Daughter is way behind in math, HELP!

[mamato4girls]

I need some advice, my rising 11th grade daughter is waaay behind in math. She was homeschooled from 6-8th did Math at her level, went to PS for 9th, passed Algebra with a 74, and we homeschooled again for 10th (and will continue till graduation).

 

She did Geometry for 10th, but only probably completed 20% of her lessons and barely passed what she did complete. She used to love math, but as a teenager hates it!

 

She is not sure about college, but I definitely want her to fulfill enough credits to get in if she chooses. She probably won't go into a science or math career. What can I do to get her 4 full math credits? I feel if she completely retakes Geometry, how will she have time to get Algebra II, and another math in before graduating? Her sister did dual credit Math at the local CC her senior year so I am leaning towards that for this child as well.

 

I am sorry for rambling, just not sure where to start. 

[kiana]

Why didn't she finish geometry? She certainly can't pick up any math credits if she doesn't actually do the work. Was it too hard or an issue of unwillingness to work?

[PeterPan]

What did she use for the geometry?  I went back and checked your old posts.  It looks like you used TT at one point.  I'm confused though.  You had posts in 2009 and 2010 talking about doing the pre-algebra and then going *back* to TT7.  So she then did TT algebra 1 for 8th, went to PS for 9th and retook algebra 1 with a 74 average???  

 

Probably the first thing you're going to have to do is give her a placement test.  Then figure out what you've used so far and why it didn't work.  The geometry may have been a struggle either from lack of supervision (her butt in chair, you making sure it happens) or because she didn't have enough background and real understanding of the basic algebra skills or a readiness issue. 

 

If the issue is lack of supervision and implementation, well then you know what that means.  I saw you had a baby in 2011, so I imagine things feel a little hairy.  Suck up and get math done every day.  Do a placement test and get her into something that can get done every day.  It's pretty ironic that in 2010 you were debating whether TT was GOOD ENOUGH and now you're realizing nothing is getting done.  That's when TT can be good, because it can actually GET DONE.  Math that gets done is better than no math.  If she was over-placed and hence not understanding it and avoiding it, well that's understandable.  Also, they've redone TT since she did it. The new 2.0 versions are very straightforward to implement.  The geometry should be coming out this fall.  The algebra 2 2.0 version is already out.  If she needs to repeat algebra 1, well that's available in 2.0 as well.  So give her a placement test and see what that tells you.  

 

Btw, it's only the beginning of July.  She can do 2-3 lessons a day of the geometry, whether she likes it or not, and finish it by fall.  Then in the fall go into algebra 2, possibly with a bit extra review of algebra 1 if necessary.  That way she's on track.  I did geometry in summer school when I was in high school, and it's actually kind of fun that way.  So suck up, do the hard thing, get it done.  

[Pegasus]

When we let particular subjects slide, it is usually because we (the parents) feel weak in that area. Don't beat yourself up about what hasn't worked well in the past.  I think it would be best to bring in a math tutor for your DD.  Have him/her give DD a placement test and start intensive tutoring, starting wherever she is.  Answering to an outside authority will help ensure that math gets done.  Good luck!

[Matryoshka]

Btw, it's only the beginning of July.  She can do 2-3 lessons a day of the geometry, whether she likes it or not, and finish it by fall.  Then in the fall go into algebra 2, possibly with a bit extra review of algebra 1 if necessary.  That way she's on track.  I did geometry in summer school when I was in high school, and it's actually kind of fun that way.  So suck up, do the hard thing, get it done.

:iagree: My dd is taking Geometry over the summer after having to re-do Algebra (or the 2nd half of Algebra) her 9th grade year, so she can get back to what the "normal" math track is here. It is doable.

 

And accountability is huge. I did end up signing my dd up for a summer school program with a teacher, because we both knew it would be hard for her to keep on track, especially at an accelerated pace, without it. But it still can be done without that - your dd just has to be on board (so it's not just you nagging and pushing - she has to see that this needs to get done and agree that this is her goal), and you have to follow up as well (otherwise it's easy for kids to think "I'll do it tomorrow" and then have it snowball into a week or more's worth of work that is overdue, get overwhelmed and give up).

 

Going forward, make sure math is the priority and gets done every single day. Sign her up for an outside class if you don't think you can be the one to help keep her on track. I have done this for subjects where the kids fight me on, or ones where I know I tend to procrastinate with grading etc. It's nothing to beat yourself (or her) up about, it's just something that you need to acknowledge and do something about so the same pattern doesn't continue.

[JanetC]

You need to figure out why she is behind. 

 

Did you expect her to self-teach math?  Maybe she needs a co-op class or a tutor. 

 

Did she struggle in 6-8th "math at her level" -- if so, there may be an undiagnosed learning disability.  (This is especially true if there are others in your family tree who also struggled in math.)

 

Did the curriculum style change?  Does she need a curriculum with more built in review, or more visual/hands-on activity, or more explicit instruction in problem-solving strategies, or something else?

 

I agree that you cannot give her a geometry credit if she only did 20% of the work.  So, she will need to make time in her schedule for catching up on credits.  Since this is not an area of strength for her, it's not something she can rush through.

[mamato4girls]

Why didn't she finish geometry? She certainly can't pick up any math credits if she doesn't actually do the work. Was it too hard or an issue of unwillingness to work?

No, I would never give her credit for not actually completing that, never said that! She didn't get it done because of a complete lack of desire on her part. We moved, and I was overwhelmed with baby, so I definatley didn't push her the way I should have! That is all changing! She has to complete Geometry before moving on.

 

[mamato4girls]

I think the TT Algebra was for my oldest, not this child :)

 

Yes, she is definatley doing summer school! She is very manipulative and we totally fell into her trap, I am so mad at myself!!

 

What did she use for the geometry?  I went back and checked your old posts.  It looks like you used TT at one point.  I'm confused though.  You had posts in 2009 and 2010 talking about doing the pre-algebra and then going *back* to TT7.  So she then did TT algebra 1 for 8th, went to PS for 9th and retook algebra 1 with a 74 average???  

 

Probably the first thing you're going to have to do is give her a placement test.  Then figure out what you've used so far and why it didn't work.  The geometry may have been a struggle either from lack of supervision (her butt in chair, you making sure it happens) or because she didn't have enough background and real understanding of the basic algebra skills or a readiness issue. 

 

If the issue is lack of supervision and implementation, well then you know what that means.  I saw you had a baby in 2011, so I imagine things feel a little hairy.  Suck up and get math done every day.  Do a placement test and get her into something that can get done every day.  It's pretty ironic that in 2010 you were debating whether TT was GOOD ENOUGH and now you're realizing nothing is getting done.  That's when TT can be good, because it can actually GET DONE.  Math that gets done is better than no math.  If she was over-placed and hence not understanding it and avoiding it, well that's understandable.  Also, they've redone TT since she did it. The new 2.0 versions are very straightforward to implement.  The geometry should be coming out this fall.  The algebra 2 2.0 version is already out.  If she needs to repeat algebra 1, well that's available in 2.0 as well.  So give her a placement test and see what that tells you.  

 

Btw, it's only the beginning of July.  She can do 2-3 lessons a day of the geometry, whether she likes it or not, and finish it by fall.  Then in the fall go into algebra 2, possibly with a bit extra review of algebra 1 if necessary.  That way she's on track.  I did geometry in summer school when I was in high school, and it's actually kind of fun that way.  So suck up, do the hard thing, get it done.  

 

[jhschool]

Sounds like summer school, then.

 

Good luck and don't beat yourself up.  You caught it in time and you can fix this.

 

I would say Way to go!

 

 

[PeterPan]

She didn't get it done because of a complete lack of desire on her part. We moved, and I was overwhelmed with baby, so I definatley didn't push her the way I should have! That is all changing! She has to complete Geometry before moving on.

 

You also mentioned she's manipulative.  Whatever it is, I'm pretty sure I'd be pulling the "You don't do math, you don't eat" card...  And apologize that you weren't as diligent supervising her.  Clearly she's not ready to manage herself, so you have to step up.  Good job seeing it.  

 

Count the number of lessons left, chart out the number of days she till Sept, and just get it done.  Every morning she wakes up and does 2 lessons, then she can go swim and do her normal routine, that sort of thing.  Sounds like she'll have to show you the completed lesson before she's marked as done.  

 

Be tough and consistent.  The lesson she learns through consistent effort is actually more important than the geometry.

[Jen in NY]

Be tough and consistent.  The lesson she learns through consistent effort is actually more important than the geometry.

ITA with the above.

 

Additionally, I know you said that she is not sure about college yet, but Geometry is really important for the SAT, and it would be to her advantage to do the best she can muster on that test. If she's strong on the other sections, even an average showing on the math with be OK. Something that really motivated my dds when they were younger was looking at colleges... the possibilities are inspiring!

 

You both *definitely* have time to fix this!! I'd recommend something straightforward and easy to assign... (here it would be Jacob's)... and Kahn academy or Purple Math for support. We call them get'er done moments - for us this year it was American Gov't and Politics, LOL.

[Kathie in VA]

What!  She didn't get her math done!  Ouch... sounds like my dd!  She also fell behind due to a combination of laziness and poor math skills.  Here are some things I used:

 

A math tutor.  This was pricier then a class but it helped some.

 

A summer working with her dad.. she didn't like this but it moved her along.

 

Dual Enrolling ... 1/2 year at the college is equal to 1 year at high school ... so 2 high school credit in one year right there ... might want to arrange a handy helper or tutor to help make sure the work gets done correctly as not all homework is collected and graded!!

 

BTW:  she is going to continue to take classes at the CC.. they don't care what she did or did not do in high school but a transcript from them will help get into a 4 year college later ... so that's our path

[kiana]

Oh, I didn't mean to imply you were going to just present her with credits! What I meant is, you need to figure out why she wasn't working so you can figure out where to go from there. Fixing the work ethic is the primary issue here.

 

Seeing the further information, I agree with OhElizabeth. TT is plenty for college, it'll get her those credits. She needs to be working through the summer and on weekends until she's caught up. You've still got time!

[1Togo]

Using the Saxon textbooks that include Geometry, this is what we have done with "way behind" students, and students who didn't really master Algebra with other curriculum.

 

Summer after 10th Grade

Saxon Pre-Algebra, 2 lessons per day, completed by September. 

 

11th Grade

September through January -- Saxon Algebra I - 2 lessons per day through the review portion, then one lesson per day with test on Saturday

 

January through July- Saxon Algebra 2 - one lesson per day with test on Saturday

 

Although Algebra II isn't finished, this will be enough Algebra and Geometry to do well on a May ACT if the student masters the material and completes some ACT practice tests.

 

Summer After 11th Grade

Finish Algebra 2 and begin Advanced Math.

 

12th Grade

Finish Advanced math and begin Calculus.

 

The Algebra I, Algebra II and Advanced Math books each include 1/3 credit of Geometry, so the three books will give a Geometry credit.  That is how we have done it, and we have never had a problem with transcripts.

 

This plan requires fortitude, but it has worked well for us.

 

 

[AngieW in Texas]

I would go with either TT or MUS for Geometry and schedule her for enough lessons each day to get her through it this summer. For next year, you will have to make math a priority.

[kiana]

I would actually not try to finish Geometry over the summer. I think that with that kind of a rush, she will retain very little from it. I would instead work steadily forward through the rest of the summer and on weekends. She should get about halfway through, and be able to wrap it up during the fall.

 

I would also give her the placement test for whatever algebra 2 you're looking at using. If she doesn't pass the placement test, she needs to be starting on algebra remediation now as well. I would work through re-doing alg 1 and geometry simultaneously with a goal of finishing by Christmas.

 

If she does pass the placement test, you could go ahead and start algebra 2 in the fall, treating them as two separate subjects and making sure there's enough time for both. Otherwise, you could let her finish geometry during the fall, then do algebra 2 in the spring and summer. The second one would be easier but give less algebra 2 before spring testing.

 

Whichever one you do, I would make sure that there is a math lesson (or two, if doing alg/geo simultaneously) done every single day, including weekends, until caught up.

[Excelsior! Academy]

I would suggest LoF. We chose it for the same reason. You can reasonably do Algebra I and II in one year then Geometry the next.

[Laura Corin]

I would suggest LoF. We chose it for the same reason. You can reasonably do Algebra I and II in one year then Geometry the next.

 

I would be careful of LOF with an unenthusiastic pupil.  If she loves it enough to think her way independently to solutions then it would work well.  If she, like Calvin, just wants to have maths presented to her in a straightforward way so that she can get it done quickly, then LOF may just be another false start, as it was for us.

 

L

[Amethyst]

 

 

  She can do 2-3 lessons a day of the geometry, whether she likes it or not, and finish it by fall.  

 LOL. I just about fell out of my chair laughing at this one. Ha Ha. I am not the OP, but I have dd who has absolutely no aptitude in math. I sat there next to her EVERY day and did geometry with her EVERY day. And it still took 2 days per lesson. It is not always about "sucking it up" and getting the job done. Some people do not have the aptitude. She still needs to do her work, but the idea of her or any other child who has low aptitude trying to get 2-3 lessons of TT done a day is not what she needs, in my opinion.

[Amethyst]

I would be careful of LOF with an unenthusiastic pupil.  If she loves it enough to think her way independently to solutions then it would work well.  If she, like Calvin, just wants to have maths presented to her in a straightforward way so that she can get it done quickly, then LOF may just be another false start, as it was for us.

 

L

False start with us too. It didn't take long at all for that to go bad. 

[kerenlynne]

It is very frustrating to have a child who is way behind and doesn't feel that sense of urgency that we parents feel. My DS is entering 11th grade and we are just starting Algebra 1 this summer. Does he feel that he is way behind and desire to do what he needs in order to catch up? No way. I told him he has to do math year round until he graduates and if we are lucky we will make it through Algebra 2. You can get DD through Geometry by Christmas, Algebra 2 by next fall if she is up for the challenge. Don't panic! If she isn't up for the challenge there isn't a whole lot you can do other than be and encourager at this stage in her life. If you haven't already done this, I would have a serious conversation with her and tell her year round math is the reality she is facing in order to graduate. She is old enough to have a real conversation about what specifically she hates about math and what you can do to help her. Good Luck!

[PeterPan]

 LOL. I just about fell out of my chair laughing at this one. Ha Ha. I am not the OP, but I have dd who has absolutely no aptitude in math. I sat there next to her EVERY day and did geometry with her EVERY day. And it still took 2 days per lesson. It is not always about "sucking it up" and getting the job done. Some people do not have the aptitude. She still needs to do her work, but the idea of her or any other child who has low aptitude trying to get 2-3 lessons of TT done a day is not what she needs, in my opinion.

 

Totally see your point!  :)   The op later disclosed that the issue was more about supervision than aptitude, but just in general I agree with you.  :)

[Mom22ns]

I'd use MUS for Geometry. It is fast and easy, but you can give her the credit for it. It will cover what she needs for ACT/SAT. Ds did it in a semester working about 90 min/day. After that, switch to TT for Algebra 2 and Pre-Calc. She'll have to put in some extra hours, but she can still get done before graduation.