outsourced 10th grade and up.  I attribute his scores to Analytical Grammar and a class he took at CC in 10th grade called Critical Reading and Thinking.  The CC class textbook looked like ACT Reading prep to me.  :thumbup1:

[GoodGrief]

My oldest got an 800.  She's a huge reader.  However, I think the prep course she took made a difference too.  Her pre-course test scores, including the PSAT, were not nearly as high.

[angela in ohio]

My oldest scored a 770 (SAT) and 36 (ACT). She also had an 800 on the SAT Subject Test in Literature.

 

I attribute it to:

1. She has had a WTM Great Books education, reading widely from across genres and time periods and (more importantly) writing about it.

2. She learned to read early, and so has read more and practiced longer than average.

3. I use big words when I talk to my dc, and if they don't understand from context, they were taught to ask or look them up.

4. She has had three years of Latin using Wheelock's and then Lukeion.

5. She has read only children's classics, classics, scientific magazines/journals, and old books.

6. She studied for and practiced the SAT and ACT. This is mostly due to the fact that she has severe test anxiety, especially on the SAT for some reason, but I think it also helped her score in general.

7. We discuss ideas, characters, literature, etc. frequently.

 

We did very little (okay, almost none) of the usual recommendations for homeschooling reading: book clubs, comprehension guides, reading aloud, etc.

[Jane Elliot]

This is all very interesting. I expected reading aloud to be high on everyone's list, but so far no one has said that was a major factor. Thanks to everyone who's answered. Keep them coming.

[Jane Elliot]

2. She learned to read early, and so has read more and practiced longer than average.

 

 

Interesting. I've always wondered if this was part of it. Our highest score came from our earliest reader; our lowest score from our latest reader. Or could it be the other way around? Could it be that those with the most natural ability in reading just learn to read earlier, and then that natural ability shows up on the SAT? Hmmm...

 

ETA: In fact, now that I think about it, for our six who have taken the SAT, there is a direct correlation between how early they learned to read and where their scores fell on the reading section with relation to their siblings. The earlier they learned to read, the higher their score.

 

Thanks for answering, Angela. I've thoroughly enjoyed hearing your perspective over the years.

[AFwife Claire]

This is all interesting.  My oldest just took the SAT for the first time (no prep) in May, and he got a 770 on the critical reading part.  He was not an early reader, and in fact he has some of those "writing gates" I read about, where the info is in his head, but he can't write it down.  He has terrible handwriting still. 

 

He did take off in reading when he was 7, and he has always enjoyed reading a wide variety of material, but literature is not anywhere near his favorite class!  I attributed his good score, well, mainly to the grace of God, LOL, but also to all his reading, good vocab work in our little co-op, and lots of Latin growing up.   I read aloud fairly often when he was young, and we listen to a lot of books on CD when we travel.  I need to read aloud more now to my littles . . . this is a good reminder to make that more of a priority this school year.

[Muttichen]

I had one with 800 and one with 790, and two in the mid-700s.  They read a lot, but they also did a lot of practice tests and drilled on vocabulary.  We would also read and discuss difficult articles on all kinds of subjects.

[mckive6]

This may not be applicable, but my dd took the test cold turkey in seventh grade and scored a 710. Her score was definitely linked to her voracious reading habit-at the time she had always been public/private-schooled and her then current English teacher used class time to watch Doctor Who and read one book for the whole year. She is VERY grateful to now be homeschooled and be able-and required-to read the great books she loves.

HTH

[WTMCassandra]

I can only answer for the PSAT, since mine hasn't taken the SAT yet.  She just about maxed the language score. (And she had never stepped foot into a public school before that day, was in a really new situation, and was very nervous.  And she was trying the PSAT as a 10th grader.)

 

I attribute it to three things:

 

1.  Natural language ability (except spelling, LOL)

2.  Latin and Greek study

3.  Reading high quality literature for both school and personal reading

[Barbara H]

Also, don't underestimate the importance of nonfiction reading. While reading and discussing literature is one way to develop strong skills with critical thinking and text analysis, it isn't the only way. I've worked with several bright STEM focused students who scored 700+ on the SAT critical reading section, but really didn't love literature during high school and didn't devote a lot of energy to it. They did read widely though - science journals, popular nonfiction, quality magazines like the Atlantic, etc. and many also had some Latin study which can be helpful with vocabulary.

[Candid]

Thanks for answering. Did he read Dickens on his own or did you read it aloud to him? Is he reading independently or are you having a lot of discussions? I'm just wondering how much can be attributed to just simply reading large quantities and how much would be attributed to interaction with someone else (mom/teacher) over the literature/reading.

 

Again much of what regentrude has said is also true for us.

 

First, he was not an early reader, did not teach himself. He really caught on after first grade year as he was about to turn 7. Scooby Doo chapter mysteries were what kicked him over the top.

 

Prior to that we did do lots and lots of read alouds. We actually read to both our children when they were babies. Used to lay on the floor beside them and hold the books over us. When this one could sit up, he could identify books spread about him if I called them out. The summer between k and 1st I can remember reading almost all the Ralph Moody books to him (the last book or two deal with commodity futures markets I stopped reading those to him). 

 

However he also had a severe speech problem and at 5 although he could understand at the 95th percentile, but he could only be understood at the 5th percentile. This was all due to fine motor sort of issues involving oral communication. But it did exist for him. 

 

We did use Sonlight up through 5th grade and then Tapestry of Grace after that. So he did have some basic interaction questions for any books he read with Sonlight. For Tapestry we started at the D level with him and they have extensive Socratic discussions. But he read a bunch on his own. One reason I did switch was Sonlight was not going to keep up with him and they were not asking particularly deep questions in that last year, questions that he and I talked about from his books. 

 

But Dickens was his own discovery and I've never spent a lot of time discussing it with him. This coming year Tapestry will do Great Expectations  so we will do a deep literary discussion or two with it. 

 

Since he resembles me in his voracious reading and I also took the SAT, let me report that this child is way beyond me at the same age. He challenges himself more, like old classics, and reads gobs of nonfiction. He's been reading academic papers this summer prepping for the debate topic this fall and winter. And at least his preliminary score reflects that difference between us by a bunch of points. So reading romance novels does not count!

 

While he has read the classics on his own he has also read a bunch of lighter materials as well. Some of those light materials were adult oriented, like books and bios around baseball. 

[creekland]

Interesting. I've always wondered if this was part of it. Our highest score came from our earliest reader; our lowest score from our latest reader. Or could it be the other way around? Could it be that those with the most natural ability in reading just learn to read earlier, and then that natural ability shows up on the SAT? Hmmm...

 

ETA: In fact, now that I think about it, for our six who have taken the SAT, there is a direct correlation between how early they learned to read and where their scores fell on the reading section with relation to their siblings. The earlier they learned to read, the higher their score.

 

Thanks for answering, Angela. I've thoroughly enjoyed hearing your perspective over the years.

This is not true in our family.  My middle son is my high stat kid (maxed the English), but he was slow to learn to read (and speak).  He was in speech classes from age 4 until the end of 2nd grade.  He was in the lowest reading group (ps) from K to the middle of 2nd grade when it all finally "clicked," so to speak.  By the end of 2nd grade he was in the highest reading group.  By 7th grade he had tested off the high school charts.  He never stopped reading - everything and anything.  He loves classics.

 

With all 3 of my boys we did Latin and Greek roots and read to them daily from birth until they could read themselves.  The other two all learned to read relatively early (compared to ps), but they never loved to read and only read things they were made to read (for the most part).  Their scores were higher than average (600s, high 20s), but nowhere near "high."  My youngest (who chose our ps for high school) scored the lowest of the three.  Our ps has kids read very, very little and not much at grade level even when they do read.  He still scored in the low 600s (fantastic for the school), but...

 

I've often heard that scores on the English/Reading part of standardized tests correlates the most with the vocabulary of the parents, but I don't know if it's true or just commonly stated.  I don't think that creates the near perfect or perfect scores, but I do suspect it gives an edge toward high scores.

[BlsdMama]

I suspect the reading aloud would more closely correlate to success in the Writing section.

[flyingiguana]

My daughter read late and scored high. We did a fair number of read alouds, but she didn't read all that many classics. (Not like the number you see listed on Ambleside Online. And not the difficulty level that you see in the WTM suggestions.)

 

We did very little Latin, no Greek, no word roots study. Boxcar Children were the books of choice for a long time. Lots of them. She learned how to read using comic books and read them a LOT in the early years.

 

We do talk a lot. A whole lot. And I tended to use a lot more complicated vocabulary than I should have attempted with young children.

 

I also scored high on the SAT. My reading consisted of a few of the lighter children's classics, a lot of bad science fiction, and an amazing amount of Mad Magazine. No one read aloud to me. I barely knew what Latin was, other than pig Latin. I also didn't start reading very early. However, we barely watched any TV when I was a kid. That may have been helpful.

 

It helps to be able to think superficially and quickly for the SAT/ACT. (This is also true of the math portion.) If the student can just turn on the superficial/quick thinking for the test and then turn it off in the rest of life, that's best, but it's not always possible. This is one of the reason I take high scores with a generous dose of salt.

 

Fast reading is a real bonus, and maybe just having the practice at reading *anything* over many years is really helpful. Even if it is Mad Magazine.

 

My husband didn't score all that high -- respectable, but not terribly high. He reads very slowly. But once he's read it, it sticks. I have to read a thing a number of times to get the understanding that he does the first time through. This is useful in a scientific field (like we're in), but the reading on the SAT doesn't approach that level of complexity. There was ONE reading on the GRE when I took it that was a complex scientific reading, but I already knew the material in it, so I skipped reading it and just answered the questions. There are a lot of tricks like that that will lead to a higher score.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

...to what do you attribute the high score? (If you're willing to give your child's score, I think that would be helpful.)

 

Just curious.

 

One son has a PSAT reading score in the 99th percentile.  I would say that he reads a lot and of really varied material.  I've not been as good at explicitly studying older literature as some here.  But he has been exposed to enough to not be intimidated by any reading.  He picked up Beowulf and 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea for fun.  He has read many challenging books in history contexts.  These range from Jeff Shaara novels to All Quiet on the Western Front to history books like Battle Cry of Freedom.  He reads the newspaper most days.  We did a lot of reading aloud (and audio books) when he was learning to read.  He also reads many science fiction books and non-fiction science books.  So I'd say that he not only has a wide vocabulary, but also reads quickly and has experience with a lot of different types of readings.

 

His younger brother only has an SAT from a 7th grade talent search, but I anticipate a similar PSAT score for him.  This son is even more of a book hoover.  He learned to read at a young age and probably reads 100+ books a year, ranging from young adult fiction to sections of Odyssey.

 

I never used reading guides with comprehension questions and vocabulary lists.  But in early days of reading instruction, we often pulled a short news article, had them read it and then asked them about it.  We did a little bit of Wordly Wise in elementary school, but haven't concentrated on specific vocabulary study.  Both boys are studying German and Latin.  They are surrounded by books in our home.  We also eat most dinners together and have wide ranging conversations that touch on news, history, and science. 

 

We are somewhat limited in electronics use.  We have iPods (which they use for music and a lot of podcasts on tech or history topics) and handheld DS games.  But we don't have a big gaming system and their computer use is limited.  So in part, their lives leave them time to read.  We used to do a lot of long car and plane trips.  Most of these were without any electronics.  So they either listened to Teaching Company lectures or audio books or they read.  They have created a reading habit.  At swim meets, when other swimmers are plugged into an iPod or playing a handheld game, my oldest son tends to be reading.  His brother went to Philmont this summer and an important part of his packing was picking out his reading for the plane (Starship Troopers, a big volume of Sherlock Holmes and The Prince).  I think being a quick reader with strong comprehension gives a student time to ponder some of the trickier questions.

[PeterPan]

This is not true in our family.  My middle son is my high stat kid (maxed the English), but he was slow to learn to read (and speak).  He was in speech classes from age 4 until the end of 2nd grade.  He was in the lowest reading group (ps) from K to the middle of 2nd grade when it all finally "clicked," so to speak.  By the end of 2nd grade he was in the highest reading group.  By 7th grade he had tested off the high school charts.  He never stopped reading - everything and anything.  He loves classics.

 

With all 3 of my boys we did Latin and Greek roots and read to them daily from birth until they could read themselves.  

Creekland, I appreciate you sharing this!  That's probably going to be my ds.  He seems to have a very good verbal IQ (based on the things he says), but he's on the slow track for speech and reading.  Didn't even occur to me he could pan out so well, wow.  Well that's inspiration to keep plugging at it!  :)

 

So what did you use for roots?  

[MicheleinMN]

I've had 4 students take the ACT, so far.  Three have received 35's on the reading section (including my just finished 8th grade son).  My, much more dyslexic than I realized, son only scored a 22.  I have always read aloud to the children either in the morning or at bedtime.  I'm actually planning on re-instituting our night time read aloud time this fall.  I NEED the children to start going to bed earlier than they did last year. 

 

Dd loves languages and enjoyed Latin. None of my other children like learning languages.

 

Anyway, two  (dd 19 and ds 15) of the 3 are my most academically minded children, and those two are also my biggest readers.  They are both voracious readers.  My eldest, who also made a 35, is also dyslexic, and only has one book that he kept after he was done with high school Dante's Divine Comedy, though I think he's only read Inferno.

 

HTH

[Julie in MN]

It helps to be able to think superficially and quickly for the SAT/ACT. (This is also true of the math portion.) If the student can just turn on the superficial/quick thinking for the test and then turn it off in the rest of life, that's best, but it's not always possible. This is one of the reason I take high scores with a generous dose of salt.

 

Fast reading is a real bonus,

 

I don't have experience with the SAT, but with the ACT, I feel reading fast and superficially is key.  And with the ACT, there are 4 distinct types of reading, so it's good to know which types need the most work (with my son, it's the fiction portion, he just can't get into a blurb randomly taken out of fiction). 

 

 

I suspect the reading aloud would more closely correlate to success in the Writing section.

 

I agree.  Read-alouds are great for my very good listener, and probably help him recognize good grammar - he tests well in that area.  But I have not seen the read-alouds apply to his reading ability whatsoever.  He always has and still does enjoy listening to stories, but has absolutely no interest in the isolation of reading on his own, so he is not good at it.  He's technically a good reader, taught himself to read before kindergarten, but staring at a page of words has done nothing but cause eyes to water, mouth to pout, and a general "blah blah blah" feeling. 

 

My daughter is like the husband who reads slowly and carefully, remembering it all, but never finishing in order to get a decent test score.

 

Maybe for some kids who are less social than ds, or less perfectionist than my dd, reading aloud could tempt them into reading on their own and wanting to go faster to get to the end, and so they sort-of do the test prep by happenstance.  But I don't think it's universal that reading aloud helps reading, whatsoever.  Neither is having tons of books in the home, or having 2 parents who love to read, or any of the other magic touches that are supposed to help instill a love of reading LOL.  Some kids just aren't inherently practicing very much and need to slog through a little prep -- reading harder and harder things, with instruction on how to find the gist of the story quickly, have a good idea where details will be in the story without trying to memorize them, etc.  IMHO.

 

Julie

[creekland]

Creekland, I appreciate you sharing this!  That's probably going to be my ds.  He seems to have a very good verbal IQ (based on the things he says), but he's on the slow track for speech and reading.  Didn't even occur to me he could pan out so well, wow.  Well that's inspiration to keep plugging at it!   :)

 

So what did you use for roots?  

It's been a few years, but I believe the title was something like, English from the Roots Up.  I believe there were two or three volumes.  The kids did index cards and such things and learned to recognize major roots/meanings.  It was very helpful for all three of them as they remembered the roots literally forever and so many words come from them.

 

On a different track... it also helped that we opted to have my guy tested at 4 years of age.  He tested gifted in everything except verbal expression (too early for reading at that point).  They told us fancy names and such things, but I only remember the layman way they explained it.  His brain wasn't "wired" normally, so he needed to be worked with to improve that area of it.  They had special ways they did it - exercises/games.  Had he not gotten started young (brain was still developing) they told us he'd have never improved much as once it was "set" that was it.  He'd have always been gifted, but would also always have problems with verbal expression.  Even knowing all of that they were surprised at how well he ended up doing - most don't get the complete success he had.  He was truly willing to work at it and it was caught young.

 

Reading was connected to his speech.  Teaching him the normal way would have never worked and his first "un" success at ps was due to the teacher (and probably, us) trying to teach him the normal way.  The boy literally could not sound out the word "was" even when it was on the same page three times ("w" and "s" were two problem sounds/letters).  His brain was not getting the connection.  When we had his first parent-teacher conference in 1st grade the teacher told us about his dismal reading ability.  We then talked with his speech teacher and she immediately connected the two - then talked with the teacher teaching him how to teach our son.  Fortunately, it was a new teacher - very eager to learn and connect, so he did change his ways for just our son taking him under his wing.  We were not allowed to work with him at home (too upsetting for the young chap - he wanted to impress us and couldn't and would cry even if we were supportive) so we were told to continue reading to him, but don't let him try (and fail).  Keep home 100% positive.

 

It was really, really, strange, but it worked.  By the end of 2nd grade he had the speech and reading things both worked out.  (The letters he couldn't read were the same as those he couldn't pronounce - over half of them!)  His brain had developed the connection it needed.  I'm really, really, glad someone had suggested we get him professionally tested rather than just hoping he'd outgrow it on his own... hence... I mention it here.  It may not be at all what your guy needs (kids are different and his was definitely physical) - or it could be similar. I just mention our story just in case it helps someone else - anyone else.

 

 But I don't think it's universal that reading aloud helps reading, whatsoever.  Neither is having tons of books in the home, or having 2 parents who love to read, or any of the other magic touches that are supposed to help instill a love of reading LOL. 

 

Julie

My other two definitely prove it's not any of those magic touches.  They were raised with all of them and a ton of encouragement to read.  To this day, they don't like it - yet middle son who really had to work to "get it" loves it.  I've no clue how it all works.  I tried to have three readers... and I still love reading (as does hubby).

[Laura in CA]

I don't have time to read all the responses right now (college-app panic! moving-another-child-to-start-college-next-week panic! haha), so I'll quote the first reply:

 

In my DD's case (reading score 790 on the SAT, 36 on the ACT), I attribute it solely to reading a large amount of quality literature of various time periods and genres since elementary school.

I believe this is the best preparation.

 

Same here ... my son took the SAT three times* and scored 800 each time on the reading section -- much to his surprise. (He considers math and science his strong points.) I credit lots of reading (both fiction and nonfiction, which he prefers), along with discussion, logic, and Latin (for vocabulary and for word nuances).

 

 

 

* ETA: In case anyone is wondering why on earth he took it 3 times ... it was partly to bring up his essay score.